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In layman terms 'closed' could include a net or piece of pvc tarp simply placed over the top to prevent debris flying out during the commute and 'sealed' meaning nothing coming out; which includes odors or air !

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What is your evidence of this? We are not talking about standard global shipping containers. The released documents repeatedly calls them "sealed", not "closed". "Sealed" has a specific meaning in engineering speak. It's also possible the containers have a filtered pressure vent.

My point is that you and other people getting worked up don't actually know anything specific. Asking questions is great. Assuming you already know the answers and getting into a state, not so much. Reminds me of my 80 year old mother accidentally hitting the F11 key and calling me hysterical that her computer is broken and it must be a virus.

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For the containers not to stink (particularly in summer), they would have to be gas-tight. They are not gas-tight. Will they stink as bad as the tarp-covered dump trucks that transport solid municipal waste? Probably not, but if many of them are stacked waiting for the rail cars in the summer the cumulative effects of gas emissions could be quite suffocating. The temperatures in sealed steel containers in the summer easily exceed 100F if allowed to sit in the sun, raising gas pressures and allowing volatile components to escape. That should be a concern to the neighboring communities. Where are public consultations? Where are answers to these very valid questions?

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This is the assumed "fact" of all the arguments that, in fact, is not a fact. On what basis, other than in your experience garbage stinks, do you make the assumption that containers specifically designed to seal in the stink will in fact stink? It seems to me assumptions equating trash containers designed to seal in the smell and open manure lagoons or unremediated chemical factories are nothing more than speculation and hysteria.

I'm not saying engineering never fails. But we're surrounded daily in our homes, work and public by engineering that works so stupendously well that you never think about it, and the exceptions get a lot of attention. To base the entire argument on an assumption that some relatively simple engineering (we're not talking about the Space Shuttle) will fail, seems quite a leap. Anyone driving their car risks their life on technology far more complex than an oversized tupperware.

Thank you for the photos. The Church Steeple is St. Paul the Apostle's. The building is the senior citizens building on Ocean Ave. If you look down at the trees, you can see individual houses. There are houses within feet of the rail road tracks.

Catherine Court, Garfield Ave, Merritt Street, Blvd, etc....

Some more info on the facilities on the NYC side:

http://www.burns-group.com/focus/proj ... arine-transfer-facilities


Link to PA Press release from 4 years ago about the project:
http://www.panynj.gov/press-room/press-item.cfm?headLine_id=1281

More info with photos (scroll about 1/3 down the page for Greenville. Top portion deals with Brooklyn):
http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/nynjr.html

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Tell it to the Greenville folks whose homes are within feet from the rail line.

Seems like they are getting fuckedd.


The containers will stink when stacked in the summer. Tropicana may get out. You really don'twant that association with a beverage, if you're Tropicana.

Looks like we have another emergency situation here. This calls for?.

?Will be most ambitious park plan in Jersey City?
$10 million plan to move NYC?s garbage will fund reservoir project

by Al Sullivan
Reporter staff writer
Oct 12, 2014

After years of struggling to convert the old reservoir in Jersey City Heights into a park, Mayor Steven Fulop says a $10 million deal to help transfer New York City?s trash will provide nearly all the money needed for the project.

But residents of the Greenville section of Jersey City who spoke at the Oct. 8 City Council meeting said the mayor is pushing the project through without a proper review, with nearly all of the benefits to the northern part of the city rather than Greenville, which will be most impacted by the transfer deal.

Fulop, in a rare presentation before the City Council caucus meeting on Oct. 6, said that a one-time fee of $10 million will be paid to Jersey City that will allow New York City trash to be brought (by barge) to Greenville rail yards, owned by The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, for transport elsewhere. The trash will not even touch Jersey City, he said, but will arrive in sealed containers and will be put onto rail cars to be shipped out.

Besides the $10 million, Jersey City will also receive 25 cents for every ton in excess of 800,000 per year for an estimated $250,000 annually.

The cost of restoring Reservoir 3 is estimated at about $11 million, Fulop said.

?We believe we can make up the difference through grants such as from the Hudson County Open Space Trust Fund,? Fulop told the council.

Reservoir upgrades for recreation

The renovations to Reservoir 3 will include perimeter running and walking tracks and pathways, preservation of existing historic structures, new lighting, new park amenities such as a floating walkway across parts of the water, a kayak launch, beach area with water access, as well as nature and wildlife habit areas.

Because the site contains wetlands, the city will have to seek state and federal permits, a process that should be completed by early next year, clearing the way for bids to go out for work mid-to-late 2015, Fulop said.

?This will be the most ambitious park plan in Jersey City with passive and active recreation, nature and wildlife trails, kayaking, and more,? Fulop said. ?The reservoir is one of our city?s most valuable assets and we are committed to seeing it completed and designed as such. This is a great opportunity to develop this unique urban park without utilizing taxpayer funds.?

JC gets its due

New York City under the previous mayor, Michael Bloomberg, contracted with IESI Corporation for the removal of trash. The Port Authority would work with the New York City Department of Sanitation for the expansion of their industrial property at Greenville Yards.

?We were determined that Jersey City would not simply be a pass-through for this operation, but rather that Jersey City would receive the host community fees it deserves,? Fulop said. ?We advocated for this $10 million payment for the reservoir, and for what we believe are fair host transfer fees for this type of facility.?

The transfer fee was one of the items that was a sticking point in negotiations because the trash never actually lands in Jersey City. Fulop said the location is a remote industrial area south of Liberty State Park, away from residential property.

Unanswered questions

Martha Larkins, a member of the South Greenville Neighborhood Association, said Fulop is rushing the proposal through the council without getting input of the community most affected by the project.

?I understand the mayor wants a trophy park in the Heights,? Larkins said. ?But we need the money in Greenville. Our part of the city is hurting.?

She said she believed this was being rushed through to get a memorandum of understanding completed, but that there were serious questions that remain unanswered about the site, such as whether there is a disaster plan or environmental impact statement. She asked to see specifications on the rail cars to show they really are airtight. She pointed out that there is only one rail line out of that area and that it is being used by a number of companies such as Tropicana. She questioned what happens to the trash if there is a rail backup.

Councilman Richard Boggiano, who voted against the resolution, said this was a similar deal to one that was defeated in 1999, and predicted that company freight will take precedence over trash cars.

?In summer, there will be a stink,? he said, predicting that the containers will be stacked up waiting until the line is free.

Mia Scanga said she called Tropicana, which protested the 1999 proposal, and learned that the city had not notified the company of the plan.

Larkins and others asked the council to delay passing the resolution until some questions can be answered and Councilman Frank Gajewski ? who represents the Greenville section and was absent from the meeting ? could look into the matter as well.

Approved anyway

A divided City Council voted to approve the project, with Councilmen Boggiano and Michael Yun voting against it, and Councilwoman Joyce Watterman abstaining.

While Yun said he liked the restoration of the park that borders the ward he represents, he also wants questions answered.

The council will get additional opportunities to explore some of the questions since the project may not be able to move ahead without additional approvals. But city administrators were somewhat vague on whether or not the Port Authority could start operations based on the Oct. 8 vote. They were also uncertain as to whether trash transfer operations already existed on the site, since the city has no way to monitor what is done on Port Authority property.

Removing waste

The agreement, voted on by the City Council on Oct. 8, will also allow IESI NY Corporation to commence a containerized municipal solid waste operation through Greenville Yards for a period of 30 years.

Additionally, the expansion of Greenville Yards will remove 800,000 tons of waste currently driven through Jersey City streets to instead be transported in sealed containers on barges to rail, never entering the Jersey City community.

?We are very pleased to partner with Mayor Fulop and Jersey City on this opportunity,? said IESI NY Corporation spokesperson Chaya Cooperberg. ?This operation will contribute to the community?s environmental sustainability and provide funds to support the city?s capital needs.?

Pershing Field upgrade on the way

Councilman Michael Yun said he was thrilled with the project, but asked about the 25 cent fee, wondering if it could be negotiated higher.

Fulop said the fee is in line with what other communities are receiving.

Councilman Richard Boggiano, however, asked the mayor about long-awaited improvements to nearby Pershing Field. Fulop said that work is included in a $36.5 million bond that the City Council will consider in November.

The bond would cover the reconstruction, renovation, rehabilitation and improvement of city public parks and fields, playgrounds; public buildings and facilities; road work and traffic related equipment, purchase of vehicles, and other purposes.


http://hudsonreporter.com/bookmark/25 ... ervoir-project-font-i-br-

There are some great articles on how to use humor to deflect and defuse a conversation that hits a raw nerve.

Here are 5 other ways to (subtly) change a conversation:

http://www.realsimple.com/work-life/w ... /topic-conversation/page2

Something for politician publicist's !

http://www.vocus.com/blog/zappos-vs-k ... and-criticism-with-humor/

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this is old news. i have been peeing in the shower for ages. shower water cleans the drain. i also pee in the kitchen or bathroom sink depending on whether i need to do dishes or brush teeth

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Thank you for the laugh though I am more than certain there will be those who not only don't get it but will force their own view on the matter

As this discussion runs the risk of turning into a pissing contest and in light of the previous threads on our sewer overload, this new refreshing idea hopefully will be of some use:

https://news.yahoo.com/science-save-ea ... ing-shower-190635500.html

At least we can surmise that all politicians are full of siht and only look after the needs of the people that vote for them after feathering their own nest and those of their immediate stakeholders and political allies

He is even looking a bit punch drunk and overweight - Not as 'crisp' as when he started out and could morph into a Healy lookalike - even the combover is starting to happen!

PS - Fulop, look after your health and get involved with who you employ. You need to take control and be as proactive as you were when in 'opposition' to Healy.

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Your point? What you offered was very old history that any old timer knew. Ben McKay lived up the street on Secaucus Rd., were you familiar with the Pig Palace? I hung out with the Pyskaty & the Supel families (I still see Evelyn Supel but haven't seen Joyce Pyskaty in years). I didn't ask for a history lesson, I offered another point of view.

And here is some more history: http://www.hudsonreporter.com/pages/f ... AUCUS+HISTORY-+-05-10-09-
They could have had all the pigs they wanted but like I said, I was a member of the Hudson County Trail Riders in 1964 & I shure as heck don't recall any pigs.

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I can't take the credit for this, I saw it today on FB and thought I share it. I don't believe that this would be a huge problem for GV since its nowhere near any sort of neighborhood. But the deal does suck!

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WHAT IS THE REASON YVONNE? Unless you quote, no one know WTF you're even trying to say!!

No. One. Said. You. Didn't. Fucking. Smell. Pigs.


User1111: that graphic is not just inflammatory, it's factually wrong. There is to be no open garbage. I'm sure you know that, and I know that, but people out there with Yvonne's poor reading comprehension who can only understand pictures might be misled.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net ... b72cf0588d1c13575c4fbe5fa

Anyway...

This is the reason Brewster, (and I will not use the quote buttom, unless I want to) why long term people who live here refer to new people as yuppies. Don't lecture about my experiences in Hudson County or Jersey City. I also married a man who family goes back to the 1880s. Either, I have personally experience things such as the odor on Central Avenue due to the pigs farms or family members have saved newspapers articles on incidents going back to 1901, when a tornado uprooted trees in Van Vorst Park. Other family members keep journals and wrote about life in Jersey City. The late J. Owen Grundy, Jersey City historian was a guest in my home and he filled in the gaps on some events.

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Teacher Yvonne, please learn to use the QUOTE button, otherwise no one knows what you're talking about....in addition to not knowing what you're talking about the rest of the time. But in this case you would be showing who you thought was saying you were wrong. Wasn't me, nor did I read anyone else do so. If someone did, then quote them. You often respond to a thread like everyone knows just who you're responding to. They don't, that's why the QUOTE button is there!

But wait, did I understand you to say that JC is better now with yuppies and less parking than in the good old days?!!!!!!

Well, Heights Brat, here is a nice history lesson. I love the beginning...Once upon a time Secaucus had more pigs than humans. By the way, Henry Krajewski, a pig farmer was also a perennial president candidate. Henry St. is named after him Secaucus. http://www.slideshare.net/thomasandrewsgsl/secaucus-pig-farms

At this point based on the discussion below, the main concern other than whether the down-payment and forward fees are adequate relates to potential environmental exposure. The containers better be fully sealed otherwise the Port Authority will have another big lawsuit on hand this time related to hydrogen sulfide population exposure.

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I was a member of the Hudson County Trail Riders back in 1964. We were located on Penhorn Ave., I don't recall any pig farms in Secaucus at the time but there was Miller's Abattoir & a fat rendering facility not far from where we stabled our horses. Maybe this is the smell recalled. As far as that stench reaching Central Ave., sorry, I can't say that I recall it permeating the pristine air of the Heights very often. That being said, I pitied the people of Hoboken living next to the smelly Hudson River.

Anyone who tells me I am wrong is also telling me they or their families were not around. What I said is true, not only did the Central Avenue had the pig farm smell, the west side of the city had to deal with the horrible odor of the PJP landfill, and downtown had some chemical companies that produced noxious fumes. Some people remember the Colgate smell, but the worse air was the chemical companies. Don't try to lecture me, I lived through that time period.

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Maybe so, but there's something to be said for a shovel ready plan. Too often things simply never happen because there were too many undone preliminaries and the money disappears. That happened to HP for ages. This Reservoir plan has sat around unfunded for what, a decade? There's the new park on Garfield being built, other parks around town have been renovated while this plan to create something unique has waited.

If this were directed Downtown, I'd be in agreement with you. But at some point we're a city, not just a collection of hoods looking out for themselves. Our entire city is 1/10 the population of Brooklyn, we would be just one neighborhood of NYC, and this argument would seem silly and just too parochial.

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You missed Brewster's point. The prevailing wind is West to East... therefor stuff get blown from JC to NY... not the other way around.

The garbage doesn't get land filled as in what was done in the Meadowlands for years. It gets turned into fuel after separators take out the non-ferrous metals (magnets take the iron out of the ash) to be recycled. The rest is used to make steam and generate about 65 megawatts of power. The trash is reduced in volume by about 90%.

I feel for Greenville, they have been hit hard over the last 25 years, now they get hit with this. At least they should get the 10 million for their parks and the 250,000 a year toward their parks as well. Why send it to the heights! oh, I know, so the future Gov can point to the reservoir park and say, look what I have done in the short time I have been mayor!! I've unstuck the reservoir park and made it happen!!

Brewster, here is a video on pig farming - it does smell. Besides the garbage waste, JC is being attack from noise pollution from helicopters, we are not NYC's dumping ground. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LNlyOH7dIY

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Here's a meteorology lesson for you, the winds here usually blow west to east, thus bringing Secaucus to the Heights, but also from the Greenville yards to Brooklyn, not back to JC.

http://windhistory.com/station.html?KEWR

But for all your hysteria, you have presented no data at all that these containers will smell. You know what smells for sure, the f&*king broken sewers all over this town! Imagine trying to sell a house next to one? Where's your jihad about that? Just once I'd like to see you be FOR something to change, like repairing the sewer system, and not against ALL change.

Can I be the only one who has seen the usual suspects screaming about the sky is falling every time something is proposed, and it never happens? The Home Depot was hysterically opposed because they feared it would bring a traffic apocalypse to Hamilton Park. Nope. How many times do they get to be wrong before they STFU?

he was absent because he has no backbone, he's a coward!! Greenville gets the trash and btw no real jobs to speak of, a handful at best and the Heights get the cash. How do you explain that Frank. Iron Mike would have went to the meeting and said NO!! That's leadership, go knock on Mike's door and ask him to teach you about leadership!