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Muni-wide WifI attracts wierd objections
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Municipal WiFi attracts weird, unfounded objections

See: Wifi Brain Damage?

Be sure to scroll down and read the comments. Don't order a tin hat until you know, "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"

Posted on: 2008/3/25 15:54
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Perth Amboy's bid to go wireless
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Perth Amboy's bid to go wireless a winning wager
Home News Tribune Online 03/22/08

Perth Amboy Mayor Joseph Vas announced an agreement this week that will convert the city into one of the nation's first digital wireless municipalities, a coup for this Colonial-age community celebrating its 325th year of existence.



Vas noted that no other New Jersey municipality he knows of has yet to take this step. Plenty are sure to follow, though, if the technology's advantages are as numerous as they appear. Perth Amboy stands to be a winner almost immediately in terms of simple convenience and cost.

Digital wireless microwave technology is what makes cell phones, pagers, wireless local area networks and global positioning satellites possible. Valued for its ability to transmit large volumes of information in a secure fashion with quality reception by stationary or remote receivers, digital wireless eliminates the need for land-line connections as a means of transmitting voice and digital data. Besides versatility and efficiency, costs compared to land lines are far lower as well.

The plan is to eventually construct a broad enough array of digital connections throughout Perth Amboy to create a wireless canopy over the entire city, enabling government and schools and residents to enjoy access to broadband services no matter where in Perth Amboy they might happen to be ? heady latest-technology stuff for a city whose roots go all the way to the nation's founding, a period when its Proprietary House served as home to the last royal governor of New Jersey, William Franklin, the son of Benjamin Franklin.

Ol' Ben, he of the lightning rod, inventor of bifocals, and creator of the odometer, would have brimmed with pride and no doubt amazement over these latest scientific advancements.

City Hall has enlisted the Breaker Group Inc., a digital wireless company based in Mount Holly, to perform the wireless integration in three stages. Initially, Perth Amboy will link its 18 municipal buildings and its public schools through wireless microwave, followed by an expansion to city businesses and redevelopment areas, capped at last by delivery of wireless connectivity to all of its residents.

The initial cost, including equipment, is an estimated $370,000, but Perth Amboy has been pledged $500,000 toward that bill by Morris Cos., the redeveloper of Amboy Corporate Center, offsetting any expense to taxpayers. Better yet, city government anticipates an approximate $10,000 monthly savings in communications infrastructure expenses once the network is up and running, a noteworthy financial bonus for taxpayers.

Perth Amboy is a city long in search of its economic footing, and major strides have been made in that direction in recent decades. This latest step toward the most modern of communication networks should greatly assist that push, not only by virtue of its promised savings to the city, but because of the distinct advantage it gives Perth Amboy in its quest to lure the next generation of cutting-edge industry.

More efficient operations and enhanced revenues: What more could Perth Amboy hope for?

http://www.thnt.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art ... /OPINION01/803220400/1079

Posted on: 2008/3/24 19:17
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Re: Ambitious plans for big Wi-Fi networks...are being abandoned or scaled back
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thanx to super_furry for the article.

fine article but the slant strikes me as a tad negative. for balance you may want to also check out:

http://www.onthemedia.org/topics/the_internet/1 (see "cutting the cord")
http://www.news.com/Citywide-Wi-Fi-is ... /2100-7351_3-6209837.html
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/news/2007/09/muni_wifi

some impressions and questions:

-- seems like the earlier implementors have inadvertently pointed out the pitfalls so those who follow can avoid them.

-- some of the early business models seem poor.

-- municipal networks may be more technically practical to implement in 2008 than they were in 2004.

-- wifi based applications may be more attractive in 2008 than in 2004.

-- municipal networks may not lend themselves to a "big project" approach. a piecemeal approach based on building small pieces of the network at a time, each as part of a specific application with specific benefits may work better. applications aimed at solving specific problems may be fundable with resources available for addressing those problems.

-- using the network to improve efficiency or effectiveness of existing municipal services might be a good place to start.

-- should a municipal network be free of charge to the public? or just freely available and cheap? (perhaps low cost metered service so you can use only what you can afford, a bit like pay as you go cell phone service?)

-- it may make more sense to find ways of leveraging existing infrastructure wherever possible than to emphasize building new infrastructure.

-- some general governance issues may need to be addressed before the public is likely to have confidence in a project like this.

Posted on: 2007/10/28 16:24
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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Did you just seriously quote a monument sign? Unfortunately I lack access to an academic database, and gleaning quotes off google news is not the same thing. But.. "In 1994, most people thought the Internet would be delivered into American homes via the TV. So the founding of Netscape in April that year and the Internet revolution it would help set off" http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/A ... ate:D&s_trackval=GooglePM "With the popularity of the Web rising, there are a lot of new and improved browsers out there. The November issue of NetGuide takes a look at some of the most popular ones, including one of the best known, Netscape Navigator" http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/A ... ate:D&s_trackval=GooglePM "Netscape is providing the business model for the new software industry. It won 70% of the browser market " http://www.businessweek.com/1995/49/b34532.htm "Netscape, on the other hand, is known by most people as the software used to navigate that part of the Internet called the World Wide We" cite: IBM LEARNS ITS SURE BET WITH LOTUS NOTES WASN'T SO SURE; Article is restricted, the quote appears here: http://news.google.com/archivesearch? ... &hl=en&um=1&sa=N&start=50

Posted on: 2007/9/25 22:23
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

sinik wrote:
Functionally Netscape added very little or nothing so I don't see how it changed peoples ideas except those of people who had no previous notion of what a browser was.


Yes, exactly. Those people were the overwhelming majority, thus the perception of Netscape as "the first browser", regardless of it's little known predecessor.


I bolded the word changed. you cant change an idea that didnt previously exist.

We cant let the majority decide history, can we? Is it that democratic?





"The world's first popular graphical browser"

The important word there is "popular"

Posted on: 2007/9/25 22:03

Edited by sinik on 2007/9/25 22:18:17
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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brewster wrote:
Netscape may have seemed a yawn to you, but people like you and I who ever used Mosaic are a very small minority. I'd bet most websurfers out there have never used anything but IE, never mind Netscape.

And I sat out the techstock boom, investing in real estate instead. I remember a broker friend at a Y2k new years party derisively knocking real estate's returns compared to tech stock. He lost everything but his condo. Buying rental RE in 1997 was the single best move of my life.


Hopefully, some people are getting exposure to Firefox, especially if they got burnt downloading the early versions of IE6 which was an attempt to catch up with Firefox and had to re-install the previous version and we cant forget about Safari for the Apple elite and people with iPhones. Firefox has about 15% market share, now.

Glad to hear you didnt lose your shirt on Netscape. I lost mine on RE twice in previous lives.

Posted on: 2007/9/25 21:53
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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sinik wrote:
Functionally Netscape added very little or nothing so I don't see how it changed peoples ideas except those of people who had no previous notion of what a browser was.


Yes, exactly. Those people were the overwhelming majority, thus the perception of Netscape as "the first browser", regardless of it's little known predecessor.

Posted on: 2007/9/25 21:45
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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You're confusing fact with theory.

This is a fact:
"Mosaic Communications Corporation on April 4, 1994 by Marc Andreessen and Jim Clark,"

This is a fact:
"Marc Andreessen and Eric Bina originally designed and programmed NCSA Mosaic for Unix's X Window System at NCSA. Development of Mosaic began in December 1992. Version 1.0 was released on April 22, 1993,"

This is a theory:
"Mosaic [is considered] to be the web browser which led to the internet boom of the 1990s.... the Mosaic software... made the web popularly relevant and touched off the revolution" ( p.xlii)."

A theory is "a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact."


We were talking about history, at least I think we were. History is made up of both fact and theory (or opinion). With time we gain a perspective of which events were more significant than others. I would ask you to read the quotes again (particularly the last one) to gain an idea of how important MOSAIC is according to internet historians.

Post me some counter-examples, if you like, of somebody other than yourself saying that Netscape changed people's perception of browsers (your words, and "theory", incidentally). In order to view the thing historically you have to start before there were any browsers and work forward. You cant just jump in at the birth of Netscape and IE. Functionally Netscape added very little or nothing so I don't see how it changed peoples ideas except those of people who had no previous notion of what a browser was.

Posted on: 2007/9/25 21:38
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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sinik wrote: Enough? So credit where credit is due. If we are going to do the whole history thing we should get it right.
You're confusing fact with theory. This is a fact: "Mosaic Communications Corporation on April 4, 1994 by Marc Andreessen and Jim Clark," This is a fact: "Marc Andreessen and Eric Bina originally designed and programmed NCSA Mosaic for Unix's X Window System at NCSA. Development of Mosaic began in December 1992. Version 1.0 was released on April 22, 1993," This is a theory: "Mosaic [is considered] to be the web browser which led to the internet boom of the 1990s.... the Mosaic software... made the web popularly relevant and touched off the revolution" ( p.xlii)." A theory is "a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact." http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theory Now I was positing a theory that web content and web access were both equally critical to the development of the modern internet, and that development of content without access, or access without content would have been irrelevant. Further, that was secondary to my argument that Municipal Wi-Fi will launch a new technological revolution with unforeseeable services and products. Specifically, without the wireless network, there will be no useful services, but without useful services, there will be no network, which is similar to the previous conundrum of the birth of the internet where there was limited access and hence limited content, while at the same time there was limited content because there was limited access. Quibbling over whether or not Mosaic was or was not the first instance of a modern web browser, or whether it was merely a precursor to Netscape, was much less important than the mass market adoption of Netscape and Explorer in 1994 and 1995 respectively. I had little intention of discussing decades' old technology other than to illustrate the conundrum of causation. A similar illustration would be the relationship of suburbs to freeways. Did the construction of the internstate freeway system cause the development of suburbs, or did the development of suburbs necessitate the need of the internetstate freeway?

Posted on: 2007/9/25 20:58
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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sinik wrote:
I remember using MOSAIC for the first time and the impression it made on me; I don't remember the first time I used Netscape. It was an annoyance to switch browsers because some pages could only be read by one or the other and Netscape required a license which was only available free on a temporary basis. Netscape never really won anything because it had to compete against MOSAIC which was free and then it had to compete against IE, which was... free. IE is now losing ground to Firefox because it is a better product... and free.



Netscape may have seemed a yawn to you, but people like you and I who ever used Mosaic are a very small minority. I'd bet most websurfers out there have never used anything but IE, never mind Netscape.

And I sat out the techstock boom, investing in real estate instead. I remember a broker friend at a Y2k new years party derisively knocking real estate's returns compared to tech stock. He lost everything but his condo. Buying rental RE in 1997 was the single best move of my life.

Posted on: 2007/9/25 20:44
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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Sinik, Sun and Netscape fought Microsoft on different fronts. That is to clarify things, if by chance you thought that the anti-trust trial in the 90's was brought by Sun, or that the decision to not split Microsoft in two made Sun happy. The litigation with Netscape ended a billion years ago, with the demise of Netscape per se, at the when Netscape decided to rewrite entirely the browser and failed miserably. The litigation with Sun ended only less than two years ago.
Also, on a technical note: the extensions that Microsoft wrote for Java were not usable on the internet. First of all, think how many web pages ever required Java applets, then think even deeper, how many of those refused to work on anything but a Microsoft system or browser. (I know I ran into some Microsoft Java-specific stuff, but it was either desktop apps, like Matlab 5, or intranet-only pages, like those served in hospitals by IDX) The stuff that Microsoft did as extension for Java was not for the Internet it involved things like writing to the registry, which was never ever allowed for applets. Also, in truth, the MS Java extensions were not illegal or whatever:
1. Apple, when moving from OS 9 to OS X, created a set of functions that would work on both, allowing programmers to build software for both old and new computers; that set of functions (Carbon) were made, on purpose, callable from a Java program; but those programs cannot run on a PC
2. even today you can find, on Sun's website, Java extensions for DirectX, which is a Microsoft-only technology
3. also, Java has, since the beginning, well documented ways of interacting with system-specific (that is, e.g. Windows-specific) functions; Java Native Interface is provided by Sun exactly for the purpose of making Apple OS- or Windows-specific functions work in Java.

Posted on: 2007/9/25 20:32
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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brewster wrote:

Unfortunately Sinik, history is littered with innovators that are forgotten and die penniless in the shadow of the paradigm shifters, who are thieves and copycats more often than not. Tesla vs. Edison, Philo Farnsworth vs RCA (TV), Xerox PARC vs Apple (graphical interface).

At least in this case the players were the same and got rich, until MS wanted their lunch. (Now THERE'S a company that never innovated anything but is credited with changing the world) But if the point is public perceptions rather than actual 1st innovation, I'd say Netscape wins. I remember just before the IPO getting a call from my millionaire investment banker brother asking me what a "browser" was! To me it was like then Bush 41 being astonished by a supermarket bar code scanner.


Read the quotes (again). Find me something similar that was said about Netscape at the time, or now with hindsight.

Yes, I remember the ridiculous p/e ratios for the Netscape stock and eventually it came crashing down after Andreessen had made his billions (I hope you cashed out in time, Brewster. I am sure you wouldn't be singing Netscape's praises if you didn't). MS ate Netscape's lunch but is paying for it even now (see the very recent decision
by the EU's highest court against MS).

ianmac47's claim was that Netscape "changed modern perceptions of what an internet browser was" ( which I challenge and have provided counter arguments to ) not which browser won out (we all know that was IE). IE won not only because it was free but because MS created extensions to java which was supposed to be a free standard owned by SUN and then persuaded people to write web pages using applets written with these extensions so that only the IE browser could read them).

I remember using MOSAIC for the first time and the impression it made on me; I don't remember the first time I used Netscape. It was an annoyance to switch browsers because some pages could only be read by one or the other and Netscape required a license which was only available free on a temporary basis. Netscape never really won anything because it had to compete against MOSAIC which was free and then it had to compete against IE, which was... free. IE is now losing ground to Firefox because it is a better product... and free.

The bar code thing with Bush the Elder was a PR disaster for him. However, Bush was not at a supermarket he was at a convention for the National Grocers association and was testing the latest innovation in scanners at the time when he was caught on film. The scanner that he was testing was able to reassemble mangled codes and come up with the right price. So we saw him looking amazed by what we were led to believe was just an ordinary scanner. Details are not important to some people but it makes all the difference if you want to get your historical facts right.

Posted on: 2007/9/25 19:48
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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sinik wrote:
Sure, there were text browsers but Mosaic was the first browser to show images embedded in text as opposed to separate windows. It was Mosaic that showed people the possibilities. It was also the first browser ported from Unix. When Netscape came out it didnt really add anything. It was Mosaic that was the innovation. I am afraid it was not Netscape that changed the perceptions of what a browser was.


Unfortunately Sinik, history is littered with innovators that are forgotten and die penniless in the shadow of the paradigm shifters, who are thieves and copycats more often than not. Tesla vs. Edison, Philo Farnsworth vs RCA (TV), Xerox PARC vs Apple (graphical interface).

At least in this case the players were the same and got rich, until MS wanted their lunch. (Now THERE'S a company that never innovated anything but is credited with changing the world) But if the point is public perceptions rather than actual 1st innovation, I'd say Netscape wins. I remember just before the IPO getting a call from my millionaire investment banker brother asking me what a "browser" was! To me it was like Bush 41 being astonished by a supermarket bar code scanner.

Posted on: 2007/9/25 18:43
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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ianmac47 wrote:

There were "browsers" before Marc Andreessen and Eric Bina, and they wrote Mosaic before they wrote Netscape Mosaic, but it was Netscape and later IE that changed modern perceptions of what an internet browser was.


Sure, there were text browsers but Mosaic was the first browser to show images embedded in text as opposed to separate windows. It was Mosaic that showed people the possibilities. It was also the first browser ported from Unix. When Netscape came out it didnt really add anything. It was Mosaic that was the innovation. I am afraid it was not Netscape that changed the perceptions of what a browser was.

From Wiki:
Quote:

Scholars consider Mosaic to be the web browser which led to the internet boom of the 1990s. Robert Reid underscores this importance stating, "while still an undergraduate, Marc wrote the Mosaic software...that made the web popularly relevant and touched off the revolution"

Quote:

Mosaic was the first browser written and supported by a team of full-time programmers, which was reliable and easy enough for novices to install, and the inline graphics proved immensely appealing. Mosaic made the Web accessible to the ordinary person for the first time.


Quote:

Reid also refers to Matthew Gray's well-respected website, Internet Statistics: Growth and Usage of the Web and the Internet, which indicates a dramatic leap in web use around the time of Mosaic's introduction (p.xxv).

In addition, David Hudson concurs with Reid, noting that:

Marc Andreessen's realization of Mosaic, based on the work of Berners-Lee and the hypertext theorists before him, is generally recognized as the beginning of the web as it is now known. Mosaic, the first web browser to win over the Net masses, was released in 1993 and made freely accessible to the public. The adjective phenomenal, so often overused in this industry, is genuinely applicable to the...'explosion' in the growth of the web after Mosaic appeared on the scene. Starting with next to nothing, the rates of the web growth (quoted in the press) hovering around tens of thousands of percent over ridiculously short periods of time were no real surprise (p.42).



Enough? So credit where credit is due. If we are going to do the whole history thing we should get it right.

Posted on: 2007/9/25 15:06
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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Netscape Mosaic had to be renamed Netscape Navigator. NCSA Mosaic and Netscape Mosaic were different animals. It is true that Netscape was the first attempt to commercialize the Web, however it was a step backwards as NCSA was always free and Netscape navigator had to be repeatedly downloaded every few months as the free temporary license expired. And we were talking about all this in the context of making Wi-Fi free for all weren't we?

There is no question that NCSA Mosaic predated Netscape Mosaic. There is also no question that NCSA Mosaic and Netscape Mosaic were different browsers even though some of the people that developed Mosaic Netscape had worked on NCSA Mosaic previously. NCSA Mosaic was the revolution


There were "browsers" before Marc Andreessen and Eric Bina, and they wrote Mosaic before they wrote Netscape Mosaic, but it was Netscape and later IE that changed modern perceptions of what an internet browser was.

Likewise, there were cars built before Henry Ford, and Henry Ford built cars before the Model T. But it was the Model T that changed modern culture, not the 1903 Model A, or the 1904 Model B.

The changes in technology between 1994 and 1995 was a chicken and egg paradox. Before then, there was little reason to go online because there was little content. Or there was little content because few people went online. After then, there was lots of content so people went online, and lots of people went online so there was lots of content.

Web browsers made it easy to view content. Flat rate internet access made it easy to get online. But it was the creation of Yahoo and Amazon and eBay and NYTimes.com and hotmail that generated the content that created demand for people to go online. OR was it the other way around?

Yahoo made it easy to find content, Amazon and eBay and the NYTimes online had content people wanted. So consumers downloaded web browsers and signed up for flat rate internet plans because metering internet usage was incompatible with browsing the front page of the times.

In 1990, few people used the modern internet. By 2000, half of adults were online.

I cited this example as a reason to build Muni-Wifi because for the same reasons its hard to see why we should build free wireless internet access is the same reasons it was hard to see why anyone in 1990 would want the internet except of course for downloading Prodigy reports for elementary school. The issue is a chicken and the egg paradox. There are crap products and services that use free wifi because free wifi access is crap. OR Free wifi access is crap because the services and products that would use free wifi are crap.

Posted on: 2007/9/25 13:59
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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I thought it is quite difficult to spoof the Caller ID.
(Btw, why is comcast advertising their phone service as having CID? I never had a phone without CID, only my parents and grandparents used to have one.)

Posted on: 2007/9/25 13:40
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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JSQ wrote:
it is unsafe to discuss billing matters over email: all of a sudden customers will reply with their credit card numbers, and email is too unsafe to carry that


Yeah, like the phone is a secure medium. It doesn't take much to phone phish someone by spoofing comcast, it's happened to me by someone pretending to be my bank. When I've gotten a call from comcast, I've hung up and called them back.

Posted on: 2007/9/25 13:27
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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it is unsafe to discuss billing matters over email: all of a sudden customers will reply with their credit card numbers, and email is too unsafe to carry that
comcast had automatic payments for a few years, they were just too cheap to accept credit card and were forcing customers into bank transfer (it's a matter of 5% over 5 cents fee to the banks and networks)... maybe they stroke a deal, i saw that recently credit cards were accepted too
i thought the two monsters are created by the laws which allowed selling entire cities and counties to single phone or TV cable provider... before they went into each other's field, things were far worse and nobody changed anything for real (the breaking up of AT&T did nothing to last-mile competition in JC and in most of the US)... so the monsters go back to the founding fathers or close.. i don't expect anything so powerful, to move them

Posted on: 2007/9/25 4:17
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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Just the way the 20th century was driven by electricity, the 21st is driven by data. The nation would never been fully electrified by corporations without the federal rural electrification program, it simply wasn't cost effective to the utility, though invaluable to the nation. Just the same is true of a nationwide wireless network, or even affordable landline broadband. The "socialist" Europeans kick our butts in broadband penetration because our telecoms are basically engaged in a price point redlining of their inferior product that they flog to us, spending billions on ads and competing on anything but price and speed.

The network is simply too valuable to leave to a cartel of monsters like Comcast and Verizon. Comcast is so backwards that if there's a payment problem they are incapable of customer service by email. They will have a live call made, and if that fails, send a disconnect crew, before sending an email. Until recently you couldn't just go to their website and set up an autopay like every net vendor since the WWW began. And you wonder where the money goes. This company act like its selling gas in pipes not packets over fiber.

I want SOMEONE to eat their lunch!

Oh yeah, when I switched browsers from Lynx to the brand new Mosaic, "Netscape" was a word yet to make it's appearance.

Posted on: 2007/9/25 2:57
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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2ndhome wrote:

Could care less about anybody knowing I look at porn (or not). Why does every conversation about right to privacy end up with a porn embarrasment discussion.

Govt run internet service is not a good idea. The reasons for this might not be obvious so your reach for the old "porno freak" argument. Try to stretch your brain a bit.

Also, can we see a pictue of earth during 100% daylight please?


Yes, but the Government can get the information from the ISPs and Google if they want to, so we already have that situation.

earth satellite image

Posted on: 2007/9/25 2:32
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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well if you are looking at porn, I can understand your concern.

You were joking about the time when it is dark everywhere, right?
Not only that but when is it dark at both poles? I'm scratching my head over this one.


Could care less about anybody knowing I look at porn (or not). Why does every conversation about right to privacy end up with a porn embarrasment discussion.

Govt run internet service is not a good idea. The reasons for this might not be obvious so your reach for the old "porno freak" argument. Try to stretch your brain a bit.

Also, can we see a pictue of earth during 100% daylight please?

Posted on: 2007/9/25 2:09
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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ianmac47 wrote: Quote:
sinik wrote: BTW browsers started with NCSA Mosaic not Netscape which was written by the same people. You are always a touch behind with your history.
From Wikipedia: The company was founded as Mosaic Communications Corporation on April 4, 1994 by Marc Andreessen and Jim Clark, and was the first company to attempt to capitalize on the nascent World Wide Web. It released a web browser called Mosaic Netscape 0.9 on October 13, 1994. Which is to say, Mosaic is Netscape.
Good try, but no. Quote:
from Wiki: This article relates to the browser produced by NCSA. For the browser that was renamed Netscape Navigator, see that article. Mosaic was the first popular World Wide Web browser and Gopher client. It was reliable and easy to install, which opened the Web up to the general public.[1] Mosaic was the first browser to actually implement images embedded in the text, rather than displayed in a separate window. Mosaic was developed at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA) beginning in late 1992. NCSA released the browser in 1993
Netscape Mosaic had to be renamed Netscape Navigator. NCSA Mosaic and Netscape Mosaic were different animals. It is true that Netscape was the first attempt to commercialize the Web, however it was a step backwards as NCSA was always free and Netscape navigator had to be repeatedly downloaded every few months as the free temporary license expired. And we were talking about all this in the context of making Wi-Fi free for all weren't we? There is no question that NCSA Mosaic predated Netscape Mosaic. There is also no question that NCSA Mosaic and Netscape Mosaic were different browsers even though some of the people that developed Mosaic Netscape had worked on NCSA Mosaic previously. NCSA Mosaic was the revolution

Posted on: 2007/9/25 1:51
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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sinik wrote: BTW browsers started with NCSA Mosaic not Netscape which was written by the same people. You are always a touch behind with your history.
From Wikipedia: The company was founded as Mosaic Communications Corporation on April 4, 1994 by Marc Andreessen and Jim Clark, and was the first company to attempt to capitalize on the nascent World Wide Web. It released a web browser called Mosaic Netscape 0.9 on October 13, 1994. Which is to say, Mosaic is Netscape. If you are looking to nitpick, IRC also stands for Internet Relay Chat, which was developed before 1994, though if you ask most people they will think of mIRC, which was far more common, and was not developed until 1995.

Posted on: 2007/9/25 1:26
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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BTW browsers started with NCSA Mosaic not Netscape which was written by the same people. You are always a touch behind with your history.

Posted on: 2007/9/24 23:48
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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ianmac47 wrote:
Also, as far as the image of the world, has no one ever heard of a composite image?



Even if 2ndhome wasnt joking, I was

Posted on: 2007/9/24 23:42
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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Sure, WiFi is the gas lamp of internet technology, and there are some exciting alternatives-- the spectrum the FCC is to auction off next January for instance (which becomes available when broadcast television becomes digital). Also, its unlikely Muni Wifi would replace many broadband customers internet. Wide deployment of wi-fi is relatively low speed compared to say 25mbps on Fiber, or even commercial cable 10 - 12 mbps, or residential cable at 4 to 6 mbps. Long range wifi has all sorts of interference that will reduce the speed of the connection. But again, I think its more about the handheld devices and services that will rely on large scale wifi, or its replacement.

Also, as far as the image of the world, has no one ever heard of a composite image?

From the NASA website:
"The above image is actually a composite of hundreds of pictures made by the orbiting DMSP satellites. "

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001127.html

Posted on: 2007/9/24 23:34
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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2ndhome wrote:
My feelings about muni wifi are mixed but in the current state we are in, I think its a way for munis to spy on what residents are doing / reading. No thanks.

JSQ is right...better be running a software firewall if you're going to use muni wifi.

I think that picture of lights at night is a fake. I have had if for years and still cant figure out when in the 24 hours of the day it is dark EVERYWHERE.


well if you are looking at porn, I can understand your concern.

You were joking about the time when it is dark everywhere, right?
Not only that but when is it dark at both poles? I'm scratching my head over this one.

Posted on: 2007/9/24 23:27
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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My feelings about muni wifi are mixed but in the current state we are in, I think its a way for munis to spy on what residents are doing / reading. No thanks.

JSQ is right...better be running a software firewall if you're going to use muni wifi.

I think that picture of lights at night is a fake. I have had if for years and still cant figure out when in the 24 hours of the day it is dark EVERYWHERE.

Posted on: 2007/9/24 23:08
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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We'll, night life in JC sucks so what abput WiFi?
Also, wifi is a techology as bad as ethernet, fit for the small and safe networks of the 80's, but not for today. I know that the US market is putting all its weight in keeping behind the rest of the world, but still, 802.11g will be obsolete in 5 years. At least, the light poles were useful for the last century.

Posted on: 2007/9/24 23:05
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Re: Wireless Internet - Steven Fulop
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Here is something I think is interesting to ponder.

Resized Image

The world at night -- most is still in the dark.
(click to enlarge the satellite view)


Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:

A hundred and fifty years ago, all but the most advanced cities were dark by nightfall. Nighttime was a frightening place. The introduction of gas lamps, and later electric street lights changed our society forever. Now any parking lot in America provides free light to anyone passing by. What has happened as a result? Instead of bedding down at dusk, bars, restaurants, clubs, concert venues, movie theaters-- nightlife -- has become a staple.

Posted on: 2007/9/24 22:58
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