David Kirby:
Government Concedes Vaccine-Autism Case in Federal Court - Now What?

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-k ... ncedes-vacci_b_88323.html

Sorry to load up this thread, but someone asked...

The info is on the web, I know now someone is gonna ask for the source?

Type the name of the vaccines as listed above with the word "description" after and you will get a list of the ingidients or be directed to a page that has them.

Some have links to the unfamiliar terms.

M-M-R* II (Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Virus Vaccine Live) is a live virus vaccine for vaccination against measles (rubeola), mumps and rubella (German measles).

M-M-R II is a sterile lyophilized preparation of (1) ATTENUVAX* (Measles Virus Vaccine Live), a more attenuated line of measles virus, derived from Enders attenuated Edmonston strain and propagated in chick embryo cell culture; (2) MUMPSVAX* (Mumps Virus Vaccine Live), the Jeryl Lynn** (B level) strain of mumps virus propagated in chick embryo cell culture; and (3) MERUVAX* II (Rubella Virus Vaccine Live), the Wistar RA 27/3 strain of live attenuated rubella virus propagated in WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts.1,2

The growth medium for measles and mumps is Medium 199 (a buffered salt solution containing vitamins and amino acids and supplemented with fetal bovine serum) containing SPGA (sucrose, phosphate, glutamate, and human albumin) as stabilizer and neomycin.

The growth medium for rubella is Minimum Essential Medium (MEM) [a buffered salt solution containing vitamins and amino acids and supplemented with fetal bovine serum] containing human serum albumin and neomycin. Sorbitol and hydrolyzed gelatin stabilizer are added to the individual virus harvests.

The cells, virus pools, fetal bovine serum, and human albumin are all screened for the absence of adventitious agents. Human albumin is processed using the Cohn cold ethanol fractionation procedure.

The reconstituted vaccine is for subcutaneous administration. Each 0.5 mL dose contains not less than 1,000 TCID50 (tissue culture infectious doses) of measles virus; 20,000 TCID50 of mumps virus; and 1,000 TCID50 of rubella virus. Each dose of the vaccine is calculated to contain sorbitol (14.5 mg), sodium phosphate, sucrose (1.9 mg), sodium chloride, hydrolyzed gelatin (14.5 mg), human albumin (0.3 mg), fetal bovine serum (< 1 ppm), other buffer and media ingredients and approximately 25 mcg of neomycin. The product contains no preservative.

Before reconstitution, the lyophilized vaccine is a light yellow compact crystalline plug. M-M-R II, when reconstituted as directed, is clear yellow.

VARIVAX(R) - (Varicella Virus Vaccine Live (Oka/Merck))

Description

VARIVAX(R) (Varicella Virus Vaccine Live (Oka/Merck)) is a preparation of the Oka/Merck strain of live, attenuated varicella virus. The virus was initially obtained from a child with natural varicella, then introduced into human embryonic lung cell cultures, adapted to and propagated in embryonic guinea pig cell cultures and finally propagated in human diploid cell cultures (WI-38). Further passage of the virus for varicella vaccine was performed at Merck Research Laboratories (MRL) in human diploid cell cultures (MRC-5) that were free of adventitious agents. This live, attenuated varicella vaccine is a lyophilized preparation containing sucrose, phosphate, glutamate, and processed gelatin as stabilizers.

VARIVAX, when reconstituted as directed, is a sterile preparation for subcutaneous administration. Each 0.5 mL dose contains the following: a minimum of 1350 PFU (plaque forming units) of Oka/Merck varicella virus when reconstituted and stored at room temperature for 30 minutes, approximately 25 mg of sucrose, 12.5 mg hydrolyzed gelatin, 3.2 mg sodium chloride, 0.5 mg monosodium L-glutamate, 0.45 mg of sodium phosphate dibasic, 0.08 mg of potassium phosphate monobasic, 0.08 mg of potassium chloride; residual components of MRC-5 cells including DNA and protein; and trace quantities of sodium phosphate monobasic, EDTA, neomycin, and fetal bovine serum. The product contains no preservative.

To maintain potency, the lyophilized vaccine must be kept frozen at an average temperature of -15 degrees C (+5 degrees F) or colder and must be used before the expiration date (see HOW SUPPLIED, Stability and Storage). Storage in any freezer (e.g., chest, frost-free) that reliably maintains an average temperature of -15 degrees C (+5 degrees F) or colder and has a separate sealed freezer door is acceptable.

ActHIB?
Haemophilus b Conjugate Vaccine
(Tetanus Toxoid Conjugate)

DESCRIPTION
Caution: Federal (USA) law prohibits dispensing without prescription.

NOTE: Haemophilus b Conjugate Vaccine (Tetanus Toxoid Conjugate) - ActHIB? is identical to Haemophilus b Conjugate Vaccine (Tetanus Toxoid Conjugate) - OmniHIB? (distributed by SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals); and is manufactured by Pasteur M?rieux S?rums Vaccins S.A.

ActHIB?, Haemophilus b Conjugate Vaccine (Tetanus Toxoid Conjugate), produced by Aventis Pasteur SA, is a sterile, lyophilized powder which is reconstituted at the time of use with either saline diluent (0.4% Sodium Chloride) or Aventis Pasteur Inc. (AvP) Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and Pertussis Vaccine Adsorbed (whole-cell pertussis vaccine D.P. or Tripedia?, AvP Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and Acellular Pertussis Vaccine Adsorbed (DTaP) (when reconstituted known as TriHIBitTM) for intramuscular use only. The vaccine consists of the Haemophilus b capsular polysaccharide (polyribosyl- ribitol- phosphate, PRP), a high molecular weight polymer prepared from the Haemophilus influenzae type b strain 1482 grown in a semi-synthetic medium, covalently bound to tetanus toxoid.1 The lyophilized ActHIB? powder and saline diluent contain no preservative. The tetanus toxoid is prepared by extraction, ammonium sulfate purification, and formalin inactivation of the toxin from cultures of Clostridium tetani (Harvard strain) grown in a modified Mueller and Miller medium.2 The toxoid is filter sterilized prior to the conjugation process. Potency of ActHIB? is specified on each lot by limits on the content of PRP polysaccharide and protein in each dose and the proportion of polysaccharide and protein in the vaccine which is characterized as high molecular weight conjugate.

When ActHIB? is reconstituted with saline diluent, each single dose of 0.5 mL is formulated to contain 10 ?g of purified capsular polysaccharide conjugated to 24 ?g of inactivated tetanus toxoid, and 8.5% of sucrose.

When ActHIB? is combined with AvP DTP vaccine by reconstitution, each single dose (0.5 mL) is formulated to contain 10 ?g of purified capsular polysaccharide conjugated to 24 ?g of inactivated tetanus toxoid 8.5% of sucrose 6.7 Lf of diphtheria toxoid, 5 Lf of tetanus toxoid, and an estimate of 4 protective units of pertussis vaccine. Thimerosal (mercury derivative) 1:10,000 is added as a preservative to AvP DTP vaccine. (Refer to product insert for AvP whole-cell DTP.)

When ActHIB? is combined with Tripedia? (TriHIBitTM) by reconstitution for booster dose, each single dose (0.5 mL) is formulated to contain 10 ?g of purified capsular polysaccharide conjugated to 24 ?g of inactivated tetanus toxoid, 8.5% of sucrose, 6.7 Lf of diphtheria toxoid, 5 Lf of tetanus toxoid and 46.8 ?g of pertussis antigens. Thimerosal (mercury derivative) 1:10,000 is added as a preservative to Tripedia?. (Refer to product insert for Tripedia?.)

The reconstituted vaccine, using saline diluent, appears clear and colorless. The reconstituted vaccine, using AvP DTP vaccine, appears whitish in color. TriHIBitTM, the reconstituted vaccine, using Tripedia? is a homogenous white suspension.

PRESCRIBING INFORMATION
PEDIARIX?
[Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and Acellular Pertussis Adsorbed,
Hepatitis B (Recombinant) and Inactivated Poliovirus Vaccine Combined]
DESCRIPTION
PEDIARIX? [Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and Acellular Pertussis Adsorbed, Hepatitis B
(Recombinant) and Inactivated Poliovirus Vaccine Combined] is a noninfectious, sterile,
multivalent vaccine for intramuscular administration manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline
Biologicals. It contains diphtheria and tetanus toxoids, 3 pertussis antigens (inactivated pertussis
toxin [PT] and formaldehyde-treated filamentous hemagglutinin [FHA] and pertactin
[69 kiloDalton outer membrane protein]), hepatitis B surface antigen, plus poliovirus Type 1
(Mahoney), Type 2 (MEF-1), and Type 3 (Saukett). The diphtheria toxoid, tetanus toxoid, and
pertussis antigens are the same as those in INFANRIX? (Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and
Acellular Pertussis Vaccine Adsorbed). The hepatitis B surface antigen is the same as that in
ENGERIX-B? [Hepatitis B Vaccine (Recombinant)].
The diphtheria toxin is produced by growing Corynebacterium diphtheriae in Fenton medium
containing a bovine extract. Tetanus toxin is produced by growing Clostridium tetani in a
modified Latham medium derived from bovine casein. The bovine materials used in these
extracts are sourced from countries which the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA)
has determined neither have nor are at risk of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE). Both
toxins are detoxified with formaldehyde, concentrated by ultrafiltration, and purified by
precipitation, dialysis, and sterile filtration.
The 3 acellular pertussis antigens (PT, FHA, and pertactin) are isolated from Bordetella
pertussis culture grown in modified Stainer-Scholte liquid medium. PT and FHA are isolated
from the fermentation broth; pertactin is extracted from the cells by heat treatment and
flocculation. The antigens are purified in successive chromatographic and precipitation steps. PT
is detoxified using glutaraldehyde and formaldehyde. FHA and pertactin are treated with
formaldehyde.
The hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg) is obtained by culturing genetically engineered
Saccharomyces cerevisiae cells, which carry the surface antigen gene of the hepatitis B virus, in
synthetic medium. The surface antigen expressed in the S. cerevisiae cells is purified by several
physiochemical steps, which include precipitation, ion exchange chromatography, and
ultrafiltration.
The inactivated poliovirus component of PEDIARIX is an enhanced potency component.
Each of the 3 strains of poliovirus is individually grown in VERO cells, a continuous line of
monkey kidney cells, cultivated on microcarriers. Calf serum and lactalbumin hydrolysate are
used during VERO cell culture and/or virus culture. Calf serum is sourced from countries the
USDA has determined neither have nor are at risk of BSE. After clarification, each viral
suspension is purified by ultrafiltration, diafiltration, and successive chromatographic steps, and
1
inactivated with formaldehyde. The 3 purified viral strains are then pooled to form a trivalent
concentrate.
The diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis antigens are individually adsorbed onto aluminum
hydroxide; hepatitis B component is adsorbed onto aluminum phosphate. All antigens are then
diluted and combined to produce the final formulated vaccine. Each 0.5-mL dose is formulated
to contain 25 Lf of diphtheria toxoid, 10 Lf of tetanus toxoid, 25 mcg of inactivated PT, 25 mcg
of FHA, 8 mcg of pertactin, 10 mcg of HBsAg, 40 D-antigen Units (DU) of Type 1 poliovirus,
8 DU of Type 2 poliovirus, and 32 DU of Type 3 poliovirus.
Diphtheria and tetanus toxoid potency is determined by measuring the amount of neutralizing
antitoxin in previously immunized guinea pigs. The potency of the acellular pertussis
components (inactivated PT and formaldehyde-treated FHA and pertactin) is determined by
enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) on sera from previously immunized mice.
Potency of the hepatitis B component is established by HBsAg ELISA. The potency of the
inactivated poliovirus component is determined by using the D-antigen ELISA and by a
poliovirus neutralizing cell culture assay on sera from previously immunized rats.
Each 0.5-mL dose also contains 4.5 mg of NaCl and aluminum adjuvant (not more than
0.85 mg aluminum by assay). Each dose also contains ≤100 mcg of residual formaldehyde and
≤100 mcg of polysorbate 80 (Tween 80). Neomycin sulfate and polymyxin B are used in the
polio vaccine manufacturing process and may be present in the final vaccine at ≤0.05 ng
neomycin and ≤0.01 ng polymyxin B per dose. The procedures used to manufacture the HBsAg
antigen result in a product that contains ≤5% yeast protein.
PEDIARIX is formulated without preservatives.
The vaccine must be well shaken before administration to obtain a homogeneous, turbid,
white suspension.
Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids Adsorbed Combined Bulk (For Further Manufacturing Use)
is manufactured by Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics GmbH & Co. KG, Marburg, Germany.
The acellular pertussis antigens, the hepatitis B surface antigen, and the inactivated poliovirus
antigens are manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals, Rixensart, Belgium. Formulation,
filling, testing, packaging, and release of the vaccine are performed by GlaxoSmithKline
Biologicals.

"But really, really do your research before you inject formaldehyde, rat poison, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, monkey, feces, and other neurotoxins into your body... I had to beg for the ingredient list. Sure enough, they were on the list. I highlighted them, brought the pamphlet/list back, and have never been asked about them again. "

Peanut - please do us all the public service of posting a picture of the ingredient list showing "aborted fetus tisse, monkey, and feces". I'd really like to see that.

Had a hard time posting this on another thread, but it is related...

I think you should investigate vaccines more. Most if not all board members stating vaccines are safe have large amounts of stock in the companies producing them and have much to gain.
Yes, there is a time and place for some...
But really, really do your research before you inject formaldehyde, rat poison, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, monkey, feces, and other neurotoxins into your body.
Statistically, you are more likely to obtain the disease from the vaccination or complication there of. Also studies show that most of the disease we are being inoculated for was on the decline before vaccinations were introduced.
Like I said, perhaps there is a time and a place. But be an informed consumer. Don't take your doctors word as truth either, they too have $$$ to gain. My doctor promised emphatically there were none of the listed ingredients above in vaccinations he wanted to give my child. I had to beg for the ingredient list. Sure enough, they were on the list. I highlighted them, brought the pamphlet/list back, and have never been asked about them again.
The drug companies now say they do not use mercury in the manufacturing of vaccines anymore. So did they recall all the vaccines previously made. Nope! They are dispensing them to the public until they run out. They haven't said what is being used in it's place. Is it possibly worse? Unless an ingredient is considered an "active" ingredient, It does not have to be listed.
Many people that have done research and exposed the faults with vaccines have had their license revolked and laboratories taken away. Hmmm. I find that extremely suspicious.
Please do your research and truly know what you are putting into your body. Learn how your immune system works. Learn how vaccines work/don't work. You know my opinion.
I'm sure I'm gonna "get it" for this post. I know my beliefs are the minority, but I had to say something.
But ask yourself why you believe in vaccinations. Is it because it's what is familiar, comfortable, what you grew up believing, what your parents told you to do, what your doctor told you to do? Or is it because you have investigated them with the same effort (or more) you would use when buying a car? How many people have actually taken the time to educate themselves on this? Pro or Con. At least it would be an informed decision and not a decision based on fear. How real is the fear? Many of the outbreaks since the introduction of vaccinations were caused by the vaccinations. Go figure? You've gotta look deep for this information because the CDC and drug companies do not want the public to now this.
If you do vaccinate, do not get the "cocktail" vaccinations. They have not been studied for safety!!!!!!!! They have only been studied individually. And do not vaccinate if your immune system is compromised. (Cold, fever, other illness)
If you have a newborn and are vaccinating. You should know that your child is a guinea pig, no vaccines have ever been tested for safety on infants. All research is for children ages five and six. That's the earliest age study. Since 1983 the number of vaccines the CDC recommends for our children has TRIPLED!
Really, are they ALL necessary?

-----More vaccine news-----

WASHINGTON - GlaxoSmithKline Plc's rotavirus vaccine is associated with increased pneumonia-related deaths and other adverse reactions, U.S. regulatory staff said in documents posted on Friday.

The review comes ahead of a Food and Drug Administration advisory meeting next Wednesday to consider approval of the oral vaccine to prevent the most common cause of severe diarrhea and dehydration among infants and young children in the world.

FDA staff said its analysis of 11 studies revealed that in the largest trial, there was a statistically significant increase in deaths related to pneumonia compared with placebo, documents posted on the FDA's Web site said.

That study, which enrolled about 63,000 children, also found an increase in convulsions in children given the drug, named Rotarix. Another study found an increased rate of bronchitis, compared with placebo.

In a conclusion section, the FDA documents noted the pneumonia-related deaths and convulsions, but did not appear to make a recommendation to the advisory panel.

That expert panel will weigh the staff review, but makes its own recommendation, which is typically followed by the FDA.

http://search.us.reuters.com/rsearch/ ... WTmodLoc=ussrch-top-quote

NJ first state to require flu shots for tots
by The Associated Press
Friday December 14, 2007, 10:34 AM

Jerry McCrea/The Star-Ledger

New Jersey is the first state to require flu shots for preschoolers.

The state's health commissioner today approved amendments to the state's immunization rules for children.

Starting in September, all children attending preschool or licensed day care centers will be required to get an annual flu shot.

No other state requires that.

New Jersey also will require preschoolers to get a pneumococcal vaccine and sixth-graders to get a whooping cough booster shot and a meningitis shot.

The commissioner's decision comes after a health advisory board on Monday backed the new vaccine mandates over the opposition of some parents.

I wonder if Merck & Co. were a major supporter and donator to a political party!

Insurance claim and major contract would mean a great christmas bonus for executive staff!

My, my, my, this is timely...

Merck Recalls Children's Meningitis Vaccine, CDC Says

By Justin Blum and Beth Jinks

Dec. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Merck & Co. recalled 1.2 million doses of a childhood vaccine against pneumonia and meningitis after manufacturing equipment was found to be contaminated.

None of the vaccine was found to be contaminated and there were no reports of injuries, U.S. health officials said in a conference call today.

The recall affects Haemophilus influenzae type b vaccine, or Hib, said Mark Feinberg, vice president of medical affairs and policy for Merck vaccines, by telephone today. The company hasn't identified any contaminated vaccines, Feinberg said. About 14 million doses are used in the U.S. each year, health officials said.

``This is not a health-threatening situation in the short run, but it is an inconvenience,'' said Julie Gerberding, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in the conference call.

Sanofi-Aventis SA makes a similar vaccine, and Gerberding's agency will work with the French drugmaker on increasing its production. The U.S. is ``confident'' that than be done, said Anne Schuchat, director of immunization programs at the centers.

``We do expect there to be a shortage in terms of a mismatch between supply and demand,'' she said. ``The extent of that is what we're trying to sort out.''

Pennsylvania Plant

More than 28 million doses of the vaccine have been sold in the U.S. over more than 15 years, according to Merck's Web site. Infections with the Hib bacteria lead to about 386,000 deaths each year, mainly children younger than 5 years old, according to the World Health Organization.

A bacterium called bacillus cereus, associated with food poisoning, was found on some equipment used to make the vaccine at Merck's plant in West Point, Pennsylvania, Feinberg said.

Merck said it may take as long as a year to resolve the manufacturing problems at the plant and resume production.

Merck rose to $59.90 in extended trading. Earlier it fell 68 cents, or 1.1 percent, to $59.72 in regular New York Stock Exchange composite trading.

To contact the reporters on this story: Beth Jinks in New York at bjinks1@bloomberg.net ; Justin Blum in Washington at jblum4@bloomberg.net .

Last Updated: December 12, 2007 17:46 EST

Wherever you stand on this issue. I heard a pretty good discussion on NPR this morning about it. It was the Leonard Lopaid ( bad spelling) show. If you're interested, NPR often repeats the shows.

This vaccine is supposed to guard against regular, predictable, human flu, the one that usually kills older people and children.
The 1918 pandemic was provoked by a special kind of virus, similar to the H1N5 strain one of today's bird flu, to which there is no vaccine yet.
30 dollars is a lot of money. I know doctors rather prefer numbers with 3 digits, but for flu vaccine and tap water prices should be lower.

Quote:

I don't think I've ever had a flu shot, purely because I'm lazy, not even all that cheap. But, if there ever was a 1918-like killer flu, that flu actually killed working age people much more than it killed older people.

That might be because the older people had acquired immunity during an earlier epidemic, but it might be that older people did better because they were more likely to stay and home rest once they got the flu.

Re: the original question

The problem with mandatory vaccination campaigns in our kind of society is that it's tricky quantifying the risks and impossible quantifying the benefits in a way that can satisfy skeptics.

JSalt could be right, and maybe, say, measles vaccines are continuing to keep measles at an acceptable level, but it could be that measles would stay at the same level, with less risk, if we ended measles vaccination requirements. It's hard to know for sure, because it's ethically impossible to test the hypothesis by keeping some randomly selected kids from getting measles shots. At some point, you just have to roll the dice or go with your gut.

My gut says that I'd rather risk the small chance that my daughter might react badly to the vaccine than to expose her to getting measles or diphtheria, but those side effect sheets you get with the shots are pretty scary.

You might know that the flu vaccine is made against a few types of flu virus, the ones that WHO expects to be more frequent in the next winter. I can't see how can you expect anything in NJ, where people come from everywhere in the world. There are chances that the NJ government is not acting honestly.
Anyway, I wanted to delve into the strong resemblance of USA and West Africa. (Both think metric system and vaccination are weapons of the Catholic or Jewish or Communist conspiracy, but are less suspicious about accumulating debts.) Let's just forget about it.
I had a good laugh when an employer sent me a questionnaire about the reasons why I wouldn't have a flu vaccine. Most reasons seemed absurd - and the least absurd of them was religion. Fear, "spiritual beliefs", all PC crap was there, as if the employee was willing to make the Pope issue a communique and let us know that vaccines are not Satan's work.
I had my reason: it costed 30 dollars, an absurd amount for something that couldn't be more efficient than travelling with #1 bus and was supposed to protect not me personally, as much as the old people I was working with. But "money" was not one of the given options. However, it was probably written down by so many people, that the vaccine was offered for free next autumn. I haven't heard from the Pope, so money has to be the main reason given by my colleagues.

Quote:

Maybe one thing that's happening here is that you have a really informed, nuanced view about all of this (not "all vaccines -- bad!!!" but "we should be careful when mandating vaccines, and careful balancing the risks versus the hoped for benefits"). Probably you and JSalt would find that you're on the same page, or very close, if you were in the same conference room and had the same data and same trustworthy experts to talk to. I think the opposition to HPV and chickenpox requirements is pretty reasonable, for example.

But a lot of us here view probably are thinking more about people we know who don't use any vaccinations.

Even though I vaccinate, I'd probably send my kid to a "vaccines not required" school, if it were a good school, but I bet I'd freak worry a lot during a bad flu season.

And there is plenty of evidence that shows those diseases were already declining rapidly with knowledge of sanitization and proper medicine before the vaccines were introduced. Europe without the vaccines declined at the same rate as the United States.

I think you are losing sight of the fact that no one is debating that some of these diseases are dangerous. But once again, to use one specific instance to throw a blank statement on how important it is to vaccinate is not a logical argument.

How about we talk about the chicken pox vaccine... let's talk about that. Deadly disease? Hhhmmm? Ok, so we know that vaccines don't protect everyone. We know that some people aren't protected by them, right? Ok, so here is a disease harmless in childhood, but we give people a vaccine mostly wiping it out even though we don't know if it will protect our children in adulthood when if contracted as an adult this disease has devastating effects. Lives are lost and reproductive organs crippled. Is this fair? How come even though I don't vaccinate, my kids could be devastated by the fact that the state mandates this vaccine?

Once again, don't assume that all these vaccines, nor their related diseases, are all devastating. Please don't insult my intelligence with these little stories. So I disagree with you on who has lost sight.

Sincerely,

A parent not from Indiana, who does not plan on exposing my children to any diseases and then happily sending them off to school to start an epidemic.


Quote:

https://www.justice.org/pressroom/vaccinesafety/news.aspx

The News & Observer (Raleigh, NC):

Even more sweeping is a provision empowering the new agency to shield from any legal action those producing vaccines, drugs, medical equipment or other products turned out to combat pandemics or bioterrorism. Such a broad exemption from liability is hardly justified on the record. A study reported by the Journal of the American Medical Association found, for example, that there had been only 10 lawsuits in 20 years over flu vaccines. Drug companies don't get out of the vaccine business because of liability, the study's authors said, but because of low profit margins and unpredictable demand. These are two factors that clearly should be more fully dealt with in any legislation to spur the production of vaccines, for instance, for an avian-flu pandemic.? [December 16, 2005]

this thread is starting to scare the crap out of me

Quote:

Under normal circumstances, obviously, you're right.

If there really were a scary outbreak on the level of the SARS outbreak in Canada, maybe it would be possible to at least enforce the "stay home" rule well enough to control the epidemic.

Even if the "stay home" rule weren't perfect, maybe that, coupled with some kind of financial aid program for the parents who stay home, could keep a scary outbreak from turning into a genuine epidemic.

It seems to me that doctors should get together and figure out what kind of rules would apply to what outbreaks. Maybe there wouldn't be anything stay home program at all for a normal flu or strep outbreak, but, if the kind of flu that infects everyone and kills 10 percent of the people who get it appeared, maybe there would be some kind of hardcore kid quarantine program.

If that kind of killer outbreak happened, public hysteria would help with kid quarantine enforcement, because people would be terrified.

My understanding is that, if killer flu surface, we'd all live in a state of quarantine for months, and maybe that would help with the stay home effort (although it might not be so great for the economy, or for food distribution).

That wouldn't solve anything though - most illegal immigrant workers make so little money that it's unlikely they'd miss a day of work because of a sick kid. Hell, I know American citizens who send their kids to school sick or come to work sick themselves. Not to mention that you might not realize the seriousness of the disease until it's already been spread.

Quote:

I guess the question here is not so much whether vaccinations make sense as whether the government has a right to make you give your child a treatment appears to be good for the community but could be harmful to that specific child.

I doubt mercury in vaccines causes autism or any other problems, but some children certainly react badly to vaccines, mercury or no mercury.

In New Jersey, the compromise is that you can decide not to vaccinate your child, but (unless you have an acceptable excuse) you can't send that unvaccinated child to school. You have to homeschool.

That compromise is good, because it protects immunized children who have failed to develop proper immunity (and children who can't be immunized for clear-cut medical reasons), but it's bad because it keeps nice, normal children out of school just because they aren't immunized.

Maybe a way to improve that compromise would be to permit parents who oppose immunization to set up private schools specifically for families that oppose immunization. That way, parents who consciously oppose immunization (or specific vaccines) could send their children to school, but parents who support immunization or have no opinion about the topic could send their children to schools in which most children have had their shots.

Quote:

My boss is great and would let me work from home, but the FMLA doesn't apply to very small employers, it doesn't apply to short but severe illnesses, and, of course, even if it does somehow apply to the illegal aliens in Jersey City who are working off the books, illegal aliens are never going to use it.

But illegal aliens' kids can get sick, too, and make other kids sick, so this is the sort of issue over which immigrant haters ought to declare a truce. Even if the immigrant haters do want the 3-year-old immigrants to die of the flu, they need to agree to public health measures to protect those children for the sake of all the children.

Public health authorities have to make a serious quarantine involving children such an important, powerful thing that even employers who are employing illegal day laborer slaves in dank basements have to obey the school kid quarantine kid rules, no matter what, no matter whether the workers are legal or illegal. The public health people should really have a right to send an armed guard to the workplace to make sure the employer lets the parent return to work.

And I'm not talking about a cold or even normal strep, but true killer epidemics, such as bad flu epidemics.

Also, my argument to the Webmaster about why this is not thread-hijacking: provisions for unimmunized public school students, and immunized students who lack immunity, is critical to the debate about vaccine requirements. If parents were sneaking un-immunized kids into school during a 1918-level killer flu epidemic that, without quick intervention, could kill hundreds of Jersey City school children and thousands of adults (without and without children), then that would be a big problem.

Quote:


There's nothing biased or selective about the fact that vaccines have nearly eliminated diseases like Measles and Polio in the US that used to be quite common and dangerous. I feel like people are losing sight of how much of a threat those diseases used to be. No one is saying that children are "completely protected," (they never are!) but if you follow the link for the Indiana story, almost all of the people affected by the outbreak were non-vaccinated. I think it's kind of sad that a parent would expose his/her child to deadly disease based on an unfounded belief in an outside risk of a side-effect. I'm not sure that should be a parent's right.

I don't think it is appropriate to compare very different societies and cultures. I also think it unfair to paint such a biased picture. I am sure that I can pluck stories off the internet or even out of my *(&$@)#!@ that would make you never want to drink water in any form again. That doesn't make it an intelligent and thoughtful discussion.

The point here is not that all vaccinations are bad. The point is the freaking idea that vaccinations are the answer to everything! What happened to the children in Indiana that had the vaccination? The idea that our children are completely protected is ludicrous.

You are comparing apples and oranges to make your point as well as bring up specific circumstances in which parents did not act responsibly to generalize about vaccinations. This is not a logical argument.

I am sure that for every point you make I can bring you a victim of a vaccine that would make you think twice... when you have US senators describe our children being vaccinated as little soldiers you simply wonder. When you are now taking care of a child for the rest of his or her life because there was no "proof" that the vaccine is harmful, the federal victim's fund is not much a consolation.

SO I don't understand YOU people... ask how these things are spread, the conditions that the Hausa and Yoruba live in, in many parts of their country... then let's talk turkey.


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I don't understand you people. Do you realize that the main reason you don't have to worry about many of these highly contagious and dangerous diseases much is precisely BECAUSE kids get vaccinated for them?

Unvaccinated populations are at risk for the disease. After vaccination rates dropped in northern Nigeria in the early 2000s due to religious and political objections, the number of cases rose significantly, and hundreds of children died.[4] A 2005 measles outbreak in Indiana was attributed to children whose parents refused vaccination.[5] In the early 2000s the MMR vaccine controversy in the United Kingdom regarding a potential link between the combined MMR vaccine (vaccinating children from mumps, measles and rubella) and autism prompted a comeback in the measles party, where parents deliberately infect the child with measles to build up the child's immunity without an injection. This practice poses many health risks to the child, and has been discouraged by the public health authorities.[6] Scientific evidence provides no support for the hypothesis that MMR plays a role in causing autism.[7] Declining immunisation rates in the UK are the probable cause of a significant increase of cases of measles, 2006 being the highest on record, and 2007 already showing an increase on the previous year.[8]

According to the World Health Organization (WHO), measles is a leading cause of vaccine preventable childhood mortality. Worldwide, the fatality rate has been significantly reduced by partners in the Measles Initiative: the American Red Cross, the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the United Nations Foundation, UNICEF and the World Health Organization (WHO). Globally, measles deaths are down 60 percent, from an estimated 873,000 deaths in 1999 to 345,000 in 2005. Africa has seen the most success, with annual measles deaths falling by 75 percent in just 5 years, from an estimated 506,000 to 126,000.[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles#Worldwide_MMR_Eradication
(check the sources if you wish)

PRE-K FLU VAX
Jersey order to be first some parents oppose it

Star Ledger
Tuesday, December 11

TRENTON - New Jersey moved yesterday toward becoming the first state to require flu shots for preschoolers after a health advisory board backed new vaccine mandates over the opposition of worried parents.

The Public Health Council voted to require New Jersey children attending preschool or licensed day care to get annual flu shots, and to get three additional vaccines for youngsters starting Sept. 1, 2008.

No other state requires preschool, day care or older students to get flu shots, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics.

The state's health commissioner, Dr. Fred M. Jacobs, has until next Tuesday to sign off on the mandates, though they have already been approved by Gov. Jon S. Corzine. Health Department spokesman Tom Slater said Jacobs was expected sign off on the proposal.

Besides the flu shots, New Jersey also will require preschoolers to get a pneumococcal vaccine and sixth-graders to get a whooping cough booster shot and a meningitis shot.

"Implementation of these rules will save lives and prevent disease and suffering in children, their families and the community," deputy health commissioner Dr. Eddy Bresnitz told the council yesterday.

The Council voted in favor of the requirements 5-2, with one abstention, with member Dennis San Filippo saying he would like to see studies done on whether it's safe for young children to get so many doses of different vaccines.

All four vaccines are recommended by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the American Academy of Pediatrics and other medical groups.

Parents concerned about possible dangers of the new vaccines and government intrusion in family medical decisions have been trying to block the new shots.

They note that flu vaccines contain trace amounts of mercury, a toxic heavy metal, and that mercury-free shots can be difficult to obtain.

According to the CDC and other scientific groups, there's no convincing evidence the trace amounts of mercury in flu shots cause harm.

Following the vote yesterday, concerned parents said they will keep urging support for a bill that would give parents a right to a "philosophical objection" to vaccine mandates, as many other states have.

The new vaccines will be available for free for low-income families through the federal Vaccines for Children program, and private insurers generally will cover the cost, Bresnitz said.

I'm sure that scenario covered under the federally mandated Family Medical Leave Act:

http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/fmla/

But your statement is precisely why I continue to freelance. You can just see the eyes roll to the back of the head of prospective employers when you mention you have young children. I wish more local employers would offer on-site childcare (I don't know of any nearby).

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Precisely.

Anyhow: another thing we really need is some kind of law that absolutely positively prohibits employers from firing or discriminating against parents who stay home with children suffering from serious infectious diseases.

If a parent is staying home with a child who has measles, or flu during a year when the flu is really dangerous, and an employer so much as makes a cranky call to the parent, C. Everett Koop should fly out of the phone and spit in the employer's face.