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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Hopefully you are not trolling me as I was quoting it. In all your study of church history, you must have come across this phrase often attributed to St John Chrysostom, right? Google it if you need to.

Contrary to my use of the word “darken”, this phrase is figurative, but the meaning is to whom much has been given, much is expected.

Quote:

Sutherland wrote:
It takes a great deal of arrogance to assert one knows the composition of the road to hell.
Quote:

edgewordwise wrote:
The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops like these.

Posted on: 10/29 14:47
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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It takes a great deal of arrogance to assert one knows the composition of the road to hell.
Quote:

edgewordwise wrote:
The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops like these.

Posted on: 10/29 14:12
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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I am amazed how you two can write essays picking semantics which I have to admit chose poorly, yet totally miss the gist of my argument.

Obsession: should have said haunted by or very much interested in a subject

Darken: I meant that literally as a shadow while the sun is shining behind you as you enter a church. No offense intended and nothing gives me more joy than to see sinners repent, myself included.

When I bring up the Last Judgement, I don’t say I am in a better position. In fact the opposite may very well be true. Many can claim ignorance because of lax clergy, but I cannot. So woe to those clergy in the church who hold back on or outright deny the more difficult and unpopular teachings so as not to offend their congregations. The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops like these.

Posted on: 10/29 13:10
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Being interested in the Church is hardly an obsession. I was an alter boy, went to an all boys Catholic HS, a Catholic College (where i spent three years in the seminary) and then ultimately a Catholic Law School. My interests in the Church are based upon both the history of my relationship with the Church and my curiosity as an attorney. Reading Yvonne and Mao's blatant comments about hate some how triggers in me a sense of defensiveness of the Church and myself.

Your suggestion that my attendance at service, specifically at my home parish would some how cast a darkness on the church is offensive. Still it's typical of the small minded who think their relationship with Christ and the Church is unique and should be protected for only people similarly positioned. Today's Gospel reading talked about how people, very much like you, Mao and Yvonne tried to keep Jesus away from Bartimaeus. But Jesus had no tolerance for these naysayers, and went direct to Bartimaeus.







Quote:

edgewordwise wrote:
Wow, again with assuming the worst of someone’s intentions. Sutherland, for someone who admits not having been to Mass regularly in years, you are still obsessed with this institution enough to remain a spectator. Perhaps that is a good thing and one day you will come around and darken the doors of your parish church once more (if it hasn’t been closed already) and cast your cares upon the Lord.

There was a time when straight people were regularly refused sacraments for canonical reasons and people humbly accepted it. Then the Church seemed to relax its precepts except for gay people, so understandably everyone finds this unjust. But the injustice really is to the straight people who have been given a free pass for offenses they’ve committed. They’ve been denied Catholicism in all its guilty glory. Your average clergyman may be overly lenient, but God is not mocked. Everyone deserves the truth.

Posted on: 10/28 16:56
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Edgewordwise - You’re right, I don’t know you. But before your backtracking, and you now suggesting that by golly gee, calm down, because aren't we’re all just crazy different people living here in this city?…well, let’s just say that’s a different tone than your initial posts.

Posts in which you threw shade at Sutherland that perhaps he will one day “darken” the steps of a church; accuse me of “demonizing” others, when my primary objective was to call out what I see as the intellectual dishonesty of posters on here continually trying to offer up “fake news” as “reliable” sources. So no, don’t think I, or anyone who is alarmed at where this country is heading, should calm down.

And you just need to look at the news this weekend, the bombings carried out by people falling for the “fake news” conveyors. Posters who perpetrate birtherism, trutherism, conspiracy theories promoting an exclusionary, bigoted agenda, and attempting to do so by disingenuously offering up questionable sources to back up their agenda, imo need to be called out. Ironically, your knee-jerk reaction is to view those of us who may try to do that (and not the ones, like Yvonne & Mao, who offer up questionable sources to back up the questionable conspiracy theories) as the ones being uncharitable and un-Christian?

Moreover, your claim that modern priests who don’t hold everyone to pre-Vatican 2 standards are damning souls to hell; your self-serving suggestion that only “true Christians” (like yourself?) who are traditionalists, wallowing in what you call the “glory” of Catholic guilt, have the best chance of being let into heaven at the hour of reckoning…Imho your attitude reeks of hubris. Instead of attempting to chide Sutherland and the rest of us on how we’re falling short and therefore in grave danger on Judgment Day, suggest you take a good look in the mirror…If I recall, the sin of Pride transcends all others as the most onerous.

Posted on: 10/28 15:24

Edited by esp123 on 2018/10/28 15:43:45
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Good News, the beginning of RICO, the feds is telling the various churches not to destroy records.
http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.c ... -feds-warn-us-church.html

Posted on: 10/27 20:38
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Yikes, calm down. Most of the posts on here (not just from you) are precisely the textbook definition of ad hominem attacks, and apparently that’s assuming the worst?

I get it. I don’t really know you and neither do you me on this forum. I think everyone here is some level of crazy, but that’s why we live in this city. Variety is the spice of life.

Quote:

esp123 wrote:
Think Edgewordwise is projecting, not too mention protesting, too much. It’s nice you want to fight Maos battles, but chill out.

You yourself are being prone to assume the worst of others, accusing them of ad hominem attacks, when what the person (me) is protesting is Mao’s attempt to promote what amounts to the equivalent of “birtherism” and disingenuously trying to portray it as somehow on his part just offering “objective” news. Like claims of Obama not being born in the US, the Shepard story is also often promoted by those with an agenda that is far from kind.This promotion of “fake news” seems a constant pattern with Mao and Yvonne, and needs to be called out for what it is.

media matters.org had this to say of the author and the book that Mao tries to validate and offer as credence for Maos claims of Shepard’s ‘hagiography’ :

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2013 ... rn-of-matthew-shep/195894

As for my posting at 2am, some weekends I work the night shift, there a problem with that? or you just assuming the worst?




Posted on: 10/27 17:11
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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LGBT is not part of the Synod. Here is the problem, people here live in denial. Of course, let's pretend the minors and young men in the seminary were not raped by gay men. Let's blame Yvonne, for bring up what is true. There are dozens of priests now speaking up on youtube on the abuse in the Church and those men are saying the same thing I have said here, it is homosexual men entering the seminary. As one priest said he could not share a shower with women so why are gay men allowed in when there is a dormitory type living? I am tired of my money going to pay off victims because there is a gay network and personally I am thrilled the feds are considering RICO to investigate the Catholic Church. I want the names of each predatory priest listed and I want to know (not the names) but what gender was violated. By the way, the 11 year old boy that McCarrick raped will be speaking in Baltimore in a rally outside the Bishop's conference. There will be thousands of Catholics there protesting. When the child protection program was instituted, they included priests and others who work for the church but excluded themselves. The idea that the bishops want to investigate themselves in totally a joke. There will be thousands of Catholics who want gay men out of the priesthood because it leads to rape, pay offs of church funds, and a loss of faith.

Posted on: 10/27 14:32
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Think Edgewordwise is projecting, not too mention protesting, too much. It’s nice you want to fight Maos battles, but chill out.

You yourself are being prone to assume the worst of others, accusing them of ad hominem attacks, when what the person (me) is protesting is Mao’s attempt to promote what amounts to the equivalent of “birtherism” and disingenuously trying to portray it as somehow on his part just offering “objective” news. Like claims of Obama not being born in the US, the Shepard story is also often promoted by those with an agenda that is far from kind.This promotion of “fake news” seems a constant pattern with Mao and Yvonne, and needs to be called out for what it is.

media matters.org had this to say of the author and the book that Mao tries to validate and offer as credence for Maos claims of Shepard’s ‘hagiography’ :

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2013 ... rn-of-matthew-shep/195894

As for my posting at 2am, some weekends I work the night shift, there a problem with that? or you just assuming the worst?




Posted on: 10/27 13:25

Edited by esp123 on 2018/10/27 13:42:09
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Wow, again with assuming the worst of someone’s intentions. Sutherland, for someone who admits not having been to Mass regularly in years, you are still obsessed with this institution enough to remain a spectator. Perhaps that is a good thing and one day you will come around and darken the doors of your parish church once more (if it hasn’t been closed already) and cast your cares upon the Lord.

There was a time when straight people were regularly refused sacraments for canonical reasons and people humbly accepted it. Then the Church seemed to relax its precepts except for gay people, so understandably everyone finds this unjust. But the injustice really is to the straight people who have been given a free pass for offenses they’ve committed. They’ve been denied Catholicism in all its guilty glory. Your average clergyman may be overly lenient, but God is not mocked. Everyone deserves the truth.

Posted on: 10/27 11:20
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Mao's intentional misuse of hagiography was intended to thwart any observation that gays and lesbians are no less welcome and loved by Christ than straights and no less deserving of Christian rites, and intended to further his campaign to further alienate gays and lesbians from the Church. All to further his campaign to keep his world as comfortably homogenous as possible. The reality is that Mao is struggling with the reality that the Church and the world are changing in ways that he can't tolerate because it's only illuminating his discriminatory leanings and isolating him and Yvonne from what is quickly becoming the new main stream, while people like them are growing quickly irrelevant and extinct.

Quote:

esp123 wrote:
Don’t want to give this dumpster fire more oxygen, but what is wrong with both Yvonne and Mao?

Yvonne posts about some harebrained homophobic theories related to the Catholic church crisis, but then Mao posts an article arguing Matt Shepard’s death wasn’t a hate crime, that he was killed because both Shepard and his killers were meth addicts? (BTW, according to the article police say toxicology reports do not back that up)

Yvonne seems addlebrained, but Mao’s post seems gratuitous, almost mean-spirited, under the guise of ignorance. What was the point, but to bring down the memory of Shepard, an attempt to undervalue Shepard’s life, what Mao calls a “hagiography.” I would note that most people, even Jesus of Nazereth, were/are hagiographed after death, particularly violent deaths.


Posted on: 10/27 10:06
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Ah, esp123. You seem to relish in demonizing people you don’t agree with. Ad hominem upon ad hominem. Considering how you last posted at 2ish in the morning, this is not helping you sleep at night either. The article also said those toxicology reports were not presented to the reporter, so he couldn’t know for sure. Even if they weren’t under the influence, the drug dealing association makes the motives more complex.

Of course we shouldn’t speak ill of the dead, but we shouldn’t be so quick to canonize them either, especially for political ends. At the Last Judgement, every thought, word, deed will be laid bare for all to see. Some people once they hear this find it so horrifying they will do all sorts of mental acrobatics to convince themselves it’s all a fairytale, but for many people of faith it’s a good reason to be a better person and give others the benefit of the doubt.

Posted on: 10/27 9:46
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Don’t want to give this dumpster fire more oxygen, but what is wrong with both Yvonne and Mao?

Yvonne posts about some harebrained homophobic theories related to the Catholic church crisis, but then Mao posts an article arguing Matt Shepard’s death wasn’t a hate crime, that he was killed because both Shepard and his killers were meth addicts? (BTW, according to the article police say toxicology reports do not back that up)

Yvonne seems addlebrained, but Mao’s post seems gratuitous, almost mean-spirited, under the guise of ignorance. What was the point, but to bring down the memory of Shepard, an attempt to undervalue Shepard’s life, what Mao calls a “hagiography.” I would note that most people, even Jesus of Nazereth, were/are hagiographed after death, particularly violent deaths.


Posted on: 10/27 2:11
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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I wish everyone would just ignore Yvonne, she is an ignorant, self serving recalcitrant and we are only adding fuel to her fire. Use your energy on something more positive. You can't fix stupidity. If we ignore her she will go away. She's not worth it.

Posted on: 10/26 19:26
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Well, I have not followed the Shepard thing too closely but I know that the gay reporter who did an in depth book that challenged the hagiography faced lots of retaliation. Here's an interview transcript on NPR.

https://www.npr.org/2013/10/06/2264381 ... behind-an-infamous-murder

Posted on: 10/26 12:18
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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https://twitter.com/JamesMartinSJ/status/1055806579952574465

As #Synod2018 delegates debate whether even to mention LGBT people in their final document, Matthew Shepard, who was beaten and killed for being gay, is laid to rest at Washington National Cathedral. In today's Gospel, Jesus asks, "Why can you not read the signs of the times?" James Martin, SJS

Posted on: 10/26 9:06
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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As usual, Yvonne, you missed my point entirely. But by the way, most men who rape women don't even get arrested as most women don't report rape. There's no percentage in it.

Posted on: 10/26 8:43
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Yvonne, you should not be allowed to vote. You're sick and hateful. Going to Church does nothing for your soul.

Posted on: 10/26 7:58
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Quote:

K-Lo2 wrote:
And since straight men are the ones who generally rape women, we shouldn't let them out of their homes?


So you are justifying rape of minors and adult men in the seminary who do not want this to happen to them? Men who rape women go to jail, the same should happen to gay men in the priesthood and their bishops who cover it up.

Posted on: 10/25 17:26
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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And since straight men are the ones who generally rape women, we shouldn't let them out of their homes?

Posted on: 10/25 16:51
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery.

Posted on: 10/25 16:27
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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There are many priests who are speaking up including Bishop Robert Barron of Word of Fire. He has created videos on the church. I can think of some priests in JC which I will not name for their own safety who has said the same thing. Attacking me and calling me names does not change the fact that the Catholic Church has paid out $4.4 billion over a period of time to mostly males who were raped by gay men in the church. You don't like what is happening, Sutherland, neither do I. So gay men should not enter the church as priests and the problem will be solved.

Posted on: 10/25 16:08
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Posted on: 10/25 14:34
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Yvonne, you're a sick and hateful homophobe. And now I'm actually a hypocrite for responding to you.

Posted on: 10/25 14:30
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Here is a priest who calls what is happening in the Church/seminary homoheretic. The timeline he says this is 2:30.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-FmG_PSCQI

Posted on: 10/25 12:13
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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I meant to say, I don't know why people engage Yvonne at all. I tried to edit my post, but wasn't able to.

Posted on: 10/25 11:06
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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I don't want people both engaging Yvonne. She's ridiculous.

Posted on: 10/25 10:25
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Thank for your prayers but facts are facts, while homosexuality is still in the single digits in this country over 85% of the victims according to the John Jay report were male teens. !00% of the seminarians are male victims. It is not nuns raping boys. It is gay men entering the seminary who become priests and later bishops. The priests raped their victims and the bishops cover up the facts. Attacking me does not change the truth.

Posted on: 10/25 9:33
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Clearly Yvonne is suffering from some illness and we all need to pray for her.

Posted on: 10/25 5:28
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

papadage wrote:
It's an undocumented piece of garbage written to cater to the pr-existing opinions of garbage people.

Figures you would boost it. You love shit conspiracy theories.


It is not undocumented at all, in fact there is a dossier stared by former Pope Benedict on the homosexuality in the Church, when he received the report, he felt he was too old to correct the problem. The reason he resigned. Newspapers in Italy has been talking about this. Hopefully, this dossier will be published soon.


Yvonne is simply a self loathing human being who can't stand the fact she has to live in what's increasingly being called one of the most GLBT-friendly cities in the country and she's stuck with two closeted sons. Maybe if she had grandchildren she'd spend less time poisoning our politics.

Posted on: 10/24 20:56
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