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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
 
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@AnthonyCumia
6 people shot in Brooklyn, ny? Impossible. Guns are illegal in NYC. There are laws against carrying guns. I don't get it Mr. Mayor.
Posted on: 2012/8/2 1:56
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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guys we gotta scrap this whole "law" thing and try out a new civilization
Posted on: 2012/8/2 1:55
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Posted on: 2012/8/2 1:54
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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There are over 4,000,000 NRA members. Just for a comparative, there are about 2,500,000 members of all combined branches of the US military including the Coast Guard and Reserves. I don't think they're having any trouble.
Posted on: 2012/8/2 1:29
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Any NRA representatives lurking about?
Let me say this to any NRA member- I think its good people have handguns so they can shoot people like you. Heh. If the NRA and its members weren't so damn cocky all the time, railing nonstop about their constitutional rights and didn't want to push for legalizing certain guns that look like something the Viet Cong would use (very different from the wooden rifles used for hunting), I might be more open minded about this subject. The NRA is just hurting their own cause with their arrogant attitude.
Posted on: 2012/8/2 1:20
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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It's sad that this argument will never be settled by reasonable people. But as long as there are right wing troglodytes in Congress willing to obstruct any gun control laws this insanity will continue.
Over 200 million guns in this country !! And the conservative knuckle-draggers continue to drone on about their 2nd amendment rights. The rest of the civilized world laughs at us.
Posted on: 2012/8/2 0:55
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Quote:
How do criminals care about gun laws?
Posted on: 2012/8/2 0:18
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Newbie
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It seems that what most people who want more gun laws are really hoping for is for guns to somehow not exist anymore. To them, it's as if these gun laws will somehow magically get rid of all the guns in existence, and to an extent, it will... but only for law abiding citizens. Every time someone gets shot there is a knee-jerk reaction for more gun laws by people who ignore the fact that the vast majority of gun violence in this country is carried out using weapons obtained illegally anyway. Most criminals do not get a license, walk into a Walmart and buy a gun, register that gun, and then murder people with that gun. The shooter in Colorado was an exception to this, and clearly nuts. While laws making guns illegal for everyone might have prevented him from obtaining guns legally, it would not have prevented him from getting guns some other way, and it definitely would not have prevented him from going on a killing spree using a different weapon, like a knife. Ownership of a gun does not make someone more likely to commit an act of violence any more than owning a fancy steak knife set makes me more likely to stab my obnoxiously loud neighbors.
In an ideal world, guns would not exist. I'm totally for this. But as long as they do, people NEED to understand their right to own a gun is a GOOD thing. It's the reason the 2nd amendment was created to begin with, by people who escaped tyrannical governments. An army with guns against an unarmed populace can do whatever it wants, and this is how many fascist governments were born. Not to mention that the reason criminals are so brazen when it comes to committing crimes is that they don't think the guy on the other end is going to shoot them back.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 20:40
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Just can't stay away
 
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I am pretty sure this is what our forefathers really meant...
Posted on: 2012/8/1 20:29
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Every second grade civics student thinks they are some goddamn constitutional scholar. Arguing over the the text of the 2nd amendment is irrelevant unless you are one of nine people in the United States. And if you are one of those nine people and you are posting on JCList, this country has bigger problems than gun limits or more guns can solve.
Time and time again, the Supreme court has issued one ruling only to issue another contradictory ruling a decade or many decades later. Conservatives are hoping Roe v. Wade is reversed one day, which, should it happen, would ultimately lead to two contradictory interpretations of the Constitution. Plessy v. Ferguson upheld segregationist laws and a half century later Brown v. the Board of Education reversed the ruling; the Constitution is flexible. What truly matters is public policy. There is simply no statistical data supporting "gun rights." Gun limits save lives. Fewer people are killed when there are fewer guns. Fewer law enforcement agents are killed when there are limits on automatic weapons and deadly ammunition. That's what the data supports. The real tragedy of events that happened in Colorado is that it already happened once before and the people of that state still didn't bother doing anything about guns. Or the real tragedy is that all the people with guns on the brain didn't show up in one place and shoot each other. Or the real tragedy is that a handful of people who live their lives in civilized places with stricter gun laws happened to be in some flyover hell hole when the guns came out. Or the real tragedy is that this happens a third time before the nation's legislatures do anything about guns. But the one thing that won't be tragic is if there is some meaningful gun legislation that comes from these events.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 20:18
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Just can't stay away
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2011/5/25 20:27 Last Login : 2021/1/14 12:53 From Hamilton Park
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But it doesn't so get over it. They are here to stay and you will never ever get rid of them. There are more then 300 million of them and no one will ever give them up. Its just not going to happen.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 20:17
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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The right to bear arms should only apply to the weapons that was used in the Revolutionary War because that was its intent, not automatic weapons that can kill hundreds in the matter of seconds. Arms today could also mean the right to bear nuclear material.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 20:03
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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I just want the right to carry surface to air missile launchers and flamethrowers.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 19:50
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Just can't stay away
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Oh you don't like the idea that I choose on my own to stay in my house to protect my property.
Ok...LA riots...These acts of civil unrest can happen and if they do I don't want to rely on a single action pee shooter.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 19:40
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Let me understand your scenario: - We get an event in JC like New Orleans. - JC is issued a mandatory evacuation order, which you choose to ignore. - You stay behind with your family, AK47 and 6k rounds of ammo. - You shoot any looter, and anyone that is a perceived threat to your family and property. I got that right? And you think the law and constitution will protect you?
Posted on: 2012/8/1 19:23
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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So WTF in your view is the meaning of the sentence fragment "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" ? It seems that it has been virtually crossed out as meaningless by gun advocates. It certainly doesn't mean the right to bear arms is there explicitly for purposes of civil insurrection. And the argument about the failure of Chicago's local gun control only point out the futility of local gun control when the rest of the country is a gun flea market.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 19:16
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Just can't stay away
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You are not familiar with the recent supreme court ruling. Its not a militia per say but an individual right. And the issue with a semi automatic also came into play which is constitutional.
And yes if someone broke into my house and I felt my life or my family was in danger I would shoot them.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 18:45
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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The second amendment is about a well-regulated militia, not some guy with a semi-automatic.
Seriously, though, if someone was looting your property, you'd take out an AK-47 and shoot them? That's not realistic. That's murder. And do you really equate the value of your property with the value of human life?
Posted on: 2012/8/1 18:10
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Quote:
+1
Posted on: 2012/8/1 15:46
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Just can't stay away
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The 2nd amendment is not about deer hunting. So get that out of your head.
When the levies broke in New Orleans and the cops ran away and the looters and criminals took to the streets. If you decided to stay and protect your property. I can guarantee that you wish you had that AK-47 with a 30 round mag (sorry multiple) and 6000 rounds. It could happen here as any place else.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 15:26
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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I thought Michael Moore's piece in the JJ from a couple of days ago was better reasoned:
http://www.nj.com/hudson/voices/index ... ore_its_the_guns_but.html The one big piece missing I thought, was where are the financial incentives to solve the problem? The gun and ammo makers obviously benefit from lax gun controls. But do the people who manage the budgets for law enforcement, prisons, mental health, etc benefit from tighter gun control? The general public and first responders will continue to be cannon-fodder until there is enough financial incentive (and lobbying) to tackle the problem.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 15:21
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Posted on: 2012/8/1 15:20
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Here is my official position. I hate guns, and I hate everyone who owns it.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 15:14
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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A real problem is the NRA's zero-tolerance stance towards gun controls. Controls were largely weakened in the 80's, ironically under Ronald Reagan, who must not have minded getting shot and seeing James Brady wind up in a wheelchair a few years earlier. This has led to the ease with which people can acquire guns and ammo today.
I used to be a trap boy (PULL!) at a shooting range and have fired handguns in a target range. It is not my thing, but I get that it is a hobby for people. The NRA looks at assault rifle and ammo purchase restrictions as a chipping away at the right to hunt deer and go skeet shooting. This is not rational. Assault rifles and handguns are more of an urban problem, so they don't care as much because they are safe in the woods of Kentucky.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 15:06
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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I won't speak for Frank_M, but I will address your questions: "So in your opinion if every state were to allow concealed carry and allow law abiding citizens to own guns gun crime would go up?" Yes. "criminals do not care about gun laws." Yes, they do. Not as much as they should, but they do. "someone will be making his own rounds in his basement the next day and selling them in the streets in no time." This is preferable to being able to purchase 6,000 rounds of ammo online and then going to the movies.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 15:00
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2012/8/1 14:44
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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That opinion piece is complete garbage, and it?s ironic that the author claims ?activists? have ?incredibly naive assumptions about human behavior,? to make her point. Ms. Brown, like many self-centered, unworldly Americans, seems not to comprehend that the very nature of our society, which in no small part includes a fetish for weaponry and competition, is itself a catalyst for violent thought and behavior. When we treat everything like a war, we should expect to find ourselves in the midst of one.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 14:28
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2012/8/1 13:49
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Newbie
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It's fine to say that gun control won't work but something needs to be done - it would have been much better if the author added suggestions on what can be done to address this rather than suggestions on what not to do.
Posted on: 2012/8/1 13:35
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2012/8/1 13:35
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