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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Pebble wrote:

I never blamed Wilson for the reports about the fractured eye, just as I don’t blame Brown for the initial reports that his hands were up or the statements saying “don’t shoot.” From all the accounts of the grand jury, those testimonies were not used.


They were "used" and found to be not credible.

It was revealed that several witnesses testified before the grand jury that Brown put his arms up to surrender. However none of these witnesses said this to police when they were first interviewed. These witnesses then admitted to the grand jury that many of them were actually not present for the shooting and simply repeated what others heard or what they assumed happened.

In other words, they admitted lying. Other witnesses lied by saying Brown was shot in the back. This is why, objectively, these witnesses were not credible. Meanwhile, seven independent credible black witnesses gave testimony supporting Officer Wilson.

The fact is that Brown was a violent criminal. The fact is that all agreed he fought with the police. The autopsy proved that Brown's initial gunshot wound was at close range, which combined with the testimony from several witnesses, was enough to establish that Brown tried grabbing Officer Wilson's gun.

This violent scumbag is the very last person who should be considered a martyr. Racism, people only supporting him because of the color of his skin, is the only reason he has any support.

He fought with the officer, but to what degree? You don't know. What we do know is that the DA sold the case and didn't perform his job. We know for a fact that Officer Wilson lied while on the stand. We know for a fact that the police made a multitude of mistakes.

Brown isn't a martyr. He's not even a good kid. However, why should the police be allowed to arbitrarily dish out justice?

I think you fail to grasp the very nature of the issue. A police officer was able to gun down a person and instead of allowing procedure to play out, police closed ranks, skirted due process, ignored protocol and had a very friendly District Attorney assist them.

Posted on: 2014/11/26 20:25
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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Wishful_Thinking wrote:
I can't help but think the meme thats been getting a lot of press in business circles - "culture eats strategy for breakfast". Except that in America, today, as lived in by diverse citizens, it's "narrative eats strategy for breakfast". And lunch. And high tea and dinner, as well.

Each community affected has such a different narrative about what happened in Ferguson, the state of race relations, who is to be valued and why, etc., that common ground will be very hard to find. One thing I, as a progressive/liberal/whatever person, can honestly say I regret is how narrative paradigm has replaced a rational world paradigm for solving social problems.

That said, I'm game to be part of the solution. What is happening here in JC to move past the status-quo?


There is nothing you can do in JC. In order to move past the status quo, people will somehow have to rebel against the race-baiting media, which instigated this from the start with their continued lies and inflammatory articles. Such as:

Brown was executed in the street
Brown was shot in the back
Extensive and unquestioning coverage of the "star witness" Dorian Johnson's tell all interview which was full of lies.
Brown was a good boy about to attend college

Not to mention saying that Wilson was white and Brown an "unarmed black teen" every chance they could.

The current race riots are CNN's Super Bowl. They had record ratings. If you want to be part of the solution, figure out a way to combat the media. Damned if I know.

Posted on: 2014/11/26 20:06
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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Pebble wrote:

I never blamed Wilson for the reports about the fractured eye, just as I don’t blame Brown for the initial reports that his hands were up or the statements saying “don’t shoot.” From all the accounts of the grand jury, those testimonies were not used.


They were "used" and found to be not credible.

It was revealed that several witnesses testified before the grand jury that Brown put his arms up to surrender. However none of these witnesses said this to police when they were first interviewed. These witnesses then admitted to the grand jury that many of them were actually not present for the shooting and simply repeated what others heard or what they assumed happened.

In other words, they admitted lying. Other witnesses lied by saying Brown was shot in the back. This is why, objectively, these witnesses were not credible. Meanwhile, seven independent credible black witnesses gave testimony supporting Officer Wilson.

The fact is that Brown was a violent criminal. The fact is that all agreed he fought with the police. The autopsy proved that Brown's initial gunshot wound was at close range, which combined with the testimony from several witnesses, was enough to establish that Brown tried grabbing Officer Wilson's gun.

This violent scumbag is the very last person who should be considered a martyr. Racism, people only supporting him because of the color of his skin, is the only reason he has any support.

Posted on: 2014/11/26 20:01
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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BLACK LIVES MATTER...

THUGS LIKE BROWN DO NOT!!! HE'S A LOW LIFE!!!

Posted on: 2014/11/26 18:40
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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I can't help but think the meme thats been getting a lot of press in business circles - "culture eats strategy for breakfast". Except that in America, today, as lived in by diverse citizens, it's "narrative eats strategy for breakfast". And lunch. And high tea and dinner, as well.

Each community affected has such a different narrative about what happened in Ferguson, the state of race relations, who is to be valued and why, etc., that common ground will be very hard to find. One thing I, as a progressive/liberal/whatever person, can honestly say I regret is how narrative paradigm has replaced a rational world paradigm for solving social problems.

That said, I'm game to be part of the solution. What is happening here in JC to move past the status-quo?

Posted on: 2014/11/26 18:33
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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Monroe wrote:
You can't blame Wilson for reports that falsely claimed he had a fractured orbit, nor the initial confusion about whether he knew of the robbery and assault at the convenience store when spotting Brown walking in the middle of the road.

But virtually all the credible witnesses disproved several of the initial incendiary untruths, chief among them that Brown was shot in the back (the three autopsies, including the one commissioned by his family, disproved that) or that he had his hands in the air and was yelling 'don't shoot'. In fact, the strongest witness was a black man who stated he heard Officer Wilson shouting 'stop' several times while Brown was advancing on him.

Finally, when the heretofore closeted information of Brown's previous criminal history (shielded because he was under 18 and a minor) we'll know more about his background and character. I won't link to any of the news reports, as they're not official yet, but two felony accusations and a weapons offense are said to be among his past.

And yes, his death was a tragedy for him, his family, Officer Wilson and his family, and the innocents of Ferguson-including those who've lost their life savings in the lootings.

But if you have to apportion blame on this, put it on Brown.

I never blamed Wilson for the reports about the fractured eye, just as I don’t blame Brown for the initial reports that his hands were up or the statements saying “don’t shoot.” From all the accounts of the grand jury, those testimonies were not used.

As for your claim of which witness is credible and which witness is not, we know for a fact that Wilson either misremembered or outright lied about the events of that day during the grand jury testimony. Does that mean his entire testimony should be tossed out?

If you read what I wrote, I have stated outright that Brown is culpable. That does not mean that I will remove blame from Wilson. There is far too much wrong with his statements, including his comments about not carrying a taser, to be blind about where he escalated the issue.

Posted on: 2014/11/26 18:23
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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jcguy05 wrote:
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Pebble wrote:

Mike Brown committed a crime and much of his subsequent actions are in the category of antisocial as well as criminal. At the same time, Officer Wilson demonstrated some poor decisions that assisted in the escalation of the situation to the point where a kid ended up dead. There is nothing positive in this situation. It is only sad.


what do you mean? the cop saw a dude walking in the middle of the street matching the description of a suspect who robbed the store. He pulls up to arrest him, the guy tells him to f*** off and he's too much a p***** to make the arrest. Cop draws the gun and warns to stand down or he will fire, the guy grabs the top of the barrel trying to wrestle the gun away. Cop eventually shots him after 2 failed attempt to fire, then radios backup for shots fired.

Everything is by the book, i see absolutely nothing wrong with what the cop did.


What you wrote there does not align with what was presented by Officer Wilson or by the District Attorney to the grand jury.
Washington Post: The Conflicting Reports

There is no evidence to back up the statement that Brown tried to wrestle the gun away from the officer. Police officers on the scene allowed Wilson to hold onto the gun because they stated that Wilson had control of the weapon the entire time. Wilson testified at the grand jury that he did not have control of the gun. The gun, was never tested to see if Brown's fingerprints were on it. Had Brown lunged for the gun, those fingerprints could have proven or dis-proven the story presented by Wilson.

In total, I think you need to read a bit more if you believe that what you wrote is actually what occurred.

Posted on: 2014/11/26 18:14
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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You can't blame Wilson for reports that falsely claimed he had a fractured orbit, nor the initial confusion about whether he knew of the robbery and assault at the convenience store when spotting Brown walking in the middle of the road.

But virtually all the credible witnesses disproved several of the initial incendiary untruths, chief among them that Brown was shot in the back (the three autopsies, including the one commissioned by his family, disproved that) or that he had his hands in the air and was yelling 'don't shoot'. In fact, the strongest witness was a black man who stated he heard Officer Wilson shouting 'stop' several times while Brown was advancing on him.

Finally, when the heretofore closeted information of Brown's previous criminal history (shielded because he was under 18 and a minor) we'll know more about his background and character. I won't link to any of the news reports, as they're not official yet, but two felony accusations and a weapons offense are said to be among his past.

And yes, his death was a tragedy for him, his family, Officer Wilson and his family, and the innocents of Ferguson-including those who've lost their life savings in the lootings.

But if you have to apportion blame on this, put it on Brown.

Posted on: 2014/11/26 18:09
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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Pebble wrote:

Mike Brown committed a crime and much of his subsequent actions are in the category of antisocial as well as criminal. At the same time, Officer Wilson demonstrated some poor decisions that assisted in the escalation of the situation to the point where a kid ended up dead. There is nothing positive in this situation. It is only sad.


what do you mean? the cop saw a dude walking in the middle of the street matching the description of a suspect who robbed the store. He pulls up to arrest him, the guy tells him to f*** off and he's too much a p***** to make the arrest. Cop draws the gun and warns to stand down or he will fire, the guy grabs the top of the barrel trying to wrestle the gun away. Cop eventually shots him after 2 failed attempt to fire, then radios backup for shots fired.

Everything is by the book, i see absolutely nothing wrong with what the cop did.


Posted on: 2014/11/26 18:08
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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JCMan8 wrote:
All of the evidence proved that the 6'4" 300 pound Mike Brown robbed the store, attacked the cop, and tried to take his gun. Behavior that does warrant the use of lethal self-defense.

This is not remotely accurate. "All of the evidence" does not prove this. Several witnesses disagree with this. The lack of fingerprints, which were never tested for, does not back up the statement that Brown tried to take the gun. The fact that the service piece was not removed from Wilson immediately because "the weapon was never out of control of Wilson" counters this argument. The fact that Wilson stated after the encounter that he didn't need to go to the hospital (where was the broken eye socket?) counters the argument that Wilson later made claiming that his life was in danger and that he'd die from a single punch from Brown.

I don't think anyone can state outright what occurred on that day. But to claim that "all of the evidence" proved Wilson was justified belies any actual facts.

Posted on: 2014/11/26 17:54
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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It's always interesting that when I point out about people looting and destroying the various small businesses in Ferguson (some of them African American-owned), which had NOTHING to do with the death of Michael Brown or the grand jury decision, the Michael Brown supporters (which there have been on this thread) have NOTHING to say about it.

There is so much wrong with this statement that I'm almost unsure of where to actually begin.

1. Nobody finds the looting to be a justified response to the grand jury's decision to not indict.

2. It is completely accurate to point out that there are serious flaws in the grand jury result and how it came about. The reality is that if the prosecutor wanted an indictment, he'd get one. Instead, he chose to protect the police officer.

I realize that this has become a right-wing echo chamber in regards to this case, but the fact that Wilson's testimony is contradicted by several of his actions and prior statements is something that should have been challenged with a trial. The fact that the police bungled this, intentionally or not, from the very beginning should give everyone pause.

Mike Brown committed a crime and much of his subsequent actions are in the category of antisocial as well as criminal. At the same time, Officer Wilson demonstrated some poor decisions that assisted in the escalation of the situation to the point where a kid ended up dead. There is nothing positive in this situation. It is only sad.

Posted on: 2014/11/26 17:49
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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And now another young black man was found dead in a car from a random bullet.

Way to go, protestors! Maybe Brown's step father in law who called for rioting can get indicted for that death?

Posted on: 2014/11/26 17:47
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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It's always interesting that when I point out about people looting and destroying the various small businesses in Ferguson (some of them African American-owned), which had NOTHING to do with the death of Michael Brown or the grand jury decision, the Michael Brown supporters (which there have been on this thread) have NOTHING to say about it.

Posted on: 2014/11/26 17:38
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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Plus, he had enough drugs in his system to be legally 'impaired'. For some, THC is a stimulant. When he assaulted the Yemeni shopkeeper he didn't look like he was grabbing some Pringles because he had the munchies.

Posted on: 2014/11/26 15:41
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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user1111 wrote:
She said a mouth full...


https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205247342493103


He attacked the cop, reach for the weapon too!!! Has this women heard of adrenaline rush?!

Posted on: 2014/11/26 15:20
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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Many of the businesses that were damaged, looted or destroyed last night were owned by African Americans. Does that serve as justice for the people angry with the grand jury decision?

NONE of the businesses damaged, looted or destroyed had ANYTHING to do with the grand jury decision. The Ferguson police had nothing to do with the decision either. The grand jury, selected from the community, made the decision.

Now there are many businesses in Ferguson which are closed forever. Some are mom & pop, African American owned. We're not just talking about Walmart here. Ferguson will just turn into a wasteland where no person in their right mind would open up a retail business and there will be no place to buy things like groceries and other basic needs.

But hey, damaging, looting and destroying businesses made people feel better for one night.


Better about what? That the lynch mob didn't get to hang Officer Wilson?

All of the evidence proved that the 6'4" 300 pound Mike Brown robbed the store, attacked the cop, and tried to take his gun. Behavior that does warrant the use of lethal self-defense.

Especially since if he were white, no one would care. Funny how no one is asking the question of why did Mike Brown think he could do all this to begin with? Funny how the looting and rioting began immediately after the shooting (check the other locked thread), yet no one condemned the protestors for pre-judging the situation.

At the end of the day, this incident shows how racism is alive and well in this country, as all of the anger and protests are supporting a violent criminal solely on the color of his skin.

Posted on: 2014/11/26 14:29
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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Posted on: 2014/11/26 14:09
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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Many of the businesses that were damaged, looted or destroyed last night were owned by African Americans. Does that serve as justice for the people angry with the grand jury decision?

NONE of the businesses damaged, looted or destroyed had ANYTHING to do with the grand jury decision. The Ferguson police had nothing to do with the decision either. The grand jury, selected from the community, made the decision.

Now there are many businesses in Ferguson which are closed forever. Some are mom & pop, African American owned. We're not just talking about Walmart here. Ferguson will just turn into a wasteland where no person in their right mind would open up a retail business and there will be no place to buy things like groceries and other basic needs.

But hey, damaging, looting and destroying businesses made people feel better for one night.

Posted on: 2014/11/26 14:07
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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Posted on: 2014/11/26 13:36
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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Raw footage - while the city burns, a Papa John's manager defends her store from looters:

http://youtu.be/ZDLpiEWlFZ0

Posted on: 2014/11/26 1:41
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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Bunch of thugs, the only one those parents should be angry with is themselves.

http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.htm ... tp%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

Posted on: 2014/11/26 1:38
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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Let's not forget who is responsible for much of this mess:

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Posted on: 2014/11/26 0:00
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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neverleft wrote:
“Michael Brown's stepfather consoled the dead teen's distraught mother after Monday's controversial grand jury announcement and then turned to the crowd of demonstrators, saying, "Burn this motherf---er down" and "Burn this bitch down," according to a New York Times video.”

Does anyone know if Brown’s stepfather was arrested for inciting a riot?


I'd guess not.

Privilege is being able to loot while talking heads apologize and make excuses for you.


I think the proper term is "white guilt". It something Jon Stewart etc all suffer from.

Posted on: 2014/11/25 22:54
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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“Michael Brown's stepfather consoled the dead teen's distraught mother after Monday's controversial grand jury announcement and then turned to the crowd of demonstrators, saying, "Burn this motherf---er down" and "Burn this bitch down," according to a New York Times video.”

Does anyone know if Brown’s stepfather was arrested for inciting a riot?


I'd guess not.

Privilege is being able to loot while talking heads apologize and make excuses for you.

Posted on: 2014/11/25 22:37
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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“Michael Brown's stepfather consoled the dead teen's distraught mother after Monday's controversial grand jury announcement and then turned to the crowd of demonstrators, saying, "Burn this motherf---er down" and "Burn this bitch down," according to a New York Times video.”

Does anyone know if Brown’s stepfather was arrested for inciting a riot?

Posted on: 2014/11/25 22:14
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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So you say something equally as stupid, just in case we didn't get the message the first time.

Posted on: 2014/11/25 21:58
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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jerseymom wrote:
Small group rallies in Jersey City for justice in Ferguson, Mo. - Jersey Journal

A rally for justice, spurred on by the events in Ferguson, Mo., was overshadowed by the promise of free turkeys this afternoon on Martin Luther King Drive in Jersey City.

The North Jersey chapter of the National Action Network held a rally to protest the grand jury’s decision not to indict Police Officer Darren Wilson in the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown. Less than 10 people participated in the rally, but they made sure that the hundreds of people lined up for free Thanksgiving meals across the street heard their message.

“We’re standing for people who can’t stand for themselves,” said Kenyaetta Williams, 45, of Jersey City.

“I expected it,” Williams said of the grand jury’s decision. “But I also expected more people out here today,” she said. “All the turkeys are giving out turkeys,” she said.

Jersey Journal - Story & Photos


“All the turkeys are giving out turkeys,”

Nice thing to say about people who are volunteering their time to help the needy, just happened to be police officers and who had NOTHING to do with the events in Ferguson. Would she rather that people don't eat on Thanksgiving?


I wonder if she had a protest for the senseless killing of that cop this past summer.


What an idiotic thing to say.


Wish people like you paid more attention to the murder of Darren Talington instead of this scum. Look in the mirror before you call people idiots son.

Posted on: 2014/11/25 21:54
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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caj11 wrote:
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jerseymom wrote:
Small group rallies in Jersey City for justice in Ferguson, Mo. - Jersey Journal

A rally for justice, spurred on by the events in Ferguson, Mo., was overshadowed by the promise of free turkeys this afternoon on Martin Luther King Drive in Jersey City.

The North Jersey chapter of the National Action Network held a rally to protest the grand jury’s decision not to indict Police Officer Darren Wilson in the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown. Less than 10 people participated in the rally, but they made sure that the hundreds of people lined up for free Thanksgiving meals across the street heard their message.

“We’re standing for people who can’t stand for themselves,” said Kenyaetta Williams, 45, of Jersey City.

“I expected it,” Williams said of the grand jury’s decision. “But I also expected more people out here today,” she said. “All the turkeys are giving out turkeys,” she said.

Jersey Journal - Story & Photos


“All the turkeys are giving out turkeys,”

Nice thing to say about people who are volunteering their time to help the needy, just happened to be police officers and who had NOTHING to do with the events in Ferguson. Would she rather that people don't eat on Thanksgiving?


I wonder if she had a protest for the senseless killing of that cop this past summer.


What an idiotic thing to say.


Pot calling the kettle bl....oh just forget it. That's too easy.

Posted on: 2014/11/25 21:44
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
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jerseymom wrote:
Small group rallies in Jersey City for justice in Ferguson, Mo. - Jersey Journal

A rally for justice, spurred on by the events in Ferguson, Mo., was overshadowed by the promise of free turkeys this afternoon on Martin Luther King Drive in Jersey City.

The North Jersey chapter of the National Action Network held a rally to protest the grand jury’s decision not to indict Police Officer Darren Wilson in the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown. Less than 10 people participated in the rally, but they made sure that the hundreds of people lined up for free Thanksgiving meals across the street heard their message.

“We’re standing for people who can’t stand for themselves,” said Kenyaetta Williams, 45, of Jersey City.

“I expected it,” Williams said of the grand jury’s decision. “But I also expected more people out here today,” she said. “All the turkeys are giving out turkeys,” she said.

Jersey Journal - Story & Photos


“All the turkeys are giving out turkeys,”

Nice thing to say about people who are volunteering their time to help the needy, just happened to be police officers and who had NOTHING to do with the events in Ferguson. Would she rather that people don't eat on Thanksgiving?


I wonder if she had a protest for the senseless killing of that cop this past summer.


What an idiotic thing to say.

Posted on: 2014/11/25 21:19
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Re: Jersey City prepares for decision on Ferguson indictment
#38
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MDM wrote:
This woman had her cake shop destroyed by the looters:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Natalie ... /274915157402?sk=timeline


[img width=300]http://i.imgur.com/tqZsdAr.jpg?1[/img]


Your picture didn't load. Here it is, a business owner who owned one of over 25 businesses destroyed last night.

Justice for Mike Brown!

Resized Image

Posted on: 2014/11/25 21:17
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