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Re: LIRR construction delayed years, way over budget
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4. Don't believe in all the untruths about a candidate that the Clinton supporters in the drive by media are scared to death about.
5. Ignore the facts in an argument when they don't suit your agenda and try to make funny jokes about someone's appearance. It's the msnbc playbook-smear the right with tactics you claim they use, but you do all the time. (War on women-Bashir. Homophobia-Baldwin. Racism-that gal making fun of the Romney adopted grandchild. Bi-racial kids-the most recent example).
Posted on: 2014/1/31 17:07
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Re: LIRR construction delayed years, way over budget
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Pop Quiz In response to the attached article Monroe will reply: 1. Don't believe anything you read that puts Christie in a bad light 2. That wasn't Christie it was the Macy's Christmas Christie balloon. Christie was with his trainer discussing smoothies. 3. Deflect the discussion by offering second hand reports on the psychological state of Asian vegetables 4. None of the above - fill in a better answer
Posted on: 2014/1/31 16:32
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Among other factual errors in the article (no cost overruns expected??) is the false statement that the PA was offering to share in the cost overruns with NJ. And the 45,000 jobs would almost all have been in NYC, not in NJ. With their taxes going to NYState, washed against their NJ income taxes, a loss for NJ. The Port Authority stated that they had zero dollars to pitch in with cost overruns as they had committed all their other revenue to other projects. And federal low interest loans would not help NJ a bit, we'd still be on the hook. If this project is so vital to the region and the country, then all Christie wanted was equal partnership in the cost overruns (as seen in the MTA project, now running 25% over cost and likely to continue to rise until the now delayed completion). The other partners wanted to be stake holders without being financial partners on the downside. Good for Christie he refused to screw NJ taxpayers for the benefit of NY and others. Big Dig anyone? So it's just another partisan MSNBC hack job story, with half and untruths.
Posted on: 2014/1/31 16:30
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Re: LIRR construction delayed years, way over budget
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Posted on: 2014/1/31 15:40
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Re: LIRR construction delayed years, way over budget
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2005/6/8 3:24 Last Login : 2022/11/28 0:04 From New Urbanist Area
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Part of it is that NYC has several other forms of taxation so that it is not dependent on property tax. But otherwise you are correct, because that's generally what large cities are about. Especially when they are surrounded by suburbs that appeal to people who want to live in quieter, more isolated and less diverse communities but have access to the economic and cultural amenities of a city.
Posted on: 2014/1/29 3:15
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Not true.. you only pay NYC income tax if you live in NYC.
Posted on: 2014/1/29 1:56
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In the end, Christie's decision to hijack the transportation trust fund for potholes rather than capital infrastructure, as intended, may have helped shape his presidential persona, but it cost the state: Check out 'Figure 3' http://wagner.nyu.edu/files/rudincenter/ManhattanCommuting.pdf (scroll about 1/2 way down). While I am a huge advocate of mass transit, and have railed against accomodating cars before on this site, in Union City/Jersey Cithy/Hoboken, 14 to 36% of residents commute to NYC via bus, as opposed to 0.2 to 2% by rail. PAT accounts for 2 to 32%. Not that ARC was not important for the region, but given the large % of people who use busses, perhaps not a waste of funds. A larger scale, multi-modal transit enhancement needs to be better planned for the entire north NJ area.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 23:06
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http://tax.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/571 Toonces, if you are not living in NYC and you are having NYC tax deducted, you should talk to whoever does your payroll.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 21:34
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I'm really not interested in getting into this debate, but don't forget that if you work in NYC, you also pay NYC income tax.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 20:19
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Posted on: 2014/1/28 19:41
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Those jobs are in NYC whether the tunnel is built or not. What it really means is that 45,000 more NJ commuters would have access to those jobs. Also, NJ residents pay taxes in NJ whether or not their jobs are in the city. Also, in the present day, suburban northern New Jersey office markets are two to three times as vacant as NYC's office market, running between 20 and 30% vacant, while most of the markets in the city are under 10% vacant. That's a good indication as to where job growth is.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 19:27
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monroe - you last response was helpful but wouldn't a more attractive NJ allow NJ to continue trying to poach jobs from NY. The reality is that NY state is gonna get those jobs regardless.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 18:59
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45,000 more commuters working in Manhattan, paying NY taxes, without using up school services and other services are a godsend, that's why they wanted the tunnel. Without paying for it, of course.
Pick up a NYTimes Real Estate section and see what little real estate taxes Manhattan owners pay. It's a great deal to have someone commute in, spend money in stores and restaurants, then leave at the end of the day without using the services they pay for.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 18:55
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why would NY willingly pony up for more money that might create more competition for NY state
Posted on: 2014/1/28 18:48
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I pulled the Port Authority quote straight from the link that was supposed to disprove me, lol. Facts are facts. NY and the Feds offered no financial solutions that would make them partner in the cost overruns. The Feds offered only low income loans to help cover the overruns, not grant money. And again, even after Christie pulled the plug, the voters in NJ supported him with re-election-so I guess he had the pulse of the voters.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 18:36
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If you wanted to get it straight, you would have kept reading.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 18:15
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This is a laughably stupid comparison
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Christie defeated Jon Corzine by a margin of 48.5% to 44.9%. Obama won the presidency with 365 electoral votes to 173 received by McCain. Obama won 52.9% of the popular vote to McCain's 45.7% Majority. Plurality. 3.6%. Double that at 7.2% Quote: And know what? Even after he pulled the plug on the tunnel he was re-elected with higher number of Democrats, minorities, and women voting for him. Hurricane Sandy came 2+ years after the tunnel cancellation. Would you really like to see infinite studies of the short term memory of voters? Would you like to see the popularity numbers post-scandal? No? Too bad, here ya go: A new national poll shows New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie?s (R) popularity tanking as scandal continues to plague his second term. The NBC/Wall Street Journal poll now shows him underwater, with 29 percent of Americans viewing him negatively while only 22 percent view him positively. That?s a significant shift from October, when the same poll showed 33 percent of Americans viewing him positively while 17 percent viewed him negatively. Potentially more damning to his presidential prospects is the drop in support he?s seen among women, independents and Democrats, who previously viewed him more positively than negatively. Now, only 15 percent of Democrats, 20 percent of independents and 21 percent of women view him positively. -SNIP- Gov. Chris Christie's popularity among New Jersey voters has plummeted in the wake of the George Washington Bridge scandal ? driven by an exodus of support from Democrats, according to a poll released today. The Rutgers-Eagleton poll ? conducted about two weeks after e-mails surfaced that appear to link a top Christie aide to the ongoing bridge controversy ? show 46 percent of voters across the state view the Republican governor favorably. That's a 19-point drop from the group's last survey, in November.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 18:10
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And while Christie did at one point favor the project, he did that when he didn't know the financial hole that existed when Corzine rode out of Trenton-thinking you had a couple/three billions dollars more in the piggybank that you do changes things. And, as Obama fans like to say, Christie was given a mandate by the voters. And know what? Even after he pulled the plug on the tunnel he was re-elected with higher number of Democrats, minorities, and women voting for him.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 17:50
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Adonis - I am glad you can predict the future. NOT. 30 years ago, many said the city was DOOMED! Have you heard of exurbs! and there is no great exodus of financial firms from manhattan - maybe backoffice to jersey..maybe retrenchment but no great exodus!
Posted on: 2014/1/28 17:48
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The tunnel would have vastly helped NY at NJ's expense. In 20 years most of those people riding NJ Transit into Manhattan will be working from home. And many of them will be working in places such as Jersey City since the exodus of financial and other firms leaving Manhattan has already begun. Halting the tunnel construction given the true cost involved is probably the best step in forward thinking in recent years, intentional or not.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 17:45
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"According to Port Authority officials, although both parties signed the agreement, there was no commitment of assistance from the Port Authority in the event that the project experienced cost increases. Port Authority officials told us that the agency?s existing $3 billion commitment was the maximum the agency could provide to the project, given the constraints of their overall capital program."
So, let me get this straight. The Port Authority (which is half funded by NJ anyway) had zero commitment to help with a single penny in cost overruns. And no mention of NY State or the Federal government aiding in the inevitable billions in overruns. Leaving exactly who to cover it? Me and you, the already overtaxed residents of NJ. Edited to ask-NJ would get 45,000 new jobs because of the tunnel? Where in NJ? Didn't you mean 45,000 NJ residents paying NY taxes and spending money there every day?
Posted on: 2014/1/28 16:55
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Wishful_Thinking, I agree with you, but the point is that these items were on the table while nothing was settled. That?s not the reality that our Governor sold to the public.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 15:59
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Nothing you say here is correct. First, the ARC tunnel project -- a bi-partisan plan that first found traction in under the Christine Todd Whitman and Donald DiFrancesco era, Republicans -- was an already agreed upon contract before Christie came to office. In fact, in Bergen County, one of the biggest beneficiaries of the tunnel both in terms of commute times and in potential property values, he campaigned on the issue of ensuring the tunnel kept going. The funding was divided approximately in thirds -- $3 billion from the federal government, $3 billion from the Port Authority, and $2.8 billion plus overruns from the state. Since the state was managing the project and would ultimately own the capital assets when the project was completed, it seems kind of reasonable that 49 other states shouldn't be on the hook when New Jersey's corruption, graft, and mismanagement drive up the costs of a project that singularly benefits the state. But that was all before the project was cancelled. The real problem was the transportation trust fund. The governor's administration saw that money -- some of it allocated for the ARC tunnel -- and decided it would be easier to simply use the money to repave the state's roads than invest in a long term infrastructure. Raising the gas tax would be unpopular in a presidential election, and there was hope that the federal money allocated for the project would still come to New Jersey. It wasn't. When the tunnel was cancelled and the governor was crying about cost overruns so dumbass suckers like you would believe that canceling the tunnel was about cost overruns and not about using the money for pothole repairs, the Obama administration and transportation secretary LaHood began frantically trying to salvage the project that would provide New Jersey with access to the city that produces 8.6% of the nation's GDP. The month of negotiations back and forth resulted in Christie getting everything he publicly insisted he wanted, primarily that the Federal government would cover cost overruns. The Obama administration wanted a win on building national infrastructure, and though they would punish the state by withholding other grants, they would give the governor what he wanted on this issue to keep the tunnel going. All that was needed was the press conference announcing the deal. Ordinarily, as a federal secretary, LaHood outranked a governor and should have held the presser, but the governor wanted to do it. The next day, instead of announcing the new terms of the deal -- a deal negotiated at gun point -- the governor announced that no deal had been reached, and that the project was officially dead. The terms of the deal were widely discussed among political insiders, but nobody was willing to go on record for fear of reprisals, and so the media simply reported on the governor's press conference. In the aftermath, the governor refused to repay the money already spent, as per terms of the contract with the federal government for the money. Because the state broke the terms of the contract and then refused to repay the money, other transportation money was withheld. In the end, Christie's decision to hijack the transportation trust fund for potholes rather than capital infrastructure, as intended, may have helped shape his presidential persona, but it cost the state: $18 Billion in property values 6,000 construction jobs 45,000 permanent jobs And all while New Jersey has a higher than the national average unemployment rate.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 15:55
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I'll read the full report over lunch, but I'm sorry - I am a HUGE proponent of mass transit, and agree with HERO69 that these projects more than pay for themselves in the long run - there were too many unknowns. Public-private partnership means... naming rights? A loan and/or more PA debt? Bad idea - the PA, unlike LIRR, answers to know one. This would have been a debacle. Again, I support spending more on mass transit, but the PA needs to be broken up/disbanded first.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 15:50
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That?s what the Governor wanted us to believe with respect to the ARC project, but it doesn?t appear to have been the whole, honest truth. A study issued by the US Government Accountability Office reported: The general project agreement, which was a document prepared as part of the New Starts process and signed by NJT and the Port Authority in 2009, addressed potential cost growth. According to the agreement, if costs exceeded $8.766 billion (or if less than $3 billion was provided by FTA), both parties agreed to work together to obtain additional funding sources. According to Port Authority officials, although both parties signed the agreement, there was no commitment of assistance from the Port Authority in the event that the project experienced cost increases. Port Authority officials told us that the agency?s existing $3 billion commitment was the maximum the agency could provide to the project, given the constraints of their overall capital program. (But don't stop reading there.) In the weeks preceding the project?s cancellation, the Secretary of Transportation and the governor of New Jersey held discussions on additional funding sources for the ARC project or a reduction in project scope. The additional funding options discussed included increased funding by the federal government, New Jersey, and the Port Authority; a federal railroad loan; or a public-private partnership contribution. Because the project was terminated before a full funding grant agreement was entered into between FTA and NJT, there was no final agreement by all the parties on the issue of responsibility for ARC cost growth. Read it yourself: http://www.gao.gov/assets/590/589192.pdf
Posted on: 2014/1/28 15:21
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Thank God Christie put the kibosh on the tunnel project.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 15:14
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Christie extended the discussion time to give the Feds and NY time to figure out how to share the multi-billion dollar cost overruns, which was designed to sit solely on the shoulders of NJ taxpayers.
They refused and that's what killed the tunnel. Had the Feds and NY done the right thing and shared the burden we'd be digging now, but they didn't step up and do the right thing.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 15:04
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Big freaking deal if the LIRR tunnel are overbudget. yes, being overbudget is not great but in the LONG term NY will have the infrastructure in place to support growth.
Guess what, I bet the George Washington bridge, the lincoln and holland tunnels and the PATH trains were all over-budget. I guess they never should have been built - you can take a boat across the hudson
Posted on: 2014/1/28 14:47
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They offered loans and an aggressive push for a public private partnership to pull in more money and asked what else the Governor might want but he just shut it down without negotiating. The original deal was bad for NJ, he did a fine job of highlighting that, but he had leverage to open it back up and didn't.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 14:46
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No, you're wrong. NY and the Feds refused to share any of the certain overruns-the Feds offered low interest loans however, but not funding for a penny of cost overruns.
Posted on: 2014/1/28 14:18
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