heights wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
So how much is Mr. Crump being paid to speak at this event (whether it was private or public money for him and his travel expenses, I don't care, my point is the same), and because this is a somewhat high profile event, are Jersey City taxpayers on the hook for police overtime to provide the necessary added security at the event?

Do you have something against Trayvon and the outcome of his demise?

caj11 wrote:
So how much is Mr. Crump being paid to speak at this event (whether it was private or public money for him and his travel expenses, I don't care, my point is the same), and because this is a somewhat high profile event, are Jersey City taxpayers on the hook for police overtime to provide the necessary added security at the event?

hagancenter wrote:



The Lee Hagan Africana Studies Center proudly presents:
EMANCIPATION 2.0: STILL FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE
March 17, 7:00-9:00 p.m.
Michael B. Gilligan Student Union Building
Multipurpose Room B
2039 Kennedy Boulevard
Jersey City, NJ 07305-1597
http://www.njcu.edu/Maps_and_Directions.aspx
http://www.njcu.edu/Campus_Parking.aspx

Program:
Introduction
Lecture by Benjamin Crump, Esq
Q&A

caj11 wrote:


Well then Mr. Crump needs to either get his money back from whatever law school he attended or take a continuing legal education course on civil law in Florida, because that's what he's doing. Whether Zimmerman can be sued or not, any civil lawsuit against is just ludicrous.

MDM wrote:

But what I want to get back to here is that Mr. Crump is not going to get any money by suing Zimmerman. The guy is broke from paying all his lawyers and I think Mr. Crump knows that (not to mention he already settled with the HOA for $1 million). At best, Zimmerman may have to turn over the keys to his car if found liable.


Zimmerman cannot be sued under Florida law as he was cleared of any criminal wrongdoing.

VanVorster wrote:

1. For those who say "well no one is mentioning that Zimmerman is latino or Hispanic, not white" Since when are Hispanics/Latinos impervious to racism. Latin America was colonized under the aegis of white supremacy as well. Go to Panama, Brazil, Peru, Mexico, Ecuador, Cuba, etc. The white skinned Hispanics are on the higher end of the totem pole and the darker skinned Hispanics at the bottom. Even Peru where Zimmerman's mother is from has an informal policy that only blacks serve as pallbearers at funerals. And in the story about her, she's professed that it's important for families to marry white for betterment and looks down on blacks. So why is it illogical that Zimmerman, his brother George, couldn't conceivably be racist or dislike black people from being imbued with attitudes from their parents? I also think you have a narrow definition of racist behavior. For you from what I've read it seemingly has to mean something insidious like saying the N word and be a card carrying member of the KKK and not more everyday subtle behaviors or attitudes. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10 ... ed-Dream-Defenders-ACTION

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07 ... -lima-peru_n_3623028.html

2. If we're going to impeach Trayvon's past, then we have to the same with Zimmerman. He was known to have a propensity for lashing out and anger management issues before the fateful night with Trayvon. Much of his records were suppressed because his dad was a judge. If Zimmerman felt cajones to assault a law enforcement officer, why wouldn't he easily feel the same compunction toward a kid who he felt had no right to be there and be the provocateur?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03 ... -sentence-Anger-Managemet

http://rollingout.com/culture/george- ... e-has-3-closed-arrests/#_

3. Devils you ask why some middle to upper middle class blacks subscribe to this critical race theory, it's because in life experience we see things that you DO NOT see nor will ever see. And as to the comment about dressing well. Most of our middle class parents dressed us very well (ie preppy) to prevent us from encountering racism but I assure you that does not inoculate you either. Some of things are very very subtle and other very overt. Parallels can be drawn to sexism and homophobia, where men and heterosexuals can be readily oblivious to things that women and LGBT can easily discern from life experience.

4. Remember be constructive in feedback, not mean-spirited as it makes you seem ugly and common.

VanVorster wrote:
If you are all as educated as you profess to be, I think you can do a better job at staying on topic, being constructive and insightful on your posts and not being incendiary (Tenet #5 on Message Forum), derailing the conversation on making it a referendum on affirmative action, not making it personally about (I'm white and I was once mugged so know how Zimmerman must have felt that night) and to really open and challenge your minds (e.g., I personally don't see any racism or how this is a race issue, so therefore can't be a factor) Query who made you the sole arbiter to determine?

1. For those who say "well no one is mentioning that Zimmerman is latino or Hispanic, not white" Since when are Hispanics/Latinos impervious to racism. Latin America was colonized under the aegis of white supremacy as well. Go to Panama, Brazil, Peru, Mexico, Ecuador, Cuba, etc. The white skinned Hispanics are on the higher end of the totem pole and the darker skinned Hispanics at the bottom. Even Peru where Zimmerman's mother is from has an informal policy that only blacks serve as pallbearers at funerals. And in the story about her, she's professed that it's important for families to marry white for betterment and looks down on blacks. So why is it illogical that Zimmerman, his brother George, couldn't conceivably be racist or dislike black people from being imbued with attitudes from their parents? I also think you have a narrow definition of racist behavior. For you from what I've read it seemingly has to mean something insidious like saying the N word and be a card carrying member of the KKK and not more everyday subtle behaviors or attitudes. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10 ... ed-Dream-Defenders-ACTION

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07 ... -lima-peru_n_3623028.html

2. If we're going to impeach Trayvon's past, then we have to the same with Zimmerman. He was known to have a propensity for lashing out and anger management issues before the fateful night with Trayvon. Much of his records were suppressed because his dad was a judge. If Zimmerman felt cajones to assault a law enforcement officer, why wouldn't he easily feel the same compunction toward a kid who he felt had no right to be there and be the provocateur?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03 ... -sentence-Anger-Managemet

http://rollingout.com/culture/george- ... e-has-3-closed-arrests/#_

3. Devils you ask why some middle to upper middle class blacks subscribe to this critical race theory, it's because in life experience we see things that you DO NOT see nor will ever see. And as to the comment about dressing well. Most of our middle class parents dressed us very well (ie preppy) to prevent us from encountering racism but I assure you that does not inoculate you either. Some of things are very very subtle and other very overt. Parallels can be drawn to sexism and homophobia, where men and heterosexuals can be readily oblivious to things that women and LGBT can easily discern from life experience.

4. Remember be constructive in feedback, not mean-spirited as it makes you seem ugly and common.

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

dojan wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Seems so many of those people want to emphasize that Martin was black, but none of them emphasize that Zimmerman was latino.

When liberals promote race-based discrimination in education they never mention Asians, as if Asians are the majority, or non-existent. How convenient.

de blasio wants to do that to NYC's gifted program, and in California they want to apply that to UC admission:

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/loc ... ction-sca5-249985511.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDGuiJRZa4I

You can see her discussion of those that are "constructively white" below.

devilsadvocate wrote:
You can see her discussion of those that are "constructively white" below.

dojan wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Seems so many of those people want to emphasize that Martin was black, but none of them emphasize that Zimmerman was latino.

When liberals promote race-based discrimination in education they never mention Asians, as if Asians are the majority, or non-existent. How convenient.

de blasio wants to do that to NYC's gifted program, and in California they want to apply that to UC admission:

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/loc ... ction-sca5-249985511.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDGuiJRZa4I

caj11 wrote:
Seems so many of those people want to emphasize that Martin was black, but none of them emphasize that Zimmerman was latino.

VanVorster wrote:
I grew up in middle to upper middle class burbs and know full well that we were not policed in the same manner as kids in inner cities are. I was one of the good kids so it's irrelevant. Anyway, it's well documented that suburban middle to upper middle class kids (especially white ones) are not scrutinized like kids of color (color being associated with caste but as society progresses, SOME of us are becoming enlightened). And of course there are historical antecedents as to why there is more crime in urban areas (the vestiges of jim crow which went up to the 60s, lack of jobs, disinvestment from the areas where blacks and latinos lived, white flight, young teens who were ill-equipped to have kids and continued in such a cycle, guns, drugs, vice in said communities as an underground economy). I didn't mention the historical reasons because it goes without saying and didn't think I had to do the paint by numbers scenario for you. Go to any derelict white suburb or prairie heartland town in the midwest where jobs are scarce and there's been disinvestment, you'll find white kids on meth or heroin doing delinquent things as well (see Rutland Vermont, NY Times article), you're just focusing on the locale where you did your externship. I seriously hope you're not in the judicial court system (prosecutor or otherwise) as you're a ignominious blight to the legal profession.

http://www.apa.org/news/press/release ... /03/black-boys-older.aspx

Monroe wrote:
Trayvon's high school had a policy of not turning kids in to the police for crimes committed on campus-otherwise he would have been arrested for being found with over a dozen pieces of stolen women's jewelry and a burglary tool in his bag, or when he defaced school property with graffiti-so the thought that white kids would get a pass for a similar crime isn't applicable in this case. Of course, all the photos that were suppressed of him making gang signs, or the picture of him with a gun on the counter next to him, were also not admissible in the trial either.

President Obama trying to sway the case by his grandstanding comment still didn't result in a conviction, which shows you how the facts still led to a dismissal of the charge in spite of it.

VanVorster wrote:
I grew up in middle to upper middle class burbs and know full well that we were not policed in the same manner as kids in inner cities are. I was one of the good kids so it's irrelevant. Anyway, it's well documented that suburban middle to upper middle class kids (especially white ones) are not scrutinized like kids of color (color being associated with caste but as society progresses, SOME of us are becoming enlightened). And of course there are historical antecedents as to why there is more crime in urban areas (the vestiges of jim crow which went up to the 60s, lack of jobs, disinvestment from the areas where blacks and latinos lived, white flight, young teens who were ill-equipped to have kids and continued in such a cycle, guns, drugs, vice in said communities as an underground economy). I didn't mention the historical reasons because it goes without saying and didn't think I had to do the paint by numbers scenario for you. Go to any derelict white suburb or prairie heartland town in the midwest where jobs are scarce and there's been disinvestment, you'll find white kids on meth or heroin doing delinquent things as well (see Rutland Vermont, NY Times article), you're just focusing on the locale where you did your externship. I seriously hope you're not in the judicial court system (prosecutor or otherwise) as you're a ignominious blight to the legal profession.

http://www.apa.org/news/press/release ... /03/black-boys-older.aspx

VanVorster wrote:
No they are not the same, those kids were menacing Goetz and Trayvon was minding his own business and didn't know who Zimmerman was. Be sloppy in making parallels. I am not going to take Zimmerman's version as truth just because he says that's what happened (he can say anything with there being no witnesses and his character is questionable given his past). And black and latino kids are disproportionately punished and suspended at a higher rate than for the same infractions committed by white kids (who often get warnings, rehab, lectures, my white friends have told me this and I've seen it, note the affluenza kid who ran over people and the white teen who accidentally killed his stepson and said on a jailhouse call "I'm a 16 year old blond, all I need to do is go before the judge and cry and I'll get off") That is incontrovertible fact, so yes you're going to see more kids of color in the juvenile system, especially for selling drugs. And you don't know me in the least so refrain from telling me how I feel and what I think. I am professional and dress conservatively but that is no defense from people making assumptions. You are myopic and clueless on many facets of life, one of them being race. The incident I was referring to is when I was coming home from my gym (in gym clothes) and an elderly white woman who was visiting someone clutched her pocketbook on the elevator. And I've been followed in one store in my neighborhood (which I won't name) and I've never shoplifted in my life. My other professional black friends have experienced the same and we don't go there.

VanVorster wrote:
He was wearing khakis and tennis shoes. Yeah serious gangbanger clothing. http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-ms ... rtins-dead-body-753370712

VanVorster wrote:
He was wearing khakis and tennis shoes. Yeah serious gangbanger clothing. http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-ms ... rtins-dead-body-753370712

VanVorster wrote:
Nice way to hijack and derail the thread by conflating Trayvon with Bernard Goetz and the Asbury Park incident and implying somehow that Trayvon deserved what he got. And if you've read my previous posts, I said we cannot tolerate or condone violent crime and people should be punished accordingly (non-violent offenses is another matter and no, I don't think people should be written off where we spend more money on keeping people in jail). Implicit bias is quite real (and can have detrimental consequences) as I've experienced the subtext in the course of my life being black.

"in the Zimmerman trial, prosecutors abrogated their responsibility to argue the issue to the jury. They didn't even object to offensive racial stereotypes raised by the defense in that trial. Zimmerman's defense team called a young white woman to testify about two African-American burglars who'd robbed her six months before Trayvon Martin was shot. The prosecution should have leapt to their feet, objecting to the outrageous association of burglars with Trayvon Martin, who had no connection to them whatsoever. The defense called Trayvon Martin a "match" to the burglars, with skin color the basis for the match. Demonizing Trayvon Martin based on thieves with whom he shared nothing but blackness is the very definition of racism, but no one said so in the courtroom, not even the prosecutors whose job it was to advocate for the shooting victim.

In addition, Zimmerman had called the police about other suspicious people in his neighborhood multiple times in the six months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting. All those recorded calls admitted into evidence -- 100 percent -- were about African Americans. Corey's team never argued this obvious racial profiling to the jury. As a result, the Zimmerman jurors who spoke to the press, just like the Dunn jurors, stated proudly that the case was not "about" race. One Zimmerman juror, known only as Maddy, said she noticed the racial profiling in Zimmerman's police calls but ignored it because she'd been told race was not part of the case."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-bl ... cid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063