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Not unfortunate at all because during the period which would've been covered by this past april's appreal, there was less activity due to the banks not lending and people waiting to see if things had hit bottom. This resulted in lower prices but few comps. For the period covered by this upcoming April's appeal, banks had started to lend and activity had picked up, at lower prices, so you should have no trouble finding comps.

The upcoming appeal deadline in April 2010 is the perfect time for an appeal for certain owners.

I for one certainly plan on appealing. I do want to add, after I made my statement before the city council, the tax assessor's office did a really good job of following up with me. I got a call the next day and they even sent me the appeals form which arrived a couple days ago. So kudos for the city in promptly following up. Thank you.

Unfortunately the window to appeal for this tax year has passed and the next window opens in February.

I read either here or on Wired JC that there is a website you can go to. www.easytaxfix.com

I tried it last night, and based on recent sales, when I appeal, my taxes should go down a whopping $836 or so bucks. That is real money.

Unfortunately the housing market has collapsed and I am upside down with my mortgage having lost anywhere from $80-$100K in property value.

So... I am looking to save money and overpaying on property taxes is not something I want to do and will be appealing as soon as I can.

I would strongly suggest to anyone who bought property that has declined to also appeal.

FG

reassessment post transaction is quite common, particularly when the new price is considerably higher then either the previous price or the prevailing price in the neighbourhood.

if you are considering the purchase of a manse (i.e, in excess of 1mil), you are likely to invite some reassessment, but it seems to be occurring even at prices below that threshold.

I'll say it again, to whomever will listen.

A well planned and executed mass tax appeal strategy that invites interested residents to have someone in the know look over their specific situation and determine whether they will likely see a reduction in their assessment and filing all appeals that are likely to be successful would choke this city.

What does this achieve? It reduces the city's revenue at a time when the city has few options, will serve as a reval for those property owners who win appeals, and will force the city to take drastic action to deal with the loss in revenue.

There is no better time to do this on a large scale than now. There is more than enough time to get this going since the tax appeal deadline for most is April.

For the skeptics: do a google search on property tax appeals in a bad housing market and see how many articles you find.

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One situation would be if the house has had substantial renovations and a CofO hasn't been issued for the renovations yet. Once the CofO is issued, the inspectors come out to reassess the property.

Thanks - so it's not like we'd buy the place and then the city is "flagged" to send someone to reassess? It would be a city-wide, dare-I-say-planned effort that everyone would go through?

State law requires properties be reassessed every ten years. Many muncipalities put off the assessments because it costs money and redistributes tax burdens. Often reassessments are forced due to a court action, like a lawsuit brought on by a resident. Jersey City is going on year 20 without a reassessment; every day the city is closer to a reassessment than the day before.

Forgive my naive, potential first-home buyer question:

We're looking at a single family home downtown. Currently, taxes are about $4200 (doable). Using the math of a previous post, this "should" be more like $7600 (not doable). Before we take the plunge, can someone explain how often or under what conditions a property gets re-assessed (eg, for the city to notice that it should be $7600 vs $4200) OR when this city-wide reval is supposed to take place? It will absolutely change whether or not we even bid on this place now.

Thanks!

Dan,

I don't think the "more of us have to play the game" is relevant here - I'd wager that people posting on, and reading vote in disproportionately higher numbers than the general public. Simply by coming to the site they've demonstrated some small level of awareness and interest in the community around them. (I assume you meant voting by "play[ing] the game" and not some sort of chicanery that would be associated with the administration's interpretation of the phrase.)

I assume you meant "systemic" and not "systematic" - perhaps our problems are systemic, but the mayor and many of his chosen council people have provided continuous examples of their unethical approach to their positions. I don't think trying to remove someone who demonstrates such little regard for their constituents and is incapable of representing us in a professional (or even, much of the time, tolerable) manner should be precluded by whatever systemic problems that exist and longer term solutions necessary to address them.


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I disagree Dan, taxes only affect the 1 to 4 family owners and their tenants, the rest of the city has some sort of tax protection. While homeowners are going up 11.25%, rent-contol tenants can only receive 4%. Senior citizens housing, affordable housing, and the waterfront development will not feel this increase, but everbody votes. I strongly believe in a city income-tax that is deducted from the state's income tax. Every citizen who votes should be responsible for the tax dollars in JC. Until they do, we will allow politicians with large purses to buy the election. I mean spend dollars entertaining citizens who are protected from taxes.

I believe our problems are systematic, not attributable to specific individual officeholders and it has been this way a long time (before you, I or Mayor Healy saw the light of day).

By soley blaming the mayor and current administration, you are all but guaranteeing the next administration will be even worse......

instead, I believe we need checks and balances; a counter balance to our one party system, enforced stronger ethical standards and the general public to participate in local politics/government.

pretty simple, if we want different results, lets change the equation, if we want to change the "game", more of us have to play the "game".

I would be happy to meet and talk further with anyone interested.

for those who have not already visited our campaign site which is / will continue to be updated, please see - http://onejerseycity.org. we are also on facebook - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37126317047

I am also a big fan of Citizen Campaigns' approach to government reform at the local level, see - http://jointhecampaign.com/

The Citizens' Campaign, launched in 2004, works to cultivate a culture of service and develop a new generation of citizen leaders - leaders who put service over personal gain.

I can be reached at danlevin@onejerseycity.org or daniel.levin@verizon.net. my phone number is in the book.

Dan


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Here: http://cityofjerseycity.com/uploadedF ... /aaaaagenda%20placeholder(25).pdf

Raising taxes during a deep recession is definitely not the way to go. How about cutting expenditures? Did the city council bother to look in detail at all at the city budget?

Where can one find a copy of the Jersey City budget?

What's with the call for a revolt, Dan? You said earlier that you want no part of a recall effort - to my way of thinking that is where a revolt would most likely lead. What then is the ceiling on your appetite for revolt?

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is an 11.25% tax increase, notably in challenging economic times acceptable? beyond JCLIST, will JC taxpayers "revolt"? will they write the local press, send letters to elected officials, speak at public meetings, rally?

when will there be political fall out in Jersey City for raising taxes (or anything else for that matter)?

we are saddled with 8 years of patronage hirings. in addition to eliminating cars for city council, eliminate cars for the board ("uncompensated") members of the semi-autonomous agencies (ie. JCIA, JCPA, JCMUA...), and top municipal employees, stop providing parking for employees who do not use their vehicles to conduct city business. now on to operational and compliance audits, energy efficiencey audits (do we turn off lights, do we print on both sides of the paper) ......, improve and ramp up grant writers..... evaluate and reprice user fees ....

we should ask each council member to proposed specific detailed cuts to the municipal and agency budgets. did any of the incumbants re-elected or those newly elected from Wards B and C have any proposals or platforms (or even ideas) for controling the municipal budget?

the last place I am interested in cutting is the moderately or low paid municipal employees who make the city run each day (which is likely the first place the pols threaten).


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I was told your property can be raised when I appealed my property years ago. However, I suggest you call the tax assessor in Jersey City and asked that question.

Question for Yvonne or anyone who might know....

Lets say a homeowner goes for an appeal...

Just to be clear, I know the process; I did this when I bought my place in '93. The assessment was too high based on the '88 reval and when compared to all the houses around me. I went through the process including recent comparable sales/assessments and successfully got the assessment lowered to the purchase price of the property.

So the question is this: if someone goes in for an appeal, can the tax assessor not only deny your appeal, but actually RAISE your assessment based on what they perceive to be the current market-value of your property?

In short, can an appeal actually back-fire on a homeowner resulting in a HIGHER assessment?

From WSJ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001 ... 04574290151758305342.html

Using the Rout in Housing to Lower Taxes

New Tools Help Owners Get Reduced Valuations; Saving Big in New Jersey

By M.P. MCQUEEN

Kim Davidson lives in Bonita, Calif., a San Diego suburb hit hard by tumbling property values. Earlier this year, she made the best of a bad situation and appealed her tax assessment. The county reduced her annual tax bill by more than $1,000 to $3,500.

?I did the whole thing online and walked [my application] down to the mailbox, and a month and a half later, I learned I saved all that money,? says Ms. Davidson, a 44-year-old account manager for a business consulting firm, who purchased the home last year. ?It was incredible.?

View Full Image

Kim Davidson
Kim Davidson?s correspondence with local tax officials. She cut more than $1,000 from her annual bill.
Tens of thousands of homeowners across the country are trying to wring something positive from an epic real-estate crash. In Cuyahoga County, Ohio, which includes Cleveland, hit hard by rising unemployment and foreclosures, nearly 23,000 property owners applied for property-tax reductions this year, up from an annual average of 1,700. Appeals in California?s Sacramento County soared to 12,000 in 2008 from a typical rate of 1,800 a year earlier.

The number of property owners seeking a tax reduction in Clark County, Nevada, which includes Las Vegas, soared to 6,000 this year from about 1,000 annually in recent years. About three-quarters of those who filed appeals succeeded in having their valuations lowered, most by 30% to 40%, county officials say. The county already had reduced valuations across the board for the vast majority of its residential property owners, says Michele Shafe, assistant director of the Clark County Assessor?s office. She said staffers had to work overtime and Saturdays to keep up with demand for reassessments.

Many of the Nevada appeals came from homeowners in recent developments. ?That is where people were paying $400,000 for homes that are now worth maybe $150,000,? Ms. Shafe says.

Many homes nationwide were last appraised prior to the housing crash and are valued for tax purposes at levels higher than today?s home prices. ?If you have a three-year period between assessments and the last one was in 2007, your assessment is still at the top of the market,? says Jacqueline Byers, director of research for the National Association of Counties in Washington, D.C.

Homeowners who want to appeal their assessment in many cases can handle the process themselves, although it?s important to be prepared before going in front of an appeals board, tax experts say. People who want help can hire a property-tax consultant or attorney, but should expect to pay a fee, often 25% to 50% of the amount saved in the first year. And enlisting the service of a real-estate appraiser can cost up to several hundred dollars.

There are also a growing number of local and national online services that use automated property-valuation models to help consumers determine whether they may be able to reduce their property taxes. Initial evaluations are often free at these sites, which include EasyTaxFix.com and LowerMyAssessment.com. For a fee of $50 to $100, users can obtain forms with data already filled in and instructions on how to appeal, and a list of recent sales of comparable properties. Ms. Davidson of Bonita used EasyTaxFix.com to help with her appeal.

Such online services may be able to give you a convenient ballpark estimate of whether your home is overassessed. Tax officials say these sites? results can be supplemented with information from other sources, such as local real-estate agents. Government tax officials also warn that scam artists have been trolling developments in California and elsewhere touting phony property-tax reduction services in direct mailings.

Bringing Home the Bacon

More consumers are appealing their property taxes as home values fall. Here are some tips:

Move fast. You have a limited time to appeal after getting your tax notice.
Check first for errors in property records.
Deliver solid evidence in making your case, including comparable property values.
Nick Osnato, a real-estate appraiser in Egg Harbor Township, N.J., says he conducted his own appeal in March and succeeded in getting his tax assessment lowered by $30,000, saving him about $150 a month in property taxes.

?I looked for sales of homes that were the same size as mine, with the same lot, but that had a lower assessment. That?s it,? he says. Mr. Osnato estimates home values in New Jersey are down between 10% and 20% from a year ago, depending on the area.

Winning an appeal mainly requires producing enough evidence to convince the tax assessor or an appeals board that your property assessment is based on inaccurate or outdated information, or is unfairly high compared to similar properties. In some areas, homeowners have as little as two weeks to file a notice of appeal after receiving their tax bill, but 30 to 60 days is more common. That means homeowners have to be ready to scramble when the tax bill comes.

Check on whether you qualify for special property-tax reduction programs such as special exemptions for people age 65 and over. Then, examine property records for inaccuracies, especially square footage. The assessor keeps on file a property record-card that contains your lot number, zoning category, address, sales records, land value and dimensions, as well as significant features as recorded by the town appraiser. Check it closely for errors, including inaccurate descriptions of the property (say, a three-car garage instead of two). Also check whether significant defects like a leaky basement, which could lower the value of the property, are on record. Nowadays, many municipalities put this information online.

While you are at it, check the assessor?s math, particularly with respect to assessment formulas. Some areas use full-market value, replacement value or sales price. Others use a fraction of the market value.

Next, locate three to five comparable properties and check your property against them, making adjustments for differences. Sales data are available from your local government, or a licensed real-estate agent.

?Look for disparities that cannot be explained away, like the age of other properties or better lot configuration, or view. If those things can?t explain why the assessment is so much higher than others, you may have grounds to appeal on equitability,? says Pete Sepp, spokesman for the National Taxpayers Union, an advocacy group.

If you think your property value is unfairly high, your next step is to contact your local assessor. If the property information on record is inaccurate, the assessor may be able to lower your assessment without a formal appeal. But if an appeal before an appeals or equalization board is necessary, you will have to produce evidence to support your complaint. Bring an appraiser?s report, if you have one, and records of comparable sales along with any other supporting documentation, such as photos, a surveyor?s report and contractors? estimates. If your appeal is turned down, additional appeals usually are heard by a state court.

For more information about how to file an appeal, a brochure is available for $6.95 from the National Taxpayers Union at www.ntu.org.

Experts say there are few drawbacks to applying to reduce your tax assessment. However, if you made additions and improvements to your home that were never properly recorded with your town?usually through a building permit?you might not receive a reduction, and could conceivably face an increased assessment.

Robert Chambers, administrator of the Cuyahoga County Board of Revision, which handles appeals in the Cleveland area, says the most common mistake homeowners make is failing to bring enough evidence about the house.

?Most of the time if a person is denied, it is because of lack of evidence,? Mr. Chambers says. ?They say here is a similar bungalow or ranch, but they don?t adjust for age, square footage, etcetera, which is everything that a certified appraiser must do,? he says.

He suggests refraining from using a hearing as a forum to vent your rage at high taxes. ?You are filing a legal affidavit that says the auditor?s value is wrong and I have evidence to show you that,? he says.

Write to M.P. McQueen at MP.McQueen@wsj.com

My assessment is just under 200K and my taxes are just under 12K.

I get so frustrated with people complaining about property tax abatements. Since 90% of the homes in Jc have an assessed value well below their actual value why should new constructuion be taxed on their full value?

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To claim that Healy winning is the fault of residents living in abatement buildings is a bit disingenuous considering the reality is downtown is the ONLY ward with an independent candidate winning in a LANDSLIDE. The poll numbers show Healy enjoyed widespread support throughout all wards of Jersey City, and Ward E was definitely not the ward where he enjoyed the most support as percentage.

Healy trounced the opposition throughout all wards and I doubt there could have been 26,000 additional tax abated residents we could have found to show up for DanL to defeat Healy. You are obviously entitled to your feelings but the facts don't really back them up.

Plus, it's been discussed over and over on this forum that pilot(abatement) taxes, while they sound like they are a sweet deal, are not really lower than regular taxes because simmilared valued properties on regular tax are assessed at 1/3 of market value so the ratio times the tax rate is in the same ballpark. And abatements they are not tax-deductible nor can you renegotiate should property value fall as in FGJCNJ1970's article.

Not sure about you, but I certainly cannot sensibly afford nor think it is a great steal to pay 12,000 a year in tax before maintenance for your average 2 bedroom. How much more should the taxes be for a new 2 bedroom? 24,000? 36,000?

I think we have similar end-goals but the reality is Healy is supported everywhere for whatever reason - most likely apathy.

Yvonne, I like your idea in theory and it's worth some debate. Unfortunatelly, I think in practice this probably will not lead to more efficient government or lower total taxes, deduction or not.

Saw this today on MarketWatch online and thought I would post here.

Time to file those tax appeals.

Funny thing is, while other communities hold the line on taxes, Jersey City keeps raising them and spending like there is no tomorrow. Not cutting a thing - like bloated salaries.

FG
--------------

A fresh assessment
Winning a property-tax reduction on your home
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By Amy Hoak, MarketWatch

CHICAGO (MarketWatch) -- Communities are feeling the sting of tumbling property values as more taxpayers appeal their assessments -- and successfully lower their tax liabilities.

Take the Las Vegas area, an area hard hit by price declines. More than 6,000 taxpayers -- including both residential and commercial property owners -- filed appeals in Clark County, Nev., after receiving a notice of value card in December, up from nearly 1,400 appeals received the year before, said Michele Shafe, assistant director for assessment services in Clark County. Of the 6,000 who filed appeals this time around, more than 4,500 received reductions to their assessed value, she said.
Good time to buy rentals

Property prices are down and rental demand is up, says Wally Charnoff, CEO of InvestorLoft.com, which helps buyers determine what they can afford. He talks with MarketWatch's Jonathan Burton about why this is a good time to buy income property, and what to watch out for if you hold real estate in an individual retirement account.

"That's about a 76% success rate for all the appeals that were filed," she said. Many of the reductions hovered around a 30% to 40% range, she said.

That represents a substantial hit for local taxing bodies that have already suffered due to a sharp decrease in sales tax revenue as consumers scale back their spending. One way government is making up for it: County departments will be required to cut 5% out of their budgets as fewer funds make their way into government coffers, she said.

And what is happening in Vegas isn't staying in Vegas: Many local governments around the country are experiencing similar revenue declines -- especially those hardest hit by the housing downturn.

"The property tax is the main source of revenue in a lot of these places," said Chris Hoene, director of policy and research for the National League of Cities. "So any hit to the property tax means that there will be some cuts in services somewhere."

Communities are making cuts to libraries, parks and special events, he said. Many also are instituting hiring freezes in response to lower revenues. And Hoene said that this is only the first or second year of a three- to four-year cycle of declining revenues for local governments.

In general, many communities aren't raising taxes to combat the shortfalls at least in part due to the political fallout that would come with it, Hoene said.

"The majority are not raising taxes, simply because it's a difficult time to do so," he said. Instead, he's seeing a bigger use of fees, which are "much smaller and more incremental... and much more politically palatable to the public."
Why now?

While some areas reassess property values annually, others do only a portion of homes each year, said Jacqueline Byers, director of research for the National Association of Counties. So some homeowners may still have assessed values that reflect, say, 2007 values -- and the discrepancy is evident in rapidly declining markets.

"They're watching the value of their property go down, and their assessment is on a two- or three-year-old value. That's why they're appealing," Byers said. "People are waking up to it and trying to save money."

California's system is somewhat unlike the rest of the country; reappraisals for property tax purposes typically occur when properties change owners or when substantial improvements have been made. But in Los Angeles County, the assessor's office has done a proactive review of assessed values, based on market trends in the area -- a process that also cuts down on the number of appeals, said assessor Rick Auerbach.

The review of 473,000 homes -- bought between July 1, 2003 and June 30, 2008 -- resulted in lower assessments on 334,000 single-family residences and condo units, according to a release from last week. The new assessed values reflected an average $1,400 property tax savings for single-family homes and an average $1,100 savings for condo units, the release said. Yet Auerbach acknowledged that other areas in the state have seen even more of an impact.

"Home values have declined and foreclosures are up," he said in the release, "but not to the same extent as in some neighboring counties." And, he indicated, the relief is temporary: "My staff is ready to act quickly and efficiently in reflecting the inevitable turnaround as it did in processing reduced home values," he said.
What to do

Think your assessed value needs adjusting? Areas have different protocols and timelines for appealing an assessment. Below are some tips:

*

Start with the county assessor's office. In some places, you may be able to appeal online, others might require a trip to the assessor's office; some might require an inspection of the property, others might rely on computer models, Hoene said. The process could be relatively quick if it's obvious that a change needs to be made, Auerbach said.
*

Know what homes in the neighborhood have sold for. Prices of comparable homes that have sold in the past six months up to a year will be most helpful to build your case, Byers said. Information can be tracked down online, or get assistance from a local real estate agent, Auerbach said.
*

Remember, assessed value is often not equal to market value. Many times, an assessment is only a percentage of what the home could actually be sold for, so appealing might not be as financially advantageous as you might think, Hoene said. "Find out what it's going to take (to appeal) and what is involved, and judge that against the potential payoff," he added.

Amy Hoak is a MarketWatch reporter based in Chicago.

The 1988 Reval toss out Mayor Cucci and most of his ticket. Yet upon reflection, I must admit Mayor Cucci was a better mayor than McCann and Schundler. Non-bidding contracts and pay to play, and abatements happened under McCann and Schundler.
Yvonne

Voter apathy is not a problem. Voter apathy is THE problem. If you add in a reasonable number - say, 25,000 - adult citizens who were not registered voters at the time of the election, you get to somewhere around 140,000 people who could have voted for the mayor in May. A little over 16,000 voted for Healy, meaning that we have a mayor that about 88% of the people who could vote didn't vote for. If you went around any part of the city and generically described policies and behaviors of the mayor and his administration (including his gang of 8 council people), I'm sure the overwhelming majority would not support his policies and behaviors, on an unnamed basis.

We, the 6,000 people of JC List - a mere 5% of the city's registered voters, can sit here and scream and yell every time something like Crystal Point, Nidia Lopez, unsubstantiated tax increases, school administration patronage, indifferent policing, Steve "the urinator" Lipski, the mayor's drunken stupors, DWIs, drug-dealing councilwoman's son, etc. happens. And then what? The abatements will still get sweetened. Taxes will go up. The Floridian will represent Ward C and the rest of us will still get pissed on.

Until people actually reach this point, nothing is going to change

If you add the tax abated waterfront along with senior housing, public housing, affordable housing, and even rent-controlled buildings-a lot of people are not affected by the tax rate. That is why I am in favor of a city income tax that is deducted from a state income tax. More people must be affected by poor government in order to make change.

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Actually, icechute pretty much hit the nail on the head. While this is purely anecdotal and not scientific, I can tell you that at the last election, I and like-minded friends who live in single-family homes or small, non-abated buildings all made it a point to vote. We all voted for Fulop and mostly for Levin (none for Healy). Those I know who lived in the generously tax-abated big developments couldn't have cared less and didn't bother to vote. After all, why rock the boat when the system works so well for you? They weren't thrilled with the Healy administration, but they're at least getting a huge discount on their taxes for the next 30 years. That explains the dichotomy - enough of us pissed off downtown residents turned out to re-elect Fulop but our numbers weren't significant enough citywide to unseat Healy.

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Voter apathy is certainly a problem. Your conviction is likely misplaced since last I checked, downtown is the only place that has a non-Healy machine councilman who won in deciding fashion.

It is mindnumbing. People want transparency. I say it couldn't be more transparent!

The funny thing is the old timers talk about the Hague days and how great it was. They say, yes it was corrupt, it was very corrupt, but we were taken care of.

This is a City where the people do not feel like they are taken care of and they certainly do not feel like they are heard.

What is the hardest for me to understand is that many of these people are wonderful resources willing to give time and effort into making the City a better place to live as well as saving people money, but it is all about a power struggle.

I digress... go, go, talk about revals!

So the State, not the municipality, dictates how the reval on commercial properties will be handled? Or the State dictates both and the municipality has control over neither?

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Althea,

Frustration: yes.
Directed at you: no.

I am assuming that this is frustration and not directed at me. I am only discussing reval.. not this broken City.

But if this is directed at me like I approve how this city spends our money then you clearly have no idea what I am about.

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Except for the summers, the council meetings are in the evenings. But I have also attended state, freeholders, and board of ed meetings. Many of these are in the evenings. You can be involved or just "shoot your mouth off." I choose to be involved.
Yvonne