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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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Thanks, DanL
 I downloaded the Agenda, it seems to all contracts and appointments - have you ever been to one of these? Give/PM me any recommendations - do you have to sign-up to testify in advance; how useful is it to speak on topics not specifically on the Agenda, etc.
Posted on: 2014/9/10 13:56
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... sept_10.html#incart_river NJ Transit's Board of Directors to have public meeting at Newark HQ NJ Transit will host a public meeting at 6 p.m .tomorrow at its headquarters' board room at One Penn Plaza in Newark. Various issues regarding NJ Transit's transportation service will be discussed. The meeting will feature the Board of Directors for NJ Transit Corporation, NJ Transit Rail Operations, Inc., NJ Transit Bus Operations, Inc., NJ Transit Mercer, Inc., and NJ Transit Morris, Inc.
Posted on: 2014/9/10 0:58
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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Exatcly! people want nothing from nothing, When I moved to GV from DTJC I knew what I was getting into and was ready to get my hands dirty. We have had plantings, we now have yoga, boxing in the park, and a active Block Association that meets with city officials once a month. We have won an award from the city for our improvements to the area with out government assistants. She is complaining about buses and her property values but not doing anything to improve the situation. Anyway. Keep wishing for that gentrification.
Posted on: 2014/9/10 0:16
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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Posted on: 2014/9/10 0:12
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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+1. A lot of the things folks take for granted today were not obvious or easy. I remember 15 or so years ago when HP resident Alan Singer came to HPNA and wanted to start a HP farmers market, and was met with negativity and suspicion. The reno of the park was similar battles for what should have been obvious things like dog runs and water features. It took shifting the demographics of the HPNA board to get some of these things, so don't underestimate the power of one person to affect the local agenda.
Posted on: 2014/9/9 23:47
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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I know User1111 isn't always loved on here, but he makes a totally valid point. The best way to bring about positive change in our neighborhoods is to get involved at a community level. Go to neighborhood association meetings, go to PTA meetings, go to council meetings, etc. You're sure to find many other like-minded people and there's definitely strength in numbers. Also, great places to meet your committee people, assemblyman, councilman, etc. People who can more directly cause change via legislation and influence, something you or I may not be able to do.
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Posted on: 2014/9/9 23:35
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Founder of Lafayette Nextdoor
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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You are an a-hole and I'm ignoring that question - and you, from now on. But I do have a real question for everyone - is there anyone in ANY position of authority at NJTransit or in JC government to lodge a complaint with about how unacceptable bus service to the Heights is? Tonight we waited 30 minutes in Hoboken with no 87, line stretching back to the taxi stand. At least 5 or 6 126 buses left, the last with 1 person on it!!! I took I pix with my phone I can send them.
Posted on: 2014/9/9 23:23
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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No disrespect, but what are you doing to bring The Heights to where you want it? Are you meeting with your neighborhood association to bring about the change you desire? Thanks!
Posted on: 2014/9/9 18:26
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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A very good question - I think the answer depends on whether you consider gentrifcation a good thing (spurring development leads to a rising quality of life that attracts new residents and raises property values) or a bad thing (locals are pushed out as developers build expensive condos, and chain stores take the place of unique local businesses). I raised the question, as a reaction to my personal experience living in the Heights for 6 years. Now, many people on this board are long-time residents of the Heights, and I don't want to belittle their home, so I'll say as a 'citizen of the greater NYC area' the Heights is falling way short of it's potential, and better mass transit access to Hoboken, NYC, and DTJC is the major reason.
Posted on: 2014/9/9 18:14
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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Well, I'm thrilled to see the number of informative, thoughtful answers to my OP! It was especially good for me - as a educated citizen - to hear professional planners perspectives, and the pros-and-cons of the various transportation modalities.
It's more clear (since no-one linked me to any past studies or initiatives) that this has to start on a political level, for which there doesn't seem to be a clear constituency. What is less clear is where this sort of movement might start - admittedly, I have very little "skin in the game" - one small condo, the value of which I would like to see go up and a desire to see the Heights 'gentrify' so as to have more to do here. I didn't get the sense there is anyone else advocating for an overhaul of north Jersey City transit planning, though.
Posted on: 2014/9/9 18:03
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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No, it would not. But like the light rail, it would transport a ton of people from other parts of JC to the downtown area. Especially the mall. People outside of downtown area love going to the mall.
Posted on: 2014/9/9 15:31
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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Sorry, but I'm seeing some loops in your logic. 'BRT isn't a good solution for the Heights because of traffic stops and it's too hard to get past the car lobby to implement the cheap bus priority lights so the answer is take away many billions road funding to build a full out rail system rather than a BRT at a fraction the price'. What would be in your dream for a non-grade transit? Dig a subway? An elevated over JFK? Fact is, there's not that many major e-w through traffic crossings of Summit, basically you've got Newark, 139 and Patterson. And the time improvement over the slow traffic on the N-S bus routes would be tremendous, I drive Palisade all the time and creeping behind the buses is painful, I'd really hate it if I was on those buses. But then I hate commuting so much I've structured my life so I don't have to. Not everyone has that choice.
Posted on: 2014/9/9 0:27
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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That's not how it works in practice. Priority lights are (1) strongly political resisted by the car lobby and (2) mostly infeasible as a way of preventing the buses from stopping, even if they actually slow down a bit. Plus, they actually do cause huge traffic problems when they result in a lot of lights changing for BRT priority. This is also a problem with street-running light rails, of course, but that's not what I'm advocating. Quote: They also don't stop every 2 blocks, but further apart like a rail. The idea is to avoid the slow crawl of jitneys and buses up and down roads like Palisade, where one stop stops all traffic. The difference is pretty damned small. It's not that far from the Heights to the Lincoln Tunnel. Five stops versus one stop makes minimal difference, especially when there are still a bunch of stops for traffic lights, blocked intersections, etc. anyway. Quote: Comparisons to heavier infrastructure are pointless, BRT is actually possible, but rail above or below ground is simply monetarily unfeasible, unless you've got the billions personally. Wishing for it is only one step less silly than those perennially wishing for a footbridge over the Hudson. Only because we lack the political will to stand up to the car lobby and demand real money from transit and instead settle for pathetic half-measures like BRT. The footbridge is a dumb idea for entirely unrelated reasons.
Posted on: 2014/9/8 23:11
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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My mistake, I guess it just works that way at the grade crossings like at Jersey or Patterson plank, not where it's actually on the street like on York. There are systems that do as I described, as the bus approaches, a radio system changes the light in it's favor. It's not rocket science. JCishome: That's not surprising, and explains why we end up with nothing in the end. The HBLR was not cheap to build and even so was an anomaly in that it could be run most of it's route on existing rights of way without condemnation, only actually on the street in Paulus Hook. The inertia of the status quo is immense, just look at the reactionaries against the Newark closing where few cars actually drive. Imagine trying to shake out all the street quirks of JC, like making the far too many 2 way avenues one way, or fixing the mazes of short one ways in areas of the Heights where you can go in circles. How about even getting rid of either parking or 2 way traffic on little Division Street, which simply isn't wide enough for both and seems designed for collisions. Nope, it stays as it ever was.
Posted on: 2014/9/8 22:13
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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I have friend who is a transit planning consultant. She was very involved in the the HBLR project. According to her, transit consultants can be categorized into "rail people" and "bus people", and they have very lively debates (imagine the Christmas party!). Anyway, all the consultants agree that bus rapid transit can be brought on-line much faster and cheaper than any rail system...but that they never come to fruition because people like streetcars and hate buses. I'm sure this makes the bus people very sad.
Posted on: 2014/9/8 21:09
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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I don't know which HBLR you are riding, but the HBLR I use (sparingly, granted) is forced to stop at many traffic lights. The traffic lights don't magically turn to green as it approaches. They may get priority, and they may turn a bit faster, but I have seen light rail trains wait the light for a good minute. It is the main reason why it takes so damn long to get anywhere. From LSP to Newport is a 15 minute ride! By car, it is half that. I can get to Newport faster by bike than by light rail.
Posted on: 2014/9/8 20:58
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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You don't know enough about BRT. The lights change for the bus same as for the HBLR, so it's a smooth sail in it's own lane. And don't JC originating buses use the designated bus lane through the tunnel at rush? Not my route so I don't know. They also don't stop every 2 blocks, but further apart like a rail. The idea is to avoid the slow crawl of jitneys and buses up and down roads like Palisade, where one stop stops all traffic. Comparisons to heavier infrastructure are pointless, BRT is actually possible, but rail above or below ground is simply monetarily unfeasible, unless you've got the billions personally. Wishing for it is only one step less silly than those perennially wishing for a footbridge over the Hudson.
Posted on: 2014/9/8 20:38
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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Yup. There's no lack of bus service to/from the Heights currently. BRT wouldn't be any faster unless you actually got a designated lane through the Lincoln Tunnel (yeah, right!) and also didn't have to cross traffic at most intersections. It's just not workable when converting ordinary street grids rather than building entirely new BRT highways; BRT still has to stop at all of the lights and gets ensnared in traffic nearly as badly as other buses. And, although it's mildly more permanent than regular buses, it still doesn't give the permanence that real development needs. BRT is a waste of time and political effort.
Posted on: 2014/9/8 19:45
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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the heights has plenty of those jitneys into 42nd street. i personally don't think more frequent bus service would be a catalyst for development the way that light rail or train service has been
Posted on: 2014/9/8 19:14
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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It would be worth looking at other complimentary alternatives that don't cost a lot in infrastructure, but promote local jobs and greener transport alternatives.
I'd like to see the whole cab system overhauled from a simple revenue generator for the city, to something that is regulated only to the extent that it caters for passenger safety and eco-friendliness. For example, I'd love to see the likes of electric tricycles, and tuk-tuks able to pick up and drop off passengers anywhere in the city. Order one, Uber-style. The city could charge for yearly inspections, check insurance, safety training validation, etc - but other than that - deregulate it - and let the market figure out how to create and pay for it.
Posted on: 2014/9/8 17:30
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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I've been saying for a while now bidirectional BRT from JS to the 42nd st PA terminal via Summit would be transformative for the Heights. As for the payment issue, that's easy: electronic card passes only, no cash. It's not a "local" bus, it's BRT. The biggest obstacle would be locals opposed to losing parking spots to the BRT lanes.
BRT isn't perfect, but compared to subway or even light rail, it's actually feasible on a moderate budget that isn't billions.
Posted on: 2014/9/8 15:39
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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The difference needs to happen at the planning stage. A city committted to development without displacement; mixed neighborhoods instead of segregation. How does that happen? I'm no expert, but here are some articles with some strategies: http://reimaginerpe.org/node/919 http://cjjc.org/images/development-without-displacement.pdf
Posted on: 2014/9/8 15:16
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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What's the difference between spurring development and enabling/encouraging gentrification?
Posted on: 2014/9/8 15:02
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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The main problem with Bus Rapid Transit in the United States is that American elected officials see it as a service that is the cheap alternative to actually investing in infrastructure, meaning BRT in the United States is basically as useless as non-BRT systems.
A successful BRT system needs dedicated travel lanes, traffic signal control facilitating only green lights for buses, elevated platforms, pre-pay fare zones and continuous regular service (which in the NYC metro area would include 24hour service on par with PATH and MTA trains). Unfortunately, because American politicians are unduly influenced by the wealthy, BRT is treated as a low cost alternative to trams or heavy rail. Take for instance NJTransit's BRT system, the Go Bus in Newark. Instead of having pre-pay stations, riders "As you enter, pay your fare or show your pass to the driver," -- just like every other bus route. One improvement of the Go Bus is that they are "easily identified with special signage," an improvement over most other NJTransit stops that are poorly labeled. Still, without platforms, passengers load slowly, and buses still have to take extra time accommodating wheelchairs. Go Bus doesn't run on dedicated lanes or have control of traffic signals -- meaning the buses are stuck in traffic just like any other bus or private car. Basically, NJTransit's first BRT attempt is nothing more than a pretty paint job, but that's much cheaper than building a light rail line. NYC's BRT are somewhat better, but still a long way away from what they should be. Most Select Buses have dedicated bus lanes, but the city does a poor job of enforcement and often the lanes are used by cars for double parking or deliveries, meaning buses still end up stuck in traffic. Select Buses don't have traffic signal control -- prohibited by NY State law -- but at the time they services were introduced, officials have been working to change the laws allowing buses control. Its yet to happen. The Select Buses do have a pre-pay system, but the main problem with them is that they are not integrated with the subway, and monthly card holders must pay an extra fee to ride the Select Bus, meaning the city is treating the Select Buses as something special rather than part of the integrated system. The Select Buses are an improvement over NJTransit's Go Bus, but still not anything that should be taken seriously without significant improvement to the service. One of the most modern systems is actually in Bogot?, Columbia, as reported in the NYTimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/10/world/americas/10degrees.html Building out a system like the one in Columbia would probably be a successful way of bringing transit to a lot of outer areas of the NYC-Metro region, including Jersey City, Union City, North Bergen and beyond. But New Jersey's elected officials will never be willing to commit to the investment necessary to make the system work and function correctly, and a botched roll out will only harm long term prospects for transit overall.
Posted on: 2014/9/8 14:54
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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BRT should definitely be considered an option in JC. I think we have enough side streets and avenues that parallel heavily congested ones to make it an option. BRT has been a success in many places where train development cost was prohibitive.
Here's a summary of research showing that BRT spurs development and at higher degree than light rail or streetcars: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmah ... ight-rail-and-streetcars/ This other article is interesting in that it explains, while BRT can be quite succesful, public perception is that buses suck, which makes it harder for governments to convince their cities this is something they should invest in. http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/20 ... gument-over-brt-and-rail/ "BRT is just not sexy until you?ve experienced it. Which is why the considerable success of BRT in South America has not convinced many U.S. cities to abandon their ambitions for more rail. Articles like those in the Journal and the Globe and Mail, despite their positive assessments of the potential for BRT, nonetheless reinforce the sense that BRT is inferior to rail by putting the two in contrast to one another, rather than focusing on the relative benefits of each. By continuously describing BRT as an economical way to get something like light rail, all that comes across is that it?s cheap."
Posted on: 2014/9/8 14:38
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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I second streetcars/light rail. Lots of cities around the world have awesome trolley systems and they are much easier to install than subways, and very convenient.
Posted on: 2014/9/8 14:38
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Re: Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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BRT is kind of a joke and not to be taken seriously. It's only useful for long-haul commuting, and the distance from the Heights to the Lincoln Tunnel is short enough where the advantages of BRT are minimal. Something like another branch of the light rail running along the west side and connecting to Journal Square would be much more effective.
Posted on: 2014/9/8 14:14
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I'd like to see streetcars implemented in former retail areas that need rehabilitation (Monticello, Bergen Ave, MLK, etc.). Modern streetcars are energy efficient, easy to install and cost-effective. Many cities, including DC are installing these as a way to both help transportation and to re-ignite business in these blighted areas and its working.
Posted on: 2014/9/8 13:51
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Would 'bus rapid transit' help spur development in JC outside of DT?
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This article from YIMBY (an NYC-oriented development blog) had this article about the need to facilitate denser development in the "outer" boroughs. It acknowledges the impracticality of expanding the subway system; a parallel problem exists in JC, where expanding PATH will probably not happen for the same reasons, and outlines ways to enhance bus service - dedicated lanes, pre-payment of fares, etc.
How could that happen - and who would a citizen need to lobby - in, say, the Heights? http://newyorkyimby.com/2014/09/can-b ... d77889dce0-105542349&ct=t(YIMBY_News_Sep_6th_2014)
Posted on: 2014/9/8 13:38
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