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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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hero69 wrote:
I have heard reports of people paying markedly different rates with similar properties right next to each other...but I would hope there is a common sense way to approach this by raising everyone's taxes a little bit more and drastically scaling back the tex the outliers pay


Sorry, but just so people don't get even more confused than they already are, I'm going to nitpick. No one pays a different "rate". They pay the same rate on their assessment x multiplier. It's the assessments that vary wildly, not the rate.

The common sense approach IS the reval! Get the values right and fairness follows. But right now, often the wealthiest residents pay the least tax on the real value of their properties. Don't leave it at what you've heard, take a few minutes and look at the taxes of any properties you're familiar with both nearby and across town, you'll see for yourself.

Posted on: 2013/6/26 13:50
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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I have heard reports of people paying markedly different rates with similar properties right next to each other...but I would hope there is a common sense way to approach this by raising everyone's taxes a little bit more and drastically scaling back the tex the outliers pay


Posted on: 2013/6/26 13:21
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Costs go up...When is the last tiem you went to your boss and told him not to raise your salary? When did you tell your boss that he could make your job more efficient by making you do more work and firing somebody else?


This is exactly the reason why the whole reval system is broken. If properties were revalued at transfer or at least every 10 years, the taxable base would rise with inflation, and the "rate" would stay the same to bring in the same inflation adjusted dollars. But most properties are assessed at roughly a 1/3 of their market value, this varying wildly, creating the whole messy voodoo of the "multiplier" used to try and adjust the actual taxes. So this whole thing gets so broken that the actual rate is raised to fix budget holes, and we know that rates never go down.

Don't trust me that it's all broken, look at the taxes of any building or condo yourself. Lots of modest houses worth $3-400K all over JC are paying similar $9-12k taxes to $1m houses downtown. This is a govt site to search http://tax1.co.monmouth.nj.us/cgi-bin ... istrict=0906&ms_user=monm, or just use zillow or trulia. Any property in zillow's database has the current taxes that they scrape from the public database, and all the sites show the last sale price, unless it wasn't an arms length deal.

Posted on: 2013/6/26 11:48
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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This is just a song a dance, I don't believe the hype.

Posted on: 2013/6/26 11:20
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Costs go up...When is the last tiem you went to your boss and told him not to raise your salary? When did you tell your boss that he could make your job more efficient by making you do more work and firing somebody else?

Posted on: 2013/6/26 9:32
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Its a brave move for Fulop. He could have sat back and allowed it to run its course and if people felt the process was flawed, he could have said it was a holdover from the last administration. Which it was. Now he is going to "own" it and be responsible regardless of the political fallout and I think this shows a lot of character since he must know some people will blame him personally when the taxes go up.

Posted on: 2013/6/26 9:19
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Why would you want taxes to go up?

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I think that taxes need to go up, although I agree they are high already relative to NYC which has abnormally low taxes thanks to corporations.

Posted on: 2013/6/26 9:18
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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I think that taxes need to go up, although I agree they are high already relative to NYC which has abnormally low taxes thanks to corporations.

I think the reval should proceed with some type of cap put on the maximum increase...

Posted on: 2013/6/26 8:59
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
This is actually pretty fair. He has a good point- prices in Sandy effected places- which is most of downtown and lots of other places including Port Liberte, Society Hill, and Country Village are not going to be the same.

Further, as to the "free-loader" comment, I live in a newer building where my taxes are abated but still too high (even according to the assessor) based on the price I paid. However, with the recent resurge in prices they are more in line with the value.

So basically, we all know freeloader is code for downtown, particularly those who are long time owners or those who got short sales or those with abatements or whatever the logic du jour is, and only those people who were effected by Sandy (if them, because prices have been going up in buildings that had problems too) will get a break.

Instead of griping about who is paying what, how about asking why we ALL pay higher taxes than people in suburbs who aren't afraid to send their kids to school.


Many great points -- and we agree that Fulop is doing the right thing!

Posted on: 2013/6/26 8:51
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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This is was the one issue that nearly kept me from voting at all on election day. I really wish Fulop would clarify whether he believes in the principle of a reval and whether the reval would resume once the kinks in methodology are worked out.

Posted on: 2013/6/26 8:17
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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This is total BS. I agree with Fulop on 99% of issues. In fact, this is really the only one a can remember not agreeing with him on but it's a biggie. This is a kick in the face to people who have bought property in the city during the last 6-7 years. (Exception for PILOT properties, you made a deal and your stuck with that agreement.)
This is completely unfair to people who pay on the full value of their property. You know what Fulop? I can't afford to pay the taxes either, do I get a deal? Are you going to lower my assessment based on the % of the total value the average property owner is actually assessed at? That would be more fair.
I am a Democrat through and through but this really helps me understand why Republicans think Democrats are a bunch of Communist wealth redistributors.

Posted on: 2013/6/26 7:55
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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blanquiita wrote:
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ConstantReader wrote:
I would very much like to see these differences ironed out--and perhaps pay less in taxes as a result.



I doubt that many people's taxes will go down. If anything, people who are underpaying will have their taxes raised to "equalize" the disparity. That was my impression of the reval.


I don't know where you get that impression, but the LAW says that's not the way it's done. The final take of taxes has to be the same as before. I've heard that many people thought what you said is so because they raised the rate at the same time as the reval, so fewer people saw an actual decrease than should have even though their "relative" taxes went down. But rate increase is a separate issue from reval even as it muddies the waters.

Posted on: 2013/6/25 18:40
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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ConstantReader wrote:
I would very much like to see these differences ironed out--and perhaps pay less in taxes as a result.



I doubt that many people's taxes will go down. If anything, people who are underpaying will have their taxes raised to "equalize" the disparity. That was my impression of the reval.

Posted on: 2013/6/25 18:05
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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This will become a temporary stop gap. I am quite sure Secaucus or some other Hudson County town that went up 20% compared to JC 1% will take us to court. Newark was sued by one of its Essex county neighbors and the judge ordered a reval.

Posted on: 2013/6/25 18:05
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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ConstantReader wrote:
I have to say I'm disappointed, too. There are huge disparities in property taxes even within my condo building near McGinley Square: My next-door neighbor pays $2000 a year less in property taxes than I do, even though our apartments are similar in square footage and condition. I would very much like to see these differences ironed out--and perhaps pay less in taxes as a result.

That said, the now-terminated reval was a joke. It was announced in spring 2010 and was supposed to take 18 months. Three years later, it still wasn't finished. In the interim, market values have fluctuated widely in different neighborhoods. How you could get consistent valuations for homes through such a drawn-out process was a mystery to me. Here's hoping that Fulop does a new reval and does it right.
let me ask the obvious: why haven't you appealed your assessment?

Posted on: 2013/6/25 17:38
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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I think there is some jumping to conclusions going on. What is wrong with Fulop putting a halt to the reval while he audits the firm's work?

Posted on: 2013/6/25 17:31
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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JPhurst wrote:
I think it is legitimate to question how this contract was awarded.


Especially after the company Healy hired declared that they had to delay the results until after the election once Healy decided to run for re-election.

Posted on: 2013/6/25 17:25
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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I have to say I'm disappointed, too. There are huge disparities in property taxes even within my condo building near McGinley Square: My next-door neighbor pays $2000 a year less in property taxes than I do, even though our apartments are similar in square footage and condition. I would very much like to see these differences ironed out--and perhaps pay less in taxes as a result.

That said, the now-terminated reval was a joke. It was announced in spring 2010 and was supposed to take 18 months. Three years later, it still wasn't finished. In the interim, market values have fluctuated widely in different neighborhoods. How you could get consistent valuations for homes through such a drawn-out process was a mystery to me. Here's hoping that Fulop does a new reval and does it right.

Posted on: 2013/6/25 17:08
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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RUinHamiltonPark wrote:


Instead of griping about who is paying what, how about asking why we ALL pay higher taxes than people in suburbs who aren't afraid to send their kids to school.


Because my taxes are lower than they would be in a lot of suburbs with a home of a similar value or even lesser value? I could have a house in South Orange or Maplewood that costs less than my current place and my taxes would be way, way more.

Posted on: 2013/6/25 16:32
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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This is actually pretty fair. He has a good point- prices in Sandy effected places- which is most of downtown and lots of other places including Port Liberte, Society Hill, and Country Village are not going to be the same.

Further, as to the "free-loader" comment, I live in a newer building where my taxes are abated but still too high (even according to the assessor) based on the price I paid. However, with the recent resurge in prices they are more in line with the value.

So basically, we all know freeloader is code for downtown, particularly those who are long time owners or those who got short sales or those with abatements or whatever the logic du jour is, and only those people who were effected by Sandy (if them, because prices have been going up in buildings that had problems too) will get a break.

Instead of griping about who is paying what, how about asking why we ALL pay higher taxes than people in suburbs who aren't afraid to send their kids to school.

Posted on: 2013/6/25 16:28
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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jcguy05 wrote:
Garbage everywhere, crimes unstoppable, grand developments left abandoned with no enforcement from the city and an unmanageable budget.

Out of all the issues jersey city has, the new mayor decides to waste his time and effort to stop the freeloaders from paying their fair share of tax.

This is very disappointing.



It's actually the "Mayor-elect" as he hasn't taken office yet.

Also, you likely missed the headlines but as Mayor-elect he has already increased the next police class size as well as stated a desire to increase future classes, stated that police will be back to "walking the beat" which was all but eliminated under Healy, removed free-driving privileges for 58 city employees with cars (saving $$$), and aside from the detailed platform he laid out (http://stevenfulop.com/platform), a "See-click-fix" initiative is going to be taking off, which would address the micro issues residents face such as overflowing garbage cans, etc.

signed: a freeloader.

Posted on: 2013/6/25 16:00
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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I think it is legitimate to question how this contract was awarded.

However, property does have to be revalued eventually, and even when you sort out the corruption, misconduct, incompetence, etc, it will only be more of a shock if it is delayed further.

From a political perspective, if the reval was just finished in due course, I think most people would realize that Fulop was not to blame (although they may expect him to undo certain things that can't be undone).

Posted on: 2013/6/25 15:51
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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jcguy05 wrote:
Garbage everywhere, crimes unstoppable, grand developments left abandoned with no enforcement from the city and an unmanageable budget.

Out of all the issues jersey city has, the new mayor decides to waste his time and effort to stop the freeloaders from paying their fair share of tax.

This is very disappointing.




Bad move. It's time some of these people start paying their fair share. It's also time some of these people can get the tax relief they deserve. Finish IT!!!

Posted on: 2013/6/25 15:50
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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jcguy05 wrote:
Garbage everywhere, crimes unstoppable, grand developments left abandoned with no enforcement from the city and an unmanageable budget.

Out of all the issues jersey city has, the new mayor decides to waste his time and effort to stop the freeloaders from paying their fair share of tax.

This is very disappointing.



Agreed. Now what? Is it going to be another 25 years? Now I regret I declined the attorneys letters I got this spring telling me they could appeal my taxes since I was paying way too much on a recent purchase. I figured why bother with a reval in the works?

Posted on: 2013/6/25 15:42
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Garbage everywhere, crimes unstoppable, grand developments left abandoned with no enforcement from the city and an unmanageable budget.

Out of all the issues jersey city has, the new mayor decides to waste his time and effort to stop the freeloaders from paying their fair share of tax.

This is very disappointing.


Posted on: 2013/6/25 15:28
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Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval

By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal The Jersey Journal
on June 25, 2013 at 3:05 PM, updated June 25, 2013 at 3:09 PM

Jersey City Mayor-elect Steve Fulop today ordered the West New York company conducting a citywide revaluation to halt work immediately, and said he would audit the firm’s work because of its ties to a former city business administrator.

Fulop, who attacked outgoing Mayor Jerramiah Healy on the campaign trail for ordering the reval, today called the process “flawed,” saying in a statement from his office that it will result in tax hikes homeowners cannot afford.

Full JJ piece....

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... e_reval.html#incart_river

Posted on: 2013/6/25 15:14
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