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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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Do you have something against Trayvon and the outcome of his demise?
Posted on: 2014/3/18 11:17
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Get on your bikes and ride !
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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Newbie
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![]() Produced by NJCU?s Division of University Advancement
Posted on: 2014/3/17 22:17
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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So how much is Mr. Crump being paid to speak at this event (whether it was private or public money for him and his travel expenses, I don't care, my point is the same), and because this is a somewhat high profile event, are Jersey City taxpayers on the hook for police overtime to provide the necessary added security at the event?
Posted on: 2014/3/17 21:13
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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Newbie
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bump
Posted on: 2014/3/17 20:58
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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Cut N Paste from Florida's civil code: [emphasis mine] 776.032?Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.? (1)?A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term ?criminal prosecution? includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant. (2)?A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful. (3)?The court shall award reasonable attorney?s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1). History.?s. 4, ch. 2005-27.
Posted on: 2014/3/17 18:06
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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Well then Mr. Crump needs to either get his money back from whatever law school he attended or take a continuing legal education course on civil law in Florida, because that's what he's doing. Whether Zimmerman can be sued or not, any civil lawsuit against is just ludicrous.
Posted on: 2014/3/17 18:01
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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But what I want to get back to here is that Mr. Crump is not going to get any money by suing Zimmerman. The guy is broke from paying all his lawyers and I think Mr. Crump knows that (not to mention he already settled with the HOA for $1 million). At best, Zimmerman may have to turn over the keys to his car if found liable. Zimmerman cannot be sued under Florida law as he was cleared of any criminal wrongdoing.
Posted on: 2014/3/17 17:53
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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VanVorster, you seem like a rational person and I don't think I disagree with you to the same extent that others in this forum do, but I think the whole "white vs. black" issue has been blown out of proportion in so many ways with this case. Regarding point #1, sure Hispanics can act as racist as anyone else, but you're really getting into some heavy speculation as to whether light-skinned Hispanics are "higher on the totem pole" than dark-skinned Hispanics. I've never seen any proof of that, and everybody knew from the getgo that Zimmerman was Hispanic. Did Zimmerman have a better life than the average Hispanic because he was light-skinned? I really don't think there was any way to definitively say whether he did or not. I think it can be said that his being Hispanic put him at an overall disadvantage in life than the general population, but to suggest that the system went so easy on him because he passed for a white person and Trayvon was black, and that light-skinned Hispanics have an easier life than African-Americans is very dangerous speculation. It is also highly speculative as to whether the results in court would have been any different had the races been reversed. Possibly, but can we say with the same level of certainty if it had been Trayvon Martin shooting a non-Hispanic Caucasian? I doubt it. No disagreement with #2... the suppressing of Zimmerman's records may have had a much bigger impact on this case than anyone's race. No disagreement with #3 as well... some people will be racist toward others no matter what clothes they wear. I agree with #4 and hopefully I am being constructive about this. But what I want to get back to here is that Mr. Crump is not going to get any money by suing Zimmerman. The guy is broke from paying all his lawyers and I think Mr. Crump knows that (not to mention he already settled with the HOA for $1 million). At best, Zimmerman may have to turn over the keys to his car if found liable. Make Zimmerman "penniless"? Too late, he already pretty much is. Florida law prevents lawsuits from taking away peoples' homes, if Zimmerman actually owns one with any equity in it (that part of the country really suffered from the real estate bubble). What needs to be recognzied is the fact that Mr. Crump is just doing the civil lawsuit for the publicity and is trying to become like Ron Kuby, so he can get a book deal and collect speaking fees (whether he's being paid for this engagement, I don't know as it is free to attend but NJCU may be paying him). He is not a civil crusader, just another sleazebag attorney looking for fame. I hold Johnny Cochran in higher regard than this guy. After the O.J. Simpson case, Johnny Cochran did have a few interviews and TV appearances, but he pretty much continued to just be an attorney, not a motivational speaker.
Posted on: 2014/3/17 17:49
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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Serious question - do you have a financial or other personal interest in this? You push it with extremely biased links that makes me think that you have a greater stake (beyond casual) in this than the other participants in this conversation.
Posted on: 2014/3/17 17:14
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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![]() The Lee Hagan Africana Studies Center proudly presents: EMANCIPATION 2.0: STILL FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE March 17, 7:00-9:00 p.m. Michael B. Gilligan Student Union Building Multipurpose Room B 2039 Kennedy Boulevard Jersey City, NJ 07305-1597 http://www.njcu.edu/Maps_and_Directions.aspx http://www.njcu.edu/Campus_Parking.aspx Program: Introduction Lecture by Benjamin Crump, Esq Q&A
Posted on: 2014/3/17 17:06
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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If you are all as educated as you profess to be, I think you can do a better job at staying on topic, being constructive and insightful on your posts and not being incendiary (Tenet #5 on Message Forum), derailing the conversation on making it a referendum on affirmative action, not making it personally about (I'm white and I was once mugged so know how Zimmerman must have felt that night) and to really open and challenge your minds (e.g., I personally don't see any racism or how this is a race issue, so therefore can't be a factor) Query who made you the sole arbiter to determine?
1. For those who say "well no one is mentioning that Zimmerman is latino or Hispanic, not white" Since when are Hispanics/Latinos impervious to racism. Latin America was colonized under the aegis of white supremacy as well. Go to Panama, Brazil, Peru, Mexico, Ecuador, Cuba, etc. The white skinned Hispanics are on the higher end of the totem pole and the darker skinned Hispanics at the bottom. Even Peru where Zimmerman's mother is from has an informal policy that only blacks serve as pallbearers at funerals. And in the story about her, she's professed that it's important for families to marry white for betterment and looks down on blacks. So why is it illogical that Zimmerman, his brother George, couldn't conceivably be racist or dislike black people from being imbued with attitudes from their parents? I also think you have a narrow definition of racist behavior. For you from what I've read it seemingly has to mean something insidious like saying the N word and be a card carrying member of the KKK and not more everyday subtle behaviors or attitudes. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10 ... ed-Dream-Defenders-ACTION http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07 ... -lima-peru_n_3623028.html 2. If we're going to impeach Trayvon's past, then we have to the same with Zimmerman. He was known to have a propensity for lashing out and anger management issues before the fateful night with Trayvon. Much of his records were suppressed because his dad was a judge. If Zimmerman felt cajones to assault a law enforcement officer, why wouldn't he easily feel the same compunction toward a kid who he felt had no right to be there and be the provocateur? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03 ... -sentence-Anger-Managemet http://rollingout.com/culture/george- ... e-has-3-closed-arrests/#_ 3. Devils you ask why some middle to upper middle class blacks subscribe to this critical race theory, it's because in life experience we see things that you DO NOT see nor will ever see. And as to the comment about dressing well. Most of our middle class parents dressed us very well (ie preppy) to prevent us from encountering racism but I assure you that does not inoculate you either. Some of things are very very subtle and other very overt. Parallels can be drawn to sexism and homophobia, where men and heterosexuals can be readily oblivious to things that women and LGBT can easily discern from life experience. 4. Remember be constructive in feedback, not mean-spirited as it makes you seem ugly and common.
Posted on: 2014/3/17 16:45
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Ah yes, I found that concept interesting. Never heard of it until she brought it up. I'll have to Google it and see if it's made it to Wikipedia yet. Perhaps Mr. Crump can use that concept in his speeches.
Posted on: 2014/3/15 23:59
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Yes I have. What a piece of work she is. I should've given my kids constructively black/Hispanic names so that they don't have to score up to 400 points higher in SAT to compete with rich immigrants from Africa tribes or Cuba.
Posted on: 2014/3/15 23:52
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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You can see her discussion of those that are "constructively white" below.
Posted on: 2014/3/15 19:11
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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When liberals promote race-based discrimination in education they never mention Asians, as if Asians are the majority, or non-existent. How convenient. de blasio wants to do that to NYC's gifted program, and in California they want to apply that to UC admission: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/loc ... ction-sca5-249985511.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDGuiJRZa4I
Posted on: 2014/3/15 3:07
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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I agree that you can easily find in any town anywhere plenty of white kids doing meth or heroine and becoming juvenile delinquents. I also agree that white kids living in the middle to upper class suburbs are probably less subject to law enforcement scrutiny that most minorities. You further mention disinvestment in areas where blacks and latinos lived... Trayvon Martin was black, Zimmerman was latino... so both of them, under your theories were at a severe disadvantage in society.... what is your point here? This whole incident is not a black vs. white issue and the advantages that white people have over minorities, despite what so many holier-than-thou people would like to think. Seems so many of those people want to emphasize that Martin was black, but none of them emphasize that Zimmerman was latino.
Posted on: 2014/3/14 23:37
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we live in an unbalanced justice system whereby the victim appears to have less rights then the accused; when sentencing also, the impact of the crime on the victim appears to have less significance then the life history of the guilty.
Posted on: 2014/3/14 22:04
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Ben Crump, Trayvon Martin family lawyer to speak at NJCU
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Yep. The facts here are so incredibly one sided, yet here we are, reading more anti-Zimmerman nonsense. This is politics, racism and mob mentality at its worst.
Posted on: 2014/3/14 21:54
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Trayvon's high school had a policy of not turning kids in to the police for crimes committed on campus-otherwise he would have been arrested for being found with over a dozen pieces of stolen women's jewelry and a burglary tool in his bag, or when he defaced school property with graffiti-so the thought that white kids would get a pass for a similar crime isn't applicable in this case. Of course, all the photos that were suppressed of him making gang signs, or the picture of him with a gun on the counter next to him, were also not admissible in the trial either.
President Obama trying to sway the case by his grandstanding comment still didn't result in a conviction, which shows you how the facts still led to a dismissal of the charge in spite of it.
Posted on: 2014/3/14 21:37
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My point wasn't that no whites commit crimes or that there are not areas where jails are full of whites or hispanics or even Asians. My point was that the location where Zimmerman lived wasn't in Vermont, it was in an area where his suspicions may have been entirely reasonable. Based on what we've seen come out, I'm going to go with "yes, I think Zimmerman was right on the money with Trayvon." And if Trayvon wasn't a thug he would be alive. Before you go on that I've never hung out with Trayvon and don't really know him or some such nonsense, note that in your own posts you have discussed the multitude of times that Zimmerman saw some person he thought was suspicious and called the police, as he did this time. Why did he this time shoot the person? We don't see any indication that Zimmerman has ever been violent in the past. He just calls the cops. Why would he this time, per your theory, engage Trayvon? Basically your alternative theory of the case makes zero sense. What makes far more sense is that the kid, who we know loved to fight, attacked the "creepy cracker" (yes, he did say that) he noticed earlier. Anyway, departing from this topic a bit and engaging in some intercultural communications instead. I have a question for you that maybe you can enlighten me on. I noticed this in law school. Why is it that the people (mostly blacks, though not always) who become big followers of critical race theory type stuff generally come from middle, upper middle and above suburbs? This doesn't actually make a lot of sense.
Posted on: 2014/3/14 21:22
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I grew up in middle to upper middle class burbs and know full well that we were not policed in the same manner as kids in inner cities are. I was one of the good kids so it's irrelevant. Anyway, it's well documented that suburban middle to upper middle class kids (especially white ones) are not scrutinized like kids of color (color being associated with caste but as society progresses, SOME of us are becoming enlightened). And of course there are historical antecedents as to why there is more crime in urban areas (the vestiges of jim crow which went up to the 60s, lack of jobs, disinvestment from the areas where blacks and latinos lived, white flight, young teens who were ill-equipped to have kids and continued in such a cycle, guns, drugs, vice in said communities as an underground economy). I didn't mention the historical reasons because it goes without saying and didn't think I had to do the paint by numbers scenario for you. Go to any derelict white suburb or prairie heartland town in the midwest where jobs are scarce and there's been disinvestment, you'll find white kids on meth or heroin doing delinquent things as well (see Rutland Vermont, NY Times article), you're just focusing on the locale where you did your externship. I seriously hope you're not in the judicial court system (prosecutor or otherwise) as you're a ignominious blight to the legal profession.
http://www.apa.org/news/press/release ... /03/black-boys-older.aspx
Posted on: 2014/3/14 20:03
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Trayvon beat the crap out of Zimmerman, and his injuries demonstrate that. You can refuse to accept Zimmerman's account, but everything we have available supports the key facts. This is why he was found not guilty despite significant political pressure (including all the way up to the President) to make sure he never walks free again. And lol @ the notion that an entire correctional facility was overwhelmingly filled with a single racial demographic because of racism. At least make it indirect and declare that it is due to historical and socio-economic reasons or something, but really, racism? That's crap, and it is unacceptable to anyone with a triple digit IQ. No one is convinced by your race card BS and you are not doing any favor to black professionals that want to be treated as equals. When people read this kind of crap, they tend to associate dealing with protected classes as a liability, which is really unfortunate and really perpetuates division rather than encouraging integration.
Posted on: 2014/3/14 18:48
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He was wearing a hoody and peering into windows to see what he could steal.
Posted on: 2014/3/14 18:28
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You know what? I don't necessarily think Trayvon Martin deserved what he got. I wasn't there and all the eyewitness reports I've read so far don't tell me enough to form an accurate opinion on the matter. But I find it ridiculous that Zimmerman is being sued and that anyone thinks he can be punished by being made "penniless", when he is already nearly broke paying his own lawyers, if he owns his home in Florida no civil lawsuit or bankruptcy filing can force it to be taken away and I think Mr. Crump knows this. Mr. Crump filing this lawsuit isn't about getting any money out of Zimmerman, it is about the publicity so he can do speaking engagements around the country, get a book deal and maybe even royalties from movie rights. This is no different from what Ron Kuby did in 1996 in the meaningless $40 million verdict he won for Darrell Cabey against Bernie Goetz. Bernie filed bankruptcy and hasn't paid a dime of that money, he went broke paying his own lawyers in the criminal and civil trials. Darrell Cabey got nothing other than Ron Kuby saying "his life was worth a lot" (highly debatable, but I won't get into that now). Meanwhile Mr. Kuby gets a radio show, regularly appears on television and a lot of free advertising for his law practice, all at the expense of dragging both Bernie and Darrell into court and using court resources, mostly funded by taxpayer dollars (I'm sure he had to pay a few filing fees though). This is the same crap Mr. Crump is pulling - he doesn't really care about Trayvon Martin, especially since he already got a $1 million settlement from the homeowners association for the parents (and happily collected a 33% fee from I'm sure), he knows there is no more money to be made from civil lawsuits in this matter, he just wants to be another Ron Kuby under the facade of "fighting for justice". We'll see how good a radio and television presence he has though, it may not work out so well anyway.
Posted on: 2014/3/14 18:27
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He was wearing khakis and tennis shoes. Yeah serious gangbanger clothing. http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-ms ... rtins-dead-body-753370712
Posted on: 2014/3/14 17:16
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No they are not the same, those kids were menacing Goetz and Trayvon was minding his own business and didn't know who Zimmerman was. Be sloppy in making parallels. I am not going to take Zimmerman's version as truth just because he says that's what happened (he can say anything with there being no witnesses and his character is questionable given his past). And black and latino kids are disproportionately punished and suspended at a higher rate than for the same infractions committed by white kids (who often get warnings, rehab, lectures, my white friends have told me this and I've seen it, note the affluenza kid who ran over people and the white teen who accidentally killed his stepson and said on a jailhouse call "I'm a 16 year old blond, all I need to do is go before the judge and cry and I'll get off") That is incontrovertible fact, so yes you're going to see more kids of color in the juvenile system, especially for selling drugs. And you don't know me in the least so refrain from telling me how I feel and what I think. I am professional and dress conservatively but that is no defense from people making assumptions. You are myopic and clueless on many facets of life, one of them being race. The incident I was referring to is when I was coming home from my gym (in gym clothes) and an elderly white woman who was visiting someone clutched her pocketbook on the elevator. And I've been followed in one store in my neighborhood (which I won't name) and I've never shoplifted in my life. My other professional black friends have experienced the same and we don't go there.
Posted on: 2014/3/14 17:13
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The speech is called 'Fighting for Justice'-will they be speaking of the racist jury that acquitted OJ Simpson?
Posted on: 2014/3/14 17:02
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Um, yes, it is like with Goetz, where you also had teens attacking a man who then defended himself with a gun. I'm absolutely conflating them because it is a similar scenario. Now, back to you yet again injecting race into it. The teens with Bernie Goetz were also black. 100% of them. What can we read into this? Not much. You know, in law school I was part of a juvenile justice clinic that provided services to indigent teen defendants. I recall visiting a juvenile correctional facility to meet with an incarcerated client (yes, black, as was every single client I had). Guess what one cannot help but notice? Almost every single person there was black. I recall looking into the yard and noting 1 white male out of about 100 kids there. In the housing common area there were only black kids. I'm not bringing this up to rag on any group, but when you bring race back into this and note that Zimmerman was calling the cops on suspicious people who happened to be black, it may not be the case that he was being racist at all. Neither was the witness, who noted she was robbed by two black teens who looked like Trayvon. Their skin color, just like their height and build are physical characteristics relevant to identification. By the way, when you mention that you yourself have been looked at in a suspicious manner, I note that you also stated that you don't think you should have to worry about how you dressed or acted because you shouldn't have to care what others think. That doesn't actually make any sense. If a white teen dresses and acts in a manner that is suspicious then he will also attract negative attention. I work with plenty of black people who graduated from top schools, dress in professional clothing, and as a result are treated as members of the elite, which they are. Of course, if everyone (regardless of color) at my work changed into gang clothing and started peering into windows then sure, we would all get suspicious looks and people would probably call the cops. If we were a group of teens then that would result in an even harsher response. I remember being a teen and being trailed by the police because I was a young male. That is life. You carry on with your business and eventually people leave you alone. You know what you don't do? Turn around and attack the people trailing you, wondering if you're a suspicious person. That's a criminal act and they would have the right to defend themselves. Because while you may not like them thinking that someone is suspicious or trailing them in a public place, they have every legal right to do so. Finally, thanks for linking to the Huffington Post. I see you're on a roll with your sources.
Posted on: 2014/3/14 16:55
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Nice way to hijack and derail the thread by conflating Trayvon with Bernard Goetz and the Asbury Park incident and implying somehow that Trayvon deserved what he got. And if you've read my previous posts, I said we cannot tolerate or condone violent crime and people should be punished accordingly (non-violent offenses is another matter and no, I don't think people should be written off where we spend more money on keeping people in jail). Implicit bias is quite real (and can have detrimental consequences) as I've experienced the subtext in the course of my life being black.
"in the Zimmerman trial, prosecutors abrogated their responsibility to argue the issue to the jury. They didn't even object to offensive racial stereotypes raised by the defense in that trial. Zimmerman's defense team called a young white woman to testify about two African-American burglars who'd robbed her six months before Trayvon Martin was shot. The prosecution should have leapt to their feet, objecting to the outrageous association of burglars with Trayvon Martin, who had no connection to them whatsoever. The defense called Trayvon Martin a "match" to the burglars, with skin color the basis for the match. Demonizing Trayvon Martin based on thieves with whom he shared nothing but blackness is the very definition of racism, but no one said so in the courtroom, not even the prosecutors whose job it was to advocate for the shooting victim. In addition, Zimmerman had called the police about other suspicious people in his neighborhood multiple times in the six months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting. All those recorded calls admitted into evidence -- 100 percent -- were about African Americans. Corey's team never argued this obvious racial profiling to the jury. As a result, the Zimmerman jurors who spoke to the press, just like the Dunn jurors, stated proudly that the case was not "about" race. One Zimmerman juror, known only as Maddy, said she noticed the racial profiling in Zimmerman's police calls but ignored it because she'd been told race was not part of the case." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-bl ... cid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063
Posted on: 2014/3/14 15:26
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