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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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For the folks that feel that people are being unfairly forced out of their homes that are worth 10-fold what they paid for them - what is your suggested alternatives? Should they continue to have lower taxes than those who are newly buying homes? Their houses sit on the same land, the use the same or in many cases more public services and utilities.

There is no happy answer. Property taxes have to be fair an equal and are not based on someone’s personal financial situation - it’s based on the land you own and the share community public resources you consume.

What is happening in Jersey City has and will continue to happen in places all over the country with big cities. It happened in Brooklyn and Hoboken fairly recently, in Harlem and other areas in Manhattan before than, in Long Island City now along with Jersey City. Nobody is being forced out - reverse mortgages will allow nearly anyone who cannot afford the incremental property taxes to pay for those, and when they eventually go to sell their home, it’ll be worth 7-8 fold what they paid for it still. Go to other RE markets .... people are lucky to get 10-20% RE price increases over 5-10 years and 30-50% over 10-20 years. In JC it’s been 400%-1000%.... Folks should be thankful that others have moved in and are willing to pay incredibly high prices for properties around them.

You can’t have your cake with property appreciation and eat it too.

Posted on: 2018/2/25 15:22
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Every story is different, the woman who is 90 and now a widow paid $45,000 for her home and her husband worked two jobs to pay for the home. She has a disable adult son. Why should people sell when some were born here and others brought when the housing cost was cheap. Here is an example, when I married gold was $32.00 a troy ounce so I got a 18K gold wedding band. Today gold is $1,300 a troy ounce, so should I pay the sales tax based on gold now? It does not matter what they paid for their homes years ago, it is their homes. No one should be tax out of their homes especially since this city has been giving out sweetheart tax abatement deals for years.

Posted on: 2018/2/25 15:06
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Yvonne wrote:
I went to the protest and met former neighbors, 3 are battling cancer and another is on a cane for serious back problems. They did not ask for sweetheart tax deals that the mayor did in "Make Jersey City Yours." Most in that group were long time residents, I saw many who were born here and are now seniors. Many are still paying for the damage brought by Sandy.



How much did they pay for their properties? and what are they worth now?

Also how much did you profit on your DTJC property sale?

#oH

Posted on: 2018/2/25 3:13
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I went to the protest and met former neighbors, 3 are battling cancer and another is on a cane for serious back problems. They did not ask for sweetheart tax deals that the mayor did in "Make Jersey City Yours." Most in that group were long time residents, I saw many who were born here and are now seniors. Many are still paying for the damage brought by Sandy.

Posted on: 2018/2/25 2:13
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jerseymom wrote:
(And to echo some of the sentiment here, the woman mentioned below owns 2 downtown, multi unit properties, if this article is correct. So, yeah, cry me a river vs. our neighbors who have been subsidizing these properties for decades.)

Jersey City residents protest tax reval: 'You're taking our homes away from us'
Updated 5:51 PM; Posted 4:15 PM

By Corey W. McDonald cmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY -- Dozens of Downtown residents protested outside City Hall today to call attention to exorbitant tax increases they could see as a result of the citywide property revaluation.

Carrying signs and protesting the new assessments that were released last month on their homes, the residents said their tax bills could double or even triple.

"You're taking our homes away from us. People who have lived here for 80 years are going to lose their homes," said Christina Szpala, 55. "The people standing around me are not millionaires. It's not our fault you've built up this city the way you have and given abatements to all these developers. We're the people you're supposed to protect and you're throwing us out."


The delete police are in full swing over on nj.com. Don't dare post anything against the protesters.

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Posted on: 2018/2/25 1:54
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jerseymom wrote:
(And to echo some of the sentiment here, the woman mentioned below owns 2 downtown, multi unit properties, if this article is correct. So, yeah, cry me a river vs. our neighbors who have been subsidizing these properties for decades.)




Should pull her rent roll in comparison to what she's been underpaying in taxes for her two properties.




Posted on: 2018/2/25 0:53
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(And to echo some of the sentiment here, the woman mentioned below owns 2 downtown, multi unit properties, if this article is correct. So, yeah, cry me a river vs. our neighbors who have been subsidizing these properties for decades.)

Jersey City residents protest tax reval: 'You're taking our homes away from us'
Updated 5:51 PM; Posted 4:15 PM

By Corey W. McDonald cmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY -- Dozens of Downtown residents protested outside City Hall today to call attention to exorbitant tax increases they could see as a result of the citywide property revaluation.

Carrying signs and protesting the new assessments that were released last month on their homes, the residents said their tax bills could double or even triple.

"You're taking our homes away from us. People who have lived here for 80 years are going to lose their homes," said Christina Szpala, 55. "The people standing around me are not millionaires. It's not our fault you've built up this city the way you have and given abatements to all these developers. We're the people you're supposed to protect and you're throwing us out."

Posted on: 2018/2/25 0:09
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biggoron wrote:
The recent tax law changes disincentize home ownership due to the changes with respect to property tax and mortgage interest deduction. Additionally the trend on interest rates is upward. Along with a large property tax increases downtown there will be some significant downward pressure on prices.

The question is supply and demand. Supply downtown seems tight still. Will there continue to be more buyers out there? Will people from NYC continue to have JC be an option? A lot of uncertainty right now.


I spoke to a smart real estate friend of mine the other night about this exact subject. He said inventory is extremely tight in downtown right now - and he has not seen a rush for people to sell. Maybe it's early, but he doesn't think there will be any meteoric shift downtown anytime soon.

Posted on: 2018/2/25 0:05
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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The recent tax law changes disincentize home ownership due to the changes with respect to property tax and mortgage interest deduction. Additionally the trend on interest rates is upward. Along with a large property tax increases downtown there will be some significant downward pressure on prices.

The question is supply and demand. Supply downtown seems tight still. Will there continue to be more buyers out there? Will people from NYC continue to have JC be an option? A lot of uncertainty right now.

Posted on: 2018/2/25 0:00
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brewster wrote:
Personally I think one year is a little too soon for prices to stabilize and new comps be representative, perhaps two years is better, but I don't understand why everyone is bitching about this plan for a second reval.

It's one of the few things that's actually within the power of the city government to do to ease the situation by capturing the changes created by the reval at both ends of the market. Otherwise we'll end up in the exact same spot of people piecemeal appealing their assessments and inequalities remaining for another decade, however satisfying that maybe the people who have been overpaying up til now.


Totally agree. Hard to guess what the price swings will be post-reval as well as the amount of time it will take for the market to find its new level. And I mean that city-wide, not just the expected swing (down) in DTJC houses. Any pro realtors out there wanna chime in with opinions?

Posted on: 2018/2/24 21:30
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Personally I think one year is a little too soon for prices to stabilize and new comps be representative, perhaps two years is better, but I don't understand why everyone is bitching about this plan for a second reval.

It's one of the few things that's actually within the power of the city government to do to ease the situation by capturing the changes created by the reval at both ends of the market. Otherwise we'll end up in the exact same spot of people piecemeal appealing their assessments and inequalities remaining for another decade, however satisfying that maybe the people who have been overpaying up til now.

Posted on: 2018/2/24 19:46
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After nearly thirty years in the waiting he cancels one and now he wants to do another two years later from the start of this current one. Be careful what you wish for.

Posted on: 2018/2/24 18:27
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Right?
Do it all over again in 2019?
I'm still waiting for this one, not a peep, nothing.
Just want to know at this point. Sigh...
And I'm downtown...

Posted on: 2018/2/24 14:55
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Just curious -- Have many people in the Heights gotten their appraisal levels yet? I see a couple condo building listed on asinj's website. But my neighbors and I haven't gotten anything on our 1-2 family homes.

Posted on: 2018/2/24 3:29
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I personally had no problem with the original company that Healy hired. When Brian O'Reilly retired and started to work with them, I actually thought it was a good idea because he was born and raised in Jersey City. I would have trusted his judgment especially since he knew about the flooding in downtown and Country Village. That was not taken into consideration from the meeting at the Barrow Mansion. Mark Duda said homeowners should have mentioned it. O'Reilly knew about our flooding problems. Plus the fact he was the tax assessor before he was the Business Administrator.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 23:08
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Bamb00zle wrote:

So, if you’re correct Brewster, the new reval company Fulop hired to replace the crooked, terrible, incompetent reval company he fired, has completely screwed up…. And the city is likely in for more law suits, and another reval in short order.


There's not enough data as far as I know to conclude one way or the other, although there's a guy on next door asking people to send him their data for DT. It does bother me that the land and Improvements columns are missing from the Excel sheet being released, when they are feature of even the simplest tax card. Were it there, then any inequality would be in your face, so its absence is definitely suspicious.

One thing is for sure, the kind of information inequality that this issue must have had in 1988 will not be tolerated in 2018. Perhaps this is something James Solomon actually can help with.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 22:40
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well, i'm no fan of fulop but i doubt he's stupid enuff to be "in bed" with the appraisal company. also, there are gonna be issues with any appraisal. it makes sense to do another appraisal, imo, next year and then rolling appraisals until dtjc market adjusts and stabilizes. i don't think it's in anyone's interest to see dtjc become a ghost town after 6pm again since this would surely have negative knock-on effects for other neighborhoods.Quote:

Bamb00zle wrote:
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brewster wrote:
All I know is that if land is now 60% of the value, and your neighbor's identical land is valued at half yours, making their taxes 30% lower, heads will roll. Downtowners will not accept the standard line: "your neighbors taxes are not relevant to your appeal". Land is land.

The "attorney density" DT is very high, they can't fudge this like they do regular appraisals. I've had appraisals where they groomed the numbers so that the comp, replacement, and income methods came out within a 1.3% range. You're more likely to golf 18 holes of "hole in one".


So, if you’re correct Brewster, the new reval company Fulop hired to replace the crooked, terrible, incompetent reval company he fired, has completely screwed up…. And the city is likely in for more law suits, and another reval in short order.

Given the City’s wanton disregard for the inequitable distribution of property taxes and the impact it had on different neighborhoods, I don’t understand why there isn’t some kind of disparate impact suit already….

How much is all this incompetence, to put it kindly, going to cost us? How many of our neighbors had to sell their homes over the past 20 years because taxes were so inequitable. And who bought those homes? There’s some stinky stuff hidden behind the LLC’s that buy so much property around here. Who are the real owners?

In any event it seems we now know why Fulop already floated the idea of another reval – he knows this one is an awful job. Won’t it be interesting if someone finds he’s connected in some way to the reval company he hired… I’m sure they’ve started looking.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 22:17
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brewster wrote:
All I know is that if land is now 60% of the value, and your neighbor's identical land is valued at half yours, making their taxes 30% lower, heads will roll. Downtowners will not accept the standard line: "your neighbors taxes are not relevant to your appeal". Land is land.

The "attorney density" DT is very high, they can't fudge this like they do regular appraisals. I've had appraisals where they groomed the numbers so that the comp, replacement, and income methods came out within a 1.3% range. You're more likely to golf 18 holes of "hole in one".


So, if you’re correct Brewster, the new reval company Fulop hired to replace the crooked, terrible, incompetent reval company he fired, has completely screwed up…. And the city is likely in for more law suits, and another reval in short order.

Given the City’s wanton disregard for the inequitable distribution of property taxes and the impact it had on different neighborhoods, I don’t understand why there isn’t some kind of disparate impact suit already….

How much is all this incompetence, to put it kindly, going to cost us? How many of our neighbors had to sell their homes over the past 20 years because taxes were so inequitable. And who bought those homes? There’s some stinky stuff hidden behind the LLC’s that buy so much property around here. Who are the real owners?

In any event it seems we now know why Fulop already floated the idea of another reval – he knows this one is an awful job. Won’t it be interesting if someone finds he’s connected in some way to the reval company he hired… I’m sure they’ve started looking.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 21:53
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Interesting point Brewster. I wonder what the POS is in challenging the land assessment discrepancies and hence, the entire appraisal process. Lawyers should know, but I have not seen this argument being bubbled up on Nextdoor..., yet.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 19:36
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All I know is that if land is now 60% of the value, and your neighbor's identical land is valued at half yours, making their taxes 30% lower, heads will roll. Downtowners will not accept the standard line: "your neighbors taxes are not relevant to your appeal". Land is land.

The "attorney density" DT is very high, they can't fudge this like they do regular appraisals. I've had appraisals where they groomed the numbers so that the comp, replacement, and income methods came out within a 1.3% range. You're more likely to golf 18 holes of "hole in one".

Posted on: 2018/2/23 17:47
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Actually, something similar happened after the 1988 revaluation. Land was under assessed and improvements (buildings) were over assessed. McCann got elected after the revaluation and make land values higher, he also increased businesses which was protected. McCann was sent to prison and Schundler came on the scene to finish the job of correcting the reval but the courts did not side with Schundler, however the land changes did remain. I remember my land value changed from $10,000 to $25,000 but the total assessment did not change, that land increase was deducted from the improvements.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 17:14
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I can appreciate having another reval to capture the impact of the current one. That being said, I got the feeling that it is already captured in quite a few assessments. Just looking at friends assessment cards and my own, we seem to be in the 10-15% discount which would make a county appeal unsuccessful. I wonder it was intentional from the appraisal company.

Instead of having a single broad reval 2 years later, it would be more useful to have a plan for a rolling reval, e.g. 20% of properties every 2 years. It would fit within the 10 year mandate.


Agreed! It would be funny if the new reval captures the 10-15% discount, resulting in even higher property taxes downtown. The result of unintended consequences.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 16:16
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I'm getting the feeling the biggest issue of this reval will be the half assed way they're valuing the land, which has become the major portion of the home value. If, as someone said, it's valuation is the remainder after subtracting construction cost, this is going to be a shitshow. Every bank appraisal I've ever had has been a work of fiction in that "replacement cost" method. If they end up with the land values per sq ft on a block all over the place people are going to sue.

On the other hand, the land value is a way to keep assessments up to date between revals. Statistical analysis should be able to show how much land is appreciating in the various sectors of the city, and the land assessment could be adjusted yearly, greatly softening the blow of a reval. It's ridiculous that currently lot values can be so disparate, you don't need to count bathrooms to know what the dirt is worth.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 16:00
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I can appreciate having another reval to capture the impact of the current one. That being said, I got the feeling that it is already captured in quite a few assessments. Just looking at friends assessment cards and my own, we seem to be in the 10-15% discount which would make a county appeal unsuccessful. I wonder it was intentional from the appraisal company.

Instead of having a single broad reval 2 years later, it would be more useful to have a plan for a rolling reval, e.g. 20% of properties every 2 years. It would fit within the 10 year mandate.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 11:16
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By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

Jersey City's long-delayed property revaluation is going so swimmingly, Mayor Steve Fulop wants to do it all again next year.

Fulop said tonight he plans to put a measure before the council in the upcoming weeks that would pave the way for a second reval in 2019, one the mayor said would readjust assessments in the wake of an expected dip in home values caused by the current reval.

"We are doing our best to make this difficult time as manageable as possible for residents because we don't want any resident to have to struggle," he said.

More

Posted on: 2018/2/23 3:55
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HeightsNative wrote:
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HeightsNative wrote:
Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.


I can't wait to see the pics afterwards of 5 old folks shivering in the rain LOL


You can be assured one of them will be Yvonne, who will mug for the TV cameras and repeat her lies over and over.

Nick I see so much negativity towards Yvonne, are you a home owner and do you consider yourself affected by this reval ? Also are you pleased with the abatements and city services ? Just want to know why you do not think Yvonne's reasoning is valid.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 3:11
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Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.


I can't wait to see the pics afterwards of 5 old folks shivering in the rain LOL


You can be assured one of them will be Yvonne, who will mug for the TV cameras and repeat her lies over and over.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 2:56
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Seniors shouldn't be losing their homes when there are programs like this:

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/ptr/index.shtml


How much ? How much do they freeze it from.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 2:23
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HeightsNative wrote:
Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.


I can't wait to see the pics afterwards of 5 old folks shivering in the rain LOL

Posted on: 2018/2/22 19:40
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Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 19:08
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