There actually WAS an internet in the 1980's.
The internet was a catalyst for change. We now seem to live in a world that George Orwell predicted in his novel, ?1984.

From Wikipedia: History of the Internet

The history of the Internet began with the development of electronic computers in the 1950s. The first message was sent over the ARPANet, which evolved into the internet, from computer science Professor Leonard Kleinrock's laboratory at University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), after the second piece of network equipment was installed at Stanford Research Institute (SRI). Packet switched networks such as ARPANET, Mark I at NPL in the UK, CYCLADES, Merit Network, Tymnet, and Telenet, were developed in the late 1960s and early 1970s using a variety of protocols. The ARPANET in particular led to the development of protocols for internetworking, in which multiple separate networks could be joined together into a network of networks.

In 1982, the Internet protocol suite (TCP/IP) was standardized, and consequently, the concept of a world-wide network of interconnected TCP/IP networks, called the Internet, was introduced. Access to the ARPANET was expanded in 1981 when the National Science Foundation (NSF) developed the Computer Science Network (CSNET) and again in 1986 when NSFNET provided access to supercomputer sites in the United States from research and education organizations. Commercial Internet service providers (ISPs) began to emerge in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The ARPANET was decommissioned in 1990. The Internet was commercialized in 1995 when NSFNET was decommissioned, removing the last restrictions on the use of the Internet to carry commercial traffic.

Since the mid-1990s, the Internet has had a revolutionary impact on culture and commerce, including the rise of near-instant communication by electronic mail, instant messaging, Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) "phone calls", two-way interactive video calls, and the World Wide Web with its discussion forums, blogs, social networking, and online shopping sites. The research and education community continues to develop and use advanced networks such as NSF's very high speed Backbone Network Service (vBNS), Internet2, and National LambdaRail. Increasing amounts of data are transmitted at higher and higher speeds over fiber optic networks operating at 1-Gbit/s, 10-Gbit/s, or more. The Internet's takeover of the global communication landscape was almost instant in historical terms: it only communicated 1% of the information flowing through two-way telecommunications networks in the year 1993, already 51% by 2000, and more than 97% of the telecommunicated information by 2007.[1] Today the Internet continues to grow, driven by ever greater amounts of online information, commerce, entertainment, and social networking.

*"Orwellian" is an adjective describing the situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free and open society. It connotes an attitude and a brutal policy of draconian control by propaganda, surveillance, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past, including the "unperson" ? a person whose past existence is expunged from the public record and memory, practiced by modern repressive governments. Often, this includes the circumstances depicted in his novels, particularly Nineteen Eighty-Four.[1]

Sorry, Brewster, but it is the truth, unfortunately there was no internet in the 1980s and the Jersey Journal who later bought the Hudson Dispatch did not place old articles on the internet. But there are many people who have been here a long time and remember when this happened. Morris made yearly trips to the Port Authority and fought to keep the fares low. A deal was struck to allow the Port Authority to raise tolls on bridges and the tunnels in order to keep the PATH at thirty cents.

There is an interstate compact between New York and New Jersey and both states have enabling legislation to create the authority. To create an interstate compact, Congress must approve it. But all the details are between the states.

I am not aware of any compact, approved by Congress, which is then regulated or changed by Congress. It does make for an interesting area of Constitutional law, however.

This agency was created by Congress? So it would take an act of congress to undo it. Fulop for Senate anyone?

This agency was created by Congress. Interstate commerce is NOT being served here. Toll increases, fare increases, political wheeling and dealing in real estate, bridge closings and now Path closing wtc svc on weekends for a year? All result in economic chaos except for the ones collecting salaries at this agency. Time to put it out to pasture.

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From the docs you linked:
- biggest source of revenue - bridges and tunnels.
- biggest revenue sink - WTC
- Link between the two. None.

How does that prove New Yorkers and tourists are paying their fair share?

If you are not shilling for the PA, who are you shilling for?

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But not necessarily on the backs of NJ taxpayers exclusively, especially for a project physically in NY state and NYC. It's not like they got the MTA to also raise their tolls a few bucks to kick in.

Yvonne, I'll believe one man can make that deal with a huge bureaucracy on behalf of millions of people when you source it and post a link. Your say-so ain't enough, I don't mean to shock you but I don't find you entirely credible.

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During that time, inflation increased by around 243% -- including the double-digit inflation of the 70s. By 1982, fares were only covering 25% of PATH costs.

I support public transportation. I also support fares keeping up with inflation. Or at least, you should recognize that inflation exists, when discussing fare rates over 25+ year periods. ;)

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To be clear, I'm not criticizing this model. I'm only reminding people that a large number of people who do not use the PATH are helping to subsidize it.


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It's difficult to be precise about such a messy, contentious and politicized affair, and I don't recall all the details.

What I do know is that nothing and no one could have prevented the new WTC from being a mess. Again -- Pataki, Giuliani, Silverstein, PA, the families of the victims, the architects, the public were all pushing for different things. Silverstein was also a major player; e.g. he was able to throw Liebeskind off the tower project, and put SOM / David Childs in charge.

And again, to many critics -- such as the author of the article above -- PA is "damned if you do, damned if you don't." When it's involved in WTC, the entire mess belongs to the PA who shouldn't have been involved. When it's the ARC tunnel, and someone else takes the lead (like Amtrak or NJT), PA is at fault for not holding the reins.


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No matter how you slice it, the bulk of the costs were going to fall on the shoulders of taxpayers.

If you have some magic way to prevent a project like that from generating cost overruns, then you should open a consulting agency. :D

Brewster, is was one man the late Morris Pesin. He is the one who make sure the PATH remain thirty cents with the understanding tolls can be raised on bridges and tunnels. I also made that comment when the Port Authority had their public hearing. No one said I was wrong. So, the public who take the PATH, must also take NYC transit, we are being hit very hard.

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And the Staten I Ferry went from a nickel to a $0.50, to zero. All sorts of deals are made round here to buy votes. Do I have a hard time believing the HCDO could swing this? Not at all.

The PATH was thirty cents for more than twenty years, perhaps 25 years.
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/02/11/nyr ... vetoes-path-s-budget.html

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Most of us agree public transit should be subsidized as a public economic good. I can't say the same for a ridiculous 1776 ft erection that exists pretty much solely as symbol. The PA had no business clawing back the WTC after giving it up to Silverman. And there was no justification to raise commuter costs to cover the overages of this vanity project.

Why is it that the "monuments" to 9/11 are so awful? 1WTC, Empty Sky, the vagina sculpture down in Bayonne?

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I can't imagine anyone seriously holding that position. Every responsibility of an agency like PA has its own constituencies. Ports have shipping companies and dock workers; bridges have drivers and truckers; airports have airlines, workers, federal authorities, shipping companies, airline passengers.... Favoring one constituency, however large or powerful, is ultimately unfair and counter-productive.

And I hate to shock you, but PATH fares actually haven't gone up much since the 1960s, when adjusted for inflation.

http://www.hudsoncity.net/tubesenglish/fare.html

As noted above: As with most transit systems, the PATH is heavily subsidized. Revenues (almost all fares) pull in less than half of its costs. If the PATH had to self-fund, fares would be over $4 per trip.

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1) Please spare me such nonsense.

2) Re-read my post. I'm not defending PA. I'm saying that the article's view of PA is contradictory, and that breaking it up won't fix the problems.

It won't stop the cronyism, it won't make PA more accountable, it won't make PA more responsive, it won't force them to divest their real estate holdings. Happy now?


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You are completely and utterly incorrect.

Google search "port authority capital plan 2014"

http://www.panynj.gov/corporate-infor ... 4-public-capital-plan.pdf

60 pages detailing the 10 year capital plan. New projects like the Airport extension are broken out right on page 4. Type of project, page 5. More detail, and costs of the EWR extension are listed on page 19.


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Yes.

PA's revenues come from tolls, airport fees, facility fees (airports and ports), and rents. This is spread all over the region.

The PATH is a money loser for PA. In 2012, they collected $141 million (almost all in fares), and spent $300 million. (http://www.panynj.gov/corporate-infor ... 12-preliminary-budget.pdf)

So yes. Citizens of New Jersey, New York, tourists, businesses are already subsidizing the PATH.

The late Morris Pesin, also known as the Father of Liberty State Park, always attended the Port Authority meetings. He is the reason the fares remained at thirty cents for a long time. Pesin told me there is an agreement that the Port Authority can raise bridges and tunnels fares as long as they kept the PATH fares low. I wished I knew more information on this subject now because the train fares do not reflect that agreement.

Yes, the PA should be split up.

The PATH should be spun off to either NJT or MTA. I prefer MTA, the PATH has only 1 more stop in NJ than it has in NY, and there really should be 1 fare transfer to the subway.

The Crossings should be their own bistate agency.

The airports and ports should be under individual state control. Let there be open competition instead of backroom allocation of resources. Maybe there would have a been a rail ride to the airport a long time ago if NJ was running it's own airport.

The original cargo trade rationale for the PA was never very good, never well executed, and never balanced between the states. In the early 1900's the FTC mandated that freight loads to Hudson County and NYC cost the same, even though the NYC bound cargo had to be loaded onto barges and floated across. The PA was formed in 1919 to build a freight rail tunnel to NYC, it never happened. What was originally unfair to NJ ended up flipping over, as the PA built up Newark and Elizabeth as container ports in the 60's, and without rail the Manhattan and Brooklyn cargo industry died along with most of their other industry.

The PAs real estate business should be liquidated, it is and always was a scam.

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Your Spectra pay run out and shilling for the PA now? Some of that $27.6 billion earmarked for you? The issue I was highlighting was financial accountability. By lumping essential maintenance and new projects into the same "plan", they're hiding true costs and benefits.

And you seriously think New Yorkers and tourists will pay a fair contribution for the PATH extension to Newark? How many tourists and New Yorkers take the PATH daily, relative to the number of NJ commuters?

The blame goes to our elected officials who appoint incompetent cronies. Competent governors appoint competent people to important positions.

When elected officials don't give a crap if things function properly this is what happens. There's no real fix for the problem because no matter who is in charge it will be a public agency and Democrats and Republican alike long ago gave up on trying to get things to work and concentrated on trying to make themselves rich.

Just another symptom of our broken democracy.

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I have to say, I'm underwhelmed by the article's suggestions.

The GWB issues happened specifically because Christie had control of the NJ side. It was Foye, a Cuomo appointee, who ordered a stop to the traffic rerouting. I.e. cronyism will not go away because the agency is split into two.

Bi-state control of PA did not cause the WTC mess. In that case, you had too many people asserting or fighting for control (Pataki, PA, Silverstein, Giuliani, ) or making demands (families of the bereaved).

The public also felt invested, especially after seeing some of the master plans and memorial designs; putting in a dumpy utilitarian transit hub was not going to happen. Even the architects got into the act -- Arad, SOM/Childs and Libeskind were all feuding terribly, not far out of public view.

If the PA was split before 2001, that would have added another agency with a different agenda to the decision process. I don't see how that could possibly produce better results.

I also find it fascinating that the author blames the failures of the ARC tunnel on the PA not being involved. "The PA sucks, and they should have been in charge." Wha...?

And of course, it blames the PA for not having the funds to redo the Goethals. The solution the author proposes? Put their main sources of revenue into the states' general funds. Which basically guarantees that PA will be underfunded, as there is no question that politicians would reallocate those funds elsewhere.

I will admit that I don't know what the solution is, and divesting from real estate holdings probably is part of the solution. But ultimately, I suspect that the real issue is the inability of our elected officials to properly supervise the PA, and at least part of the solution is to make the PA more communicative and accountable to the public.

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Try reading the article you cite next time.

The extension will cost $1.5 billion. The $27 billion is for all capital improvements over the next 10 years.

Anyway. Yes, extending the PATH to EWR sounds fantastic. They should've done it years ago.


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PA also raises revenues from New Yorkers and tourists.


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And Newark. And Harrison. And Jersey City and Hoboken. And anyone who can get to a PATH stop via the Light Rail.

They could still screw it up, of course. But the basic concept is a good one, and long overdue.

Here's an example of the problem with the PA. They're proposing a $27.6 billion plan to extend the PATH to Newark airport. Sounds good right? They'll tax NJ commuters with fare and toll increases to pay for an improved service that simply benefits air travelers getting from their airport to NYC. Not to mention adding to the crush on the PATH.

Dipping into our wallets again for something that is of little benefit to us.


http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... an_woul.html#incart_river

splitting the Port Authority up would be a terrible idea because it would lead back to the old days of undercutting and competition and sabotage that would just cripple the airports, ports, and bridges in the area. Who controls the bridges? Who sets the tolls? It would lead to never-ending fights.

However, I do think the Port Authority has absolutely zero business in the train or real estate business. The WTC should be sold off and the PATH should be turned over to NJTransit or even the MTA.

I agree JCMan8. We are doomed any way we look at it, all three agencies look to be terrible and unresponsive.


How did NY'ers improve the MTA? Is it because MTA's leadership actually ride the subway?

Does anyone at the Port Authority actually take the PATH on a daily basis (let alone pay tunnel tolls)?


Maybe it's the many voices of the passengers.. Perhaps we need a straphanger's campaign. A place "where complaints get results."

I agree the Port Authority is a cesspool for political cronyism and corruption, however I agree with the first comment on your article.

"NJTransit operating the PATH? You mean you want the organization that left hundreds of millions of dollars of train equipment in a flood plain during Hurricane Sandy against all sound recommendations to run the PATH as well?"

Obviously there's zero accountability at NJ Transit for them to make such a stupid decision during Sandy that cost taxpayers hundreds of millions yet no one gets fired.

I thought it would be best if PATH was handed over to the MTA, but this article paints a pretty grim picture of that organization as well.

I don't really know what the solution is but if PATH had 10 minute service on all lines on weekends (instead of reduced Sunday service), I'd be happy.

I read this editorial blog post recently, it sort of lit a fire under my ass.

Maybe in our lifetimes JC'ers will see the demise of our lazy transit captors.

FROM NEXTCITY.ORG :

...The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey has clearly ceased to be an effective agency, and it?s time to consider alternative arrangements. Crain?s suggests splitting it in two. ?Why can?t there be a Port Authority of New York and a Port Authority of New Jersey?? it posits. ?Turning one overly politicized bureaucracy into two smaller bureaucracies would mean a single line of command from governor to grunt. No more multiple masters. A healthier change for all.?

...To return accountability to the critical transportation assets managed by the Port Authority, it?s time to cut off the flow of money. The agency?s lifeblood, its toll revenues, should be returned to a combination of the New Jersey, New York state and New York City general treasuries, to be doled out by their respective legislatures (minus the cost of maintaining the crossings)."

About the MTA and Port Authority,

...The New York region has, in its past, had two wildly successful independent transportation authorities. Over time, they?ve acquired a reputation for poor performance and a grievous lack of political accountability. At their best, they efficiently reflected the policy goals of the personalities who drove them. At their worst ? and the Port Authority, at least, is clearly there ? they have devolved into off-budget slush funds, wasteful and easily politicized. The Port Authority has been corrupted by its riches, and it?s time to give the people of New Jersey and New York their infrastructure back."

Please read the whole thing.