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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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NJ BIZ has a write up on The Taco Truck, the Hoboken based restaurant that started as a food truck.

http://www.njbiz.com/article/20130813 ... -food-truck-to-restaurant

Posted on: 2013/8/14 14:18
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
You can not micromanage a street of food trucks or one particular location - Regulation and Legislation has to be generic for the entire City or State


As is becoming a broken record, you have once again, produced a completely wrong statement. Zones exist. Zoned for business, zoned for residential. As has already been established, one can't just park a semi on the street overnight. It is patently easy to state that the trucks can only operate in certain areas.
However, as has been pointed out infinitely in here, it needs to be done at a reasonable level, not some of the absurd proposals, like "only in a parking lot" or "not within 1000 feet of an eatery" that some have mentioned.

Posted on: 2013/8/12 3:31
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Hmmm yes, lets see, which side has the government enacting regulations that hurts the other side. Why surely, it's the restaurants who are getting law upon law stuffed on top of it! Places ranging from Atlanta and DC to tiny Cranston, RI are having heaps of new regulations passed upon restaurant owners by those dastardly food truck owners who are clearly upending decades-old patronage with the promise of a taco

Oh wait, it's the other way around.

Clearly one's influences with the politicos is greater than the other. But why should you use common sense now? You certainly haven't in the dozens of other posts you've had in this thread, so why expect the change? By all means, continue to look like an absolute fool. Hint: everyone's laughing AT you, not WITH you.

PS: Here's a nice line I found upon my quick perusal of Google. Something to mull over while you ponder what lunacy to spew out next:
"Most of the complaints [about the trucks] seem to come from local food establishments that are in competition with them," says Jonathan Dalton, an environmental health specialist with the Southern Nevada Health District who handles food inspections. And he estimates roughly 80% of the complaints -- everything from servers not washing their hands to food not being properly stored -- prove to be unsubstantiated.

Posted on: 2013/8/12 3:23
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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You can not micromanage a street of food trucks or one particular location - Regulation and Legislation has to be generic for the entire City or State .. cory are you over 18 or under 18 ?

PS. "in your version" of the "buddy-buddy backroom deals" please provide the details, as I would also like to see these individuals exposed - my version was to highlight that YOUR viewpoint could be exploited by food truck vendors also.

Posted on: 2013/8/12 2:42
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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except in my version, this actually happens. once again, you are wrong (holy cow, what a shock!) and i am right (also a shock!)

also i've never seen a truck park on grove street. enlighten me, oh moron, which one does this?
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Quote:

corybraiterman wrote:

Because in numerous towns cities, existing businesses, often places with political connections like restaurants, are leaning on their buddy old-school politicians like Healy to support themselves at the expense of new businesses using bullsh!t excuses like what you've been parroting.

So congratulations on propping up buddy-buddy, under-the-table backroom politics. I'm sure you must be very proud of the way that business has been conducted here in hudson county for decades, because it was obviously done the proper way and never underhanded.


Because in numerous towns cities, new businesses, often places with political connections like food trucks, are leaning on their buddy old-school politicians like Healy to support themselves at the expense of existing businesses using bullsh!t excuses like what you've been parroting.

So congratulations on propping up buddy-buddy, under-the-table backroom politics. I'm sure you must be very proud of the way that business has been conducted here in hudson county for decades, because it was obviously done the proper way and never underhanded

PS We were talking about Grove Street not Grove Plaza

Posted on: 2013/8/12 2:13
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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corybraiterman wrote:

Because in numerous towns cities, existing businesses, often places with political connections like restaurants, are leaning on their buddy old-school politicians like Healy to support themselves at the expense of new businesses using bullsh!t excuses like what you've been parroting.

So congratulations on propping up buddy-buddy, under-the-table backroom politics. I'm sure you must be very proud of the way that business has been conducted here in hudson county for decades, because it was obviously done the proper way and never underhanded.


Because in numerous towns cities, new businesses, often places with political connections like food trucks, are leaning on their buddy old-school politicians like Healy to support themselves at the expense of existing businesses using bullsh!t excuses like what you've been parroting.

So congratulations on propping up buddy-buddy, under-the-table backroom politics. I'm sure you must be very proud of the way that business has been conducted here in hudson county for decades, because it was obviously done the proper way and never underhanded

PS We were talking about Grove Street not Grove Plaza

Posted on: 2013/8/12 1:27
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
Don't forget that there are other businesses on Grove or on that block that need parking turn-over


wrong yet again (who else is shocked by this?). there is no parking on grove plaza. the former krave truck (tacos? halal? i forget what it is now) parks in front of the path train entrance on marin.

Posted on: 2013/8/12 0:51
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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If my argument is without merit, then why are cities and towns throughout the US introducing legislation and regulations once food trucks swamp into central business districts?


Because in numerous towns cities, existing businesses, often places with political connections like restaurants, are leaning on their buddy old-school politicians like Healy to support themselves at the expense of new businesses using bullsh!t excuses like what you've been parroting.

So congratulations on propping up buddy-buddy, under-the-table backroom politics. I'm sure you must be very proud of the way that business has been conducted here in hudson county for decades, because it was obviously done the proper way and never underhanded.

Posted on: 2013/8/12 0:48
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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caj11 - Paragraph 2 of my last response answers some of your question - Don't forget that there are other businesses on Grove or on that block that need parking turn-over ... not just the business directly behind a truck.

There appears to be ambiguity here with this thread and possibilty of three points of view.

1. Free market - Every business for themselves - 'Sink or Swim'
2. Regulated - Coexistence
3. Banned altogether

I'm also all for public meetings that might take forever - Its democracy / free speech at its purist form and the need to hear view-points from all stakeholders to an ordinance change or creation is important.

Posted on: 2013/8/12 0:31
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Don't forget the Shrimp Trucks of Hawaii - we had a blast trying to sample each and every one on a recent visit to Oahu.

I don't think Fat-Ass gets around very much:

http://www.hawaiiforvisitors.com/oahu ... /kahuku-shrimp-trucks.htm

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SilveryJessica wrote:
Of COURSE food trucks are stakeholders in the community. Just because they're mobile doesn't mean they don't have a vested interest in the community. I think a lot of people on here have serious misconceptions of what kind of costs and what kind of businesses food truck operators have and are. They have every single cost any other business owner has, with the exception of some insurance and utility costs. They pay taxes, are licensed, have to dispose of their waste, pay for electricity and gas, pay employees, etc. Food trucks are a very important part of a developing economy. It allows a potential brick and mortar operator determine a good location BEFORE signing a lease, and develop a following IN ADVANCE. I just came from Manhattan and they are EVERYWHERE. They have Twitter accounts, they have fan bases, they host events, they are invited to other events, and many of them settle down in neighborhoods where they have developed relationships with the people and the community. It all boils down to product, and filling a void in the marketplace. If your food is bad, you won't stay in business, whether you're selling tacos from a truck or Wagyu burgers on the UES.

Cities ARE begging for food trucks. Look at the links I posted below. Boston. Chicago. Minneapolis. JUNEAU ALASKA. More than two trucks together creates excitement. Look at the Red Hook Ball Fields. That informal food truck gathering became the hottest foodie destination in Brooklyn for years. Cities all over America are embracing the food truck trend because it doesn't require the infrastructure of brick and mortar stores and lends itself well to lesser developed or underutilized downtowns. Why do you say things that are nonsensical or blatantly untrue when it is clear that people on here know more than you do about certain topics? Sometimes it is better to just say, "Oh, I was wrong, I guess" and move on instead of perpetuating misleading and outright wrong information.

http://www.vendingtimes.com/ME2/dirmo ... D58954B538EA97A40EEECDA9C

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/arti ... new-phenomena-for-foodies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jmZjj2y4w0

http://www.citypages.com/bestof/2013/ ... restaurant-trend-2779768/

http://stitchesndishes.com/2013/01/fo ... into-overdrive-in-boston/

http://juneauempire.com/neighbors/201 ... -food-trucks#.Uge4XZKsj0s



Posted on: 2013/8/12 0:11
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
I've never said food trucks are to be banned as some have implied - Obviously reading comprehension is difficult for some. I have wheeled the barrow of segregation, regulation and the need for off street parking hubs or land for them to operate from.

Everything I have read is that food trucks OFTEN (not always) enter into areas already established by bricks and mortar businesses, then flood the area and take-over the parking that adversely affect other businesses not related to food that require parking turn-over to operate. They also tend to gather together that totally obscure any business behind the wall of trucks.

Yes it hasn't happened yet in JC (flood of food trucks), but like other locations there seems to be a pattern of this occuring, thus the need for regulations before it happens; if it indeed does.





Maybe I don't get around much, but the only businesses I see even slightly obscured by food trucks in Jersey City are the Chase bank, Club H and Starbucks over by Grove Street - hardly competition or the types to be worried about losing business to a food truck (that Starbucks, the only one of those that serves any food, is always packed). Then there's a couple of food trucks that get dwarfed by the investment bank buildings over near the waterfront. Both of these are in places where there is little street parking to speak of.

Of course food trucks should be regulated to some degree, like any other food-type business would be, but sooner or later, the general public has to make up its own mind, and not be denied the choices.

Something I just gotta ask and other people have addressed that you have never answered - some of these brick and mortar restaurants used to be food trucks. Should they have been denied the opportunity to have food trucks? Because if they didn't have any success as a food truck, they might never have become a brick and mortar restaurant, competing with food trucks (doubtful) or otherwise.

Another question - are you one of those people who speaks up at city council meetings on every ordinance is discussed? Not that people should be denied the chance to participate in democracy but the same old people that speak at every city council meeting on every ordinance and turn a two-hour meeting into a four-hour meeting annoy the living hell out of me.

Posted on: 2013/8/11 22:44
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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I've never said food trucks are to be banned as some have implied - Obviously reading comprehension is difficult for some. I have wheeled the barrow of segregation, regulation and the need for off street parking hubs or land for them to operate from.

Everything I have read is that food trucks OFTEN (not always) enter into areas already established by bricks and mortar businesses, then flood the area and take-over the parking that adversely affect other businesses not related to food that require parking turn-over to operate. They also tend to gather together that totally obscure any business behind the wall of trucks.

Yes it hasn't happened yet in JC (flood of food trucks), but like other locations there seems to be a pattern of this occuring, thus the need for regulations before it happens; if it indeed does.




Posted on: 2013/8/11 22:18
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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If I'm outnumbered, then why are all the towns and cities that get swamped by food trucks introducing legislation and regulations to kerb their trading - Often its the State authorities (Sanitation, Health, Parking etc) that create the changes that once never existed ... but why if its all good - Cities would be begging for food trucks to trade in their business districts if there were no negative aspects to their presence and trading.


No one said it was "all" good. There are positive and negative aspects about food trucks just like anything else in the free market society.

But let me go back to the central issue here - if food trucks pose a serious threat to the brick and mortar restaurants they sit in front of sometimes, those restaurants must really suck balls and deserve to lose business to a food truck. So far, I haven't seen that happen with a single restaurant in Jersey City. But you are free to name an example.

The OX restaurant went out of business after a relatively short time of being open. But I highly doubt that was due to any food trucks. I think it was just a mix of taking forever to open while paying for overhead and thus having insufficient working capital (due to the insane amount of hoops one has to jump through to get ANY storefront business open in Jersey City - now that's something that needs some serious legislation), to being in a location that just didn't work for the kind of menu it had, and the miniscule amount of street parking nearby (with or without food trucks around).

As I said, you are free to name another restaurant that proves your point. I haven't seen any in Jersey City, but then again, I haven't been on every street either.

Posted on: 2013/8/11 20:23
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
If I'm outnumbered, then why are all the towns and cities that get swamped by food trucks introducing legislation and regulations to kerb their trading - Often its the State authorities (Sanitation, Health, Parking etc) that create the changes that once never existed ... but why if its all good - Cities would be begging for food trucks to trade in their business districts if there were no negative aspects to their presence and trading.


Why do elected officials ever do anything that is bad public policy and unpopular? Oh, that's right, money. Most local politicians have strong relationships with small business owners in the area: the politician needs money, the business owner needs influence. It works out that when business owners give politicians money, they gain influence. Even in the most above the board situations, a small business owner still has more influence than the average citizen. Its very easy to simply add attacks to the food trucks to the laundry list of issues small business people bring to politicians. Since its an easy issue for elected officials to appease small business owners on, it becomes an easy target, a quick win, made even easier with dopey shills like you.

Posted on: 2013/8/11 16:41
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Another glaring omission that food trucks are reknown for, is that they often or exclusively only take cash and offer no receipts - I'm sure the IRS would love to audit a few of them.


You are clearly an expert on this issue. Except that you obviously know nothing. Most food trucks accept credit cards.

Posted on: 2013/8/11 16:35
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
If I'm outnumbered, then why are all the towns and cities that get swamped by food trucks introducing legislation and regulations to kerb their trading - Often its the State authorities (Sanitation, Health, Parking etc) that create the changes that once never existed ... but why if its all good - Cities would be begging for food trucks to trade in their business districts if there were no negative aspects to their presence and trading.


You seem to think that the options are binary. We either have food trucks or restaurants - but not a mix of the two. Maybe authorities are stepping in to enact some order, but I don't get a sense that many communities are actually banishing them, which is what you're advocating. Food trucks have only become common in the last few years, so it's only natural that some regulations such as health and sanitation are just catching up. Finally, I think you've lived in JC long enough to know that legislation and regulations are often enacted not with the public interest in mind, but for those with the deepest pockets and greatest political connections. I can think of at least a couple of restaurant owners in JC who fit that bill. Food truck owners tend to be younger and lack that sort of clout.

Posted on: 2013/8/11 16:18
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Of COURSE food trucks are stakeholders in the community. Just because they're mobile doesn't mean they don't have a vested interest in the community. I think a lot of people on here have serious misconceptions of what kind of costs and what kind of businesses food truck operators have and are. They have every single cost any other business owner has, with the exception of some insurance and utility costs. They pay taxes, are licensed, have to dispose of their waste, pay for electricity and gas, pay employees, etc. Food trucks are a very important part of a developing economy. It allows a potential brick and mortar operator determine a good location BEFORE signing a lease, and develop a following IN ADVANCE. I just came from Manhattan and they are EVERYWHERE. They have Twitter accounts, they have fan bases, they host events, they are invited to other events, and many of them settle down in neighborhoods where they have developed relationships with the people and the community. It all boils down to product, and filling a void in the marketplace. If your food is bad, you won't stay in business, whether you're selling tacos from a truck or Wagyu burgers on the UES.

Cities ARE begging for food trucks. Look at the links I posted below. Boston. Chicago. Minneapolis. JUNEAU ALASKA. More than two trucks together creates excitement. Look at the Red Hook Ball Fields. That informal food truck gathering became the hottest foodie destination in Brooklyn for years. Cities all over America are embracing the food truck trend because it doesn't require the infrastructure of brick and mortar stores and lends itself well to lesser developed or underutilized downtowns. Why do you say things that are nonsensical or blatantly untrue when it is clear that people on here know more than you do about certain topics? Sometimes it is better to just say, "Oh, I was wrong, I guess" and move on instead of perpetuating misleading and outright wrong information.

http://www.vendingtimes.com/ME2/dirmo ... D58954B538EA97A40EEECDA9C

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/arti ... new-phenomena-for-foodies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jmZjj2y4w0

http://www.citypages.com/bestof/2013/ ... restaurant-trend-2779768/

http://stitchesndishes.com/2013/01/fo ... into-overdrive-in-boston/

http://juneauempire.com/neighbors/201 ... -food-trucks#.Uge4XZKsj0s



Posted on: 2013/8/11 16:15
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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If I'm outnumbered, then why are all the towns and cities that get swamped by food trucks introducing legislation and regulations to kerb their trading - Often its the State authorities (Sanitation, Health, Parking etc) that create the changes that once never existed ... but why if its all good - Cities would be begging for food trucks to trade in their business districts if there were no negative aspects to their presence and trading.

Posted on: 2013/8/11 15:52
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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So far we have only heard a handful of identities on JClist approving of them with many silent or believe there should be some for restrictions on them.


Silence doesn't mean people agree with you. Sometimes people just need a break from the idiotic logic that prevails on JC List. Or maybe people just don't believe that strongly in the issue one way or the other. The fact is, you're outnumbered on this topic.

We live in a free-market society. If you don't offer a product or service that people deem to be of good value, then no amount of protectionism by the government is going to save your business. Period. There are good food trucks and there are mediocre ones. Just like the brick-and-mortar establishments, the bad food trucks go out of business, too. The thing I like about food trucks is they allow a business owner to push the envelope and try a new idea. If someone 10 years ago had gone to the bank and asked for a loan to open a Korean taco restaurant, he would've been laughed out of the bank. The food truck helped prove that, yes, indeed there is a viable market for Korean tacos. Ditto the Kelvin Slush truck in NYC. Now those slushes are being sold in Whole Foods in NY and NJ, so I don't have to go chasing that blue truck all over the city. No, that's not taking any money away from a bricks-and-mortar place. I just go without the slushy if I can't find Kelvin.

Btw, new season of the Great Food Truck Race kicks off next Sunday at 9 p.m. on the Food Network.

Posted on: 2013/8/11 15:41
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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If my argument is without merit, then why are cities and towns throughout the US introducing legislation and regulations once food trucks swamp into central business districts?
Having done just a little research, the same argument for change and regulations are basically based on the same points I have put forward

So far we have only heard a handful of identities on JClist approving of them with many silent or believe there should be some for restrictions on them.

I read that some cities have legislated that food trucks can not operate longer then 1 hour without providing a restroom (toilet and hand basin).

Food truck vendors are their own worse enemy and as they get 'kicked-out' by regulations in one city, they quickly flood another without any regulations. Some food trucks vendors are commuting many miles to stay ahead of the regulations that follow them.

I still believe they need to start an association and either buy some land, build a toilet block and create a food truck hub OFF street or negotiate with a private car park operator or even at the Target car park in Newport, and create their own oasis and rent 2 toilet trailers

Posted on: 2013/8/11 14:54
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Another glaring omission that food trucks are reknown for, is that they often or exclusively only take cash and offer no receipts - I'm sure the IRS would love to audit a few of them.


I have worked for the IRS and the New Jersey Treasury Department, and believe me, they do.

The IRS also heavily audits brick-and-mortar restaurants that only take cash (typically the Chinese take-out places but there are many others), and just about any other cash-intensive business - check-cashing places, liquor stores, dry cleaners, casinos, donut shops - do I need to go on here? Why don't you mention those places also?

Your "glaring omission" about food trucks is meaningless. There are plenty of restaurants in Jersey City that only take cash. I have also seen food trucks that take credit cards.

You know, if you don't like the food trucks just don't eat at them. Every one of your arguments about them has fallen flat on its face.

Posted on: 2013/8/11 14:09
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what slippery slope?

Its a debate on the pro and cons of food trucks for which I don't mind, provided they are OFF public parking spots in often high density business locations that needs to be shared for all customers to ALL busineses. I do empathize with bricks and mortar establishments for which there is NO question they have much higher running costs which reflects on their meal costs

Another glaring omission that food trucks are reknown for, is that they often or exclusively only take cash and offer no receipts - I'm sure the IRS would love to audit a few of them.

Posted on: 2013/8/11 5:33
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Still doesn't detract that monopolizing the parking has a detrimental effect on all businesses - Be a fly on the wall and watch how the truck vendors use every tactic to gain a parking spot without the slightest concern for other businesses - Imagine if a few other businesses rallied around to occupy all the parking spots away from the trucks with the same tactics they use .... it would end up with parking rage and make the nightly news and papers.



Also, yet another slippery slope argument that simply doesn't happen. In fact, the Grove St. Plaza was a popular spot for the trucks - a spot where there isn't any parking for cars to begin with.

Shockingly, you're wrong yet again. Keep trying, perhaps one of these posts you'll actually come up with something accurate. Set a low bar, like the color of the sky, or the current time.

Posted on: 2013/8/11 1:25
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
This food truck vs bricks and mortar debate reminds me of gorilla warfare tactics

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Posted on: 2013/8/11 1:17
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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cory what goal posts ? Have a cup of coffee (maybe organic tea would be better for you) and chill out with some rainforest / wildlife music.

sepecat asked a question about NYC and I provided an answer for NYC - Manhattan as a whole identity.

This food truck vs bricks and mortar debate reminds me of gorilla warfare tactics with brick and mortar establishments having nowhere to retreat while they are being engulfed.

Still doesn't detract that monopolizing the parking has a detrimental effect on all businesses - Be a fly on the wall and watch how the truck vendors use every tactic to gain a parking spot without the slightest concern for other businesses - Imagine if a few other businesses rallied around to occupy all the parking spots away from the trucks with the same tactics they use .... it would end up with parking rage and make the nightly news and papers.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2 ... -mark-topping-8-3-million

Posted on: 2013/8/11 1:06
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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fat-ass-bike wrote:

NYC - Manhattan has a population of 8 Million which swells to about 12+ million, JC barely has a 6 digit population with many also making their way across the river.


Actually Manhattan has a population of 1.6 million, but since when have you let facts stop you once in this thread before?

Also, since you're moving the goal posts, if the only issue is a lack of population, why simply aren't mobile food vendors permitted, but in a smaller percentage?

(spoiler answer, there already is a smaller percentage of 'em)

Posted on: 2013/8/11 0:15
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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sepecat wrote:
If NYC can sustain street cart vendors, why is Jersey City so stuck up about them?


NYC - Manhattan has a population of 8 Million which swells to about 12+ million, JC barely has a 6 digit population with many also making their way across the river.

Posted on: 2013/8/10 23:35
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If NYC can sustain street cart vendors, why is Jersey City so stuck up about them?

Posted on: 2013/8/10 15:17
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
Governments always regulate businesses....

I'm not objecting to regulation. I'm objecting to the specific idea that the government should pick winners and losers.

Abatements don't pick winners. In that case, the city is giving a tax break in order to encourage development -- and yes, small buildings also got abatements. If they aren't assigned fairly, the problem isn't in the idea of an abatement, it's in how they are managed.


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The food trucks dig their own graves by swamping business districts and taking desperately needed parking away from others businesses too.

Whatever dude. I'm not aware of any indication that the trucks are violating any parking laws.

Nor do I care if a restaurant that isn't up to snuff loses a few bucks because the competition is right down the street. If you don't like the idea of competition, don't run a restaurant.

Posted on: 2013/8/9 19:53
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The Taco Truck, like the Krave Truck, opened a brick and mortar store. Actually, Taco Truck has started operating a brick and mortar empire, a flagship opening in Morristown this month, and another franchised truck in Boston. Now that's job creation.

Posted on: 2013/8/9 17:27
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