Jesus Christ how many memorials do we need. Besides, Liberty State Park already has the Grove of Remembrance. And what's gonna happen when the next terroroist act happens? Another memorial next to the first memorial?

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Make no mistake, billions are being made from Katrina. The current wave of vultures have a cloak of legitimacy. The "I SURVIVED KATRINA" T-shirts will come in time. Think of it as an ecosystem where if a niche is unfilled, something will evolve to fill it..

Yes brewster, this is all true and people have been making money off disasters and horrific events since the dawn of time.
One would hope that as man gets older and wiser he would have developed better moral values.

The way things are going, I expect to see in the future people marketing the remains of a tragic school bus wreck, whereby one can purchase pieces of the bus.

I'm still surprised that the devastation after hurricane Katrina isn't marketed better for someone to make some money - its interesting how people can pick and chose what they can make money from and what people will chose to spend money on.

I'm on no high horse, just pointing out how parts of society behaves and that a plastic souvenir made in China that commemorates a tragic incident doesn't do it for me.
It would be better if a day was highlighted every year where people could attend a church, mosque, synagogue or even a bar to reflect on an incident.

I much prefer the minute silence that we do on the 11th month of the 11th day on the 11th hour - much more powerful with flags lowered and (most) traffic coming to a stop.

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The freedom to be tacky is as old as the republic. The brits thought we were in jolly bad taste to ask them to leave. But we sure as hell didn't invent it. People have been selling pieces of wood as bits of the true cross for 2000 years, not to mention the purported bones of saints and chunks of the hanging noose of celebrity executionees in 18th century London. Morbid bad taste goes back to the ancient egyptians, so get off your high horse.

Point taken, It must be a western thing - the Brits are guilty with Princess Dianna - The people who make all the money off disasters should be forced to pay higher taxes or go to church everyday for a year to seek forgiveness.

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Hey watch it, Aussie. Unfair! You've earned all of our good graces with your down-underness and normally on target comments (to me at least) but that was a cheap shot.

Happens all over the world -- people make a dollar off a tragedy. There is an entire culture thriving off Princess Diana, for crying out loud. Okay, not entirely the same, but you get the point. Sucks, I agree, but it's not limited to the USA.

I can't comment on the real topic at hand here because it makes me really annoyed/aggravated/sad but I had to check you on the America dig.

Feeling very patriotic tonight...gotta go watch some BBC or something now...

I've seen it all now 9-11 coins, vehicle stickers and magnets, posters and t-shirts just to name a few things connected to this terrorist act.

The 9-11 attack has turned into a money making industry and I feel this memorial is going to feed that industry.

Only in America, what a shame!

Speaking of monstrosities blocking the skyline, any chance of getting this removed or relocated?

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Woops, I guess I should have Wikipedia'd! Particularly bad since the Soviets were to blame for the Nazi slaughter in Warsaw.

And sorry, but Coulter is a crackwhore who'd sell her mother for a headline.

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Ann Coulter, my hero.

The only one with the balls to speak the truth, while the all the politicians cow-tow to the "victim's families" lobby.

Regarding my city of birth - it is Warsaw, and I was talking about Warsaw Uprising during WWII. It was actually 260,000 people killed in 63 days by the German forces, 90% of the victims being civilians.

Warsaw had about 1 million inhabitants then.

The memorials in Warsaw are modest in size and cost, but incredibly moving.

So, let's put things in perspective, people. I am not advocating not to honor 9/11 victims - 2,000 innocents were mass-murdered. The event permanently changed the world.

But a $500 million WTC memorial? Putting ugly, imposing, kitschy memorials all over the place? Impacting JC residents with the "memorial" in LSP without even a consultation?

Is it 9/11 that gave them (ie State and the victim's families) that mandate that has no checks and balances?

I don't think so.

I support FOLSP, and I advocate a more modest in size, but a very moving, memorial.

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I believe the memorial at Exchange Place is a city memorial. Liberty State Park is a state park and the memorial is a memorial for the 700 or so people from all over the state who died that day.

The funding I believe is a combination of state funds and private donations

What about a memorial for the troops that have died in Afghanistan and Iraqi - and are still being killed today?
What about a memorial for the troops that died in Dessert Storm.
I understand that this is close to home, but isn't there a memorial for 9/11 located between the ferry terminal and Exchange Place (PATH) already or is Cityhall more interested in making the proposed memorial a tourist attraction?

It's a 'touchy subject' but JC could spend the money on its infrastructure and social issues - hang on, where is the money coming from - if someone is giving it to Cityhall as a donation then build the thing, but I heard JC was close to being pennyless.

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Is the Freedom Tower a phallic symbol?

i think the best memorial to the families that lost loved ones would be to create a shining, good natured city across the river from ground zero that is free of crime, litter and corruption.

on that note - healy needs a bigger broom.

Notice how no one who actually will be seeing this thing regularly supports it? "The Families" will visit it once a year for a while, then move on. But we'll be saddled with it forever. The howling about removing "tilted Arc" would be nothing compared to getting rid of this once it was in place. At least Tilted Arc was at ground level, not on a pedestal.

injcsince81: thanks for answering the question hanging from the "projects" thread about where you emigrated from. Yes, Americans aren't equiped to deal with the realities of the Siege of Stalingrad, or the tens of millions of civilians the USSR lost in that war. Our idea of civilian sacrifice then was rationing of meat and sugar, now it's to keep shopping.

I was born in a city that lost 2,000 people EVERY DAY FOR 120 DAYS during 3 months of WWII.

That's 120 times more people that died on 9/11 for a city 1/10th size of NYC. They endured their 9/11 every day for 120 days.

Do they have memorials? Sure - some very moving bronze statues, some modest plaques on the streets where people were mass-murdered...

Nobody ever forgot these 3 months. The heroes (true heroes, children who attacked Nazi tanks with grenades, not accidental 9/11 office worker victims) live in the memories of the people, and in the consciousness of the new generations.

$1 billion for a WTC memorial in NYC? Please. This money can be better spent elsewhere.

Ugly, huge, invasive 9/11 memorials everywhere else? Please. Totally tasteless, and totally missing the point.

The self importance of the 9/11 victim's families and the political clout they wield is staggering, and to me, unwelcome.

Enough already.

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Here's my two cents:

There is no need for any "memorial" of any kind,
neither nice nor nasty.

There is not a chance that anyone will forget
September 11th; therefore we need no
physical reminders or mementos mori.

Such things are generally in embarrassingly poor taste,
and they tend to make people more angry and ashamed than reflective.

Skip the whole thing, and spend the money on
feeding the hungry and medically treating the sick.

But I don't get it, what does a giant crooked vagina have to do with 9/11?

Liberty State Park will host public hearing on placement of 30-foot design


Ricardo Kaulessar
Reporter staff writer 07/28/2006

The state will hold a public hearing on Aug. 16 so residents can comment on the prospect of a 30-foot high 9/11 memorial in Liberty State Park in Jersey City.

This past spring, the Friends of Liberty State Park (FOLSP), a volunteer organization dedicated to the park's preservation, requested a public hearing on the state memorial, to be erected at the northern end of the park.

Last week, the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection, which oversees state parks, notified FOLSP President Sam Pesin that the group could hold a public hearing on Aug. 16 in the park at 6:30 p.m. near the memorial site.

In case of rain, the meeting will be held in the CRRNJ train terminal a few hundred feet from the memorial site.

The memorial, titled "Empty Sky," will be made up of two 30-foot high and 200-foot long stainless steel walls perched on a 10-foot high grassy knoll. A jury chose it out of 320 entries submitted in 2004 as part of the New Jersey Memorial Design Competition, which former Gov. James McGreevey initiated.

Wants more choices

New York City architect Frederic Schwartz designed the memorial, and its construction cost $10.5 million.

The memorial has met with opposition because the 10-foot high knoll portion blocks the Manhattan skyline.

"It's a sacred view of downtown New York City, especially in light of what happened on Sept. 11," said Pesin, pointing out that the park was a center to medically treat those who were injured in the terrorist attacks at the World Trade Center.

Pesin said the lack of public input in choosing the memorial will be addressed at the meeting.

"We think a resolution could be found by the state revising the design or convincing state officials to revisit the eight final designs that were narrowed from the 320 submissions," said Pesin. "Then out of those eight, the public can choose two or three that would then be given to the victims' families for a final choice."

The public have their say



Pesin intends to invite Gov. Jon Corzine (who lives in Hoboken), DEP Commissioner Lisa Jackson, and other state officials to the public meeting. He also will invite representatives for the families of 9/11 victims.

"The families want this built as soon as possible but we hope they are patient," said Pesin. "There should not be a rush, there should be a consensus."

Pesin also remarked on the progress the public has made in this issue.

"At the end of February and March, when we started to contact state officials, they never showed any intention to hold a meeting," said Pesin. "I think they are now open to getting more public input."

Tanya Chauhan was among the members who wrote to the state asking them to hold a hearing.

Chauhan lives with her husband and daughter a few blocks from Liberty State Park. In an April 27 e-mail to the state, Chauhan mentioned that she was a "Jersey City resident, a 9/11 survivor, and a frequent user of Liberty State Park" who was "greatly disturbed at the plan for a hill in the front of the park."

She added, "First the Twin Towers were taken away, and now the great view of downtown New York is being taken away."

Politicians ask, but state backs it



Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy and State Assemblyman Louis Manzo (D-31st Dist.) also sent letters to Corzine addressing the need for a public meeting. As a result of the uproar over the lack of public input, Manzo drafted legislation to ensure that there will always be public meetings on any changes to a state park.

DEP Commissioner Lisa Jackson e-mailed a letter to Pesin on Thursday reiterating her support for the memorial to continue being built as planned.

Jackson stated that "Based on my review of the process and the project design, I have decided to support the completion of the memorial as presently designed."

Jackson pointed out that the day after the June 13 meeting, there was another meeting with a memorial committee of 9/11 survivors and families of victims to review the design, discuss the current status of construction, and gauge if family members willing to accept changes to the design.

She states in the letter, "It was the consensus of those family members present that this project should move forward as designed and that they did not want to delay this Memorial to their loved ones and the many victims of September 11, 2001 any longer."

Pesin took Jackson to task for making her decision before the public meeting takes place.

"The Friends formally disagrees with the commissioner's position is now asking the governor directly to listen to public input and reverse this decision," said Pesin. "Lisa Jackson's premature decision violates the spirit of democracy."

For more information on the meeting and about the memorial controversy, check www.folsp.org or call (201) 792-1993.

It could have been much worse...

Maybe this will be the Healy legacy - stopping oversized memorials from being built in Jersey City.

I hope this thing gets stopped. Has anybody realized that the design is flawed? It's suppose to focus out vision onto the empty hole left behind by the wtc. Great. It will do that...for about 2 or 3 years. Then when the Freedom Tower is built we will then be focusing on that. No more empty sky.

Maybe if they had open public meetings someone would have thought about that.

An unshared view of 9/11
Jersey City residents and others take issue with design for memorial
Friday, July 28, 2006
BY ANA M. ALAYA
Star-Ledger Staff

New Jersey's planned 9/11 memorial in Liberty State Park is designed to embrace the panorama of Lower Manhattan and Ground Zero, but critics, including the mayor of Jersey City, say the tribute will ruin the view.

"It destroys a natural attraction and a beautiful vista," said Mayor Jerramiah Healy, who recently asked Gov. Jon Corzine to consider a different spot in the park for the memorial.

Jersey City officials have been barraged with calls from residents since crews started dumping soil in the northeastern corner of the park several months ago, Healy said.

State officials say the 20-foot mound will be compacted into a rolling knoll up to 10 feet high in some places. Two stainless-steel walls will rise from it, 30 feet high and 200 feet long, bearing the names of the more than 700 New Jersey residents who died in the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Some contend the memorial will be too big and will mar the view of Lower Manhattan from parts of the park. Some say the modern design will clash with the historic landmarks in the vicinity -- including the Statue of Liberty, Ellis Island and the late-1800s Central Railroad of New Jersey Train Terminal.

Sam Pesin, president of the 800-member volunteer group Friends of Liberty State Park, likens the view of Manhattan from the waterfront park to a "national shrine." He dismisses the state's claims that the process to choose the design was open to the public.

"We feel there should be a public meeting, and we want the hill design revised," Pesin said. "Certainly everyone understands the tremendous pain that the victims' families have, but this is an issue of democracy and a memorial that's going to last generations."

The memorial's design is meant to incorporate the sweeping view, said Lisa Jackson, commissioner of the state Department of Environmental Protection, which is overseeing the project.

The memorial is called Empty Sky, and its walls, set 16 feet apart, are meant to create a visual corridor focusing on the void where the World Trade Center's Twin Towers stood across the Hudson River.

In a letter sent yesterday to the Friends of Liberty State Park, Jackson wrote: "Since the memorial is located in the area of the park where many survivors were evacuated on that day, the New Jersey September 11th Memorial will invite the visitors to literally and metaphorically look to Manhattan's empty sky in memory as they look forward together as a community."

Jackson wrote that victims' family members and officials met in June to discuss Pesin's concerns and decided to keep the existing plan.

Jackson acknowledged architect Frederic Schwartz's design might "impact views from some portions" of the park, but she noted the park has a scenic public walkway more than a mile long.

This is not the first time the memorial has been criticized. Last summer, about two dozen families of 9/11 victims objected to the decision to list the names of the dead in random order.

Nor is the New Jersey memorial the first 9/11 tribute to stir controversy. Jersey City rejected a monument donated by Russian sculptor Zurab Tsereteli amid complaints it was too large and unsightly. Bayonne then took the 106-foot tall steel and bronze work, which features a 40-foot suspended teardrop.

Memorials in Manhattan, Shanksville, Pa., Westchester, N.Y., and New Jersey towns, including Sayreville, have been the subject of battles over everything from location and financing to size and symbols. Disputes include whether to use steel from Ground Zero.

James C. "Rick" Cahill of West Caldwell, who lost his 30-year-old son Patrick on 9/11, said he is disturbed by the controversies. He said he is upset the New Jersey memorial won't be ready for the fifth anniversary of the attacks. Officials said they are hoping construction of the $12million memorial will be done in 2007.

"I'm speechless about this," said Cahill, a member of the Families and Survivors Memorial Committee, which had been appointed by Gov. James E. McGreevey to choose the design. "Many of the 3,000 lost that day, their remains were not found. We have no burial place to go to. I'm planning to go to this memorial on my son's birthday and holidays with my cousins and family members. It will give them a place to see my son's name and overlook the vista of the site."

State officials yesterday disputed claims that the public didn't have a chance to comment on the design. They said there was ample opportunity for comment, including public meetings in 2004.

Pesin said he attended one of those meetings and that they didn't amount to a public hearing on the final design selection. He said he will push the governor's office to hold a hearing. Meanwhile, Pesin's group plans to hold an open meeting Aug. 16.

But Aileen Ryan Burden, a member of the families committee, said it's time to build the memorial. Burden lost her 45-year-old brother, John Joseph Ryan Jr., on 9/11.

"It allows you to remember what was there, sometimes with sorrow, and it allows you to look forward to what's going to be there in the coming years," she said.

To see the Memorial Hill, which isn't a foundation for the two 200 foot long and 30 feet high Walls, please see the architect's website, and for a comparison, there's a link to a photo of my mother with the view of the whole entire skyline view intact.
Just as important as preserving a sacred view of the downtown NYC skyline at the north end of Liberty State Park(and the view of the river on which people were evacuated on 9/11), is that there be an opportunity for the public to express themselves about the consequences of this design at a public meeting on this public memorial in this public park behind Lady Liberty. The Walls will block views also.
Sam
http://www.schwartzarch.com/nj911memorial.htm
http://www.folsp.org/Ethel_at_terminal.jpg

9/11 tribute controversy spurs bill
Tuesday, June 06, 2006
By BONNIE FRIEDMAN
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

A Jersey City lawmaker is hoping to avoid a repeat of the controversy brewing over the state's 9/11 memorial planned for Liberty State Park by crafting state legislation that would require holding public hearings before major changes are approved for state parks.

Assemblyman Louis Manzo, D-Jersey City, drafted the legislation in response to a recent uproar lodged by Friends of Liberty State Park, an advocacy group critical of the memorial - or more precisely, the mound it sits on, which is blocking views of Manhattan.

"Local residents should have a say with regard to the state parks they pay for with their tax dollars and use as recreational outlets, just as they do with the parks at the local level," Manzo said.

"In the instance of the 9/11 memorial at Liberty State Park, while it appears to be unanimous that the memorial is desired, the public should be able to chime in with reference to the nature of the construction as well as its placement within the park."

Sam Pesin, president of Friends of Liberty State Park, praised Manzo's initiative.

"As a champion of public good, Assemblyman Manzo understands that the people have the inherent right to express themselves on projects for publicly owned land," he said. "The DEP doesn't own (parks), people own them."

Several members of Friends of Liberty State Park are expected to meet with Department of Environmental Protection Commissioner Lisa Jackson in the next couple of weeks, Pesin said.

The memorial - called "Empty Sky" - features two 30-foot-high and 200-foot-long stainless steel walls perched on a 10-foot-high grassy knoll.

I believe the subject is a bit misleading.

There is more to this than just the obstruction of the Manhattan view. It's primarily about the lack of a democratic process.

Hell, I'm just glad that ugly sculpture isn't being erected anywhere in JC! (Sorry, Bayonne!)

Please check http://www.folsp.org/interior.htm to see the amazing Interior Restoration plan, moving steadily forward.
After years of the Friends and statewide Coalitions fighting commercialization plans for the park's Interior, the stage was set for a "restoration" of this former freightyard where nature is making a dramatic comeback. The Friends, on the LSP Public Advisory Committee has actively supported the Restoration of a natural area with nature trails. Please read about the plan's details on our website, http://www.folsp.org/interior.htm
There is already over 11 million dollars secured in NJ funds and the plan is on the highest priority list of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and needs about 25 million for the federal match. The project, the largest urban nature Restoration in the nation, will be included in the next Water Resources Development Act that comes up in Congress and such legislation would involve authorization to spend many billions, and so it is very likely that this plan will be started next Spring, and finished within 5 years. There will be trails through a 100 acre forest, salt marsh created by the cutting of a tidal channel connecting the River to the park's Interior, freshwater wetlands, and tall grass habitat.
An athletic field is planned for the SW corner of the park to go over the old pool parking lot. So the park with these plans will be completed, except for 30 million dollars plus to restore the sheds at the Terminal, under which will be space for various ideas such as extra space for festivals, a green market, a few old trains, and a people mover connecting ferry lot to Terminal.
But new commercialization plans, opposed by the overwhelming majority since the park opened 30 years ago, may still be pushed forward so people who care about the park will need to be forever vigilant to protect this great urban open space waterfront state park behind Lady Liberty.

The Friends of Liberty State Park Statement on the Need for Public Meeting on the 9/11 Memorial at Liberty State Park The State of NJ should already have had a public meeting at LSP on the design of the 9/11 Memorial, which blocks the historic view shed of NYC. There never was a public meeting on this major addition to our urban state park, one of America?s most important public spaces. It is totally un-American that there hasn?t been a public meeting in the public park behind Lady Liberty, the world?s greatest symbol of democracy. The exclusionary design process was an unconscionable disservice to LSP?s users and future. It?s late but not too late at all, to avert a design disaster for all present and future LSP users who have a right to the skyline View Shed that is too sacred to be destroyed. The Friends have recently heard from a couple of hundred angry and shocked regular park users who have seen the view blocking Hill; some of them are 9/11 survivors who escaped from the attacked Towers and who lost friends that terrible day. When they saw the Hill being built, they found out about the Hill?s and the Wall?s height. They and all park users and members of the public deserve to have and must have public input. We feel that the design, as in NYC and in any other democracy-respecting local or state must have public input, especially with the NYC skyline being such an important part of LSP. At the Friends? Spring meeting on 5/20, there was unanimity in calling for an urgent public meeting. The consensus comments in an intense discussion focused on the obliteration of the skyline view by the Memorial. A survivor said that the attack destroyed people and the design destroys the crucial skyline view, which had been one of the world?s best and most meaningful views. The Memorial tremendously detracts from a sacred aspect of LSP, and FAILS NJ?s ?Memorial Design Competition criterion (www.state.nj.us/nj911memorial/qanda) of "integrating the Memorial elements with New York City, New York Harbor, Statue of Liberty, Ellis Island, Liberty State Park, the Memorial tree grove, Morris Canal and the State of New Jersey?" ?The Jury will be considering how the proposals complement the physical context of the Park and the region?. People felt this design is way out of scale and violates LSP?s and the historic 1889 CRRNJ Terminal?s integrity. Most people agreed that a Memorial is appropriate. We ask NJ and the architect to eliminate the 10 plus foot hill, and to change the design into a flat open space. The green open space is compatible with the park and the design criteria and doesn?t cause egregious harm to the park user experience.. The overwhelming majority has always wanted a green open space waterfront park and to enjoy the dramatic and spectacular views. The Hill diminishes LSP. The Hill cuts off the skyline view for Zapp Drive drivers, ferry tourists and anyone using the N. Field for passive recreation. One of the most active park volunteers stated Saturday, that in Japanese landscaping, a key principle is to borrow the beautiful and screen out the ugly, but that here the opposite would happen with the Hill, as the powerful, meaningful and inspiring is screened out. ? Memorial Hill would take away a sacred, powerful, scenic View Shed, the closest and best view in the world of downtown NYC. People driving up Zapp Drive will see a Hill instead of one of the best views in the world of the full skyline. It's like the misguided Vietnam War philosophy of burning a village to save it. The Hill destroys a sacred view from its western side, in order to honor the view. ? State Senator Bernard Kenny, Jr. the state's Majority Leader, in a recent filmed statement declared "in and of itself, the vista of lower Manhattan is a national shrine?. This Memorial robs the public of the national shrine of the view ? The Hill eliminates the beloved and inspiring straight ahead views of the skyscrapers from top to bottom, including Ground Zero area buildings, and also the views of the boats in the Hudson River as one drives or walks up Zapp Drive. It was on that river that the living and dead were transported to LSP on 9/11. Below is an email sent to NJDEP Commissioner Lisa Jackson by a 9/11 survivor. From: "Tanya Chauhan" <tanya.chauhan@gmail.com> To: Lisa.Jackson@dep.state.nj.us Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:39:49 -0400 Subject: Liberty State Park 9/11 Memorial Dear Commissioner Jackson, I am a Jersey City resident, 9/11 survivor and frequent user of Liberty State Park. I am writing today to express my concern over the planned >9/11 memorial for the prime location of LSP. I am greatly disturbed at the plan for a hill in the front of the park. First the Twin Towers were taken away and now the great view of downtown NY is being taken away. While I read the original articles regarding the planned memorial I had no indication that there would be a hill blocking this magnificent view as a part of the memorial. In fact my memory of the descriptions was that they highlighted the view. I was working in the WTC on 9/11, I have co-workers and friends who died on 9/11 and I respect their memories, those of their families and those of all of us who survived that horrible day. I also love Liberty State Park. I love its openness and views of NYC. I try to go to the park at least weekly. I have volunteered on projects that support the park and made donations to the park. It is an important part of>the Lafayette neighborhood, Jersey City and New Jersey as a whole. It draws visitors from around the world for its amazing views and overall beauty. The planned hill destroys these views. Please work with the plan architect and whoever else needs to be involved, hopefully including the neighboring communities to ensure that this does not happen. Best Regards, Tanya Chauhan Below is the letter to the Governor by Ruth Conrad, the widow of the late Ted Conrad, one of the founders of Liberty State Park May 10, 2006 The Honorable Jon S. Corzine Governor of New Jersey PO. Box 001 Trenton, NJ, 08625 Dear Sir, On Sunday, May 7, 2006, I attended the 30th birthday party for Liberty State Park. As the widow of one of the co-founders of the park, Theodore Conrad, the park is very dear to me. To my horror I discovered, that somebody in Trenton decided to spoil the main beauty of the park, namely the magnificent view of the river and the skyline of New York, including of the site where the World Trade Towers once stood. If you tried, you could not design a more moving memorial to the victims of 9/11, than to just ride down Audrey Zapp Drive , having the reminder of that horrible day in front of you. I became aware, that there war a hill, covering the whole lawn next to the old Railroad Terminal and learned, that the plan includes to put two stainless steel slabs of 30by 200 on top of this hill. I wish you could take a trip to the park and I am sure, you would agree with me, that this whole idea is just too horrible . I understand, that the whole project was done without any public hearings, in other words, it was just stuffed down our throats. The only solution to this catastrophy is, for you to give an order to stop it immediately and to tear down that hill. Morris Pesin and my husband must be turning in their graves and so, I am sure must be the victims of 9/11. I am looking forward to hearing from you with the news, that you have stopped this atrocity. Yours truly, Ruth Conrad