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devilsadvocate

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
Glad they let the dog live.

I have mixed feelings on that whole incident. On one hand, the fault clearly was with the humans in that case on numerous fronts, and in an ideal world that dog would get care to live a happy, full life after rehabilitation by a behaviorist. In reality, though, that isn't going to happen and the resources spent on this case could have saved dozens of dogs. The dog will basically spend his life in the dog equivalent of solitary confinement in prison, again, using resources that could have saved numerous others without his issues.

Plus, while a large number of people were fighting for this one dog, which is great, I hope these people intend to keep fighting for the tens of thousands of dogs that die every single day in shelters across the country simply because there aren't enough home or resources for them.

I agree but I am sure that the people who supported sparing the dog's life also advocate for shelter dogs. The dog in this case will probably end up at that place in Utah where Michael Vick's dogs were taken. I still cannot believe people don't spay and neuter their dogs. Just plain stupid.

I hope you're right. With respect to these people continuing to work for shelter dogs, unfortunately, that doesn't always pan out. It is an interesting social phenomenon that people like to devote themselves to well known cases, then go back to normal life after it is over. So, there was a case where a dog got given up because his owner said he was gay. Instantly adopted, 1000 people lined up. The shelter was a high percentage kill shelter, so if that story did not go viral the dog would probably have died. I'm also guessing that few of the people actually adopted one of the other dogs at the shelter.

Posted on: 2014/3/27 14:39

Vigilante

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
Glad they let the dog live.

I have mixed feelings on that whole incident. On one hand, the fault clearly was with the humans in that case on numerous fronts, and in an ideal world that dog would get care to live a happy, full life after rehabilitation by a behaviorist. In reality, though, that isn't going to happen and the resources spent on this case could have saved dozens of dogs. The dog will basically spend his life in the dog equivalent of solitary confinement in prison, again, using resources that could have saved numerous others without his issues.

Plus, while a large number of people were fighting for this one dog, which is great, I hope these people intend to keep fighting for the tens of thousands of dogs that die every single day in shelters across the country simply because there aren't enough home or resources for them.

I agree but I am sure that the people who supported sparing the dog's life also advocate for shelter dogs. The dog in this case will probably end up at that place in Utah where Michael Vick's dogs were taken. I still cannot believe people don't spay and neuter their dogs. Just plain stupid.

Posted on: 2014/3/27 3:24

JCbiscuit

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
Glad they let the dog live.

...the resources spent on this case could have saved dozens of dogs. The dog will basically spend his life in the dog equivalent of solitary confinement in prison, again, using resources that could have saved numerous others without his issues.

Plus, while a large number of people were fighting for this one dog, which is great, I hope these people intend to keep fighting for the tens of thousands of dogs that die every single day in shelters across the country simply because there aren't enough home or resources for them.

a thousand times this.

Posted on: 2014/3/26 21:44

devilsadvocate

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
Glad they let the dog live.

I have mixed feelings on that whole incident. On one hand, the fault clearly was with the humans in that case on numerous fronts, and in an ideal world that dog would get care to live a happy, full life after rehabilitation by a behaviorist. In reality, though, that isn't going to happen and the resources spent on this case could have saved dozens of dogs. The dog will basically spend his life in the dog equivalent of solitary confinement in prison, again, using resources that could have saved numerous others without his issues.

Plus, while a large number of people were fighting for this one dog, which is great, I hope these people intend to keep fighting for the tens of thousands of dogs that die every single day in shelters across the country simply because there aren't enough home or resources for them.

Posted on: 2014/3/26 20:07

Vigilante

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Glad they let the dog live.

Posted on: 2014/3/26 1:05

GrovePath

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Arizona judge orders pit bull to be neutered, defanged, microchipped; gets life sentence

Associated Press
Mar 25, 2014

PHOENIX - A Phoenix judge on Tuesday spared the life of a pit bull that mauled a 4-year-old boy last month and touched off a polarizing Internet debate on mercy, blame and animal violence.

Municipal Court Judge Deborah Griffin ruled that the dog named Mickey must be neutered, defanged and microchipped. She declared the dog vicious earlier in the day and could have ordered euthanasia.

"There would be absolutely no possibility of the animal ever doing this to someone again," Griffin said, saying the dog must remain in a facility for the rest of its life and can't be adopted.

An animal rights group is the trustee for the dog and has 30 days to find a rehabilitation center or shelter to take Mickey. An animal advocate in court started to cry when hearing the dog would live.

The Feb. 20 attack left Kevin Vicente with a broken eye socket and jaw, and the boy has months, if not years, of reconstructive surgery ahead of him.

The question of whether the pit bull should live or die attracted a team of top death penalty lawyers, led to candlelight vigils and riled up thousands of animal lovers on social media who placed blame with the dog's owners and child's baby sitter.

Meanwhile, donations and gifts from around the world have flowed in for Kevin since the dog bit the boy in the face.

Floridalma Vicente, the boy's mother, said she is grateful for the outpouring of public support, but can't understand the support that emerged for the dog.

"It disturbed me at first that they placed more value on an animal than on a child, and that made me feel very bad," Vicente told The Arizona Republic through a Spanish interpreter. "If they don't care about (Kevin), well, I do."

Neither Vicente nor the man who owned the dog attended the court hearing.

Guadalupe Villa, whose boyfriend's mother was baby-sitting Kevin the day of the attack, filed the vicious-dog court petition that started the case. In her petition, she describes Mickey as a dog that has a history of acting without provocation and that killed one of her dogs.

Animal advocates hit back, saying both the dog and boy are victims and the baby sitter watching the child was negligent in letting him play near the animal. They also argued the owner was fostering aggression by keeping the dog chained up.

On Tuesday, Griffin said several adults shared some responsibility for the attack. The judge pointed out that there was a "Beware of Dog" sign on the property's fence but the gate was left open and children were allowed to play near the dog.

"This whole case has been very, very distressing to me," Griffin said, adding that Kevin will pay the price for the rest of his life.

A half dozen animal rights advocates attended the hearing in T-shirts that bore a paw mark and a slogan, "Save Mickey."

One of them, Veronica Lee, said the hearing showed that the baby sitter wasn't watching closely and that Mickey was kept chained.

"We were not here to put a dog above Kevin," Lee said. "We were just here to make sure justice was served."

Luis Acosta, who said he's not related to anyone involved in the case, disagreed with the judge's decision and questioned whether the government would really ensure the dog was never adopted.

"Who is going to see to it five years from now that this dog still hasn't been adopted out?" Acosta said.

Pit bulls are viewed by some as a dangerous breed, a reputation their fans dispute.

Those who had hoped to rescue Mickey took their cause to Facebook, where a "Save Mickey" page has garnered more than 59,000 likes. The dog's supporters recently used social media to organize a candlelight vigil and even a YouTube video plea.

"This is not Kevin versus Mickey," attorney John Schill, one of three attorneys representing the dog, has said. "Having Mickey killed is not going to take away Kevin's pain or injuries. The only thing this is going to do is kill a poor, innocent dog."

Schill was working pro bono at the request of the Lexus Project, a New York-based nonprofit that raised money for the dog's legal defense fund and is its trustee.

The same group fought earlier this year for the life of a dog that fatally mauled a toddler in Nevada. In that case, the mastiff-Rhodesian mix was turned over to an animal rescue after the city of Henderson gave up the court fight to euthanize the dog.

Mickey has been living in a cage away from other animals and from public view at the Maricopa County Animal Control and Care Center.

Posted on: 2014/3/26 0:28

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I_heart_JC

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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This tough guy names his dog "Trigger," then neglects it, leaving it outdoors in all weather, barking day and night. And of course, judging by the photo, the dog isn't neutered. That wouldn't be macho.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014 ... rs_said.html#incart_river

Paul Clarke is a heartless dog owner and a total dick of a neighbor.

I hope the families of these boys take this jackass's house, and every dime he makes from this day forward.

Posted on: 2014/3/7 8:58

jcdd

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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The owner of that dog needs to be prosecuted for murder and put in jail for a long time.

Posted on: 2014/3/7 1:54

user1111

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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TOTOWA ? More than 100 people gathered at a Totowa church today to say goodbye to Kenneth Santillan, the 13-year-old Paterson boy who was killed in a vicious dog attack last week, according to a report in The Record.

Kenneth, who was mauled by a 115-pound bull mastiff, was remembered as a friendly and funny teen during eulogies delivered during funeral services at St. James of the Marches Roman Catholic Church, the report said.

The dog broke loose from its owner's residence in Paterson Friday and attacked Kenneth, another 13-year-old boy and its owner. Kenneth died hours later, while the second teenage victim was released from the hospital earlier this week, according to Passaic County Assistant Prosecutor Michael DeMarco. The extent of injuries suffered by the dog's owner was unclear, DeMarco said.

Resized Image

Kenneth Santillan, the 13-year-old Paterson boy who was killed in a vicious dog attack earlier this week, was mourned by roughly 100 people today during a funeral service in Totowa.

Friends said Kenneth admired his parents and would often flatter them, nudging his mom and saying "What's cooking, good looking?" when asking her to make his favorite dinner of barbecued chicken and white rice, the report said.

While he told the assembled mourners that the young boy would live on forever, Rev. Marek Krysiak said his words were "too small and not enough" in light of the recent tragedy.

JJ

Posted on: 2014/3/6 23:37

http://googleitbitch.com/

heights

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
I can't believe that any landlord is dumb enough to open themselves up for these lawsuits -- just imagine when their insurance companies find out!

Are you a lawyer? I happen to be, by the way. What lawsuits do you imagine they are opening themselves up to simply by renting to owners with certain breeds?

By the way, I'm a homeowner in downtown JC. If I were to rent out my row house, I would absolutely welcome people with dogs of any breed without any hesitation. Yes, that includes bull mastiffs, pit bulls and any other dogs you hate.

Some of the comments here resemble racist commentary you find on various internet forums. If we just ban "those sorts" we will be safe. We'll ban large dogs, dangerous breeds, guns and anything that we're frightened of. Good luck with that. You guys will fail miserably, and I will do absolutely everything in my power to make sure of it.

Good for you councilor.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 14:21

Get on your bikes and ride !

nyrgravey9

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Sorry, I forgot to put the contact information for JC Animal Control:

1 Journal Square Plaza
2nd Floor
Jersey City, NJ 07306
Tel: (201) 547-4888

http://www.cityofjerseycity.com/hhs.aspx?id=1434

They are well aware of the current issues and will respond quickly.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 13:50

alee2

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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My mother was attacked by a "friendly family dog" when she was 7. It was tied up outside of the neighborhood grocery store and she made the huge mistake of being too comfortable with dogs and got too close. It ripped her face to shreds and she's been covered in scars for 63 years.
Any dog, regardless of breed, is potentially dangerous, especially around strangers. My mother went on to own dogs her entire life without break and thinks the breed discussion is ridiculous. Sometimes it's the owners, sometimes it's the dog, and it's never something you can legislate. That said, the off-leash activity is as ridiculous as the ever-present poop, and the city should be ticketing heavily.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 13:18

nyrgravey9

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Any dog off leash is against the law and should be reported to animal control IMMEDIATELY.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 4:09

Yvonne

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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If your dog is sweet with kids, then she can teach your something.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 4:05

devilsadvocate

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Yvonne wrote:
Well, anyone that has a child and lives in downtown should run not walk, especially from devilsadvocate. What a fitting name, did your parent name you?

Is there anyone who isn't named by their parents?

In any event, no, I don't take the children of strangers over my own dog. That said, she happens to be very sweet with kids.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 3:51

jcdd

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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I recently saw a well dressed, 30ish blonde woman in Hamilton Park with her dog (looked to be some sort of pit bull mix) off the leash. Unfortunately I didn't have my phone ready to take a picture. And with a baby in tow, there was no way I was going to be confronting her.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 3:50

Yvonne

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Well, anyone that has a child and lives in downtown should run not walk, especially from devilsadvocate. What a fitting name, did your parent name you?

Posted on: 2014/3/5 3:39

devilsadvocate

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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GrovePath wrote:
With 50,000 lawyers being spit out every year -- landlords better worry about getting sued -- look at the time this guy has on his hands!

Yeah, just got back from a play date with my large dog's pit bull friend. They happily rent in downtown Jersey City and no one cares about your whining or ranting. We happily own in downtown Jersey City. How mad does that make you? None of us has any concern whatsoever.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 3:20

GrovePath

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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With 50,000 lawyers being spit out every year -- landlords better worry about getting sued -- look at the time this guy has on his hands!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/emsi/2014 ... inuing-glut-of-new-grads/

Posted on: 2014/3/5 3:17

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devilsadvocate

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Yvonne wrote:
I think it is sad that some people on this site, praise their pit bulls or other large animals, but offered no compassion to a human being, age 13, who met a horrible death.

Of course it is tragic. It goes without saying. But 13 year olds die every day from a million far more mundane things. Of course, these deaths are glossed over in favor of sensationalist press that riles people up.

Nevertheless, it shouldn't surprise you that when a death is used to whip anti-dog people into action that our primary concern is our dogs. They are our family members, after all.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 3:07

dtjcview

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Yvonne wrote:
I think it is sad that some people on this site, praise their pit bulls or other large animals, but offered no compassion to a human being, age 13, who met a horrible death.

The death of anyone, especially a kid, in traumatic circumstances is always shocking. What answers can you give the family? What answers could we give the Japanese cyclist's family that visited JC after the death of their beloved one? The natural response is to pass blame and look for quick fixes, and sometimes there just isn't one.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 3:06

Yvonne

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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I think it is sad that some people on this site, praise their pit bulls or other large animals, but offered no compassion to a human being, age 13, who met a horrible death.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 2:39

devilsadvocate

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Quote:

Br6dR wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

user1111 wrote:
I have two pits and love em.. I have a cat too, who is the shady violent one.

I don't have a pit bull, but have numerous friends with pits. I do have a large dog who I'm sure many in this thread would love to ban as well. Frankly, I'm sick of authoritarian nutcases that believe they have the right to turn urban areas into their personal Disneylands. If you want a gated community then please by all means move to a gated community. That would be a totally reasonable place to tell people about what life choices they should be making.

Anyway, hope to see your pups at the dog park. We also have a cat that is shady and violent that for some reason no one wants to ban. Go figure.

The "authoritarian nutcases" you so hate are already winning through insurance companies. If a landlord allows a vicious dog on the premises, he will have to pay a higher homeowner's insurance premium with several companies. This, not fear of legal liability, leads to de facto bans on vicious dogs, as landlords may opt for the cheaper premium and forbid tenants from owning such a dog.

Good luck fighting against that.

The trend has actually been towards less breed restrictions in insurance, not greater. You're certainly right that if one has a vicious dog with a history of eating children then they will pay more for their home insurance (unless the dog is excluded). However, some do not equate size or breed with viciousness.

But I do agree that pressure on insurance companies is important, and I have been a part of the efforts that have led to a turn-around.

Do you mind showing me anything to support "the trend has actually been towards less restrictions in insurance, not greater."

Because all I find is the opposite:

"These days, companies offering homeowners and renters insurance are pickier than ever about which types of dogs they?ll insure and which they won?t, says Jeff McCarthy, an agent with Harrington Insurance Agency in Woburn, Mass.

The reason: The insurance companies don?t want to deal with a potential lawsuit if someone gets bitten or hurt by your dog while they?re in your home, he says."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/cateyhill ... r-homeowners-and-renters/

For example, in 2012 State Farm removed breed discrimination. There are also several others, such as AAA and Travelers that do not discriminate by breed. The one recent reversal is Farmers, but that is only in California.

Do you have a link for that, Nondowntown?

For which items, and what do you mean "nondowntown?"

Posted on: 2014/3/5 2:28

devilsadvocate

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
"Court cases have held landlords liable in the following situations:

...The landlord had knowledge that the animal was a pit bull, and had control of the premises or otherwise had the ability to eliminate the danger by having the animal removed or confined."

http://dogbitelaw.com/landlord-liabil ... ites-by-tenants-dogs.html

As a landlord -- just getting sued is bad enough -- even if you eventually win -- and the law is even more clear about landlord's liability in multi unit buildings!

I notice they didn't provide a citation for that case. If they did you would almost certainly find that it was in a jurisdiction that either banned pit bulls (Denver or Miami, for example), or considered them dangerous by default (Ohio, before that got repealed in 2012).

As I said before, the law doesn't work the way you think it does, and if I were renting out my property I wouldn't hesitate to rent out to a pit bull or other large dog owner. I notice a large number of pit bull rescues in downtown. They don't seem to have much problems finding a place to live.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 2:27

GrovePath

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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"Court cases have held landlords liable in the following situations:

...The landlord had knowledge that the animal was a pit bull, and had control of the premises or otherwise had the ability to eliminate the danger by having the animal removed or confined."

http://dogbitelaw.com/landlord-liabil ... ites-by-tenants-dogs.html

As a landlord -- just getting sued is bad enough -- even if you eventually win -- and the law is even more clear about landlord's liability in multi unit buildings!

Posted on: 2014/3/5 1:00

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Br6dR

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

user1111 wrote:
I have two pits and love em.. I have a cat too, who is the shady violent one.

I don't have a pit bull, but have numerous friends with pits. I do have a large dog who I'm sure many in this thread would love to ban as well. Frankly, I'm sick of authoritarian nutcases that believe they have the right to turn urban areas into their personal Disneylands. If you want a gated community then please by all means move to a gated community. That would be a totally reasonable place to tell people about what life choices they should be making.

Anyway, hope to see your pups at the dog park. We also have a cat that is shady and violent that for some reason no one wants to ban. Go figure.

The "authoritarian nutcases" you so hate are already winning through insurance companies. If a landlord allows a vicious dog on the premises, he will have to pay a higher homeowner's insurance premium with several companies. This, not fear of legal liability, leads to de facto bans on vicious dogs, as landlords may opt for the cheaper premium and forbid tenants from owning such a dog.

Good luck fighting against that.

The trend has actually been towards less breed restrictions in insurance, not greater. You're certainly right that if one has a vicious dog with a history of eating children then they will pay more for their home insurance (unless the dog is excluded). However, some do not equate size or breed with viciousness.

But I do agree that pressure on insurance companies is important, and I have been a part of the efforts that have led to a turn-around.

Do you mind showing me anything to support "the trend has actually been towards less restrictions in insurance, not greater."

Because all I find is the opposite:

"These days, companies offering homeowners and renters insurance are pickier than ever about which types of dogs they?ll insure and which they won?t, says Jeff McCarthy, an agent with Harrington Insurance Agency in Woburn, Mass.

The reason: The insurance companies don?t want to deal with a potential lawsuit if someone gets bitten or hurt by your dog while they?re in your home, he says."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/cateyhill ... r-homeowners-and-renters/

For example, in 2012 State Farm removed breed discrimination. There are also several others, such as AAA and Travelers that do not discriminate by breed. The one recent reversal is Farmers, but that is only in California.

Do you have a link for that, Nondowntown?

Posted on: 2014/3/5 0:40

devilsadvocate

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

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Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

user1111 wrote:
I have two pits and love em.. I have a cat too, who is the shady violent one.

I don't have a pit bull, but have numerous friends with pits. I do have a large dog who I'm sure many in this thread would love to ban as well. Frankly, I'm sick of authoritarian nutcases that believe they have the right to turn urban areas into their personal Disneylands. If you want a gated community then please by all means move to a gated community. That would be a totally reasonable place to tell people about what life choices they should be making.

Anyway, hope to see your pups at the dog park. We also have a cat that is shady and violent that for some reason no one wants to ban. Go figure.

The "authoritarian nutcases" you so hate are already winning through insurance companies. If a landlord allows a vicious dog on the premises, he will have to pay a higher homeowner's insurance premium with several companies. This, not fear of legal liability, leads to de facto bans on vicious dogs, as landlords may opt for the cheaper premium and forbid tenants from owning such a dog.

Good luck fighting against that.

The trend has actually been towards less breed restrictions in insurance, not greater. You're certainly right that if one has a vicious dog with a history of eating children then they will pay more for their home insurance (unless the dog is excluded). However, some do not equate size or breed with viciousness.

But I do agree that pressure on insurance companies is important, and I have been a part of the efforts that have led to a turn-around.

Do you mind showing me anything to support "the trend has actually been towards less restrictions in insurance, not greater."

Because all I find is the opposite:

"These days, companies offering homeowners and renters insurance are pickier than ever about which types of dogs they?ll insure and which they won?t, says Jeff McCarthy, an agent with Harrington Insurance Agency in Woburn, Mass.

The reason: The insurance companies don?t want to deal with a potential lawsuit if someone gets bitten or hurt by your dog while they?re in your home, he says."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/cateyhill ... r-homeowners-and-renters/

For example, in 2012 State Farm removed breed discrimination. There are also several others, such as AAA and Travelers that do not discriminate by breed. The one recent reversal is Farmers, but that is only in California.

Posted on: 2014/3/4 23:47

devilsadvocate

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

#43

Home away from home

Joined:
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From Downtown Jersey City

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Registered Users

Posts: 820

Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

user1111 wrote:
I have two pits and love em.. I have a cat too, who is the shady violent one.

I don't have a pit bull, but have numerous friends with pits. I do have a large dog who I'm sure many in this thread would love to ban as well. Frankly, I'm sick of authoritarian nutcases that believe they have the right to turn urban areas into their personal Disneylands. If you want a gated community then please by all means move to a gated community. That would be a totally reasonable place to tell people about what life choices they should be making.

Anyway, hope to see your pups at the dog park. We also have a cat that is shady and violent that for some reason no one wants to ban. Go figure.

Welcome to an urban society with laws to govern EVERYONE'S viewpoint - I hear there are a few islands in the pacific up for sale where one can run naked and free with no social, morale or legal restrictions!

Clearly I'm proposing that JC become a lawless nudist colony. That said, morons that believe that they will be successful in banning large dogs or pit bulls or getting everyone to comply with their silly wants and desires will just continue to be extremely frustrated. Which is fine, but they're annoying and I just think everyone would be happier if they found a nice gated community where they would be perfectly safe and there would be zero undesirable dogs or people around. Also, I would have to donate less of my time and money to lobbying orgs that fight their obnoxious efforts.

There are a lot of 'morons' out there that might consider your viewpoint as moronic also - Welcome to democracy, freedom of speech and issues relating to social behavior.

I find it amusing that you cite freedom of speech when you just suggested making any group with racist views illegal in another thread. No matter. My point is that these people are objectively dolts, likely uneducated and unaccomplished. They will fail. But for them to fail other people, like me, will need to waste their time and money. It would be better for everyone if they acted more intelligently, such as moving to a location better suited for their desires.

By the way, the reason their views are moronic and mine are not is because I actually know what I'm talking about and these people use "logic" that has massive flaws.

Posted on: 2014/3/4 23:43

JCMan8

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

#42

Home away from home

Joined:
2012/11/10 20:38
Last Login :
2018/2/1 3:02

From JC

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3071

Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

user1111 wrote:
I have two pits and love em.. I have a cat too, who is the shady violent one.

I don't have a pit bull, but have numerous friends with pits. I do have a large dog who I'm sure many in this thread would love to ban as well. Frankly, I'm sick of authoritarian nutcases that believe they have the right to turn urban areas into their personal Disneylands. If you want a gated community then please by all means move to a gated community. That would be a totally reasonable place to tell people about what life choices they should be making.

Anyway, hope to see your pups at the dog park. We also have a cat that is shady and violent that for some reason no one wants to ban. Go figure.

The "authoritarian nutcases" you so hate are already winning through insurance companies. If a landlord allows a vicious dog on the premises, he will have to pay a higher homeowner's insurance premium with several companies. This, not fear of legal liability, leads to de facto bans on vicious dogs, as landlords may opt for the cheaper premium and forbid tenants from owning such a dog.

Good luck fighting against that.

The trend has actually been towards less breed restrictions in insurance, not greater. You're certainly right that if one has a vicious dog with a history of eating children then they will pay more for their home insurance (unless the dog is excluded). However, some do not equate size or breed with viciousness.

But I do agree that pressure on insurance companies is important, and I have been a part of the efforts that have led to a turn-around.

Do you mind showing me anything to support "the trend has actually been towards less restrictions in insurance, not greater."

Because all I find is the opposite:

"These days, companies offering homeowners and renters insurance are pickier than ever about which types of dogs they?ll insure and which they won?t, says Jeff McCarthy, an agent with Harrington Insurance Agency in Woburn, Mass.

The reason: The insurance companies don?t want to deal with a potential lawsuit if someone gets bitten or hurt by your dog while they?re in your home, he says."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/cateyhill ... r-homeowners-and-renters/

Posted on: 2014/3/4 23:41

fat-ass-bike

Re: Dog attack kills North Jersey teen, injures two others

#41

Home away from home

Joined:
2006/11/13 18:42
Last Login :
2022/2/28 7:31

From 280 Grove Street

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 4192

Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

user1111 wrote:
I have two pits and love em.. I have a cat too, who is the shady violent one.

I don't have a pit bull, but have numerous friends with pits. I do have a large dog who I'm sure many in this thread would love to ban as well. Frankly, I'm sick of authoritarian nutcases that believe they have the right to turn urban areas into their personal Disneylands. If you want a gated community then please by all means move to a gated community. That would be a totally reasonable place to tell people about what life choices they should be making.

Anyway, hope to see your pups at the dog park. We also have a cat that is shady and violent that for some reason no one wants to ban. Go figure.

Welcome to an urban society with laws to govern EVERYONE'S viewpoint - I hear there are a few islands in the pacific up for sale where one can run naked and free with no social, morale or legal restrictions!

Clearly I'm proposing that JC become a lawless nudist colony. That said, morons that believe that they will be successful in banning large dogs or pit bulls or getting everyone to comply with their silly wants and desires will just continue to be extremely frustrated. Which is fine, but they're annoying and I just think everyone would be happier if they found a nice gated community where they would be perfectly safe and there would be zero undesirable dogs or people around. Also, I would have to donate less of my time and money to lobbying orgs that fight their obnoxious efforts.

There are a lot of 'morons' out there that might consider your viewpoint as moronic also - Welcome to democracy, freedom of speech and issues relating to social behavior.

I'm of the belief that there are breeds far better suited to an urban social setting then others.

Posted on: 2014/3/4 23:35

My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.

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