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Re: The Beacon
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Xerxes wrote:

Jersey City has a recent particular pattern of growth near the PATH trains..Newport, Avalon Cove, Harborside and Paulus Hook. These areas grow as the region gets popular. Same cannot be said for areas 3/4 miles from the stations with no appreciable new development in-between.

The fate of Jersey City is intricately tied to only one factor...the financial health of New York City. If NYC booms, the Beacon can expand Westward along Bergen Avenue to Journal Square. If NYC financials struggle, the Beacon will stand alone in the dreary wilderness for a long time.


I think you mean north?

Curious to know what your thoughts are on places like Society Hill and Port Liberty? Both in Jersey City, from one developer, and are not really even walkable to mass transit.

I am not sure if any of you have actually been to the area you are talking about. If so you would realize the west side of Hamelton park (the actual park, not even the end of the neighborhood) is the same distance from a PATH station as the Beacon!

Posted on: 2009/7/2 19:13
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i dont think there is any point discussing this further as we are just going in circles, each side have made all of their points.

Looking back 2 years, I dont think anyone can disput the fact the anti-beacon crowd was correct on the price predictions as evident by the recent prices. Now lets bury this thread for another 2 years, and see who's right again at end of 2011.

Posted on: 2009/7/2 17:59
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sjcarolan wrote:
In my mind you cannot make a comparison to Grove a few years ago, the major difference being that the area around grove has ideal proximity to transportation (ie you do not need to take a shuttle OR walk 15 minutes to get PATH). I would venture to guess that 85%+ of Downtown JC residents come to JC because of its great commute to Manhattan. I know I did, and I know we immediately ruled out the Beacon because we did not want to have to deal with a shuttle.

That is not to say that the Beacon is not a beautiful building. I could care less about the projects IF the location was closer to PATH, but its not, and never will be. Again, I am thrilled that people like the building, as do I. But in the grand scheme, it's location is far from ideal. And while its surroundings may improve, it will be tempered by the fact that its location is sub-par.


The same thing was said about Red Hook in Brooklyn. I worked there for a number of years and I couldn't even fathom the kind of development that has happened over the past 10 years. And I find Red hook to be a much less neighborhood friendly place than McGinley Square. It's more than a 10 minute walk to the subway ( you have to cross over a pretty desolate walkway overlooking the BQE and then wait FOREVER for the F or G train), the housing inventory is mostly limited to industrial spaces and aluminum-sided houses, and the bus service in no way compares to the options that are available to the residents of McGinley Square. Yet, the area is doing quite well. Businesses have flocked to the area and set up some really nice cafes, boutiques and nurseries--despite the large inventory of low income housing and the more than occasional burning parked car.
The foundation for growth is here, it just needs more time. To me, part of what is going to make the Beacon development a successful one is the innovative and aggressive actions of Metrovest. I think that they are acclimating their inventory well in light of the current market conditions. I don't see how an auction is a sign of failure, the condo's still fetched a pretty penny considering the stale market we're in.
And as far as "location, location, location" goes, you ever talk to someone from brooklyn or manhattan about jersey city? Many of them have the same opinion/lack of knowledge of us that many jc downtowner's have about the rest of jersey city.

Posted on: 2009/7/2 16:33
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Can you get the shuttle at 2AM? Do you call and they come for you?

It's easy in retrospect to say look how a neighborhood changed AFTER it has changed and AFTER an economic growth spurt (roughly 1993 through 2008.) But it might be a mistake to extrapolate that to a single developer moving far afield to start his own little Valhallah. In BAD economic times one cannot presume all such ventures will succeed just becasue they did during the go-go years, and generally speaking, an auction is a sign of failure no matter WHAT spin the developer tries to weave.

Jersey City has a recent particular pattern of growth near the PATH trains..Newport, Avalon Cove, Harborside and Paulus Hook. These areas grow as the region gets popular. Same cannot be said for areas 3/4 miles from the stations with no appreciable new development in-between.

The fate of Jersey City is intricately tied to only one factor...the financial health of New York City. If NYC booms, the Beacon can expand Westward along Bergen Avenue to Journal Square. If NYC financials struggle, the Beacon will stand alone in the dreary wilderness for a long time.


The shuttle run less frequently after mid-night, but it is still available. There is a website you can find out more about the community:

www.beaconowners.com

JC is a steal compare to other areas near NYC such as Brooklyn. I was at NOVO in Brooklyn last month and their 1bd is asking for 500-650k. The building isn’t even close to the waterfront where I can pick a 2bd at Newport for 600k+ easily. However, 600k+ is still high in today market compares to what Beacon has to offer. Yes, Beacon is not in a desire location I must agree. Potential? Yes. From an investment point of view, buying a 2bd for 340k in Beacon compares to 600k+ in Newport? What about rental market? For those who lost their job and can no longer afford NYC waterfront area, JC is on their short list. A 1bd with all the amenities will run you approx 2500 month? Well ¾ miles away is 2000. You can do the math.

Yes, it is all depends on the market. At least one is brave enough to unload their inventory via auction and move to the next phase. 77 Hudson? 30% sold? Whoever bought a 1br for 500K in there will be stand alone on their floor for a long time. Well, maybe it is a good thing.

chill

Posted on: 2009/7/2 15:54
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Can you get the shuttle at 2AM? Do you call and they come for you?

It's easy in retrospect to say look how a neighborhood changed AFTER it has changed and AFTER an economic growth spurt (roughly 1993 through 2008.) But it might be a mistake to extrapolate that to a single developer moving far afield to start his own little Valhallah. In BAD economic times one cannot presume all such ventures will succeed just becasue they did during the go-go years, and generally speaking, an auction is a sign of failure no matter WHAT spin the developer tries to weave.

Jersey City has a recent particular pattern of growth near the PATH trains..Newport, Avalon Cove, Harborside and Paulus Hook. These areas grow as the region gets popular. Same cannot be said for areas 3/4 miles from the stations with no appreciable new development in-between.

The fate of Jersey City is intricately tied to only one factor...the financial health of New York City. If NYC booms, the Beacon can expand Westward along Bergen Avenue to Journal Square. If NYC financials struggle, the Beacon will stand alone in the dreary wilderness for a long time.

Posted on: 2009/7/2 14:11
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I wasn't comparing beacon with Battery Park, but in general I would prefer a bit distance from the station. Beacon for sure is no walking distance, but 5 mins shuttle isn't bad for me

Posted on: 2009/7/1 22:40
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yeah i remember those ads in the nyt about gold coast etc.. but things didnt really take off until around 2001.

Posted on: 2009/7/1 20:39
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the gentrification of downtown has been going on for longer than since 9/11. it may have been sped up in part due to 9/11, but it's been going on for what - 15 years now?

Posted on: 2009/7/1 20:23
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bsun, you have to understand the root causes of jersey city's gentrification. It is because after 9/11, all major nyc financial firms moved their back and middle office to newport and exchange place, this was a massive buildout almost overnight. In turn it triggered an equally massive development effort of residential real estate BASED OFF those 2 hotspots, as the new condos got bought up/filled quickly, the development expanded outwards. It was also during one of the biggest real estate booms in history. All the conditions were aligned perfectly.

Grove street path area was gentrified because of its close proximity to the newport/exchange place offices and transportation.

In the beacon area, as mentioned transportation will always be a major issue, but in addition we are in the bust phase right now. Other than the beacon developer, there is no new money coming in, and no new high rise condo/office buildings going up. It will be dead money for a long time. If you are looking to invest, you should check the jsq path area as i mentioned before. They have a real redevelopment effort going on right by the path station with new office buildings and condos going up, and transportation right there.

Anyway i wish the beacon area luck, it will only benefit me if it does become gentrified as it will mean a new area for us jc residents to go to.

Posted on: 2009/7/1 20:10
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bsun wrote:

I sort of disagree. Best resident area not necessary need to be this close to a station. Let's take Battery Park for an example. It take easily 15 mins to get to the subway from any building in that area.

Personally, I would prefer my place a bit farther from the station instead of Grove Pointe. Too many pedestrian traffic cause pollution and garbage.

Just me.

I was hesitant to even reply because I thought you were being funny.

First, I think comparing Battery Park to I the Beacon's neighborhood is absolute insanity, no offense. Second, a bit farther from a station implies a few blocks. The Beacon is not even a part of the same neighborhood. That said I guess it is a good thing for the Beacon developers that not everyone has my tastes!

Posted on: 2009/7/1 19:19
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In my mind you cannot make a comparison to Grove a few years ago, the major difference being that the area around grove has ideal proximity to transportation (ie you do not need to take a shuttle OR walk 15 minutes to get PATH). I would venture to guess that 85%+ of Downtown JC residents come to JC because of its great commute to Manhattan. I know I did, and I know we immediately ruled out the Beacon because we did not want to have to deal with a shuttle.

That is not to say that the Beacon is not a beautiful building. I could care less about the projects IF the location was closer to PATH, but its not, and never will be. Again, I am thrilled that people like the building, as do I. But in the grand scheme, it's location is far from ideal. And while its surroundings may improve, it will be tempered by the fact that its location is sub-par.


I sort of disagree. Best resident area not necessary need to be this close to a station. Let's take Battery Park for an example. It take easily 15 mins to get to the subway from any building in that area.

Personally, I would prefer my place a bit farther from the station instead of Grove Pointe. Too many pedestrian traffic cause pollution and garbage.

Just me.

Posted on: 2009/7/1 18:03
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Let me share a funny story. I was in the Grove street area, god knows how many years ago, working for Pershing the company. The Pershing Plaza was the first new building came up at that time after Harborside I believe. Anyway, the first month we were there we had to work many late hours. We used to bring our dinner to work instead of venturing out to the local. The Grove pointe was where I used to park my car for $5 whole day. One night, my co-work and I were in short of mayonnaise and went to one of the local deli for it. No joke, the local charged us $7 for the jar of mayonnaise. Since we expense our dinner, we bought it.

This was a silly incident, but what I'm trying to imply is that the local know when to jack up price and that is how cost of living in newly developing area goes up.

A bottle of Dasani water in Chelsea is $3 today and I think it is crazy, but the residents around the area has no problem with that.

Posted on: 2009/7/1 17:52
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Indomitus wrote:
There are many local businesses in this area, mainly on Bergen Avenue; long term businesses that have been here for decades, i.e. Prince of Pizza, Lee Sims, along with 2 dry cleaners, deli's, fruit and veg stores, fish stores, Shelly's/C-Town, Chinese & Vietamese restaurants, shoemaker, etc. and the obligatory 3 dollar stores.


damn up in the heights we only have 1 dollar stores... mcginley square must be movin on up


see, and everyone thought we needed an upgrade - we're already big-time!!!!

Posted on: 2009/7/1 17:34
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Indomitus wrote:
There are many local businesses in this area, mainly on Bergen Avenue; long term businesses that have been here for decades, i.e. Prince of Pizza, Lee Sims, along with 2 dry cleaners, deli's, fruit and veg stores, fish stores, Shelly's/C-Town, Chinese & Vietamese restaurants, shoemaker, etc. and the obligatory 3 dollar stores.


damn up in the heights we only have 1 dollar stores... mcginley square must be movin on up

Posted on: 2009/7/1 17:18
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Hey jennymayla,

I still live in Brooklyn, but have worked in JSQ for 2 years now. I don't meant the existing neighbors should move but the possibilities is high if the area is cleaned up and flourished.

It is a simple cost of living ratio. If the area is cleaned and more mid to higher income families moved in, more higher disposable income will be in the area. Higher standard retail stores will want to have a presence in the area. Banks will compete to have their branch open. Then the question is whether the existing 3 stories apartment building landlord wants to rent their property to the usual or to these high ranking businesses.

From experience, if bank want a corner they usually get it. No landlord will refuse a 10-15 years lease with renovation of their property.

You are correct. Redevelopment of dumped down neighborhood not always work. It really depends on the city and the developer commitment.

Somehow, I see the commitment from the city and developer in the area where Beacon is at.

I hope it isn't a wishful thinking.


Me too.

I've learned that nothing is ever simple in JC. But here's hoping.

Live long and prosper, folks!

Posted on: 2009/7/1 16:51
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There are many local businesses in this area, mainly on Bergen Avenue; long term businesses that have been here for decades, i.e. Prince of Pizza, Lee Sims, along with 2 dry cleaners, deli's, fruit and veg stores, fish stores, Shelly's/C-Town, Chinese & Vietamese restaurants, shoemaker, etc. and the obligatory 3 dollar stores. Most of the homes are privately owned. Most of the boarded up property was what's left of the Med Ctr complex/Beacon. What really has been needed was a better police presence, not just a drive by down Monticello Ave. from one end to the other.

Posted on: 2009/7/1 16:45
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In my mind you cannot make a comparison to Grove a few years ago, the major difference being that the area around grove has ideal proximity to transportation (ie you do not need to take a shuttle OR walk 15 minutes to get PATH). I would venture to guess that 85%+ of Downtown JC residents come to JC because of its great commute to Manhattan. I know I did, and I know we immediately ruled out the Beacon because we did not want to have to deal with a shuttle.

That is not to say that the Beacon is not a beautiful building. I could care less about the projects IF the location was closer to PATH, but its not, and never will be. Again, I am thrilled that people like the building, as do I. But in the grand scheme, it's location is far from ideal. And while its surroundings may improve, it will be tempered by the fact that its location is sub-par.

Posted on: 2009/7/1 16:41
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Hey jennymayla,

I still live in Brooklyn, but have worked in JSQ for 2 years now. I don't meant the existing neighbors should move but the possibilities is high if the area is cleaned up and flourished.

It is a simple cost of living ratio. If the area is cleaned and more mid to higher income families moved in, more higher disposable income will be in the area. Higher standard retail stores will want to have a presence in the area. Banks will compete to have their branch open. Then the question is whether the existing 3 stories apartment building landlord wants to rent their property to the usual or to these high ranking businesses.

From experience, if bank want a corner they usually get it. No landlord will refuse a 10-15 years lease with renovation of their property.

You are correct. Redevelopment of dumped down neighborhood not always work. It really depends on the city and the developer commitment.

Somehow, I see the commitment from the city and developer in the area where Beacon is at.

I hope it isn't a wishful thinking.

Posted on: 2009/7/1 16:32
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A lot of people live in the surrounding area and would take advantage of retail there. I would be overjoyed if they put in a mid to high-end supermarket. But they'd have to do validated free parking, kind of like the Morton Williams at Newport. Anyone know when the parking garage is getting built? The original plans showed a big one on the back of the property, if I'm recalling correctly. And there was always talk of a nice restaurant on a high floor with views which I hope they're still planning.

Posted on: 2009/7/1 16:29
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I was on a tour at the Beacon a few weeks back and noticed that they are planning a retail area in one of the buildings. I wonder what will go in those places- great location for the residents, but what else/who else?

Posted on: 2009/7/1 16:12
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For sure, JCSHEP. I've seen that first hand and have personally invested in the area. But I'd also argue that we have a bit of a way to go, particularly with creating and sustaining more local business, as well as addressing the constant crime, even on the small time level. The stolen bike thread just reinforces that message. I know, we live in a city, yadda yadda but that doesn't make it ok.

And many other neighborhoods throughout JC have not had the same turnaround...yet.

Paving a housing project and putting up a Barnes & Noble ain't the answer.

Posted on: 2009/7/1 16:10
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jennymayla wrote:
.....I would love to support your argument that new neighbors and influx of cash can clean up a neighborhood, there are plenty of examples around the our city that disprove that.



A good example of this is the grove street area. I lived around there for years, it has gone thru major changes in the last 7 years. There were abandoned buildings where grove point is as recently as around 5 years ago with vagrants living in them. As you move away from the new big buildings, the areas to the west, Barrow, Jersey, Monmouth, Bruswick, etc did not look anything like they do today.

Posted on: 2009/7/1 16:04
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Welcome bsun. Do you currently live in JC? I am curious because while I would love to support your argument that new neighbors and influx of cash can clean up a neighborhood, there are plenty of examples around the our city that disprove that.

I also support your theory of increased police presence forcing the gangs out but again, yet to see that happen anywhere else in the city, at least not consistently.

The other question I battle with is why should the existing low-income neighbors --most of whom are neither thugs nor gang nor criminals -- have to move? They were there first.

As I've said before, I've got nothing but good wishes for The Beacon. It's success would speak volumes for the viability of JC real estate. Just very interested in seeing how that community intends to leapfrog multiple levels of socioeconomic class to become the utopia promised.

Posted on: 2009/7/1 15:37
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I’m surprise I read this entire thread. I guess because I’ve interest in the building. Anyway, I’m from Brooklyn and let me share my two cents. Good neighborhood is the caused of money poured into the area. Regardless where it is, as long as the city, businesses and people willing to invest in the area, the area is destined to come up. For the last 15 years, I’ve invested in areas where they once called sh-ithole. All these areas are now consider the good or best place to live. To name a few, Sunset/Parkslop, BedStuy, Redhook, Fort Green and Williamsbury. If you read New York newspaper, these areas weren’t Disneyland and some areas still need more clean up. However, young couples and middle class families are moving in regardlessly and the real estate value in these areas has increased god know how many folds. Few years ago, I was looking to buy a brownstone in Fort Green for like $500,000 but missed the opportunity. Today, the same brownstone is around $2.5 - 4 mils.

Reason? These areas are cheaper than the waterfront to live and are close to the city. Today, the monthly rent for a 2 bedrooms apartment in Parkslop and Williamsbury is about $3,000 with no view. Want to buy a 3 families building in Redhook? 3 mils if you are lucky. Can these people afford to live there? Sure.

Beacon is no different. It is consider cheaper than Exchange Place/Waterfront areas. So what if it is surrounded by thugs/gangs? They won’t survive for too long. When there are more money pour into a neighborhood, there will be more patrol. No thugs want to get stopped by police everyday. Thugs need low-income areas to survives don’t you notice? There will be no juice left for them eventually then they move.

After the Beacon auction, the developer is moving to the next phase of the project. The area is going to get more tax income from the new residents. No city wants that to go away so it will get cleaned up. For those who own property around this neighborhood should feel fortunate.

I give this area another 3+ years then it should be all clear. For the Montgomery Garden, I see a Barns and Nobles sitting there very soon. Just for the reference, It took less than 3 years for 97 Warren Street, NY to complete. Building no longer take 10 years to build.


Posted on: 2009/7/1 15:16
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That is right R Rialto -- C Capitol. All the buildings will be named after famous art deco theaters. The next to open will be The Mercury. Lofts. Huge. Unbelievably appointed and priced. Wish I had the bucks! Another building will be named The Orpheum.

Posted on: 2009/6/30 13:32
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Xerxes wrote:
Can I presume that R means River view as in New York, and C means City view as in Journal square? Or is it something like Courtyard and Rear?

Fox, did you find the square footage as listed matched those you measured or perceived?

So I guess the Beacon has been finally priced at around $300/listed square foot giver or take a little. Oops... plus 10%!


Pretty sure R is RIALTO and C is CAPITOL, two of the names of the individual buildings in the complex.

Posted on: 2009/6/30 11:06
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Can I presume that R means River view as in New York, and C means City view as in Journal square? Or is it something like Courtyard and Rear?

Fox, did you find the square footage as listed matched those you measured or perceived?

So I guess the Beacon has been finally priced at around $300/listed square foot giver or take a little. Oops... plus 10%!

Posted on: 2009/6/30 3:10
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Units had different quality of views: one that faced that NYC skyline went for a lot more than one with an endearing view of the Pulaski Skyway and smokestacks.

And yup, 10% went to the house. Auctioneers and Developer made bank this weekend.

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wibbit wrote:
the price looks to be all over the place for example:

R-1807 = $257,500 [764 sqft]
C-1809 = $210,000 [795 sqft]

but i agree no steals looke like the developer made off nicely. Will wait to see the tax records after those closes before commenting further.

but what do you mean 10% premium? the buyer is paying the auction and not the sellers? and 10%?!?! agent only charges 5% nowdays for a closing. So a 210k unit, the buyer is paying the auction house 21k?

Posted on: 2009/6/29 18:19
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Re: The Beacon
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the price looks to be all over the place for example:

R-1807 = $257,500 [764 sqft]
C-1809 = $210,000 [795 sqft]

but i agree no steals looke like the developer made off nicely. Will wait to see the tax records after those closes before commenting further.

but what do you mean 10% premium? the buyer is paying the auction and not the sellers? and 10%?!?! agent only charges 5% nowdays for a closing. So a 210k unit, the buyer is paying the auction house 21k?

Posted on: 2009/6/29 18:04
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Re: The Beacon
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I attended the entire auction. They started with the 2BRs until they found a bottom, then moved onto the 1BRs. Here are the prices by apartment (don\'t forget to add 10% to the prices listed below; if the buyer does a quick close, they can deduct 2% from the price):

2BR:

C-1512 = $425,000 [1,203 sqft]
C-1609 = $430,000 [1,366 sqft]
C-1209 = $425,000 [1,366 sqft]
C-1109 = $385,000 [1,366 sqft]
C-614 = $375,000 [1,200 sqft]
R-1505 = $350,000 [1,278 sqft]
C-709 = $370,000[1,366 sqft]
C-609(*) = $370,000 [1,200 sqft]
R-1502 = $360,000 [1,278 sqft]
R-1702 = $357,500 [1,278 sqft]
R-1402 = $350,000 [1,278 sqft]
R-1805 = $350,000 [1,278 sqft]
R-303 = $330,000 [1,269 sqft]
C-520 = $320,000 [1,202 sqft]
C-515 = $315,000 [1,200 sqft]
C-113 = $305,000 [1,202 sqft]
C-315 = $305,000 [1,202 sqft]
C-322 = $305,000 [1,202 sqft]
R-203 = $305,000 [1,159 sqft]
R-804 = $305,000 [1,023 sqft]

1BR:

R-606 = $287,500 [1,070 sqft]
R1606 = $287,500 [905 sqft]
R-701 = $277,500 [863 sqft]
R-1902 = $275,000 [820 sqft]
R-1506 = $270,000 [905 sqft]
R-1006 = $257,500 [905 sqft]
R-1807 = $257,500 [764 sqft]
R-806 = $255,000 [905 sqft]
C-1809 = $210,000 [795 sqft]
R-410 = $212,500 [853 sqft]


All apartments were sold absolute, with the exception of the unit marked with a (*), which was sold with reserve (i.e. the seller has the right to refuse the winning bid). Following the sale of unit C-709, the seller started selectively marking certain units as being subjected to reserve.

Posted on: 2009/6/29 15:00
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