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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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In 1992, Lou Manzo lost because his brother who had the same last name also ran. Lou got around 6,000 votes, his brother who won the top ballot received 4,000 votes and the winner Schundler received around 7,000 votes. I spoke to many seniors to told me that got confused and voted for the wrong person. This happened during a special election during November when the ballot was packed. While this incident was unusual, you have people running with the same or similar names. Of course there will be confusion.

Posted on: 2015/10/31 14:05
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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(easy-peasy!!)


HOW TO USE THE ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES

1. Press the button to the right of the candidate of your choice; a green "X"will appear next to your selection.

a. If you wish to cast a write-in vote, go to the PERSONAL CHOICE column and press the button across from the office you wish to write-in. A blinking green "X" will appear. Using the keyboard below, enter the name of the person of your choice, one letter at a time. To make a correction, use the arrow pointing to the left. The name you enter will appear in the display to the left of the keyboard. After you have completed your selection, press the ENTER key on the keyboard. Your choice is recorded and removed from the display. Do not press the Cast Vote Button until all other choices are complete.
WARNING: An improperly cast vote will not be counted.

2. To change any selection, press the button again. The green "X" will disappear and you may make a new selection.

3. To vote on a PUBLIC QUESTION, press the button to the right of the word "YES" or "NO"; a green "X" will appear next to your selection.

4. After ALL selections have been made, press the RED CAST VOTE BUTTON located in the lower right hand corner. This electronically records all of your votes.

5. Part the curtains and exit the voting booth.

Posted on: 2015/10/31 1:55
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
All of you who support this probably never seen a ballot with 20 mayors running for office. We had four the last time. And as I stated in my letter, there is a potential of 60 at large running mates along with the ward seat. I have seen 20 mayors running for office twice. The ballot was a mess.

Yvonne you are forgetting the 120 ward council candidates as well. We're humans we make mistakes. Why do you think there were separate dates to begin with ? I could imagine the long lines at the voting booth. Well N.J. has one option; absentee ballot, thanks to former N.J. State Senator and temporary governor Richard Cody you can vote absentee for whatever reason.

Posted on: 2015/10/31 1:50
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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special elections have been in November anyway. when were there 20 candidates for mayor in a regular municipal election?

in 1989 there were only a record 10 candidates when McCann defeated Cunningham.

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Yvonne wrote:
All of you who support this probably never seen a ballot with 20 mayors running for office. We had four the last time. And as I stated in my letter, there is a potential of 60 at large running mates along with the ward seat. I have seen 20 mayors running for office twice. The ballot was a mess.

Posted on: 2015/10/31 1:02
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Not overwhelming? Really, I remember the election when similar names were on the ballot and this was on the old mechanical machines that had more space for names. I am sorry I did not saved that ballot.

Posted on: 2015/10/31 0:10
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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user1111 wrote:
I will be voting to move the election to November, FYI you can all vote by mail. Which makes long ballots less confusing when you know no one is waiting to use the booth and being a impatient douche.. Vote in the comfort of your homes.... I stopped voting at the poles about 2 years ago.


And as the JJ coments point out over and over...the sample paper ballots are snail mailed two weeks before election day. Plenty of time to read it over, study it and even mark it up to bring into the booth where you just need to press a few buttons.

It is amazing how the a-hole old machine HC/JC hacks Cunningham, Healy/Matsikoudis, Schundler, and Connors think we are all too stupid to figure out the "over whelming and confusing" ballot.

Posted on: 2015/10/30 23:04
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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I will be voting to move the election to November, FYI you can all vote by mail. Which makes long ballots less confusing when you know no one is waiting to use the booth and being a impatient douche.. Vote in the comfort of your homes.... I stopped voting at the poles about 2 years ago.

Posted on: 2015/10/30 21:29
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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That would not change if the election date stayed in May. That's an indictment of the dumb lack of a primary, which could piggy back on the same day as the presidential primaries.

Posted on: 2015/10/30 21:21
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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All of you who support this probably never seen a ballot with 20 mayors running for office. We had four the last time. And as I stated in my letter, there is a potential of 60 at large running mates along with the ward seat. I have seen 20 mayors running for office twice. The ballot was a mess.

Posted on: 2015/10/30 21:14
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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It makes sense to move the municipal elections to the first Tuesday in November. And we should go to instant runoff too.

For all the reasons already given by JPhurst, CatDog, T-Bird, PhilRivo, Limpiar el Sucio, and Pebble.


Posted on: 2015/10/30 20:34
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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terrencemcd wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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terrencemcd wrote:
Hoboken, though, has two separate races: one year mayor and at-large council, another year ward council.


Any observations on how that affects the races or the government? Does it tend to be less "winner take all" where a Mayor tends to have a council of yes-men voted in with him? There does seem to be more combat in the Hoboken city hall, but some of that wasn't thoughtful opposition but opposition for it's own sake.


Don't really know, alas. They've only had one race in November and Zimmer and her slate did sweep, but they may have swept in May, too. Hard to tell. They have another one next week, for ward council seats.


Ah, I didn't realize the splitting of the council to 2 elections was new also.

Posted on: 2015/10/30 19:08
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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brewster wrote:
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terrencemcd wrote:
Hoboken, though, has two separate races: one year mayor and at-large council, another year ward council.


Any observations on how that affects the races or the government? Does it tend to be less "winner take all" where a Mayor tends to have a council of yes-men voted in with him? There does seem to be more combat in the Hoboken city hall, but some of that wasn't thoughtful opposition but opposition for it's own sake.


Don't really know, alas. They've only had one race in November and Zimmer and her slate did sweep, but they may have swept in May, too. Hard to tell. They have another one next week, for ward council seats.

Posted on: 2015/10/30 18:53
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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terrencemcd wrote:
Hoboken, though, has two separate races: one year mayor and at-large council, another year ward council.


Any observations on how that affects the races or the government? Does it tend to be less "winner take all" where a Mayor tends to have a council of yes-men voted in with him? There does seem to be more combat in the Hoboken city hall, but some of that wasn't thoughtful opposition but opposition for it's own sake.

Posted on: 2015/10/30 18:23
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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The ballot question on moving municipal elections ahead to November is good for this city and it should pass. It is better for the democratic process, too. In this city we have classically had "low turnout" municipal elections in the spring. This intentionally favored the powers that be. On a random Tuesday in May or June it was easy to rally the city workers, their families, friends, allies to come out and vote so a minority of the city electorate came out and voted the same people into power year over year.

Everybody knows Election Day is the first Tuesday in November and everybody who votes goes to the polls on that day. We need the election of our city officials to happen on the day when our citizens vote. Some people are concerned the ballots will be too crowded with all of our elections in November but cities around the country have used smart graphic design to address that. It's simple: the more people that vote, the more the government represents the people.

Posted on: 2015/10/30 18:09
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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JPhurst wrote:
I would like to know what the results of this have been in cities that have made the change. Because there are several that have since the NJ legislature amended the law. Has voter turnout increased? What were the savings? Have there been any reports of ballot confusion? Have candidates that were placed on the ballot below the dominant party line received a higher share of the vote (as was the case in the 2013 school board elections in Jersey City)?

The arguments by most people for or against have been reasonable points but they are being made in a vacuum. Yet we have at least a few years of experience with this in other cities.


Hoboken switched in 2013, and saw about a 30% increase in turnout in its mayor's race compared to 2009.

Their ballot wasn't really set up so that the muni candidates were underneath the major candidates, and each of the at-large council candidates received about the same share of the vote, so it doesn't look like that was an issue.

Hoboken, though, has two separate races: one year mayor and at-large council, another year ward council.

I spoke to a councilman in Byram, a small Sussex county that made the switch. He said the town did see some savings and increased voter turnout, but that the November election did seem more partisan and ugly. He was against the move. But he told me he liked not having campaign signs all over the town during the spring.

http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... _pros_and_cons_of_mo.html

Posted on: 2015/10/28 15:16
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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I would like to know what the results of this have been in cities that have made the change. Because there are several that have since the NJ legislature amended the law. Has voter turnout increased? What were the savings? Have there been any reports of ballot confusion? Have candidates that were placed on the ballot below the dominant party line received a higher share of the vote (as was the case in the 2013 school board elections in Jersey City)?

The arguments by most people for or against have been reasonable points but they are being made in a vacuum. Yet we have at least a few years of experience with this in other cities.

Posted on: 2015/10/28 14:59
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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this post came up on my twitter feed ...

I also supported the change back then and still do now. The expense savings, reducing the number of elections in a calendar year and of course increasing turnout is the biggest reason. More people can/will vote, and that is improving democracy.

Realistically, politicians (the mayor or anyone else) only do things if they see a benefit (for themselves). In a way, we are fortunate to have this opportunity to make this positive change and that the public good happens to align with his goals.

I wish that this change would not impact the current officeholders, but unfortunately that is the cost.

I am also glad, that while the administration dragged their feet, they finally abolished both the JC Parking Authority and JC Incinerator Authority. Even the though the cost savings will most likely be spent (as the city continues to expand spending.) Down the road during the next period of austerity, someone else will have a greater opportunity and flexibility to cut spending.

Reform can be expensive and disheartening at times.





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LimpiarElSucio wrote:

agree but I still stand by the assertion that the optics of running for governor and then for mayor if it doesnt work are not favorable.


Oh, don't get me wrong - I'm for moving the election. I was for it when he pushed for it in 2010 and I'm for it now. Cutting costs while also boosting turnout is a win/win. Was merely taking one of the never-ending opportunities to comment on the mayor's self-serving actions.

And let's be real here - the optics? If Fulop doesn't win the gubernatorial primary and is "forced" to run for re-election, the optics won't matter. First, Steve pursues what Steve wants regardless of what others might think. Second, who is going to beat him? Rolando? Boggiano? Raj the teenager? Watterman? Chico/O'Dea? Cunningham? I think he'd beat any of them by 20 points. The only interesting thing to watch would to see how Bertoli would have to peel himself of several of the above and reattach himself to the boss.

Posted on: 2015/10/28 14:44
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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LimpiarElSucio wrote:

agree but I still stand by the assertion that the optics of running for governor and then for mayor if it doesnt work are not favorable.


Oh, don't get me wrong - I'm for moving the election. I was for it when he pushed for it in 2010 and I'm for it now. Cutting costs while also boosting turnout is a win/win. Was merely taking one of the never-ending opportunities to comment on the mayor's self-serving actions.

And let's be real here - the optics? If Fulop doesn't win the gubernatorial primary and is "forced" to run for re-election, the optics won't matter. First, Steve pursues what Steve wants regardless of what others might think. Second, who is going to beat him? Rolando? Boggiano? Raj the teenager? Watterman? Chico/O'Dea? Cunningham? I think he'd beat any of them by 20 points. The only interesting thing to watch would to see how Bertoli would have to peel himself of several of the above and reattach himself to the boss.

Posted on: 2015/10/27 22:52
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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LimpiarElSucio wrote:

Is this why he was pushing for it back in 2010 after the legislature changed the law? We've got a pretty clairvoyant mayor... :)


C'mon - you are a smart guy. (Where are you from? ) Motivations can change - he was for it back then because it was something that could help neutralize the machine. Now it serves his purposes to support it for other reasons. One does not negate the other.

The whole argument about "long, crowded, confusing ballots" is kind of silly - most people file their own taxes and everyone used to navigate phone books just fine. I wouldn't put voting on a ballot that has more than a few races and multiple candidates in each on the same level. People will manage. They almost always do.


agree but I still stand by the assertion that the optics of running for governor and then for mayor if it doesnt work are not favorable.
whatever the motivation is, it doesnt bother me as it aligns with what i believe is best for the city (improving turnout). i'm not bothered by the fact that the grocer sells me "healthy" food for profit and not the fact that they care about my nutrition.

Posted on: 2015/10/27 19:56
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Yvonne wrote:
I guess, you never voted in 1989 municipal election catdog, where 20 mayors ran for office. Not all had a full slate, if they did that would be 60 at large, plus about 12 for the ward candidates. We had another 20 mayors run in a special election that was also packed. That special election was in November. Most seniors that voted told me they wanted to vote for Lou Manzo, instead they voted for his brother, Allen Manzo who had the top ballot. They were confused. Lou Manzo got 6,000 votes, his brother who no one heard of got 4,000 votes, the winner was Bret Schundler who benefited from the confusion with 7,000 votes.


you dont think the confusion may have been caused by two candidates having the same surname?


Posted on: 2015/10/27 19:51
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Even if everything you said is true, it's still going to be up to the voters. I don't understand how anyone could have a problem with this action.

If people vote for this change, be mad at the voters, not Fulop.


Agreed. Let the voters decide.

The flip side to complaints about Fulop's intentions - is pols like Boggiano and Cunningham seem scared of facing Fulop in the next mayoral elections. And it's much easier to rig a vote with low turnout.

Posted on: 2015/10/27 18:02
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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LimpiarElSucio wrote:

Is this why he was pushing for it back in 2010 after the legislature changed the law? We've got a pretty clairvoyant mayor... :)


C'mon - you are a smart guy. (Where are you from? ) Motivations can change - he was for it back then because it was something that could help neutralize the machine. Now it serves his purposes to support it for other reasons. One does not negate the other.

The whole argument about "long, crowded, confusing ballots" is kind of silly - most people file their own taxes and everyone used to navigate phone books just fine. I wouldn't put voting on a ballot that has more than a few races and multiple candidates in each on the same level. People will manage. They almost always do.

Posted on: 2015/10/27 17:41
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Yes, things did change Pebble, the older machines were mechanical and the screen size were larger. Today, it is electronic with a smaller screen size. It doesn't make sense to have more elections on a smaller screen.

Posted on: 2015/10/27 15:47
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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The referendum is an advisory measure. The power to effect the change rests with the council. That is how the Board of Education elections were changed. In the Board of Education's case, the change could be effectuated by a council vote OR a binding referendum that was put on the ballot by petition. Jersey City's referendum was not placed on the ballot by petition but was a non-binding referendum placed on the ballot by the council.

You can argue this is the city voluntarily making a decision more democratic or providing political cover for an otherwise self-serving decision.

Ultimately, the importance of the issue goes beyond whether this helps or hurts the current Mayor's gubernatorial ambitions. I will assume that Fulop is being self-serving by encouraging this. But I can also assume that his political opponents are being self-serving by discouraging it, because they feel it gives them less of a chance to succeed him or because they want to knock him down a peg. At least one of the outspoken opponents supported it until he realized that it would allow Fulop to run for Governor and then run for Mayor again. Now he is talking about the "integrity" of the elections.

As for runoffs, we absolutely should go to instant runoff voting. Rank the candidates in order, and when a candidate is eliminated their vote goes to the next choice. Runoffs often have ridiculously low turnout. In theory they are there to ensure the candidate elected has majority support. In practice they allow someone who can mobilize a small bloc of voters to win an election with a tiny percentage of eligible voters.

Posted on: 2015/10/27 15:29
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Yvonne wrote:
I guess, you never voted in 1989 municipal election catdog, where 20 mayors ran for office. Not all had a full slate, if they did that would be 60 at large, plus about 12 for the ward candidates. We had another 20 mayors run in a special election that was also packed. That special election was in November. Most seniors that voted told me they wanted to vote for Lou Manzo, instead they voted for his brother, Allen Manzo who had the top ballot. They were confused. Lou Manzo got 6,000 votes, his brother who no one heard of got 4,000 votes, the winner was Bret Schundler who benefited from the confusion with 7,000 votes.

Well, 26 years ago with old technology, things got confusing... I guess that means that we shouldn't make a change now!

Posted on: 2015/10/27 14:48
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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I guess, you never voted in 1989 municipal election catdog, where 20 mayors ran for office. Not all had a full slate, if they did that would be 60 at large, plus about 12 for the ward candidates. We had another 20 mayors run in a special election that was also packed. That special election was in November. Most seniors that voted told me they wanted to vote for Lou Manzo, instead they voted for his brother, Allen Manzo who had the top ballot. They were confused. Lou Manzo got 6,000 votes, his brother who no one heard of got 4,000 votes, the winner was Bret Schundler who benefited from the confusion with 7,000 votes.

Posted on: 2015/10/27 14:37
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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All of these arguments against this are so dumb.

"But what if there's a runoff and it's cold outside! I never leave my house during the Winter ever, so this would keep me from voting!"

"But I'll get more junk mail during a concentrated part of the year instead of spread out over an entire year!"

"What if Fulop is using this as a secret plan to run for Mayor if he doesn't win Governor? He's known he planned to do this even 5 years ago before he became mayor!"

"But the mayor and council will be extending their term by a full SIX months, allowing them to wreak unknown havoc on the city!"

"There will be too many names on the ballot it will be confusing for my pea-sized brain!"

"Even if more people vote what if they don't check all of the boxes because they get bored after 30 seconds??"


Regarding those last two, give your fellow voters a little bit of credit. If they're the kind of person who can't be bothered to spend a few seconds checking some names and boxes, they probably aren't the kind that would be voting except during Presidential Elections.

There really is only a single valid argument against moving the elections to November and it's that keeping it in May will keep voter turnout low, which will help benefit the political machine of the HCDO and incumbent politicians. It's not even slightly surprising that all of the politicians campaigning against this are HCDO faithful and the people urging to change it are the ones that pissed the HCDO off.

Posted on: 2015/10/27 14:16
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OneSkirt wrote:

Terrence, would this switch also move the county elections too?


County races are already in November. Next week the county exec is running for re-election.


Lol, I guess this shows how much attention people pay to county races. Personally, I had no idea the county exec was up for re-election next week.

Posted on: 2015/10/27 0:54
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Terrence, would this switch also move the county elections too?


County races are already in November. Next week the county exec is running for re-election.

Posted on: 2015/10/26 22:51
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terrencemcd wrote:
Quote:

LimpiarElSucio wrote:


I'm also convinced that moving the election DOES NOT provide a fallback plan for our Mayor. Fulop would have to submit his petitions for the mayoral race prior to the gubernatorial primary, if that happened Sweeney and Murphy would have a field day and it could wreck Fulop's chances for the primary (while his gubernatorial run would hurt his chances in the mayoral).



No, nonpartisan municipal candidates do not have to file until late August in November races.


Terrence, would this switch also move the county elections too?

Posted on: 2015/10/26 22:47
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