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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
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I love the urban area argument too


Exactly. The "Just get over it" and "Just deal with it, this is how urban areas are" attitude pretty much negates any possibility of things improving, of creating a nicer, more civil place to live. A lot of people DO just give up and move to the suburbs, along with the businesses that employ and serve them, and our cities are left with a lot of people who can't support the local government that serves them. Look at Camden. Look at Trenton. It has gotten better in the last several years, with substantial reinvestment in our cities, Especially JC, but I remember how it was, with our older cities hemorrhaging jobs and population and the quality of life suffering as a result. I get the point that you can't expect to maintain a suburban lifestyle here, with minimal to no interaction with others that is beyond your control, but there is still a lot that can be done to get people to act in a civil manner towards others. I think I must have that "gentle soul" appearance that others have referenced as I get approached a lot. I even had to deal with an aggressive panhandler in Amsterdam, of all places, and they have a great social safety net and treatment programs.

Posted on: 2013/9/8 15:52

Edited by boilerplater on 2013/9/8 16:12:24
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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
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Be thankful the homeless aren't as aggressive and prevalent as they are in San Francisco.


Posted on: 2013/9/5 19:06
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Homelessness isn't an urban only problem...I was recently trailed outside of the Trader Joe's parking lot in Florham Park.

Begging will happen any place where they will get away with it. Jersey City has been one of those places, and it should not be.

Posted on: 2013/9/5 19:03
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heights wrote:
Don't you know it is dangerous to interact with strangers especially in a foreign land. Egypt is not a third world country they have valuable resources same as India. If these countries are as bad off as you say then their people should stay and rebuild it instead of making their millions elsewhere.


I think this is the first time I've heard that Egypt is NOT a thrid world country... What valuable resources do they have? Pyramids?!

You wouldn't move to another country if you could make 10 fold? I know of plenty of ex-Pat Americans who moved to other countries for money.

Posted on: 2013/9/5 17:34
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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
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dtjcview wrote:
I was in Cairo about 10 years ago. What struck me was that absolutely everyone stopped and gave something to street beggars. Everyone. Perhaps it was because the people in Cairo themselves are mostly very poor and know what it's like to have nothing. Or perhaps the culture is less judgmental. Idk - but it put me to shame as someone from a supposedly "developed" country.

Naive and ignorant in the same body, and I'm not talking about the homeless.


Do you have any experience of North Africa to share, other than your couch trolling perspective? At least CapnJon had real experience to share - and time & place may explain our different experiences. For example, I visited Cairo during Ramandan, and charity might have been viewed locally as an obligation at the time. At any rate the point wasn't simply about who was more charitable.

Don't you know it is dangerous to interact with strangers especially in a foreign land. Egypt is not a third world country they have valuable resources same as India. If these countries are as bad off as you say then their people should stay and rebuild it instead of making their millions elsewhere.

Posted on: 2013/9/5 16:28
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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
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I love the urban area argument too

There is crime - well you live in an urban area

There are homeless people harassing you - well you live in an urban area

There is dog poop - well you live in an urban area

There is litter and trash - well you live in an urban area

Why even have police or rules? We live, after all, in an urban area...

I would like to eradicate the issue of homelessness - not the homeless....there is a difference.

Posted on: 2013/9/5 15:49
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dtjcview wrote:
I was in Cairo about 10 years ago. What struck me was that absolutely everyone stopped and gave something to street beggars. Everyone. Perhaps it was because the people in Cairo themselves are mostly very poor and know what it's like to have nothing. Or perhaps the culture is less judgmental. Idk - but it put me to shame as someone from a supposedly "developed" country.

Naive and ignorant in the same body, and I'm not talking about the homeless.


Do you have any experience of North Africa to share, other than your couch trolling perspective? At least CapnJon had real experience to share - and time & place may explain our different experiences. For example, I visited Cairo during Ramandan, and charity might have been viewed locally as an obligation at the time. At any rate the point wasn't simply about who was more charitable.



Posted on: 2013/9/5 15:41
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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
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I was in Cairo about 10 years ago. What struck me was that absolutely everyone stopped and gave something to street beggars. Everyone. Perhaps it was because the people in Cairo themselves are mostly very poor and know what it's like to have nothing. Or perhaps the culture is less judgmental. Idk - but it put me to shame as someone from a supposedly "developed" country.

Naive and ignorant in the same body, and I'm not talking about the homeless.

Posted on: 2013/9/5 11:12
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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
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He's been in the neighborhood for years; he's loud but harmless. Remember, we live in a large urban area, and if you choose to live here, you choose to take the good with the bad. Get over it, or move to the burbs.

Posted on: 2013/9/5 3:15
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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
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The homeless, mentally challenged, poor and genuine beggars have been around since the dawn of time. Some communities and nations manage it well, and many don't. In NJ / JC / US we do a poor job at it and would rather ignore it or condemn them. If there was a vote to eradicate them from society, I would suspect a few JClisters would vote 'yes'.
I don't recall one student from all the schools I attended that they wanted to be homeless or on the streets begging.

Posted on: 2013/9/5 2:58
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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
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Wait a minute now. I thought you phony Liberals were compassionate. Why not let him sleep on your couch then.
Yea but not in my neighborhood liberals.

Posted on: 2013/9/5 2:44
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1 in 3 women is raped at least once in her lifetime. It's a fear, however irrational*, that looms over us in a way I don't think men can fully appreciate.


Just to gain some accuracy about rape statistics that are United States specific:

1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape).

17.7 million American women have been victims of attempted or completed rape.

9 of every 10 rape victims were female in 2003.

Lifetime rate of rape /attempted rape for women by race:

All women: 17.6%
White women: 17.7%
Black women: 18.8%
Asian Pacific Islander women: 6.8%
American Indian/Alaskan women: 34.1%
Mixed race women: 24.4%

Approximately 2/3 of assaults are committed by someone known to the victim - 73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger; 38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance; 28% are an intimate; 7% are a relative

54% of sexual assaults are not reported to the police
97% of rapists will never spend a day in jail

More than 50% of all rape/sexual assault incidents were reported by victims to have occurred within 1 mile of their home or at their home.

4 in 10 take place at the victim's home.
2 in 10 take place at the home of a friend, neighbor, or relative.
1 in 12 take place in a parking garage.

43% of rapes occur between 6:00pm and midnight.
24% occur between midnight and 6:00am.
The other 33% take place between 6:00am and 6:00pm.

The average age of a rapist is 31 years old. 52% are white.

In 1 in 3 sexual assaults, the perpetrator was intoxicated — 30% with alcohol, 4% with drugs.

Soure - RAINN

Posted on: 2013/9/4 23:31
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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
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Some people on JClist are a couple of dimes short of a dollar or have horse blinkers on when it comes to social behavior - I for one, side with the victim and was explaining why some beggars target certain 'soft targets'. They aren't going to harass a person that will confront them or call the cops on them - My mom always gets asked for money from beggars (she has the appearance of a gentle soul), however when she is with me, the beggars don't confront either of us.

The next time you're in NY or even DTJC (outside the PATH)watch the charity groups and donation collection people ... they too target or make an extra effort to weasel money out of certain people they deem as a 'soft target'.

Its not about blaming a victim its about 'market research' by beggars and charity / donation collection people.
Its like a smoker looking for a smoke .. they will target other smokers or where people gather for a smoke .. Its not a value statement / victim association of the smoker being asked for a smoke.

thatgirl might also appear to be a gentle soul for the homeless beggars to ask her - nothing personal and no reflection on her. Her option is to call the cops or ignore them, but she shouldn't have to alter her appearance to avoid beggars targeting her.

Posted on: 2013/9/4 22:57
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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
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I spent time in Cairo, and other countries in that region and saw the complete opposite - the classism (?) was SO blatant, and the street people, or the homeless, or the mentally challenged, or the adicts, or the people who lived (and worked) on the massive trash dump, or in the cemetary... were COMPLETELY ignored. Every North African / Arab / Persian / Middle Eastern dude I met (and yes, I am making a massive, sweeping generalization), treated anyone who was below them (even the slightest), poorly. The only help I saw being offered to the destitute / homeless / needy, came from western charities, mostly religious. It was an eye opening experience for me (in my first of several trips to North Africa and the Middle East)....

Posted on: 2013/9/4 19:25
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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
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dtjcview wrote:
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VA2015 wrote:
....
This means that if a homeless person is regularly harassing you or even stalking you, you're shit out of luck on the restraining order front.

Sometimes "only" blogging about it is the first step towards raising awareness, so that change can happen with enforcement, legislation etc. Clearly you were not aware of the limitations of restraining orders and now you are so I don't think this kind of "complaining" is so unproductive.


Not entirely true. If a perp is convicted of stalking, it automatically acts as a restraining order. The first step towards a conviction is to report the crime.

N.J. Stat. § 2C:12-10.1.Conviction for stalking, permanent restraining order. (2010)
a. A judgment of conviction for stalking shall operate as an application for a permanent restraining order limiting the contact of the defendant and the victim who was stalked.

http://www.victimsofcrime.org/our-pro ... -laws-by-state/new-jersey



You expect people to take out restraining orders against aggressive homeless people? Come on.


Nope. I expect people to report crimes from whatever source and let the law take it's course, pushing for better enforcement and prosecution if needed. This isn't an issue about the homeless IMO.


So then why did you ask if they took out a restraining order?

Posted on: 2013/9/4 19:09
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What most men will never understand is that sometimes just being a woman is enough to be targeted.

Millions of women walk around NYC and encounter homeless, drug addicts, etc I have never seen them react to the way people on here react to what is common in most cities HOMELESS PEOPLE, I think most on here are paranoid and fear people of color. IMO I think this thread is silly.


I was in Cairo about 10 years ago. What struck me was that absolutely everyone stopped and gave something to street beggars. Everyone. Perhaps it was because the people in Cairo themselves are mostly very poor and know what it's like to have nothing. Or perhaps the culture is less judgmental. Idk - but it put me to shame as someone from a supposedly "developed" country.


Because they are a lot less likely to use it for drugs or alcohol, and until the revolution, crime on the streets was practically unheard of.

There is a shelter on Grove Street (at least). The homeless leave because the shelter isn't going to tolerate their alcohol and drug abuse. Many of the homeless in the vicinity of the tunnel are particularly obviously abusing one of them.

I'm not sure why the substance abuse of others should be tolerated to the point that we are allowing aggression on the street.

Posted on: 2013/9/4 19:02
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dtjcview wrote:
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VA2015 wrote:
....
This means that if a homeless person is regularly harassing you or even stalking you, you're shit out of luck on the restraining order front.

Sometimes "only" blogging about it is the first step towards raising awareness, so that change can happen with enforcement, legislation etc. Clearly you were not aware of the limitations of restraining orders and now you are so I don't think this kind of "complaining" is so unproductive.


Not entirely true. If a perp is convicted of stalking, it automatically acts as a restraining order. The first step towards a conviction is to report the crime.

N.J. Stat. § 2C:12-10.1.Conviction for stalking, permanent restraining order. (2010)
a. A judgment of conviction for stalking shall operate as an application for a permanent restraining order limiting the contact of the defendant and the victim who was stalked.

http://www.victimsofcrime.org/our-pro ... -laws-by-state/new-jersey



You expect people to take out restraining orders against aggressive homeless people? Come on.


Nope. I expect people to report crimes from whatever source and let the law take it's course, pushing for better enforcement and prosecution if needed. This isn't an issue about the homeless IMO.

Posted on: 2013/9/4 18:28
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VA2015 wrote:
....
This means that if a homeless person is regularly harassing you or even stalking you, you're shit out of luck on the restraining order front.

Sometimes "only" blogging about it is the first step towards raising awareness, so that change can happen with enforcement, legislation etc. Clearly you were not aware of the limitations of restraining orders and now you are so I don't think this kind of "complaining" is so unproductive.


Not entirely true. If a perp is convicted of stalking, it automatically acts as a restraining order. The first step towards a conviction is to report the crime.

N.J. Stat. § 2C:12-10.1.Conviction for stalking, permanent restraining order. (2010)
a. A judgment of conviction for stalking shall operate as an application for a permanent restraining order limiting the contact of the defendant and the victim who was stalked.

http://www.victimsofcrime.org/our-pro ... -laws-by-state/new-jersey



You expect people to take out restraining orders against aggressive homeless people? Come on.

Posted on: 2013/9/4 18:17
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VA2015 wrote:
....
This means that if a homeless person is regularly harassing you or even stalking you, you're shit out of luck on the restraining order front.

Sometimes "only" blogging about it is the first step towards raising awareness, so that change can happen with enforcement, legislation etc. Clearly you were not aware of the limitations of restraining orders and now you are so I don't think this kind of "complaining" is so unproductive.


Not entirely true. If a perp is convicted of stalking, it automatically acts as a restraining order. The first step towards a conviction is to report the crime.

N.J. Stat. § 2C:12-10.1.Conviction for stalking, permanent restraining order. (2010)
a. A judgment of conviction for stalking shall operate as an application for a permanent restraining order limiting the contact of the defendant and the victim who was stalked.

http://www.victimsofcrime.org/our-pro ... -laws-by-state/new-jersey


...and I'd add. This isn't a problem about the homeless, however much you would like to label it as such. It's about a crime being committed. The fact the alleged perp is homeless is incidental IMO. Seems we haven't learnt much from the pograms of the past.

Posted on: 2013/9/4 18:13
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I predicted that jclisters would not side with the victim and even blame her and that is exactly what happened:


Exactly. Every woman I know has a story about being harassed on the streets--from obnoxious catcalls to physical assault. I had a friend who raised her arm to hail a cab and had her boob grabbed. I guess she shouldn't have had boobs.



Did she call the police? Take out a restraining order? Take action other than blogging about it?


Says someone who has clearly never tried to get a restraining order...in most states they are for primarily domestic violence situations. In NJ they can be taken out on:

-a spouse or former spouse;
-any present or former household member (if you are 18 or older or an emancipated minor);
-someone with whom you have a child in common or are pregnant and expecting a child with;
-someone you are dating or have dated.

This means that if a homeless person is regularly harassing you or even stalking you, you're shit out of luck on the restraining order front.

Sometimes "only" blogging about it is the first step towards raising awareness, so that change can happen with enforcement, legislation etc. Clearly you were not aware of the limitations of restraining orders and now you are so I don't think this kind of "complaining" is so unproductive.

Posted on: 2013/9/4 17:47
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I predicted that jclisters would not side with the victim and even blame her and that is exactly what happened:


Exactly. Every woman I know has a story about being harassed on the streets--from obnoxious catcalls to physical assault. I had a friend who raised her arm to hail a cab and had her boob grabbed. I guess she shouldn't have had boobs.



Did she call the police? Take out a restraining order? Take action other than blogging about it?


Quote:


thatgirl wrote:

I called the police.


Posted on: 2013/9/4 17:11
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I predicted that jclisters would not side with the victim and even blame her and that is exactly what happened:


Exactly. Every woman I know has a story about being harassed on the streets--from obnoxious catcalls to physical assault. I had a friend who raised her arm to hail a cab and had her boob grabbed. I guess she shouldn't have had boobs.



Did she call the police? Take out a restraining order? Take action other than blogging about it?

Posted on: 2013/9/4 17:08
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I predicted that jclisters would not side with the victim and even blame her and that is exactly what happened:


Exactly. Every woman I know has a story about being harassed on the streets--from obnoxious catcalls to physical assault. I had a friend who raised her arm to hail a cab and had her boob grabbed. I guess she shouldn't have had boobs.


Posted on: 2013/9/4 16:56
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If one of your female family members is stalked by, harassed, or assaulted by a homeless person, I'm sure all of you will have a different tone


The old "how would you like it if..." question.

If one of my family members was stalked, harassed or assaulted by anyone regardless of whether they were homeless or not, they would call the police immediately, and possibly pepper-spray the attacker, after dragging our dog off them. Point being, if you are assaulted or feel threatened by ANYONE, CALL THE POLICE, and use whatever means necessary to defend yourself.

While I empathize with the OP and others, posting your fears on JCList isn't exactly the best way to take action. Join your Neighborhood Association. Volunteer at Grace church.

Do something about it.

Posted on: 2013/9/4 16:52
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My performance as "guy pretending to be on phone avoiding eye contact w/ aggressive homeless guy," is getting some early Oscar buzz.

Posted on: 2013/9/4 16:05
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vanvorst wrote:
What most men will never understand is that sometimes just being a woman is enough to be targeted.

Millions of women walk around NYC and encounter homeless, drug addicts, etc I have never seen them react to the way people on here react to what is common in most cities HOMELESS PEOPLE, I think most on here are paranoid and fear people of color. IMO I think this thread is silly.


pretty much


I am not phased by homeless people and I am female. But that said I think it's sad to write off women who feel threatened by the homeless, particularly those who act erratically. 1 in 3 women is raped at least once in her lifetime. It's a fear, however irrational*, that looms over us in a way I don't think men can fully appreciate. Writing it off as "paranoia" or racism is just a convenient way of invalidating those experiences.

*irrational because a person you know is more likely to sexually assault you than a stranger


I predicted that jclisters would not side with the victim and even blame her and that is exactly what happened:

Quote:
thatgirl, you must look like a soft target to beggars.


Quote:
I think most on here are paranoid and fear people of color.


Quote:
pretty much


Quote:
Or perhaps the culture [in Cairo] is less judgmental.


If one of your female family members is stalked by, harassed, or assaulted by a homeless person, I'm sure all of you will have a different tone

Posted on: 2013/9/4 16:01
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vanvorst wrote:
What most men will never understand is that sometimes just being a woman is enough to be targeted.

Millions of women walk around NYC and encounter homeless, drug addicts, etc I have never seen them react to the way people on here react to what is common in most cities HOMELESS PEOPLE, I think most on here are paranoid and fear people of color. IMO I think this thread is silly.


pretty much


I am not phased by homeless people and I am female. But that said I think it's sad to write off women who feel threatened by the homeless, particularly those who act erratically. 1 in 3 women is raped at least once in her lifetime. It's a fear, however irrational*, that looms over us in a way I don't think men can fully appreciate. Writing it off as "paranoia" or racism is just a convenient way of invalidating those experiences.

*irrational because a person you know is more likely to sexually assault you than a stranger

Posted on: 2013/9/4 15:49
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user1111 wrote:
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vanvorst wrote:
What most men will never understand is that sometimes just being a woman is enough to be targeted.

Millions of women walk around NYC and encounter homeless, drug addicts, etc I have never seen them react to the way people on here react to what is common in most cities HOMELESS PEOPLE, I think most on here are paranoid and fear people of color. IMO I think this thread is silly.


I was in Cairo about 10 years ago. What struck me was that absolutely everyone stopped and gave something to street beggars. Everyone. Perhaps it was because the people in Cairo themselves are mostly very poor and know what it's like to have nothing. Or perhaps the culture is less judgmental. Idk - but it put me to shame as someone from a supposedly "developed" country.

Posted on: 2013/9/4 15:37
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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


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Quote:

user1111 wrote:
Quote:

vanvorst wrote:
What most men will never understand is that sometimes just being a woman is enough to be targeted.

Millions of women walk around NYC and encounter homeless, drug addicts, etc I have never seen them react to the way people on here react to what is common in most cities HOMELESS PEOPLE, I think most on here are paranoid and fear people of color. IMO I think this thread is silly.


pretty much

Posted on: 2013/9/4 15:13
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Re: Aggressive homeless man in downtown Jersey City
Home away from home
Home away from home


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12/26 15:30
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Quote:

vanvorst wrote:
What most men will never understand is that sometimes just being a woman is enough to be targeted.

Millions of women walk around NYC and encounter homeless, drug addicts, etc I have never seen them react to the way people on here react to what is common in most cities HOMELESS PEOPLE, I think most on here are paranoid and fear people of color. IMO I think this thread is silly.

Posted on: 2013/9/4 15:04
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