brewster wrote:
If the issue is really maintenance money rather than a sweetheart deal for the well-heeled, is there anybody in JC who wouldn't rather see a 1 dollar access fee than this development? Lots of other state parks like Round Valley have them, its $5 per car there.

Yvonne wrote:
There should be no fee, in case you do not know, JC transferred acres to the state for a nominal fee to create this park. We gave up land so why be taxed twice with a fee?

neverleft wrote:
.
(12/28/17) Liberty State Park marina plan moves forward

Updated 1:37 PM; Posted 1:30 PM
By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY -- A Texas marina company and the state Department of Environmental Protection have agreed on the terms of a new lease that would allow the company to expand its current marina in Liberty State Park and build a new one on the park's south end.

The tentative agreement between Suntex Marinas and the DEP puts the controversial marina expansion plan one step closer to reality. The proposal, criticized by park advocates as a commercial takeover of the 1,200-acre park, must be reviewed by the DEP and approved by the State House Commission.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... s.html#incart_river_index

Ralph_Abutts wrote:
Quote:

TheBigGuy wrote:
I am curious to see Liberty National's take on this proposal... I know years ago Tiger had to park his yacht over at the marina @ Battery Park. Would they want an active marina, this proposed size next to them?

When I worked at Liberty National golf course, years ago, as in as far back the first time Tiger competed at the FedEx cup there, that is when I first heard of this proposal. I'm surprised this project (proposal) remained dormant/under the radar for ~years~. Maybe the are waiting for the changing of the guard (governor) for it to be lost in the shuffle? Liberty national was in favor of it, then, plus building a large apartment residence or hotel, IIRC, on the edge of its property, right next to where the marina is situated.

Improving Liberty State Park: Guiding Principles

Any improvements to Liberty State Park must be guided by a clearly defined set of principles ?
principles that are designed to both improve the visitor experience and increase revenue
without compromising the elements of the Park that draws 4 million people to it annually. In
preparing this report, DEP has adhered to the following principles:

? Liberty State Park?s core strengths must not be compromised. Liberty State Park is
unique in New Jersey?s state park system. The park?s core strengths as a natural oasis in
the midst of one of the most densely developed regions in the world and as an
unparalleled location for viewing one of the most breathtaking vistas of the built
environment, must not be compromised by any changes to the park.

? New amenities and facilities should increase the number of regular, as opposed to
one-time, visitors. Currently, the limited existing commercial activity is ?destinationoriented,?
attracting one-time visitors who come for a specific, one-time event. Adding
additional amenities will encourage repeat visits and attract new visitors, which will in
turn, make the park economically sustainable without the need for funding from
General Revenue.

? Any revenue-producing additions to the park should enhance its appeal as a
multifaceted family destination. The park already offers a variety of active and passive
family activities, ranging from playgrounds and large fields to the Liberty Science Center.
New activity should be compatible with the park?s reputation as a family-friendly
destination.

? New revenue-producing activities should strengthen the economic base of the region
as well as the communities surrounding the park. The jobs and opportunities provided
by new amenities will help boost the local economy and have a multiplier effect across
the region.

? New revenue-producing activity should generate as much income as possible for park
operations without intruding on existing park uses. Liberty State Park is first and
foremost a public park and the consideration of any potential partners must
complement the Park?s status as a world-class park and cultural attraction.

? New revenue-producing activity should be open to the public. This includes cultural
attractions, concessions, restaurants, free and ticketed events, and many other
potential uses. However, limited private development could be a low-impact and highrevenue-producing
option, if it is done in the right place and at the right scale.

135jc wrote:
I wonder Brewster when you launch your kayak do you pay the ramp fee? My original point was that done right this could be an asset to the park.

Unless the operating budget of every entity in the state is considered a "deficit," then claiming that LSP has a $2 million deficit is another falsehood trumped up to allow self-serving commercial leases in LSP. The Park has annual operating expenses of $3.5 million, and brings in $1.5 million in revenues. The remaining $2 million comes out of the $39 million already budgeted for all state parks.

To put the cost of LSP's $2 million annual operating budget in perspective: it is only 20 percent of what the NJ taxpayer has spent on the Governor's $10 million Bridgegate legal fees, and just 0.00006 percent of the $33.8 billion New Jersey State Budget.

The Christie Administration can try to spin the numbers at Liberty State Park, but the numbers don't lie: The development of public trust lands at LSP will not begin to solve the state budget deficit, but it will certainly increase New Jersey's urban open space deficit and forever mar one our nation's great public places.

Ralph_Abutts wrote:
Quote:

Also, where does one buy/pay for a launch ticket to avoid a parking fine? Thanks!

I have not been in that area recently (I run through there in much warmer weather temps), but IIRC, isn't there a muni-meter like ticket printing machine right next to a portta-potty or two, and next the boat launch area? I do recall seeing signs in the area warning/instructing about when it is okay to park and ticketing, etc.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

135jc wrote:
Fulop can play hardball here but folds to developers and increases the paulus hook height restriction. The truth is any footprint a marina would take up can be made up by expanding into the areas of the park that are not open to the public. Make the marina pay for the remediation of the land and for the bulk head. LSP is a beautiful space but huge and if done right this could be a nice addition to the South end

So tell us, how often are you at the south end? Sounds like never. Land in the middle is not a replacement for the waterfront. When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.

This has a lot in common with Trump removing protections for western lands. Taking public assets and giving them away to private interests.

Also, where does one buy/pay for a launch ticket to avoid a parking fine? Thanks!

TheBigGuy wrote:
I am curious to see Liberty National's take on this proposal... I know years ago Tiger had to park his yacht over at the marina @ Battery Park. Would they want an active marina, this proposed size next to them?

iGreg wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:


Wow. Is this a recent change? I used to launch my kayak from there often and never had an issue. I was not even aware that there is/was a fee to park there. Is there any signage to that effect? Also, where does one buy/pay for a launch ticket to avoid a parking fine? Thanks!

For boat/trailer receipt you'd pay way down the end in the small office/administration building (near flags).

Also looking for an update on this as I've not done it in years but I'd go out solo with a Klepper Kayak and gotten ticketed for leaving my car in that lot.

It's a drag to leave your gear on that little dock and then have to park your car down much further in the free lots.

bodhipooh wrote:


Wow. Is this a recent change? I used to launch my kayak from there often and never had an issue. I was not even aware that there is/was a fee to park there. Is there any signage to that effect? Also, where does one buy/pay for a launch ticket to avoid a parking fine? Thanks!

iGreg wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
The boat launch lot has a fee.

Used to launch a small boat there and if you parked in the lot with a trailer attached you needed a receipt in the window showing that you paid - you could launch a kayak and leave your car in that area for free if a trailer was not present, but understand they started ticketing any cars in there w/o a launch receipt.

brewster wrote:
Land in the middle is not a replacement for the waterfront. When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.

This has a lot in common with Trump removing protections for western lands. Taking public assets and giving them away to private interests.

Monroe wrote:
The boat launch lot has a fee.

iGreg wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.

Are you able to leave your car there (in the launch parking area) or do you need to pay and have a recipe for boat launch to use the ramp as a kayak put it?


The south end of the park is heaven and not commercialized and hopefully can stay this way.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

135jc wrote:
Fulop can play hardball here but folds to developers and increases the paulus hook height restriction. The truth is any footprint a marina would take up can be made up by expanding into the areas of the park that are not open to the public. Make the marina pay for the remediation of the land and for the bulk head. LSP is a beautiful space but huge and if done right this could be a nice addition to the South end

So tell us, how often are you at the south end? Sounds like never. Land in the middle is not a replacement for the waterfront. When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.

This has a lot in common with Trump removing protections for western lands. Taking public assets and giving them away to private interests.

iGreg wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.

Are you able to leave your car there (in the launch parking area) or do you need to pay and have a recipe for boat launch to use the ramp as a kayak put it?


The south end of the park is heaven and not commercialized and hopefully can stay this way.

brewster wrote:
When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

135jc wrote:
Fulop can play hardball here but folds to developers and increases the paulus hook height restriction. The truth is any footprint a marina would take up can be made up by expanding into the areas of the park that are not open to the public. Make the marina pay for the remediation of the land and for the bulk head. LSP is a beautiful space but huge and if done right this could be a nice addition to the South end

So tell us, how often are you at the south end? Sounds like never. Land in the middle is not a replacement for the waterfront. When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.

This has a lot in common with Trump removing protections for western lands. Taking public assets and giving them away to private interests.

135jc wrote:
Fulop can play hardball here but folds to developers and increases the paulus hook height restriction. The truth is any footprint a marina would take up can be made up by expanding into the areas of the park that are not open to the public. Make the marina pay for the remediation of the land and for the bulk head. LSP is a beautiful space but huge and if done right this could be a nice addition to the South end