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Just can't stay away
 
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No offense, but not sure I get it. That's virtually the same title. If you want uncluttered, no thread creep or other kinda creeps, I think you'll have to get the GA to enforce that. Then again, perhaps that's one of the reasons they don't wanna get involved on an internet list. I can relate. Now, can someone tell me where I can get a red beret and jacket?
Posted on: 2006/2/16 12:02
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Home away from home
 
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Just thinking that perhaps a new thread should be started to discuss all the other important issues not directly related to the title of this thread, which is "The Guardian Angels are Coming to Downtown". It's getting cluttered in here.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 22:04
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Re: Sliwa's Jersey City visit postponed
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Home away from home
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Wow, you sure are one busy person!
The Teen Summit was mentioned at the last City Council meeeting, and I wonder if the councilmen/women are aware of the tomorrow's meeting. Though if I remember correctly, Council Pres. Vega said that "[they] all have day jobs" and can't attend events during the week, but that he sure would try. I personally can't go, but it would be nice if we could get a report here on JCList. Maybe someone should contact the Guardian Angels (OneSkirt?) and invite them to the summit? I can't think of a better way for the GA to reach JC teens directly. As for Sumisibol, they are a great bunch. I've met with some of the founders (are you one of them?), and I can vouch for their passion for working with teens. They also work with teens of all ethnicities, particularly through their college prep forums/programs for HS teens. By the way, I believe the correct URL is http://sumisibol.org
Posted on: 2006/2/15 20:52
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Thanks JC Insomniac! I remember you! I left you a message. If anyone can patrol at least once, it really helps. Thanks again for coming out. I"m helping another group (Duane from CBA).do a school patrol for the kids to and from school (our neighborhood watch can reach out to other neighborhoods). If anyone is interested in helping with the Teen crimewatch, please attend the Teen Summit tomorrow, Thursday the 16th at 10am at Lincoln High School. Meet with the other community organizations and teens to discuss safety for our local youth. Also, please check out another organization helping Filipino American teens in Jersey City, www.sumisibol.com. Currently, they are runnning a program for teens at the Jersey Museum. Email them if you can volunteer for the June event or if you can make a donation. Thanks!
Posted on: 2006/2/15 20:43
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Home away from home
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Hello pchops,
We met a few months ago during one of the midnight drives around downtown JC. I used to receive emails from JCNWA but have not received anything lately. I couldn't attend last Monday's meeting, but I am still very interested in helping out. Please keep me in the loop and let me/us know when that internal meeting is scheduled for. I will do my best to attend, schedule permitting. Minnie & pchops, I think it would serve everyone's goals best if you coordinated with pchops. Let me know how I can help.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 19:53
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Home away from home
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I won;t be able to respond to everyone as I only have limited computer access. At any rate, when I spoke of the patrol, I looked directly at the GA rep, and pointed at him that we would work together on weekly patrols. At this point, I thought he would say somethin but he nodded me away. So I thought that he felt he shouldn't get into then. At any rate, I think since time is valuable that a one hour meeting with the GA and Patrolling should be dedicated solely for them. In response to another person, the photos I was sharing with the GA were photos that one of the founding members took of our local dealers. You can find out more at the internal meeting.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 18:32
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Hello. I'm one of the organizers of the Neighborhood Watch and I certainly appreciate all the comments on the last meeting. It's just a handful of us that keep up with this watch so it can be difficult to structure. We're certainly not perfect and treat everything as a work in progress. If you can help us, please come to our internal meeting.
I hope everyone gave me their email addresses so we can meet offline. If you did not, please email us at jcnwa@comcast.net. Please note that there's a couple of us that respond to that email. First of all, I was not at the January meeting but I was told that the GA member was in attendance and discussed patrolling. That GA member and I were in touch about recent events however I was not aware that he was invited to speak. I was not even aware, though he and I talked all weekend, about the reschedule of the Sliwa visit the following day. I was under the impression that they would comment when they wanted to. When people raised their hands, I would point to the other organizer to recognize them and let them speak. So I deeply apologize for the miscommunication. We could definitely organize a separate meeting just for the Guardian Angels to speak. Again, I repeat, we do need help in organizing, making copies, finding a location, etc. So please please please email us. I will set up an internal meeting later next week. Ideally, the meeting with the police is to address immediate concerns and find out if there were any arrests. We also alert the police of specific hot spots. There's some big picture discussion and small picture discussion and there's a challenge in moving the meeting along. Some people want to spend a lot of time on the bigger picture of the crime solutions and others want to spend a lot of time on their personal situation. Both are very important. Now, there's a lot of police bashing at these meetings. We understand the need to express discourse with our Captain and there's a need for him to protect his officers at the same time. But we also have to balance it out in a timely fashion. So if you want to help us balance this, please come to the internal meeting. After many meetings, we decided that we need to use the Captain's time wisely and finding out about recent crime areas and arrests are the immediate concerns. At this meeting, if you were a victim of a crime, you will find out about the arrest. That's where the meeting with the police can be helpful. However, there are many times where there are no arrests and we have to move foward. And that can be disappointing. Prevention - I think we need to discuss this more at the meetings. I tried to interject, based on our experience what are some things we can do. I am in charge of new members. I'm concerned about people who have immediate needs. If you're house is burning, the I will bring a bucket of water and I will knock on all doors til everyone brings a bucket of water. Are we the fire department? No. Can we put the fire out? Maybe. Maybe not. Can we try? sure. I believe in Patrolling and discussing Prevention. But a lot of people come to the meetings and talk a big talk. But when I need people to ride with me in my car at midnight, a couple of people show up. And mostly those people were from JC List. Now, should we discuss this in the same meeting with the Police and the Councilman? I'm not sure. I know when we invite people to internal meetings, it's the same four people. So, can you help us out a bit? So here's what we need: an internal meeting late next week or early the following week (Oneskirt - if we can combine forces) a meeting with the Guardian Angels as a guest speaker (need help with location) downtown patrol (car or foot) week of the 21st (7-9pm) other things we need your help in: someone to make copies i have limited computer access and Bright Moments does an amazing job communicating as much as he can via jclist, but we could use some help someome to make phone calls and check up on our member's crime concerns (some victims are still scared) I could go....let's talk more offline! THANKS!
Posted on: 2006/2/15 18:18
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Home away from home
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Dang, I love that beer too! Gonna miss it in a month or two. 
Posted on: 2006/2/15 17:50
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Quite a regular
 
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Yeah, you make a good point. I was thirsty when I wrote this and have had the bourbon cask ale on my mind for a few days now. According to VVNW, the only place that will offer free space for meetings like this is Grace Church. If there was space in the Van Vorst area, then they would hold their monthly meetings actually in the Van Vorst neighborhood.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 17:47
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Home away from home
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You should come to the meeting we're gonna have then because you obvioulsy don't understand their mission and how they operate. They are hardly vigilante. They are not the same group that they were in the 70s. If you'd invest sometime talking to them, you'd learn this. So either educate yourself before spouting off, or be quiet. (and yes, I've lived here for over 10 yrs. in downtown...it's getting bad again and we need help)
Posted on: 2006/2/15 17:43
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Home away from home
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Yes, you're on. Please help me find space (evening would be best). Then I can tell Mike when and where he can get space, and he and I will set it up. It would be open to anyone who wanted to come to learn about them and their mission, ask questions, and raise suggestions. They want a dialogue with us and they are willing to help as much as they can.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 17:39
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I was just trying to make a point i just dont like the idea of a vigilanty group going around playing cop. I can see them harassing people that look "suspicous" that probably are harmless i feel they should just let the police handle crime besides from my experience the people that "think" they are helping are the ones that end up the victim of a crime.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 17:33
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Home away from home
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Would Chris allow this? It would need to be a 'meeting' type of space, free of people making noise and wandering in and out.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 17:32
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If you want them to go to Greenville, then ask them. They were asked to come to Downtown JC. I for one, am glad that they have decided to set up shop in JC. I saw them on the PATH last night.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 17:18
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"Here comes the Irishman to take all you guinea's money."- Goodfellas |
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Im very against the angels if they really want to patrol a crime infested neighborhood go through The Hill (Greenville)
along Jackson ave (MLK) or communipaw. DownTown has lower crime stats then alot of neighborhoods. It seems like they have nothing better to do. I used to live in DownTown and ill tell you its the best I have seen it in a while but the people that always complain about DownTown are the new residents that moved in within the last 7 or 8 years from Hoboken and Manhatten.These new residents are always complaining about somthing.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 16:28
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At the meeting Monday night, there were 2 sheets of papers that were passed to a select few and the Guardian Angels. These 2 pages had pictures of various individuals. Who are they? Should we be on the lookout for them? What do they look like? Sorry I can't tell ya, I wasn't part of the elite group allowed to see this info at a Neighborhood Watch Meeting. With the way the meeting was held, I wasn't suprised to see only about a dozen or so people there. Seems more like a little clique than a neighborhood watch.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 16:21
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Re: Sliwa's Jersey City visit postponed
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Home away from home
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It's called Politics!
Posted on: 2006/2/15 16:19
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Home away from home
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You go girl! People have been complaining about the lack of police presence in downtown and I've often wondered where the majority of cops were being sent to patrol? People have been complaining about the open-air drug market on Wayne St., and I've often wondered why this area was being overlooked? I know that the city would like to make the other parts of JC more attractive to investors so what would happen if pressure were put on the dealers on Wayne St? would they move into the other parts of town; the area they are trying to clean up? Could that be the reason why Wayne St. is business as usual? I could be wrong, but there must be a reason and so far, nobody has been able to answer it. I agree that all parts of JC need more police patrol and everyone wants to see beat cops, but if we don?t have enough cops and the Guardian Angels are offering their help, then I say ?welcome Guardian Angels?. Oneskirt, if you are up to hosting a public evening meeting for the downtown residents to attend... I applaud you. I?ll even help you find a suitable location.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 16:18
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Quite a regular
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I'm a little surprised that Steve doesn't want the GA here. Not surprised about Troy not wanting them. What's up with Troy and the Chicken Little comment, though?
Posted on: 2006/2/15 16:00
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I would hardly consider the areas immediately surrounding Dixon Mills "the most affluent part of Jersey City." While not the worst, it is FAR from being considered prosperous. I am certain that the government officials in New York City were not too happy about the appearance of the Guardian Angels either, it put emphasis on the fact that they were not adequately protecting the citizens of NYC. Healy and Troy should feel the same way--I hope they are embarrassed...they should be! I have not seen a bike cop or officer on foot patrol in my neighborhood (the infamous Wayne and Barrow) since before Healy was elected. Until the JCPD gets their act together and makes some major changes, I welcome the Guardian Angels to Jersey City!
Posted on: 2006/2/15 15:45
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Quite a regular
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Barrow Street Bar and Grill.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 15:40
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Home away from home
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Exactly. They are volunteers and they came here because they were asked. Anyone can ask. Don't knock any volunteer help we can get. We need it anywhere and everywhere we can get it. If the community would host a meeting where the GAs could speak to us and answer questions/concerns, it would really help everyone. I am willing to help organize this meeting. Mike says the GAs are more than happy to do this with the community - in fact they think it would be a good idea. Does anyone know where we can get a space to use?
Posted on: 2006/2/15 15:37
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Home away from home
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The Guardian Angels is patroling around the Dixon Deli because the owner's husband is a former member of the Guardian Angels and his friends invited them. That is the only reason. It has nothing to do with politics and it has nothing to do with Downtown.
If anybody else wants the Guardian Angels in their neighborhood, they can invite them.
Posted on: 2006/2/15 15:19
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Re: Sliwa's Jersey City visit postponed
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Just can't stay away
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I really don't know what to say when I read this article. Perhaps when the coffee trickles into my brain I will have some thoughts:
http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/jerse ... 39998311211250.xml&coll=3
Posted on: 2006/2/15 14:36
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Home away from home
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Let me clarify more about what I meant. And let me start by saying that I know nothing about this group, it's politics, infighting, or other stuff that may or may not occur. Nor do I care (and I don't mean that in a rude way, it just doesn't interest me). So my opinions come as an objective outsider, a resident of downtown for 10 yrs.
I agree with everything Bixlo said. But how are we going to change these meeting is the person running them doesn't let anyone get a word in edgewise, but just runs trhough lists for 60 mins.? I think that statistics are useful, to a point. But they should not have been the focus of the meeting. Entirely too much time was wasted on stats, arguing about stats back and forth (before Bright Moment asked his important question that really got to the point of 45-60 mins. of that stuff), and rehashing crime that already happened with the Captain reading responses off his notes. Yes, there is a place for this sort of stuff in a meeting like this, but it should never take more than 15 mins. Again, I would have liked to have heard discussion about what can be done (or is being done) to improve things, or how we as residents can help. Without that, these meetings are a waste of time. Also, I didn't feel the person running the meeting was aware of time, or really interested in what anyone else may have wanted to say or giving ample time to the group to do so. Perhaps I am wrong in my assessment but this is how I felt as a new attendee. I didn't come to watch her volley back and forth with the Captain over things that already happened. I came to hear about what we can do together to make things better and safer. Oh, and someone who helped organize the meeting invited the GAs there so that person is responsible for introducing them, and giving them a chance to speak. They came as a favor (especially the guys from Manhattan), and to not at least introduce them AT THE BEGINNING was very rude. Think about it from their perspective. Why should they want to volunteer to help us if they won't even be acknowledged at a meeting they're invited to attend?? Not sure if I want to go back - it was frustrating and felt like my time had been wasted. So if the organizers want more involvement, then they need to take feedback from here (and other sources) and use it. I truly hope they will as I think they could have a much more positive affect this way, which would benefit the entire community.
Posted on: 2006/2/14 23:22
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I would have liked to hear what the guardian angels had to say as well. With that said they could have asked the powers that be beforehand if they could have 5-10 minutes of time to discuss their agenda. From what I heard afterwards the people running the meeting were waiting for the GA's to introduce themselves and the GA's were waiting to be introduced. Perhaps it was just a lack of communication on both of their parts; although proper etiquette dictates that you should always introduce a guest.
In general I am glad I went and I will continue to do so in the future. If anything I find it productive to discuss these issues face to face to build awareness. It was also nice to meet brightmoment too. Perhaps I think too highly of this list but I do not feel that it should be snubbed from crime stats. Besides newspapers I cannot think of a better medium to relay information. They mentioned that this crime group has 80 members last night; I would bet that this number pales in comparison to this list. If we are dealing with public safety no outlet should be ignored. Captain McDonough last night mentioned that the perceived increase in crime is due to the Jersey Journal and JClist. Obviously he knows the value of both of these forums and he should know that we are only going to talk about what information is given to us.
Posted on: 2006/2/14 15:19
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Being the first to arrive (door was still closed) I got to chat with the GA's who were second to arrive (followed by Fulop and BrightMoments - can I just say here that I would never have guessed BrightMoments that that was you? You were so frequently annoying with your posts here but I found you in person to be nothing like that and only realized who you were today by your post.. in any case, I think I will view your posts diff'rently now.. ha ha..)
anyway.. I got to talk to Mike from the GA's and he was so enthusiastic about everything that they would like to start up in JC and everything that they have done in the past in various places, especially for the kids. I was shocked, SHOCKED then to find that at the meeting they were all but ignored. There were plenty of times where the segue to introduce them was perfect but no one did. I found it amusing that the 'prinicipals' rattled on about all of the community patrols they do themselves and never once took an opinion or sought advice from the professionals that sat right behind them. I'm sad to say I walked out quite disappointed. The only thing that really hit was Dwayne (was that his name?) talking about his programs for youth in JC and the diff'rent approaches they are trying on the kids I realized that I might not have had the best approach towards the kids on our block. That was also a perfect opportunity for the GA's to talk about all of the programs they have for kids but we were out of time because we spent too much of it going over crimes from last month that we all, for the most part, already knew about.. the agenda shouldn't be about going over past crimes in detail.. save that for the emails to people that are signed up for them.. the agenda should have been more about being proactive.. advice from the GA's.. volunteering with the youth programs.. ideas on being PROACTIVE.. but maybe that's just me.. Don't get me wrong, last night was very important, more people should come out and share ideas and experiences and maybe then we'll have something a bit more 'productive' so when you leave you feel inspired and hopeful.. we need more input.. it was great hearing the locals talk about their experiences.. so make the effort and show up.. let's see where this could go because it isn't going far just yet..
Posted on: 2006/2/14 15:16
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Home away from home
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I think overall crime is going down downtown -- since last year. Fulop could put the last year 2005 on his map also -- then we all could know one way or the other.
-------------------------------------------- Sliwa's Jersey City visit postponed Monday, February 13, 2006 By CRAIG GARRETSON Yesterday was a day for snow angels, not Guardian Angels. Curtis Sliwa and other members of the volunteer crime-fighting organization were due to come to Jersey City yesterday to speak to Downtown business owners and residents about plans to patrol the area, but the snow left Sliwa grounded in Florida, said Mike Principe, a member of the organization. Principe, a Downtown resident, said Sliwa will likely come to Jersey City tomorrow, weather permitting. Sliwa told The Jersey Journal last week that Downtown patrols would begin after he met with residents and business owners. Sliwa, who founded the Guardian Angels in 1979, told The Jersey Journal he'd been considering a new chapter for Jersey City, but took action now because of two attacks on women last week in Downtown. One of the women attacked was Sonia Vega, the wife of City Council President Mariano Vega; the other was Dixon Deli owner Mirna Moreira, whose husband, Mario, is a former Guardian Angel. Both women were robbed and assaulted, but neither was seriously injured.
Posted on: 2006/2/14 13:33
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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Home away from home
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Hey OneSkirt, nice to meet you, SkaDave and Neeners tonight. Thanks for coming out even if, and I agree, it was disappointing for the way the mtg was conducted. I agree with most of what you say here, particularly embarassing I thought, was that the GA's were never acknowledged, welcomed or introduced officially left me with my mouth open. And as I related to you and the other JCListers I felt it was like the elephant in the room no one would address ( I did say something to the "principal" next to me at the end about was she going to welcome them at least and thank them for coming: no answer). I also made it a point to say something to the other "principal" as she was leaving that we JCListers were all dissapointed the GA's weren't introduced, this while the GA guys were there. I had a chance to speak with Mike of the GA's who lives in JC and the other two from Harlem and Brooklyn. We spoke at length after the mtg. and I apologized on behalf of those who should have properly introduced them and let them speak. They were good-natured about it and said they hope we all turn out Tuesday at 1PM at Dixon Deli. They also said they would come to any mtg we might set up and I said I would speak to the Harsimus Cove Assn. this Wed. about inviting them to speak. Just so you are aware while one of the "principals" posts here and is supportive of JCList at least one or more others of the "principals" who formed this watch group disdains JCList queries for more info and I think is too controlling of all info that is expressed at the mtgs. and would prefer none of it be posted here, just so you know. I'm sure she was not happy to see the GA there and was probably clueless that they had been invited to speak by one of the other "principals". One of the reasons I think others from here at JCList should come is so to voice your concerns you post here about lack of info from these watch groups and they don't become a clique of control freaks of info we all need from the police dept. to keep us informed. Luckily, Steve Fulop posts both here and maintains an excellent web site for this info. Quote: OneSkirt wrote: "And going over a list of previous crimes that happened in the last few months." Part of the problem is these monthly mtgs. always have a written "agenda" that rehashes the reported downtown crimes that have appeared here, the Jersey Journal or been emailed by listservers from the various neighborhood groups such as Harsimus Cove, Hamilton Park, and the Downtown & Van Vorst Park Neighborhood Watch groups who's mtg this was tonight. I kept copious notes and it was not until 8PM, an hour after mtg. started, that we finally got item #1 on the "past crimes list agenda" over. The "principal" was adamant about covering these past crimes list, all of which Captain McDonough could only basically repeat the same info on the page and relate info hardly useful that I could see for anyone's benefit. McDonough even seemed to be mildly bemused to irritated on covering the same ground already reported in newspapers, here, etc. Quote: OneSkirt wrote:"Just a bunch of statistics and back and forth about whether or not crime was getting worse." On this point, which you and the "principal" of the agenda agree on (she even interrupted my query to McDonough with a dismissive air that "...the statistics aren't important but the crimes are", as if we don't all know that that's why we were there.), I must say "au contraire" I disagree completely with both of you about the stats not being useful and here's why: All the papers, Steve Fulop, etc, are writing about the increase of crime downtown.Even you and others there tonight came to relate your stories, ask for what to do to help, etc while Captain McDonough was detailing how his review of "comparable stats for the beginning six month period in 2005 to the latter period of 2005" showed that crime was in fact down (!) in all 5 areas the PD monitors in the East District, which is contrary to what Fulop and media are reporting, including: *Stolen Auto *Burglary/Theft Residences (B&T) *Burglary/Theft Auto *Robbery *Aggravated Assault Non-Domestic (AA) Captain McDonough states that crime is NOT on the upswing downtown and in fact all of the above areas had decreases, some substantial, with only AA remaining the same. On the face of it this seems to me incredulous particularly the latter, AA, when we've all read of increased assaults downtown over the past several months. So I was the only one to ask the Captain anything after his voluminous stat recitation, and my question to him was thus: Quote: brightmoment to Captain McDonough: It's very possible that the other 3 Zones have had decreases in crime since Zone 5 is more industrial covering above 12th St North to Hoboken Ave, West to Monmouth and East to the Holland Tunnel and Hudson River. To be fair to the Captain he said he would see if he could break that out and "get back to us" or "have a discussion". To my mind if someone is going to claim lower crime stats downtown I want it broken down Zone by Zone in the East District and we can all make up our own minds as to whether crime is down or up in our neighborhoods. Understand that I don't fault Captain McDonough on his inability to deploy more officers as we now have only 10-14 officers deployed in the East District per shift and as you can see from the map below it's not only huge but the Captain states there are approximately 60,000 residents and over 100k working in the daytime in our East District. This is why the stats ARE important and it is the basis of which "facts" are correct, is crime downtown on the upswing or downswing, which will determine the effectiveness of our campaign to get more deployment of PO's downtown especially with the new class of PO's graduating this Spring that Steve Fulop said he would lobby for downtown. As OneSkirt said tomorrow is a gathering of the Guardian Angels at 1PM with possibly Curtis Sliwa there, Mike and other GA's and I hope to be there to give them our support and Dixon Deli as well. Mike and I discussed his making further appearances at neighborhood groups where hopefully they will not receive the lack of attention they got tonight. One other caveat: for those of you who came tonight it is well to state your disappointment here as I have done too. However, it's up to all of us, whether newbies at these groups or not, to clearly state your concerns, etc, at the meetings and for all to hear as we all have the same concerns even when we differ in our approach to being part of the solution instead of part of the problem.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Below is a color enhanced version of the gray "chart"report that was presented to the Downtown Neighborhood Watch by Captain McDonough on September 12, 2005 that I prepared(please excuse the blurry text) As was pointed out to me, the problem with this visual aid is that it doesn't show comparative, exact numbers, during prior times so we can see if crime is on the increase Downtown. This only shows the increase relative to each zone during Jan -July 2005. No figures have been provided for the Aug - December 2005 period to make comparisons. Harsimus Cove and Hamilton Park are in Zone 6 (Red) Van Vorst Park is Zone 3 (Green) Paulus Hook is Zone 4 (Yellow) 
Posted on: 2006/2/14 6:42
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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Quite a regular
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2005/8/10 20:17 Last Login : 2016/5/22 17:57 From Harsimus Cove
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I thought the meeting was interesting. I had never seen former Officer Mac (now Captain, right?) or Steve Fulop before, although I've read about both of them on here. And the Captain even mentioned jclist at one point.
As far as the Guardian Angels, I didn't talk to them hardly at all, although I met the one that lives in Jersey City. He's a very nice, approachable man. I got the impression that they didn't want to step on toes and just introduce themselves and start talking without an introduction first. I also wished they had gotten a chance to talk as it was a big reason I went to the meeting. Having said that, I thought the meeting was interesting. Some of the crimes they went over were ones I hadn't read about on here. I think all of the crimes they specifically went over were for the last month (some as recently as this past weekend). It was also nice meeting Bright Moment :)
Posted on: 2006/2/14 4:52
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