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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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MDM wrote:
You would be screwing a lot of people doing that.


A lot of people are currently being screwed by the environmental effects of fracking. It's not without externalized costs. It's like if you were a wacko 60 years ago trying to get the industry of JC to stop dumping poisons all over the city, you'd be shouted down by all the people who might make less profit or lose their jobs if they had to stop. It doesn't mean they were right.

Posted on: 9/17 20:32
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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MDM wrote:
the USA will be a major gas exporter soon.


I think this should be illegal. Sure, a case can be made that we need to endure the evils of fracking for energy independence and reducing carbon emissions, but not for the greater profits of the carbon extraction industry.


You would be screwing a lot of people doing that. Mineral rights holders typically take on order of a 20% royalty on what is being pulled out of the ground. There are farmers getting five and six figured checks annually from what is being extracted out the ground.

Right now, about 35% to 40% of all the gas extracted in the USA is flared off as a waste product of oil drilling.. lost. This is due to the lack of infrastructure (pipelines) to get it to where it needs to go. I am following a couple companies that have developed small GTL plants that can be dropped into the oil field, turning that gas into light oils. Too early to tell if the technology is viable long term yet.

The gas extraction technology is getting so damn good that the gas industry is becoming profitable again (lots of bankruptcies after 2008). The cost per million BTU pulled out the ground keeps dropping. A single wellhead with horizontal drilling and 4D seismography can cover a radius of as much as 3.5 miles in any direction. So one well with a single riser, can cover something on the order of 38 square miles.

BTW: There are gas bearing formations in NJ (on land and off shore). Drilling wasn't economical under the technology available 30+ years ago.

Posted on: 9/17 19:24
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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MDM wrote:
the USA will be a major gas exporter soon.


I think this should be illegal. Sure, a case can be made that we need to endure the evils of fracking for energy independence and reducing carbon emissions, but not for the greater profits of the carbon extraction industry.

Posted on: 9/17 17:21
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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Monroe wrote:
Gee, where does the electricity come from to charge the batteries, lol?



Natural gas. Nuclear, which a decade go was the cheapest source of 24/7 power (excluding hydro) is now in trouble. NJ gets 50% of its power from nuclear. Over the next few years, that might be going to 0% as all three plants are money losers right now.

Gas might go up... A new LNG plant went online this year. I think seven more or so are under construction, so the USA will be a major gas exporter soon.

If oil goes back well above $65 per barrel, we will have two or three plants turning natural gas into fuel oils as well (oil it too cheap right now for this to happen).

Posted on: 9/17 16:56
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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Gee, where does the electricity come from to charge the batteries, lol?

Posted on: 9/17 16:37
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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Of course, all the 'greenies' who looooooove their ecars don't know (or care) about what goes into the batteries without which the cars wouldn't exist.

The same Hollywood elite who recoil over the thought of a 'blood diamond' don't seem to care about the children working in the cobalt mines.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphic ... -for-lithium-ion-battery/


And? This is somehow worse than propping up Middle East dictatorships with our fossil fuel addiction? Why on earth would you want to breathe fuel exhaust anyway? You and your stone age wife Yvonne seem to think we should keep combustion engines around forever. This is the future and the free market has effectively said so (even without subsidies, all of this has hit the tipping point).

Posted on: 9/17 16:29
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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Of course, all the 'greenies' who looooooove their ecars don't know (or care) about what goes into the batteries without which the cars wouldn't exist.

The same Hollywood elite who recoil over the thought of a 'blood diamond' don't seem to care about the children working in the cobalt mines.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphic ... -for-lithium-ion-battery/

Posted on: 9/17 15:08
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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AMo wrote:
Thanks. Is there any organized group pushing for this in JC?


I'm not sure who's pushing for it, other than city hall, but the neighborhood groups and Yvonne are sure pushing against it. Because who needs clean technologies and energy when free parking for a gas guzzler is at stake?

Posted on: 9/17 11:07
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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Thanks. Is there any organized group pushing for this in JC?

Posted on: 9/17 10:14
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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There are 19 charging outlets - only one super charger. They are not going away. Hopefully the city will work on getting more around the entire city.

http://joingreenspot.com/

Posted on: 9/17 1:57
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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What is the status of the car chargers? Are they on their way out? I'm thinking of getting a Bolt.

Posted on: 9/16 23:49
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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TheBigGuy wrote:
So why wouldn't PSEG or even electric car manufacturers want in on this market... product distribution is already in place?



Why aren't PSEG and other entities jumping on this? Short sightedness...


PSE&G probably stands to profit more by selling energy to charging station operators, instead of cutting themselves a discount on the rates and then making up the profits in the charging station business, where they have no unique expertise or competitve advantage.


It's interesting question PSEG has a home consumer appliance division. They compete against private business for that multitude of home services.

If someone called them to modify an electrical outlet in their garage as a charging station, seems like they could do the work... or would home owner look for a private electrician. It can't be very complicated work.

Posted on: 8/7 16:36
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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bodhipooh wrote:
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TheBigGuy wrote:
So why wouldn't PSEG or even electric car manufacturers want in on this market... product distribution is already in place?



Why aren't PSEG and other entities jumping on this? Short sightedness...


PSE&G probably stands to profit more by selling energy to charging station operators, instead of cutting themselves a discount on the rates and then making up the profits in the charging station business, where they have no unique expertise or competitve advantage.

Posted on: 8/7 15:53
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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PADNA is not against the EV charging stations. We only asked the city to allow half of the stations to be shared with public parking. Eight spaces are EXCLUSIVE charging only. And more will become exclusive as the demand increases.

http://fortune.com/2017/08/06/electric-car-charging-points/

Posted on: 8/7 11:14
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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bodhipooh wrote:
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TheBigGuy wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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TheBigGuy wrote:
I am curious to know who pays for all these "free" charging stations?


Who said anything about free charging stations? The stations are "for pay". Rates are based on kWh.


So the public charging stations are similar to traditional gas stations? The driver uses a credit card/pays cash for an electric hookup.

So why wouldn't PSEG or even electric car manufacturers want in on this market... product distribution is already in place?



Why aren't PSEG and other entities jumping on this? Short sightedness... The local NA (PADNA) actually came out against the dedicated EV parking, because "the demand is not there". My argument is that that having dedicated EV parking ahead of demand is exactly how you get people to start adopting these technologies. Waiting for demand is silly. A few years ago, I mulled getting a Tesla Model S, but opted against it because there was no easy way to get it charged. Sadly, a few months after that decision, I moved into The ArtHouse, and the EV parking is right in front and it would have been a perfect solution. I honestly feel that installing and making available charging stations is the perfect way to encourage people to buy and use electric vehicles. During "peak" hours, the charging station is essentially a meter (you pay for each hour you are connected, regardless of energy usage) and during off peak hours you pay for the energy you consume to charge your vehicle.


I used to pickup electric Zip Cars there... great for neighborhood use, then they pulled them and left us with more high priced ridiculous suvs/minivans. The market issue you described is exactly where "cable tv" was 35 years ago. The providers only installed in dense populated neighborhoods for a quicker ROI on limited distribution network.

In this case distribution is there, demographics are right, seems logical for PSEG to give it a try. Am I right in assuming that there is a universal electric outlet common to the different electric model manufacturers?



Yes, you are correct: there is an established standard for the EV charging connector. It is the J1772. Tesla uses a different plug connector, but each vehicle purchase includes an adapter that can be used to charge from a J1772 station.

After ZipCar went away, a new company was brought in: Maven. It is a GM-backed business. Ford is looking to emulate the program. Almost every major car manufacturer is either funding or actively working in schemes or programs to implement a "vehicle as a service" paradigm: you will either pay a monthly membership to have access to a vehicle, or you will pay for rides (similar to Uber/Lyft) and some manufacturers are really investing in self-driving solutions.

Fighting against EV parking is short sighted and trying to go against the current. Sadly, the city government went along with what the NA suggested/wanted.

Posted on: 8/7 8:33
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

TheBigGuy wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

TheBigGuy wrote:
I am curious to know who pays for all these "free" charging stations?


Who said anything about free charging stations? The stations are "for pay". Rates are based on kWh.


So the public charging stations are similar to traditional gas stations? The driver uses a credit card/pays cash for an electric hookup.

So why wouldn't PSEG or even electric car manufacturers want in on this market... product distribution is already in place?



Why aren't PSEG and other entities jumping on this? Short sightedness... The local NA (PADNA) actually came out against the dedicated EV parking, because "the demand is not there". My argument is that that having dedicated EV parking ahead of demand is exactly how you get people to start adopting these technologies. Waiting for demand is silly. A few years ago, I mulled getting a Tesla Model S, but opted against it because there was no easy way to get it charged. Sadly, a few months after that decision, I moved into The ArtHouse, and the EV parking is right in front and it would have been a perfect solution. I honestly feel that installing and making available charging stations is the perfect way to encourage people to buy and use electric vehicles. During "peak" hours, the charging station is essentially a meter (you pay for each hour you are connected, regardless of energy usage) and during off peak hours you pay for the energy you consume to charge your vehicle.


I used to pickup electric Zip Cars there... great for neighborhood use, then they pulled them and left us with more high priced ridiculous suvs/minivans. The market issue you described is exactly where "cable tv" was 35 years ago. The providers only installed in dense populated neighborhoods for a quicker ROI on limited distribution network.

In this case distribution is there, demographics are right, seems logical for PSEG to give it a try. Am I right in assuming that there is a universal electric outlet common to the different electric model manufacturers?


Posted on: 8/6 19:35
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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TheBigGuy wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

TheBigGuy wrote:
I am curious to know who pays for all these "free" charging stations?


Who said anything about free charging stations? The stations are "for pay". Rates are based on kWh.


So the public charging stations are similar to traditional gas stations? The driver uses a credit card/pays cash for an electric hookup.

So why wouldn't PSEG or even electric car manufacturers want in on this market... product distribution is already in place?



Why aren't PSEG and other entities jumping on this? Short sightedness... The local NA (PADNA) actually came out against the dedicated EV parking, because "the demand is not there". My argument is that that having dedicated EV parking ahead of demand is exactly how you get people to start adopting these technologies. Waiting for demand is silly. A few years ago, I mulled getting a Tesla Model S, but opted against it because there was no easy way to get it charged. Sadly, a few months after that decision, I moved into The ArtHouse, and the EV parking is right in front and it would have been a perfect solution. I honestly feel that installing and making available charging stations is the perfect way to encourage people to buy and use electric vehicles. During "peak" hours, the charging station is essentially a meter (you pay for each hour you are connected, regardless of energy usage) and during off peak hours you pay for the energy you consume to charge your vehicle.

Posted on: 8/6 18:49
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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Pretty sure its not a Tesla Supercharger, I'll go by and look but according to the Tesla Map and the dealership in Paramus, Tesla is installing in JC official Tesla Superchargers sometime by the end of this year. Rumor is the parking lot at Target that has the room for a bunch of them.

Posted on: 8/6 14:17
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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There is one Supercharger station on First Street between Marin Blvd. and Provost Street. It's been there well over a year. In the middle of the block.

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ZippyJC wrote:
I have put down a deposit on a Tesla 3 after being involved with the rollout in Fremont, Ca last week. I have 18 months to figure out charging. I would pay for the installation of a charging station in my area of Bergen Hill. Since there is power at the top every Utility Pole, the development of a location is pretty easy. I am in the process of talking to the City. Tesla is also announcing the location of a Supercharger (charges a Tesla to a full charge in under 30 min) by the end of this year.

Posted on: 8/5 19:44
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

TheBigGuy wrote:
I am curious to know who pays for all these "free" charging stations?


Who said anything about free charging stations? The stations are "for pay". Rates are based on kWh.


So the public charging stations are similar to traditional gas stations? The driver uses a credit card/pays cash for an electric hookup.

So why wouldn't PSEG or even electric car manufacturers want in on this market... product distribution is already in place?


Posted on: 8/5 19:29
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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I have put down a deposit on a Tesla 3 after being involved with the rollout in Fremont, Ca last week. I have 18 months to figure out charging. I would pay for the installation of a charging station in my area of Bergen Hill. Since there is power at the top every Utility Pole, the development of a location is pretty easy. I am in the process of talking to the City. Tesla is also announcing the location of a Supercharger (charges a Tesla to a full charge in under 30 min) by the end of this year.

Posted on: 8/5 18:18
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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There is a big difference between in-home charging and public charging stations. Public stations can now fully charge a car's battery in 30 minutes (goes to my earlier comment about how quickly things are changing.) The limiting factor is the car's charging acceptance rate, but manufacturer's are moving toward a universal standard. And most people stop more than every 300 miles on a long trip; you can top up as you go.

My solar comment was about residential, not on cars (although the Prius idea is very interesting. I didn't realize it was coming so soon - I would have waited a year. I just bought a new Prius... ) The idea is that you are creating a closed loop system between the solar panels, the powerwall storage and the storage/intake of the car battery.

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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
I agree mostly with your assessment. Two areas I differ are long trips and solar.

30 minutes is not nearly enough time for a charge in the scenario you describe. It is more like hours. Battery tech innovation has slowed down quite a bit...that is the limiter.

Solar...Toyota announced yesterday that they will include it in their Prius model as soon as next year. It is a very modest, but nice improvement. They state a 10% reduction/savings in fuel usage for the car.

Other considerations...can our aging electrical infrastructure handle the extra load of evs? Also, the heavy metals used in batteries are not very enviromentally friendly.

I think autonomous, ride sharing is a bigger deal than ev. That will have a more positive impact for people's wallet, time, and the environment.

Posted on: 6/24 17:47
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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PADNA's view of the First Street EV stations is positive, but the Electric Vehicle public has not arrived to use the spaces. Jersey City government has introduced these ordinances to clarify and enforce the exclusive EV spaces, as well as acknowledging that a majority of EV spaces remain empty 24/7 over the past three years. The EV spaces are not going away, but will share the EV spaces with zone permit and public parking until the need arrives. As EV charging demand increases, spaces will return to exclusive EV charging only. Until that time, the general public will use the unused spaces.

Many want to charge near their home. Wouldn't it make sense to create more public charging stations spread throughout the city, not all in one place? This way people won't have to travel far to charge. I would be interested in hearing who would like public EV charging stations on their street. Any volunteers?

Posted on: 6/24 16:36
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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I agree mostly with your assessment. Two areas I differ are long trips and solar.

30 minutes is not nearly enough time for a charge in the scenario you describe. It is more like hours. Battery tech innovation has slowed down quite a bit...that is the limiter.

Solar...Toyota announced yesterday that they will include it in their Prius model as soon as next year. It is a very modest, but nice improvement. They state a 10% reduction/savings in fuel usage for the car.

Other considerations...can our aging electrical infrastructure handle the extra load of evs? Also, the heavy metals used in batteries are not very enviromentally friendly.

I think autonomous, ride sharing is a bigger deal than ev. That will have a more positive impact for people's wallet, time, and the environment.

Posted on: 6/24 7:15
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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35% of all greenhouse gas emissions tie back to transportation fuels.

EVs are advancing at a rate that is almost untrackable. Every major auto manufacturer has plans to roll out between three and five models over the next five years; prices have begun to come down and with scale will come down significantly. Range on better EVs is approaching 300 miles - within striking distance of most SUVs (Daimler has a prototype that goes 310 miles that it will debut in October at the Paris motor show.)

Frankly though, range limitation is a silly notion, when you think about it. 20th century thinking. Who drives 300 miles in one day? Not many people - and when you do (a long trip, usually) you can plan in a 30 minute stop for a meal while you charge. Otherwise, you drive your 10, 20, 50 or so miles during the day and plug in when you get home in the evening. The average car sits idle 94% of the time. Where the future is actually headed is your EV will become an additional storage battery to the Powerwall for your solar panels (this is why Elon Musk bought Solar City.) When you are not driving and your car is plugged in at home, the car will be able to serve as a source of power for your home at night (and your home's power needs are greatly reduced.) You still draw from the grid at times, but it materially reduces your usage.

As with most new technologies, adoption is slow in the beginning and lulls people into extrapolating that low rate out indefinitely makes sense. There is almost always an inflection point where a technology breakthrough occurs or costs drop and people flock to it. EVs won't be an exception. What will likely drive it is very recent policy shifts in China and India that will lead to much greater market penetration and, likely, exports of much cheaper EVs which will drive competition elsewhere. Just like the Japanese did in the 70s with small, fuel-efficient cars.

Posted on: 6/23 16:57
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
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MDM wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
I hope the city holds the line, as we should be embracing and encouraging the use of such cars to help reduce contamination, and exhaust fumes, while also doing a tiny little part towards preserving regional environmental health.


If you look at the life-cycle cost of electric vehicles (i.e. take in account the energy needed to make the batteries, generating source of the electricity, etc.) you get little in the what you described above.

Modern gasoline powered cars are pretty clean when it comes to CO, SOx, NOx, and VOCs (the latter two causing smog and ozone). In fact, if you tried committing suicide by filling your car with exhaust, it would take a while since CO levels produced by modern cars is so low.

There are other issue is with electric car batteries, which aren't affordable or practical (car batteries need to be heated and cooled). Unless someone invents a super capacitor with the same amount of energy storage as a tank of gasoline (similar size / weight), electric cars are just going to be expensive toys for very wealthy people.


You are correct about the issues facing EVs. However, there is the issue of drilling for oil which you completely left out.

Producing electricity has become quite diverse, from windmills to solar panels, electricity generation has become cleaner. Meanwhile, drilling for oil has become the actions of fracking, which is quite destructive.

Lastly, while many EVs are expensive at the moment, this is due to the lack of supply with the vehicles. Once demand for the vehicles along with the ability to charge them becomes more convenient, the production costs will drop.

Posted on: 6/23 14:03
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bodhipooh wrote:
I hope the city holds the line, as we should be embracing and encouraging the use of such cars to help reduce contamination, and exhaust fumes, while also doing a tiny little part towards preserving regional environmental health.


If you look at the life-cycle cost of electric vehicles (i.e. take in account the energy needed to make the batteries, generating source of the electricity, etc.) you get little in the what you described above.

Modern gasoline powered cars are pretty clean when it comes to CO, SOx, NOx, and VOCs (the latter two causing smog and ozone). In fact, if you tried committing suicide by filling your car with exhaust, it would take a while since CO levels produced by modern cars is so low.

There are other issue is with electric car batteries, which aren't affordable or practical (car batteries need to be heated and cooled). Unless someone invents a super capacitor with the same amount of energy storage as a tank of gasoline (similar size / weight), electric cars are just going to be expensive toys for very wealthy people.

Posted on: 6/23 9:26
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BTW, this topic is another example of a NA wanting to run things like a fiefdom in which old ideas reign supreme. As with almost every other NA, the PADNA is obsessed with parking. It has become a very contentious issue, and it is disappointing to see some members actively lobbying the parking authority and the city to implement new rules that directly affect the neighborhood residents. Now, they want to see EV parking greatly reduced or completely removed, under the guise of parking availability, arguing that there isn't enough demand for designated EV parking. I hope the city holds the line, as we should be embracing and encouraging the use of such cars to help reduce contamination, and exhaust fumes, while also doing a tiny little part towards preserving regional environmental health. Ultimately, this is a chicken or the egg debate: do you wait for the demand to materialize? Or, do you encourage that demand by building out the necessary infrastructure? I say, let's be proactive.

Posted on: 6/23 8:47
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
#5
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Quote:

TheBigGuy wrote:
I am curious to know who pays for all these "free" charging stations?


Who said anything about free charging stations? The stations are "for pay". Rates are based on kWh.

Posted on: 6/23 8:40
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Re: Come to City Hall this upcoming Wednesday to promote electric vehicle charging in JC #EVinJC
#4
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Interesting topic. I'd like to purchase an electric vehicle but currently park on the street. Would I be able to pay for an electric station to be installed in front my house hooked up to my electricity? Obviously I'd set it up so I'd be the only one to be able to use it. That being said, it would essentially become my parking spot. Is there any guidelines if that can be done? I wouldn't even know where to start.

Posted on: 6/22 21:30
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