Will legislation put the brakes on New Jersey's Uber drivers?

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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tommyc_37 wrote:
Uber is quickly becoming a pain in the ass, wow.

Flew into Newark Airport and requested an Uber. The first TWO drivers, cancelled on me because I was not going to New York. They accepted the ride, called me, asked where I was going, and hung up when I said Jersey City.

I've had this happen too, very annoying. I think it happened twice. Both times, I contacted Uber and they issued $10 credits. I also understand that it's a big no no in Uber's book for drivers to cancel and they only allow a certain number per driver. When it happened to me, the drivers asked me to cancel (so it wasn't a bad reflection on them), but I refused and they ended up canceling.

Posted on: 2015/6/12 14:19

tommyc_37

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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Uber is quickly becoming a pain in the ass, wow.

Flew into Newark Airport and requested an Uber. The first TWO drivers, cancelled on me because I was not going to New York. They accepted the ride, called me, asked where I was going, and hung up when I said Jersey City.

The 3rd attempt was crazy. The driver calls me, asks where I am, and requests that I go to the "3rd floor" so he can avoid the police. I was like, are you freaking joking?

Finally he "risked it" by coming right to the airport exit at the terminal to pick me up. Apparently it's illegal for Uber to operate outside of Newark Airport now...? The State of NJ is trying to regulate and/or remove Uber from doing business in NJ.

Let's think about this for a second. This is basically like in the 90s, NJ trying to outlaw Google in order to protect the yellow pages.

I swear, NJ is such a f**king ass backwards place sometimes.

Posted on: 2015/6/12 4:59

bodhipooh

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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greenville wrote:
If your using Uber to go from Jersey City to NYC make sure have someone ride in the front passenger seat of the car since the Port Authority is pulling over drivers and giving tickets.

What kind of tickets? What is the actual violation/basis for which a ticket is being issued?

Posted on: 2015/5/18 14:55

greenville

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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If your using Uber to go from Jersey City to NYC make sure have someone ride in the front passenger seat of the car since the Port Authority is pulling over drivers and giving tickets.

Posted on: 2015/5/18 12:58

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Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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Will legislation put the brakes on New Jersey's Uber drivers?

Everett Merrill, @EverettMerrill 10:40 a.m. EDT May 17, 2015

NORTH PLAINFIELD – Rick Thul estimates he has driven thousands of miles crisscrossing the country with his family, including three times in a motor home.

The 66-year-old borough resident never had more than a 15-mile commute to work, but loves driving, so when he retired in 2012 and was looking for a part-time gig, he made a sensible choice.

He became an Uber driver.

"I didn't really want to do a full- time commitment," he said. "But paying your taxes in New Jersey is always a challenge. My son Eric said 'what about Uber?' I didn't even know what Uber was until he told me about it."

Uber is a smartphone, ride-sharing business that is gaining momentum with millennials, particularly in urban areas. In New York City, there already are more Uber cars than yellow cabs. Headquartered in San Francisco, California, the service was founded in 2009; today, the service is now offered in 55 countries and more than 200 cities worldwide. While it is generating billions in revenue, it is also has drawn protests from governments and taxi companies, questioning the service's safety and legality.

But going by the numbers, its popularity with customers and drivers is clearly growing. According to figures supplied by the company, Uber currently allows more New Jerseyeans to support themselves economically than ADP (4,500 jobs) and MetLife (4,000).

"The major appeal to me is that I can work whenever I want," Thul said. I like to go to bed late, so a lot of times I will go out at night and work until 2 o'clock in the morning."

But a bill that is rapidly moving through the state legislature has the potential to put the brakes on the estimated 7,500 Uber drivers in New Jersey. The bill, A7365, would establish insurance and safety requirements for companies that use digital network or software applications, like Uber. If it passes, company officials say they may stop doing business in the Garden State.

Posted on: 2015/5/18 5:48

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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The recent Uber discussion is very ironic. At least the public seems to love Uber. And hate the Jersey City cabs. My experiences with both have been no different than what others have stated time after time after time. JC taxi drivers often claim the meter is broken (even if they're telling the truth, what kind of excuse is that?), I've been in cars where the meter runs fast more than a few times, the vast majority of white cabs at the Grove Path stink of tobacco, drivers talk on their cell throughout the ride and the car is often falling apart. That's just my experience... others have voiced other criticisms. I am bewildered that a few of you insist on picking on Uber when the alternative is a zillion times worse. I hope never to set foot in a JC cab again unless the industry finds a way to compete with Uber and the like and recognizes we are no longer in the stone ages. Change always breeds resistance, but this is just plain bewildering.

Posted on: 2015/5/9 23:48

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
Uber originally made it optional for Uber Black drivers to accept UberX fares. Then they said that it was such a swell arrangement that everyone had to take them. So no it wasn't cherry picking, it was changing the terms of an agreement for drivers who signed up to provide a specific service (and who invest in a very expensive vehicle).

I'd also note that, if drivers are truly independent contractors, then one could expect that they COULD decide to decline an assignment or fare without penalty, even if they were being selective.

Not if the contractor agreement says otherwise.

Well no. If a "independent contractor agreement" gives too much control to the company, then the worker will be considered an employee. The law sets forth standards for what constitutes employment, and the description of the relationship in the contract does not control.

In general, sure. How does this apply to Uber?

Posted on: 2015/5/9 4:26

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
Uber originally made it optional for Uber Black drivers to accept UberX fares. Then they said that it was such a swell arrangement that everyone had to take them. So no it wasn't cherry picking, it was changing the terms of an agreement for drivers who signed up to provide a specific service (and who invest in a very expensive vehicle).

I'd also note that, if drivers are truly independent contractors, then one could expect that they COULD decide to decline an assignment or fare without penalty, even if they were being selective.

Not if the contractor agreement says otherwise.

Well no. If a "independent contractor agreement" gives too much control to the company, then the worker will be considered an employee. The law sets forth standards for what constitutes employment, and the description of the relationship in the contract does not control.

Posted on: 2015/5/9 0:48

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Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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I see it more as a franchise business, whereby the franchisor always looks for ways to control the franchisee via fees and charges, then creates service standards and expectations that eat into the franchisee's profit margin

Posted on: 2015/5/8 23:13

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Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
Uber originally made it optional for Uber Black drivers to accept UberX fares. Then they said that it was such a swell arrangement that everyone had to take them. So no it wasn't cherry picking, it was changing the terms of an agreement for drivers who signed up to provide a specific service (and who invest in a very expensive vehicle).

Coincidentally, I took a black car yesterday (and was charged UberX rates). I talked to the driver about this discussion. First, he claims he doesn't mind very much getting UberX fares. "It's better than nothing." Second, he is not forced to take the ride. However, there could be consequences if he turns down too many. Anyway, he seemed perfectly content with the system, but then again, that's one driver.

Posted on: 2015/5/8 22:57

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
Uber originally made it optional for Uber Black drivers to accept UberX fares. Then they said that it was such a swell arrangement that everyone had to take them. So no it wasn't cherry picking, it was changing the terms of an agreement for drivers who signed up to provide a specific service (and who invest in a very expensive vehicle).

I'd also note that, if drivers are truly independent contractors, then one could expect that they COULD decide to decline an assignment or fare without penalty, even if they were being selective.

Not if the contractor agreement says otherwise.

Posted on: 2015/5/8 21:26

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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Uber originally made it optional for Uber Black drivers to accept UberX fares. Then they said that it was such a swell arrangement that everyone had to take them. So no it wasn't cherry picking, it was changing the terms of an agreement for drivers who signed up to provide a specific service (and who invest in a very expensive vehicle).

I'd also note that, if drivers are truly independent contractors, then one could expect that they COULD decide to decline an assignment or fare without penalty, even if they were being selective.

Posted on: 2015/5/8 20:41

bodhipooh

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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JPhurst wrote:
True for some, not true for others. UBER's decision, for example, to bar Uber Black drivers if they don't take the UBER X Fares indicates that the company retains a lot more control than they care to admit, and that the driver is not really given an opportunity to go into business for himself.

Talk about cherry picking... or, selective understanding? Uber's decision to penalize UberBLACK drivers for refusing to take UberX fares was only applicable to UB drivers that CHOSE to be allowed to accept UX rides! The issue at hand is that some UB drivers figured out that most customers were requesting UX rides (cheaper, and more drivers available, normally) and so Uber gave them a chance to be able to accept those fares. But, of course, the UB drivers are crying foul because they want ALL of the upside, with NONE of the downside. They want to be able to accept UX rides when convenient (say, when they are idle without customers) but they don't want to accept them when other options may be available. They gambled, realized it was a bad deal, and now want to back out of it. It would be like playing blackjack, betting $100 and once the dealer draws an ace, wanting to withdraw your bet. Those UB drivers can cry me a river...

Posted on: 2015/5/8 16:38

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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True for some, not true for others. UBER's decision, for example, to bar Uber Black drivers if they don't take the UBER X Fares indicates that the company retains a lot more control than they care to admit, and that the driver is not really given an opportunity to go into business for himself. "You can work a lot of hours, and maybe make more money, or work fewer house and make very little money" is not the only factor in determining whether the driver is an employee or independent contractor. The cases that have been brought in California against Uber show that the distinction is blurry.

In any event, things can and should be done for drivers even if they fall on the "independent contractor" side of the line. Companies have had no trouble making changes to the rules when they see fit to do so, like when it changed the law in New York to have drivers covered under the Workers Compensation statutes even if they are classified as contractors.

Posted on: 2015/5/8 15:38

JcDevil

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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Quote:

JPhurst wrote:

And yes, UBER is not the only company that is a problem in this regard. Misclassification of workers is rampant in the black car industry.

UBER is just the only company that thinks their branding should allow them to change the rules.

Except the difference is that in the actual black car industry, workers are misclassified because they have a schedule, have set hours, etc. With Uber, that isn't the case at all. A driver using Uber can turn the app on whenever they want and off whenever they want.

Posted on: 2015/5/8 14:55

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
[quote]

It doesn't even make sense in a business/operations sense either. If you pay them a flat rate, they don't have an incentive to pick up customers.

If the commissions that they earn are superior to the rate they would earn while they are engaged to wait, then of course they have.

And yes, UBER is not the only company that is a problem in this regard. Misclassification of workers is rampant in the black car industry.

UBER is just the only company that thinks their branding should allow them to change the rules.

Posted on: 2015/5/7 21:58

caj11

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
We set basic labor standards even when you can find a worker that will take less.

And that will just mean less Uber jobs overall, is that what we want? People are working for Uber because it's better than the alternative.

It doesn't even make sense in a business/operations sense either. If you pay them a flat rate, they don't have an incentive to pick up customers.

Furthermore, regular taxi and car-for-hire drivers don't get a flat hourly rate either. That's just the nature of the business. It is self-employment and so you "eat what you kill" so to speak. I don't get all these issues that JPHurst keeps bringing up with Uber are any different from what a regular taxi driver would face anyway.

Posted on: 2015/5/7 21:18

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
We set basic labor standards even when you can find a worker that will take less.

And that will just mean less Uber jobs overall, is that what we want? People are working for Uber because it's better than the alternative.

It doesn't even make sense in a business/operations sense either. If you pay them a flat rate, they don't have an incentive to pick up customers.

Posted on: 2015/5/7 19:26

JCMan8

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
We set basic labor standards even when you can find a worker that will take less.

True but completely irrelevant. As far as I know, an hourly wage has nothing to do with NJ's apparent effort to ban Uber from the state.

Posted on: 2015/5/7 19:20

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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We set basic labor standards even when you can find a worker that will take less.

Posted on: 2015/5/7 18:39

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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JPhurst wrote:
I wouldn't mind Uber not allowing tipping if they guaranteed their drivers a certain hourly wage while they were continuously booked in.

I'm not sure why they would, as drivers are accepting the terms as-is.

Posted on: 2015/5/7 14:03

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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I wouldn't mind Uber not allowing tipping if they guaranteed their drivers a certain hourly wage while they were continuously booked in.

Posted on: 2015/5/7 1:51

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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JcDevil wrote:
[quote]

They are a bit more clear than that...

I stand corrected. I will now go sit in the corner forever.

Posted on: 2015/5/6 20:01

JcDevil

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

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anonymess wrote:

No matter what you think of tipping, the abhorrent custom is a fact of life for the moment. Or you can be a four star restaurant, i.e., Per Se, and eliminate tipping because you rule the world. Uber has no rule that tipping is not allowed or drivers cannot accept tips. They simply make it a gray. They never tell the customer not to tip. They say you are not required to tip, which is the case anywhere you go.

They are a bit more clear than that. From the FAQ:

Quote:

You don?t need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file ? there?s no need to tip.

Uber is billed as a cashless, tipless service. Good service gets rewarded with a 5 rating, bad service gets punished with a bad rating, and eventual removal. Now, we can talk about whether or not the fares are fair. Personally, I think that the UberX fares are reasonable in NYC, and a bit low in NJ, and would have no problem if they were to raise them by 20% or so, but that's a different conversation.

Posted on: 2015/5/6 19:33