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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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stillinjc wrote: >>The trains that rumble from the Harlem River rail yard in the South Bronx are sealed tight, but there is no mistaking what lies inside them. The stench gives it away. The trains, some a mile long, are filled with garbage. The railcars are part of an armada that performs a nearly constant exodus of waste from the nation?s largest city.<< People who believe that the containers will keep the stench in are deluded.
Posted on: 2014/10/15 1:50
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Greenvillelifer wrote: Please re read the first paragraph.
Posted on: 2014/10/15 1:02
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Quite a regular
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Please re read the first paragraph.
Posted on: 2014/10/15 0:17
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Those aren't sealed containers in the link. Its an open truck bed with a tarp over it. The plan is to get rid of trucks like that and use sealed containers on barges and trains.
Posted on: 2014/10/14 23:40
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Do you really have such a hard time understanding what you read? Where does the release imply to you it's JC trash? It's perfectly clear that they are saying it's NYC trash that is currently being trucked through JC. There's probably a good argument somewhere against this plan, but not yet here. StillinJC's entire argument is based on the failure of the containers, for which he has nothing to go on but his "gut" feeling that sealed trash containers is an insurmountable engineering challenge. If every plan, product or project was subject to rejection because someone distrusted the engineering, and the testing of that engineering, we'd still be riding horses to the rowboat to cross the Hudson. But wait, what if the horse throws a shoe, or the rowboat springs a leak? Better to stay home, in the dark. Don't light a fire, because the chimney might leak. And hope it doesn't rain, because you can't trust a roof not to leak too. Damn technology!!
Posted on: 2014/10/14 23:31
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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we can assume the contracts have been signed, so lets put speculation aside, as we'll have to wait and see before we can all picker, complain or remain silent
Posted on: 2014/10/14 23:23
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Quite a regular
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Posted on: 2014/10/14 23:14
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Borgiano was right, these same trains came thru the Square and you could smell them for blocks and blocks, just awful stuff!!
Posted on: 2014/10/14 21:49
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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"The expansion of Greenville Yards will remove 800,000 tons of waste currently driven through Jersey City streets. It will instead be transported in sealed containers of barge-to-rail, never entering the Jersey City community, the city said in a press release."
This is not true and another great stretch from the Mayor. The trash is New York City trash, not Jersey City's. We are not putting our trash in sealed containers and sending it out by rail. That is not part on this deal. Our trash is still being trucked out of the city. When they say they are getting 800,000 tons off the street, they are referring to NY trash that is presently being trucked out of the city and may hit JC roads, althought that is highly unlikely. This was put on a fast track and none of these questions have been answered. We spend more time of a zoning variance than we did on this important issue!! I don't understand why more people in the Heights and Downtown are not standing with the residents of Greenville on this issue.
Posted on: 2014/10/14 21:48
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Could someone explain why you smell the chlorine and ammonia that are in sealed containers in grocery stories? The amount of cleaners in stores will not compare to the tons of garbage coming to JC.
Posted on: 2014/10/14 21:33
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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They are going to be filled in Manhattan and Brooklyn.. not in Jersey City.
Posted on: 2014/10/14 21:16
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Plenty of filth on the outside and access to the inside via bent rims/gaskets. Rodents have ways of getting through tight spaces.
Posted on: 2014/10/14 20:52
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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No doubt you will have spillage when filling the containers, thus a thorough cleaning of containers / barge / train before departure will be required ... or so we hope!
Posted on: 2014/10/14 20:31
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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If the containers are sealed why would the rats be around if the trash is not accessible to them?
Posted on: 2014/10/14 20:22
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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There are many posts here that overlook this point:
"The expansion of Greenville Yards will remove 800,000 tons of waste currently driven through Jersey City streets. It will instead be transported in sealed containers of barge-to-rail, never entering the Jersey City community, the city said in a press release." On a closed rail car, even if not hermetically sealed, has to be better than in an open garbage truck driven through our streets. The real stink is when open garbage is put into the barges -- and that happens at the transfer stations in NYC, including one on the Upper East Side.
Posted on: 2014/10/14 19:42
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Yes, I take it personally when someone puts words in my mouth. I wrote about stink, you wrote about environmental disasters. Two different things. BTW - let me bring up another potential problem. Rodent infestation on the container storage site. I am sure Tropicana will be thrilled about that. Rodent droppings in your morning glass of OJ, anybody?
Posted on: 2014/10/14 16:41
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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I would assume they head over the bridge to Newark, where the plant is located. You can follow the tracks via Google Earth or Google maps.
Posted on: 2014/10/14 12:16
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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You're taking this very personally. What words did I put in your mouth other than rephrasing your insistence that the sealed containers will fail? You have no actual evidence that they will, to counter the engineers who designed them not to and the engineers who conducted the CA study that says they don't. BTW there are exactly 4 buildings on Catherine Ct and Garfield that are about 60 ft away, everything else on the 0.4 mi of the close to residents part of the route is more than 100 ft. And yes, reporters write about environmental disasters all the time, except perhaps on Fox News etc. I read about the air in Bejing and the deadly mines in Latin America. It's not outlandish to think southern californians whose homes were inundated with garbage stink might make the news too.
Posted on: 2014/10/14 3:50
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Do we know the route these trains will take? There are some pretty smelly trains already that pass alongside the turnpike then up through the heights. Is it really just a Greenville issue?
Posted on: 2014/10/13 20:52
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Do you think NY would cause a fuss and complain if we hauled the same amount of garbage to a waste transfer station in Brooklyn or other port on their side of the Hudson ?
Whatever happen to the story about sealed train carriages ... now we have barges plus trains and I bet there will be a clause that if all fails, trucks can be used too! No doubt this is a sensitive issue for JC residents and the entire State of NJ. What was lacking from city hall is a transparent and fully documented release of the contract before signing - The publicist, PR and media spin guys at city hall did a lousy job selling it to us, thus creating such speculation and negative view on how Fulop is dealing with things.
Posted on: 2014/10/13 20:39
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Who writes about an environmental disaster? You love putting words in people's mouths, don't you? Doing exactly the same thing you accuse Yvonne of doing. Geez. Address my point, which is: even with the available data, if your house is 30 feet from the tracks, if the train is halted, there will be stink. There might be stink even if the train goes slowly in summer. That is the BEST available scenario. That is also based on DATA. The study specifically says that the nearest homes are 350 feet from the containers. In Jersey City it is more like 30 feet. Who is factual now?
Posted on: 2014/10/13 15:24
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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I point out ubiquitous successful engineering, and you insist on speculation that this simple engineering "might" fail with no data to back you up. At least mine is factual. That study is 6 years old. Was there an environmental disaster in LA when the inevitable failure you predict took place? Apparently not. And the study says the system has been in place in the Pacific Northwest for some time. This is not brand new technology. Even the successful test containers were not brand new, they are noticeably dented. And the DMV doesn't check anything anymore except emissions. Not even taillights.
Posted on: 2014/10/13 14:34
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Great comparison, Brewster. Really. You are a master of irrelevant comparisons. Until the trash hauler does a biennial inspection of their seals for gas retention on all their containers the way the DMV does on the gas tanks, your comparison is worth shit.
Posted on: 2014/10/13 14:22
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Excellent study, thanks, moobycow. It shows that the containers do retain the vast majority of odorous gases, but are not gas-tight, as I wrote. The troubling parts are: 1. The gaskets of the containers in real-life will be beat up and bent and the barrier to the escaping gasses will be ineffective 2. The study was done on two containers. I did not see an extrapolation (should be easy to do) of what happens if there are 50 or 100 containers stored on site or sit on a train. I don't want a best-case-scenario analysis, I want to know what happens if there are backups. Those never happen in Jersey, right? These are the types of questions the community that hosts the transfer site must be allowed to ask of panynj, Fulop and the trash hauling company. If there are homes 30 feet from the tracks and a train with 50 containers is halted, based on that data, there will probably be stink.
Posted on: 2014/10/13 14:03
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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I believe this garbage's ultimate dumping destination is upstate NY. It is not being dumped here, this is a transfer station.
Posted on: 2014/10/13 13:28
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Here is a California study on similar containers.
Potential for Odor and Gas Generation due to the Transport of Municipal Solid Waste in Sealed Containers http://www.lacsd.org/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=3941 Conclusion: Odor levels in the interior of the containers were in 1,500-44,000 D/T. Odor levels just outside of the container were typically in the 20-50 D/T range and generally indistinguishable from ambient air samples. Thus, the container seals are an effective odor control measure; ? The monitoring data confirmed that odors dissipate and are not detectable beyond 15 feet from the container;
Posted on: 2014/10/13 13:11
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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This appears to be a document that details the specification of these type containers:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dsny/download ... App/NShore360/vol1/04.pdf If these are the same type of containers they are designed to be watertight.
Posted on: 2014/10/13 13:04
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Soon to be a hit this winter !
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Posted on: 2014/10/13 6:05
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Re: New York waste transfer deal to bring $10 million to Jersey City
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Exactly. Could you imagine the fuss if someone proposed there be large containers of noxiously smelling, poisonous and incredibly flammable liquids placed all over our city? They're called automobile gas tanks, and they don't spontaneously leak and explode all the time, because they've been engineered not to.
Posted on: 2014/10/13 3:41
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