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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
 
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2006/5/10 16:36 Last Login : 2023/7/18 1:45 From Hamilton Park
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Thanks Bamboozle, very helpful.
Robin.
Posted on: 2019/11/16 13:10
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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Here you go: SUBJECT: Fire Code Enforcement Jurisdiction in One- and Two-Family, Owner-Occupied Dwelling https://www.nj.gov/dca/divisions/dfs/a ... etins/fce_juri_2010-2.pdf
Posted on: 2019/11/16 6:04
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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iGreg, no, they don?t always win. When JCFD attempted to apply a later edition of code to my building, saying I had a violation that I did not, I won. I went to Court 5 times (they try to bludgeon you into submission), showed them the correct edition of Code to apply to my building and they withdrew. Fact: I did not have any violations even though they maintained that I did. They were 100% wrong. It?s little more than extortion ? pay up in fines, fees, and work for their fire service companies, or give us your building on the cheap. It's a racket, pure and simple.
Posted on: 2019/11/16 5:59
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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Seems that 1 and 2 family homes are not in scope under the laws posted above.
Has anyone in a 2 family been subject to this inspection and successfully (or unsuccessfully) had themselves exempted on this basis? Robin.
Posted on: 2019/11/15 14:08
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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JCFD will win.
The energy and time spent fighting with them would be better served complying. Many buildings are in such fire code violations perhaps there is a method to their madness.
Posted on: 2019/3/11 14:12
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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Applying the Fire Code correctly has become a bit complex over the years as it has been updated several times since the introduction of the UCC, January 1, 1977. You MUST know which edition of the Fire Code is the correct edition to apply to your particular building because the requirements have changed over time. To do that you refer to the edition in effect at the time the building was constructed, or updated, or the particular equipment installed. If the work was inspected and approved upon completion, then that?s it they can?t make you update just because a new version of Code is approved. Watch for that because they WON?T tell you which specific edition of Code to use, and nor does the violation notice. You just have to ?know?. If you?re not sure, get a copy of the original permit and approval and look at the date. Then go to the ?Table of Model Codes? on the NJ DCA website and see which Code was in effect at that particular time. Here?s the link: https://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/ ... _Model_Code_Adoptions.pdf If you want, read my other posts about this for a little more information, and my own sorry, though ultimately successful, tale about the JCFD Inspectors. It left a very sour taste in my mouth about the m.o. of JCFD Inspectors. More stand-over con than empowered professional. BTW, regarding that Ordinance, aside the required public notice posting in the Jersey Journal ? you know those fine print public notice ads that no one reads ? there was no other notification to JC property owners even though new fees and charges were introduced as a result. Mr Mayor, how about something in the propaganda telling us how great you are sent out yearly with the tax information? No, it was as though they were quietly setting a trap?. Why would we inform property owners about a new public safety measure and fees to give them time to make sure they meet the requirements?? They can even fine you for not having paid the fees they never told you about. You can?t make this stuff up. Yup, it?s JC, where they?ve truly earned their reputations.
Posted on: 2019/3/11 3:43
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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Me too and I've been here over 20. This is gonna get nasty, no doubt. My experience with FDJC fire inspectors, as I've said upthread, is that they're extremely poorly trained.
Posted on: 2019/3/11 1:32
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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Ordinance 14.117 below.
- Section (5) (a) explicitly excludes the JCFD from enforcing Uniform Fire Code on one and 2-units owner occupied buildings. - Section 3-88-2 and 3-88-4 details the Uniform Fire Code registration and fees. It is not clear whether these fees applies to all buildings. The beginning of 3-88-2 seems to have a disclaimer for buildings pursuant to the Uniform Fire Code - which could exclude one and 2-units owner occupied buildings. At this point, it is my understanding that section (5)(a) supersedes section 3-88-2 and -4 and therefore that the letter received by legal_alien does not applies to his/her building. Or mine for that matter. http://jerseycity.hosted.civiclive.co ... d%20%20No%20%2014-117.pdf
Posted on: 2019/3/10 23:43
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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2007/7/4 16:37 Last Login : 2021/11/4 21:55 From Hamilton Park
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Does ordinance 14.117 call for city inspection of buildings with 3 units? With 2 units? of single family homes? Is there a mandate to inspect every x number of years? And, most importantly, is the inspection mandatory or only when there is probable cause? This is honestly the first time I hear about this and I have been in HP more than 10 years.
Posted on: 2019/3/10 20:55
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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Their buddies, Brewster?.? No, it?s work for themselves for their ?off-duty? days. A lot of them have contracting businesses. And as you'd know it?s not legal to sell a property with an open fire code violation in NJ. Try getting a mortgage in that situation. Issue enough of these violations, ratchet up the pressure with a few fines and bingo you?ll score a property or two on the cheap, cash only. What a racket. Where?s the FBI and DOJ? But why now...? Well, our ?enlightened? City Council passed Ordinance 14.117, late 2014 to allow the JCFD Inspectors to inspect smaller buildings. Prior to that only the State was legally empowered to conduct those inspections in JC. That?s why you?re seeing more of these abuses of power by the JCFD. Expect them on your doorstep sometime soon.
Posted on: 2019/3/10 20:43
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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Sounds like someone in the dept is trying to generate easy money for their electrician buddies. I wonder if they'll start in with the 3+ unit places even though we get inspected for all that by the state?
Posted on: 2019/3/10 19:51
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Newbie
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Has anyone else received a similar notice from the JCFD recently? This is for a 2 condo brownstone - I?ve owned my place for 10 years and have never heard from the JCFD before.
1. Submit Fire Alarm Report - Annual NFPA-72 2. Submit Test Report for Battery Operated Smoke Alarms 3. Submit Test Report for Carbon Monoxide Detector Alarms 4. Submit non Life Hazard Use Fee: 1-10 Units $135 5. Provide Access to Premise/Building in Order to Conduct Inspection
Posted on: 2019/3/10 12:22
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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How many units is your building? Curious if they will come after me next. I know someone who was given 10 days to put a fire escape on his building. It is registered with the DCA and has been inspected every 5 years without an issue. DCA at least gave me 6 months to address my fire-escape issue (they ruled in 1999 I didn't need one, then changed their minds years later).
Posted on: 2018/10/2 17:35
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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The threat of a 5K/day fine seems outrageous. Also, this is old, but some food for thought: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sec ... ked-idUSBRE92004T20130301
Posted on: 2018/10/2 17:09
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Just can't stay away
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Has anyone else had an inspection saying you need a knoxbox? And you have to pay $25 to get the order form for one?
Also with our inspection, they say that if we do not correct our violations we will be fined $5000 a day per violation. WTF??
Posted on: 2018/10/2 15:00
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Re: Jersey City Fire prevention Division violations
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Home away from home
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Listers, in response to a post regarding violations written by the JCFD, I posted about the Uniform Construction Code (UCC) and different editions. However, I neglected to provide the link if you want to look up which specific code edition applies to your building, or work you?ve had done on your building. So here it is:
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/ ... _Model_Code_Adoptions.pdf The table shows the dates when the particular edition of Code was ?in effect?. In general, any work undertaken must satisfy the requirements of the Code in effect at the time the work is performed. When a new edition of code comes into effect, there?s a 6 months ?grace? period, during which time on-going work, or work already approved can be finished using the ?old? code. If you don?t finish within the 6 months, then you are supposed to ?update? the work to the new code edition requirements. The JC Building department should have copies of all of these codes ? but try getting anything out of that mess?. Many public libraries have copies of prior editions of the codes as well. And if you care for a trip to Trenton, DCA has them of course.
Posted on: 2018/6/4 5:30
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Re: Jersey City Fire prevention Division violations
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Home away from home
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I cant advise you what to say or do ? I don?t know the specifics of your situation and I am not an attorney. You should go hire one. But I can tell you what I did.... For my situation, what I told them was my house did not need any further work to meet code requirements. It had been upgraded to meet the requirements of the retrofit code, and the codes in effect at that time, so did not require any more work because of later Code updates. I referenced that NJR section I described here previously. In my submission I included the applicable code sections from the 1984 and 1987 BOCA codes. I showed that my house was less than 5 stories, the use group R, the windowless basement was less than 3,000 sq feet, and I had an interconnected, automatic smoke alarm system installed in accordance with NJAC 5:70-4.9 (a) 3 i. Therefore, according to the applicable BOCA code requirements, I did not need suppression (sprinklers), nor did I need central monitoring to meet the requirements. I had evidence for everything I said, including copies of the NJR, the NJAC, the UFC and the BOCA code sections, and few other things as well ? photographs of the house and basement, the green card, a sketch of the basement, the survey showing the dimensions?. Everything I needed to provide proof what I was arguing was true and correct. No one had to take my word alone for anything, there was evidence from other sources to support and corroborate everything I claimed. That was basically it. I explained my position and without contesting my analysis, the Fire Department conceded and withdrew the violation and fines and I was free to go on my way. The whole experience completely changed my view of JC Fire Department, as their tactics seemed to me more like those of stand-over thugs than professionals empowered by law to enforce the Code. I don't know for sure, but I ended up with the distinct impression what they were trying to do was force me to sell my house on the cheap. I worked in a heavily regulated sector, so I knew how codes and regulations work. It was time-consuming but relatively straight forward for me to research and figure out. I was left wondering if it?s a pattern? There were several incidents along the way, peripheral to the central matter of the correct use of the Codes, that led me to question if it isn't something they do repeatedly. It was so abusive, and seemed so ?pre-planned?. I honestly don?t know ? I don?t have any evidence, but it would be easy enough for the FBI / DOJ to investigate. All they?d need to do is examine the outcomes of every windowless basement violation issued by the JCFD, and subsequent sales of those properties? the patterns would become clear. It wouldn't be the first time corruption reared it's ugly head in Jersey City.... Perhaps it happens in other cities across the State as well - who knows?
Posted on: 2018/5/25 17:14
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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Here?s the section of the NJR I cited yesterday. Older NJR (New Jersey Register) records can be difficult to search, so I thought it could be helpful to post. The citation is 24 N.J.R. 739, Monday, March 2, 1992. Old NJR?s are cited by page, so you need to read the entire page to find the section of interest. They are on the web ? in .pdf format ? with text that can?t be searched by computer. Challenging to find what you need.
The response below is from the Department of Community Affairs (DCA) to a comment from the New Jersey Builders Association (NJBA) about the impact of Code updates. I?ve added the bold to highlight the clear guidance from DCA in response to the NJBA comment. The ?retrofit? referred to are the requirements of the UFC, as the comment / response was in the context of proposed amendments to the UFC mandates. However, the guidance holds generally. If the work met current code requirements in effect at the time of construction or updating (rehab / installation) then you?re done ? often shorthanded as ?pre-existing condition.? If you do look it up, don?t be confused by the NJAC 5:18 reference. That section is the original UFC reference, subsequently renumbered to the current NJAC 5:70 reference in use today. ?RESPONSE: References to the Uniform Construction Code are made only for the purpose of establishing installation standards for required equipment and systems. These references avoid problems for construction officials, allow for advances in technology, and result in reduced confusion. Moreover, once a building has met the requirements of the retrofit and has received either a certificate of occupancy or a certificate of approval for the required systems, no further upgrading would be required because of a change in the Uniform Construction Code.?
Posted on: 2018/5/24 13:09
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Re: Jersey City Fire prevention Division violations
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Newbie
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2018/5/23 0:57 Last Login : 2023/10/21 13:17 From Jersey City
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Could you please advise me what should I write on appeal letter?? I am planning to appeal but not sure, on what law to rely in order to get this thing done? You can reach me directly at : gjenashaj@icloud.com
Posted on: 2018/5/24 12:42
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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In my limited experience with the JCFD inspectors, they're poorly trained. I wanted a definitive answer to where to place smoke and CO detectors in a unit, so I took a floor plan drawing to the firehouse and met with an inspector. Among other fuzzy comments, she said there should be a monoxide detector in the kitchen in case the pilot light goes out. I gently pointed out that if the pilot goes out, there's no combustion, and CO was created by incomplete combustion. She had no idea really where CO came from.
For the record, CO detectors are required outside bedroom doors.
Posted on: 2018/5/24 3:53
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Correct, any 3 or more, multi-family building built before the UCC came into effect in 1977 was required by the introduction of the NJ UFC (aka ?retrofit? code, NJAC 5-70:1-4) in the mid/late 1980?s to be ?upgraded? with various fire safety features. There had been several tragic fires, with multiple fatalities, in older buildings and the State introduced the UFC to upgrade the safety of older housing stock. The Code in effect when the UFC was introduced was the BOCA code, 1984 and 1987 editions. The UFC was amended several times shortly after introduction, and in the meantime the BOCA code was also updated, thus, the two applicable editions. An owner had to do the work to keep their green card. If they didn?t, then the building became unregistered and illegal for renting. So if we think of a hypothetical JC brownstone, typical construction and layout, originally constructed in 1890 and converted to a 4-family in 1925, that building was mandated to be ?retrofitted? by the UFC in the late 1980?s. Once that work was done on the building, inspected and passed, that was it ? it had met the requirements of the UFC. It wasn?t required to have further upgrades ? I gave you the citation to the NJR previously ? just because a new code edition was released subsequently. However, if ?rehabilitation? work is done on the building, that does trigger the need for updates to current codes ? I?m oversimplifying for the sake of brevity, but see the rehab code for details (NJAC 5:23-6, et seq.) What is NOT supposed to happen to that 4 family brownstone that met the UFC requirements in the late 1980?s and hasn?t had any ?rehab? work since, is for an Inspector to come along and say, ?Oh, now we have a new code, the 2006 UCC, and you don?t meet the requirements, so you need to do X, Y and Z.? But lots of Inspectors do it, and the JCFD does it. No one understands the rules, and the Inspectors pick home owners off in small numbers over time, so they get away with it?. But it isn?t what the Regulations permit or require. This is why it is essential to know the specific edition of code that applies to your building ? so you can push back if they ask for something crazy that comes from some later code edition. That said, for the simple, inexpensive, sensible stuff, I used to just do it anyway, even if it wasn?t actually ?required? according to a correct application of the correct code edition. For the sprinkler I drew the line because of the costs and heavy-handed, threatening and intimidating way the FD approached me. They acted more like thugs than professional law enforcement officers and all the while they were wrong.
Posted on: 2018/5/24 2:25
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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All my buildings have front and back basement egresses whether or not they have windows. Why isn't that taken into account? Seems to me there's plenty of examples of code requirements being enforced that were non-existent at time of construction. Fire escapes, stairwell smoke detectors and emergency lighting come to mind, as well as the handrails I mentioned.
Posted on: 2018/5/24 1:08
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Re: Jersey City Fire prevention Division violations
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Home away from home
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Brewster, thanks for the kind invitation but I am sure you'll understand if I politely decline. The correct approach is as I outlined ? if a building or installation met code (was inspected and passed) at the time of construction / installation then that?s the end of it. The State, Fire Department, City can?t at some later point arbitrarily require you to meet the requirements of a newer Code version, just because it?s available - see 24 N.J.R. 739. You have to be doing rehab, or some work on the building, to trigger the application of new code requirements. Nevertheless, I typically take a fairly pragmatic approach to simple ?violations.? For less expensive, easy to ?fix? things that make sense ? handrails on stairs, easily installed lights and so on I?ll just do it, but I always look the inspector directly in the eye and cordially ask which edition of the UCC (NOT NJAC section) is he or she using? In my experience, that?s been sufficient to politely signal you know the game and put an end to the nonsense. The windowless basement ?violation? is a whole other matter?. The FD tried this on me a few years ago. There?s real money in it, sometimes even a building on the cheap. Sprinklers are expensive and can be destructive to install in an old building ? even if only in the basement, and can require periodic inspections ($), testing (more $) and on and on. Moreover the City and Fire Department also want you to install a centrally monitored alarm as well. More on-going, subscription costs ? every month, forever. Big bucks. When they tried to make me do this a few years ago, I refused and went to Court. Sounds they are still at it, attempting to intimidate people into retrofitting basement sprinklers, or worse?? Long and short of it, the FD withdrew the violation ? they knew they were wrong. My old building had been retro-fitted at the time to meet the requirements of the UFC when it was introduced (mid/late 80?s). Nothing had been done subsequently to the building to trigger the application of any newer Code edition that required sprinklers or a monitored alarm. If I had ?rehabbed? the building, then yes, the requirements of the Code in effect when the ?rehab? was undertaken would have to be met. I finally had enough of the City and State's nonsense, and as you may recall - I posted here some time ago - when the reval became a done deal, I sold the building. And I'm not sorry about it at all. Feel free to ask any questions and I?ll do my best to provide concise and accurate responses to the best of my knowledge.
Posted on: 2018/5/23 21:06
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Newer buildings, yes. Older buildings it depends on several factors including the age of the building and the particular edition / version of code the building has met. It's not a simple black and white, yes or no, answer.
Posted on: 2018/5/23 20:53
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Home away from home
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2005/11/12 17:04 Last Login : 5/7 14:26 From Downtown JC, VVP Area
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Yes, exactly. A second means of egress. Most cities I've lived in have that same law. And that means no window bars on said basement window as well.
Posted on: 2018/5/23 18:40
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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What is the deal with 'windowless basement'? Are the windows required as an alternative to escape a fire or something?
Posted on: 2018/5/23 18:29
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Re: Jersey City Fire prevention Division violations
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Home away from home
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I doubt anyone would object to your posting your lengthy pm here, I'm real interested in this subject! The state seems to have no qualms about citations on long existing conditions in Greencarded buildings, like suddenly requiring handrails on basement hatch steps or exterior backyard lighting. If the city is getting into the game, that's going to be a hassle. I think I've had one fire inspection in 20 years.
Posted on: 2018/5/23 18:12
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Re: Jersey City Fire prevention Division violations
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Home away from home
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This ?Windowless basement? violation is a complete, total racket, and has been for 30 years. I?ve left you a lengthy pm with additional details.
Many smaller, less than 5 stories, older (pre-1977) residential building with windowless basements less than 3,000 sq ft DO NOT requite either suppression or central monitoring. The reason is because they met the requirements of past Code editions in effect at the time that did not mandate these features (BOCA 1984 and 1987, sections 1718 and 1020, respectively). Those older, pre-1977 buildings had to be updated when the UFC came into effect in the mid and late 1980's. They used the BOCA code as the basis for what came to be known as the "retro-fit" requirements. Anything newly built or rehabbed after 1977 must have met the code requirement in effect at the time. You couldn't get a CO or a green card if the building didn't. The general approach is that if a building or installation met the Code requirement in effect at the time the work was performed, then no updates are necessary just because a new version of the Code comes in effect. Often shorthanded as "pre-existing condition."
Posted on: 2018/5/23 16:13
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Jersey City Fire prevention Division violations
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Newbie
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2018/5/23 0:57 Last Login : 2023/10/21 13:17 From Jersey City
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PLEASE has anyone received ORDER TO PAY PENALTY AND ABATE VIOLATIONS by Fire Prevention Division?
I have bought a three family house in 2015 and the building has a Green Card, passed all the city and state inspection. I do not live in the building and have not checked for the mail in the last month. Today when I checked my mail, I was summoned with this thick envelope citing every kind of violations, from Smoke Detectors to Windowless Basement-Code Compliant Fire Suppression System Required? Has anyone gone through a similar experience? Did you appeal? What was the outcome?? Any experience is greatly experienced because I do not have the slightest clue why all of a sudden Jersey City is targeting homeowners with special inspection.
Posted on: 2018/5/23 1:17
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Re: Notice of violation & Order to correct - JCFD
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Home away from home
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So the notice of violation is a general check up list for the sole purpose of triggering an inspection? Right?
Posted on: 2015/8/11 23:03
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