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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
 
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Simply BP. Avalon in Edgewater was approved under pretty shoddy building codes. Avalon Cove in JC is also a potential death trap. Burden of proof needs to show it isn't an issue ... no issue personally with fab asking.
Posted on: 2015/5/5 1:23
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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The Avalon cove fire had nothing to do with wall cladding. That fire happened because of the stupidity of a work crew, and its ineptitude in how they initially reacted to the situation they caused. Once the fire started to spread, it grew out of control because of shoddy construction code that allows for the absence of firewalls between units. How that is at all relevant to wall cladding in JC is beyond me. Show me in the fire report linked here how ANY of this is relevant to JC. Your mental leap to link the two is impressive. Simply put, FAB is fear mongering. You are just being a sidekick to his actions.
Posted on: 2015/5/1 10:55
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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I didn't miss the point - there isn't one to miss! Like I said, shows us a place, any place, where you have reason to believe the builder improperly swapped one product for the other. Also, despite all your renting and raving to the contrary, there is. Itching in that report that concludes or states the Alucobest in the Melbourne building was responsible for the fire, or its intensity. You are the one reaching that conclusion. As for not being in charge of standards or codes in the building industry, believe me when I tell you, I'm just as glad I'm not at all involved: my life is much more fun, and my career much more profitable. But, being that is neither here nor there, I will also say this: I don't need to be in charge of a travel agency to know that Detroit sucks or to know that anyone that tells me otherwise is full of shit.
Posted on: 2015/5/1 10:50
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Perhaps body-s**t - you can roast your chicken littles on the next Avalon Cove-type flames. It's relevant to JC.
Posted on: 2015/5/1 7:16
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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You missed the point totally bodhipoo - The product at the centre of these warnings is Alucobest, a significantly cheaper, Chinese imported substitute for the more fire-retardant and non-combustible Australian made, Alucobond.
No-one will advertise an inferior product (except for one) that isn't to code - Thank goodness you have nothing to do with standards and codes in the building / construction industry. I can list 6+ buildings in JC alone that claim the use of Alucobond, but is it really? As I hinted earlier, tenders / contacts are won or lost on cost !
Posted on: 2015/5/1 3:18
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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I am the one that called you a fear mongering, chicken little type. You provide all this information, but you fail to establish how any of it is relevant to JC. From your own link, there is ONE building in Hoboken that has used Alucobest. From the linked report, there is nothing particularly incriminating about the Alucobest substitution. They only declare that the product is "not non-combustible" but the report does NOT establish that the product is responsible for the actual fire, or its intensity. They simply state that because of the fire intensity, they felt compelled to review and take a closer look. Upon doing so, they discovered the builder had substituted Alucobest for Alucobond. Nothing else is actually stated, or concluded. So, again, I ask how is this relevant to us here in JC? Do you have ANY evidence that Alucobest has been used in JC? Do you have reason to believe that wall cladding of inferior quality is being used? If so, report it to the authorities and tell us. In any case, the report itself makes no statements beyond stating that the material is not non-combustible, and therefore does not meet the Australian building codes for Melbourne/Victoria.
Posted on: 2015/5/1 2:45
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Home away from home
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Here are a few more building I will not invest in that should be investigated in the interest of public safety:
http://fairfieldmetal.com/gallery/ The product at the centre of these warnings is Alucobest, a significantly cheaper, Chinese imported substitute for the more fire-retardant and non-combustible Australian made, Alucobond. It appears that Alucobest is being substituted for Alucobond by many primarily to save on costs If it was me, I'd be wanting a test done on my building from the architects and developers plus a certification from Alucobond that its their product. As for the Hoboken Apartments mentioned in the previous post, the developer / architect has an option to seek compensation from the supplier as they have listed the materials used as Alucobest if and when investigations are sort by NJ / NY building regulations or tenant / landlords in a class action Kudos goes to the Melbourne City Council and the State Fire Investigators for taking this to the research body to test this product Alucobest. This is the findings by them http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/About ... nt%20Fire%20Docklands.pdf What I find disappointing is that our NJ / NY officials never did their due diligence or question why we have had a spate of complex fires that have totally destroyed the building
Posted on: 2015/5/1 0:24
Edited by fat-ass-bike on 2015/5/1 0:52:14
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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Oops read the small print on this advert - They even think that Alucobest is worth promoting!
http://fairfieldmetal.com/portfolio/928-jefferson-st/ The architect and developer must think how wonderful they are, yet they have inadvertently put lives at risk and it would appear never did their due diligence with the product or simply focused on profits ahead of safety! My complaint is fire and safety compliance over profits with developers - NOT highrise apartments
Posted on: 2015/4/30 23:42
Edited by fat-ass-bike on 2015/5/1 0:02:43
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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lots of jealous people on jclist.
Posted on: 2015/4/30 23:41
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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It is more than fires, I remember Newport tenants complaining about windows falling out. While I don't fear living in a highrise, I do wonder about the quality of construction in JC. I definitely remember Mocco's Liberty Harbor development had cement poured during raining weather.
Posted on: 2015/4/30 22:32
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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fear mongering ? I'm not the one that did the research and investigating. Its in the construction industry journals and giving developers and builders the 'heads-up' to do some voluntary compliance before it will cost them millions via litigation and regulators stepping in. It also gives people like me the 'heads-up' on illegal products in the marketplace. Its very much the topic of conversation with many managers in the construction industry with some even aware of this product years earlier, but kept quiet. Like asbestos, it will have devastating results in the future. I would have thought families should take this seriously, while others might like to stick their heads in the sand - I can't wait for insurance companies to void policies due to poor construction via materials. Fraud, deception, aggravated negligence, fire and safety standards / codes isn't fear mongering.
Posted on: 2015/4/30 22:04
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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The influence of architecture and the environment on the human psyche is inescapable, so it?s no surprise that there?s plenty of research demonstrating the positive and negative effects of high rise living on development, socialization, and mental health. It?s interesting reading. There's probably a good chance you're more aware of those effects than the average person.
Posted on: 2015/4/30 17:23
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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are you drunk?
Posted on: 2015/4/30 3:30
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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what a stupid thread.
Posted on: 2015/4/30 3:28
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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Dude, give it a rest. You are fear mongering chicken little type. You can't argue numbers. In all of 2013, only 325 people died in apartment building fires. 100 times more people died in car accidents. If buildings were as flimsily built as you want us to believe, there would be many more fires and fatalities. Obviously, fire prevention measures are working, as fires continue to happen (at a lower rate) but fatalities and injuries are decreasing at an overall faster rate.
Posted on: 2015/4/30 3:02
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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I look at it like a car - if your car has a high safety rating but you get a death trap, would you be happy?
We have codes on construction and materials we are allowed to use - would you be happy if a small apartment fire ends up being a total distruction of a complex ... Would you be happy? We've been lucky with some devastating complex fires that hasn't cost a life. People have been deceived that their building were up to code ... Codes are in place so that don't burn fast which leads me to believe we have a problem here.
Posted on: 2015/4/29 23:36
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Um, cool.
Posted on: 2015/4/29 16:19
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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Same thing is with flying on a commercial airline. I know it is almost safer to be on those flights than staying home, but that doesn't make me feel any less easy during a bumpy flight. It's a conflict between rational and instinct. I don't want to have such conflict while I'm home. Those who don't mind living in a high rise, enjoy it. I have no interest. Thank you.
Posted on: 2015/4/29 16:06
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Whether it is rational or irrational, I am still afraid of living in a high rise building. Call it phobia. Fine. It's just the way I feel. Statistics is not going to make me feel any different.
Posted on: 2015/4/29 16:00
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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So we should be worried based on an article about a product in which you have no proof that this material is even used in the US, let alone in JC high rise towers
Nice. Way to fear monger. People reallly hate downtown on jclist. Looks like you want to influence the market here. Also a post about being afraid of living in a high rise and fires in high rise buildings rofl Why do people always hate people that can afford a higher level of living?
Posted on: 2015/4/29 15:52
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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Look up the definition of phobia. Every year, over 30,000 people die in car accidents, but most people continue to drive or ride in vehicles. In 2013, less than 3,000 people died in structure fires at home. The death toll in apartment buildings? A paltry 325. If I had to roll the dice on where I want to encounter a fire, a high rise is the place to be!!
Posted on: 2015/4/29 15:33
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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I'm afraid of living in a high rise building. The view may be awesome, but I would prefer being closer to the ground.
Posted on: 2015/4/29 13:52
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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Those interested, the investigation has ended and in Australia the product known as Alucobest was found to be an non-compliant material that fuelled a rapid spreading fire there. The investigation was conducted by the CSIRO (Commonwealth Science and Industrial Research Organisation)
Approximately 870 buildings in Melbourne Australia are now the subject to investigations by their building industry regulators and more then 100 tenants / landlords from the first fire have sort legal representation in a class action against the builder. The report suggests that ALUCOBEST was sold as a building cladding for many external high rise apartments and the product had a number of different names was sold worldwide - especially in building boom cities!
Posted on: 2015/4/29 9:52
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Re: Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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Just found this news story that confirms the concern - note the spelling is ALUCOBEST not alucobist as I spelt it.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vict ... ry-fni0fit3-1227277284770
Posted on: 2015/4/4 2:49
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Attention high rise tenants and investors !
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Home away from home
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In my field of construction we have journals, not to dissimilar to medical journals about the latest and greatest (cheapest) construction materials available on the market.
Some are great, while some are cheap and nasty that don't meet building codes but developers are prepared to gamble with their use under the noses of inspectors and authorities. Red flags are out after a few high rise fires have burn down buildings at an alarming rate because of the cladding used to panel the buildings. In a number of countries (most likely here too, but it's kept quiet) these panels have been used without government approval (building standards / codes) that nearly costed lives, but did destroy buildings with local fire departments unable to extinguish them in time. If you're looking to be a tenant or purchase an apartment, especially if you have a family, I recommend you ask if this 'third world' product called ALUCOBIST (it could also be sold under other names) was used to clad the building which is made in China. I have read that developers throughout the world have bought this product, as its cheap but now on the radar as being a dangerous fire product that isn't up to code anywhere in the world! These findings and concerns come from Jonathan Barnett, a leading engineering expert who worked on the 9/11 attack investigation and believes lives of thousands of people could be at risk around the world if accidental fires occur. There is an investigation in Australia that is underway with their authorities (Fire Departments / City Engineers / State Inspectors) seriously concerned with the most likely scenario being that these building will need to be re-clad with approved products at the property owners expense if the building are out of 'warranty' with the developers ... its going to be ugly with legal costs on responsibilities !
Posted on: 2015/4/4 1:17
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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