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Re: Navien tankless boiler - experiences?
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Home away from home
 
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Surprised to hear your only experience with a tankless water system was poor. These are very common in some places (my mother has one installed at her place in PR) and it works wonderfully, with the added benefit of saving a lot of money by not having to heat up an entire tank of water. Added bonus: no space lost to a large tank, and less risk to property damage (if the tank dies and leaks). A couple of friends have similar setups and they all rave about efficiency and cost savings.
Posted on: 2015/10/26 20:11
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Re: Navien tankless boiler - experiences?
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Home away from home
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2005/11/12 17:04 Last Login : 5/7 14:26 From Downtown JC, VVP Area
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Agree with Brewster. About the closest you can get to "no power" heating systems is a gas-fueled steam boiler with a pilot light. You still need a SMALL amount of 12v D.C. power for the gas solenoid. This assumes a Mercury Thermostat which requires no power. I remember when I was a teenager living in Ohio in the late 70s we had a HUGE winter blizzard and power lines were down everywhere with no time estimate for restoration. The house was getting cold and my father was worried that we might need to drain all the water pipes in the house before they froze and burst. I studied the setup in the basement and concluded that all I needed was a 12v car battery wired in place of the transformer. Pulled the car battery, hooked it up, and on came the heat. We called a LOT of local neighbors and invited them over. As I recall, the battery lasted for several days. My only experience with tankless water systems was in Europe and I found the flow rate to be pretty low -- not a great shower...
Posted on: 2015/10/25 18:25
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Re: Navien tankless boiler - experiences?
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Home away from home
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That's a fuel, not a system. I have never seen a heat SYSTEM without one or more of the following: thermostats, blowers, circulators, electrically controlled solenoid valves and dampers. A tank water heater is much simpler than a heating system.
Posted on: 2015/10/25 16:54
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Just can't stay away
 
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Thanks for your repsonses and for the HVAC referral.
We were advised by a Plumber/hvac working on Long Island, who has trained with the Navien that the Navien would be great for our needs. He said that we would be able to vent out our chimney, using a pvc sleeve. We're a bit hesitant for a couple of reasons. We have very limited space in our home and have hopes of switching from baseboards to a combo of low profile radiators and radiant heat. This would require two zones and possibly a tempering valve. the space where our heating/water appliances is small, so we'd like to choose carefully. PSE&G gave us an estimate on a traditional Wells McClain with a hot water tank During Sandy we did loose our heat, which is currently provided by gas via a Paloma Pac with electric heat pumb. When we lost the electric we lost our heat, but still had hot water, since we have a separate gas hot water heater. So, we do realize switching to the Navien would mean we would face loosing both heat and hot water. Our Paloma Pac is actually pretty good: it's compact--hangs on the wall, but it is from 1981 and we have had no luck finding anyone willing to service it.
Posted on: 2015/10/25 13:36
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Re: Navien tankless boiler - experiences?
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Gas
Posted on: 2015/10/25 9:03
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Get on your bikes and ride !
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Re: Navien tankless boiler - experiences?
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Home away from home
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Quote:
What heat system functions at all without power?
Posted on: 2015/10/25 2:27
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Re: Navien tankless boiler - experiences?
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Home away from home
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i ask someone from pseg about these things and he did not recommend tankless. i forget what he said exactly, but he was pretty clear about sticking with the traditional stuff.
also, unless you have piezo ignition, you might not have any hot water or heat if the power goes out - think sandra
Posted on: 2015/10/24 23:10
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Re: Navien tankless boiler - experiences?
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Home away from home
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You're asking very specific stuff that is unlikely to get a hit here. Try heatinghelp.com. I can recommend a good heat guy who's up on new tech, but whether he's familiar with this device I can't say.
Joe Starosielec j.star@thatcherhvac.com thatcherhvac.com 732-494-HELP (4357) Can you really get the venting that unit needs in an old house? Most of those things need big holes directly through an exterior wall, not a chimney.
Posted on: 2015/10/24 17:57
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Navien tankless boiler - experiences?
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Just can't stay away
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We are considering installing a Navien NCB-240 tankless combi-boiler in our 100+ year old row house which currently has a 30+ year old boiler and a 10-year-old water heater, in a very tight closet.
1. Does anyone have any experiences, positive or negative, with this brand or this model? 2. We currently have baseboard heating but are considering adding radiant to 2 of our 3 floors, perhaps at a later date. Navien touts this model's compatibility with both systems in their literature. Anyone have experience with either/both? 3. I'd love to hear any experiences with this brand's functionality as a water heater. 4. Also, I'm curious as to how this brand/model holds up in dealing with JC water. 5. Can anyone recommend an HVAC contractor that has extensive experience with this brand?
Posted on: 2015/10/24 14:07
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Home away from home
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Look, you're talking about spending a LOT of money for the original idea, maybe there's much simpler solutions. How many gallon is the water heater, what is it set at, is there a tempering valve, and how many people live in the building? It The problem may be as simple as the temp is set to tap temp (~115) rather than being set to 140 and installing a tempering valve to cool it as it leaves the tank. This gives much more hot water, and is considered safer since 140 is too high for Legionella bacteria to live.
Posted on: 2013/10/29 17:24
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Home away from home
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Go downstairs and break the water heater. Then the board will agree with your recommendation.
Posted on: 2013/10/29 16:54
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Home away from home
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Try the local SEARS and Home Depot. They probably have what you need, can give you advice and can do the installation for you.
Posted on: 2013/10/29 16:29
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Home away from home
Joined:
2012/9/18 3:58 Last Login : 2021/9/23 15:07 From Between Thought and Expression
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Quote:
Welcome to the USA, Atushi. In this country many people of all ethnicities enjoy hot baths! Try a low tech solution. On your stove boil water in large pots and perhaps use an electric tea kettle. Fill the tub with hot tap water, until the hot water is used up, then add the hot water from the stove/electric water kettle to the tub. Fill the rest with lukewarm water. Boil more water as needed. Perhaps if you can increase the frequency of your baths, thus exhausting the limited supply of hot water in your building, your neighbors will eventually share your pain and upgrade the central hot water heater. I suggest you take the hot baths early in the morning during peak use - 7AM. Getting a tankless heater to supplement the building's hot water is not practical or advisable.
Posted on: 2013/10/29 16:17
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Home away from home
Joined:
2008/6/5 10:12 Last Login : 2016/11/8 21:51 From Jersey City
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I did consider that, but when I asked other unit owners, no one seems to be annoyed by this. So I'm not optimistic about convincing everyone to get a bigger or more efficient water heater. I know for long term, it's going to save everyone money though.... maybe it's worth asking the board again. Thanks, Atsushi
Posted on: 2013/10/29 14:27
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Home away from home
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I?m stating the obvious, but the hot water heater is undersized for load in the building. Do you think there?s a chance your neighbors would entertain the idea of purchasing and installing an appropriately sized hot water heater? Assuming the piping isn?t also terribly undersized, it could be the simplex fix, and it would benefit all of you.
Posted on: 2013/10/29 14:17
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Home away from home
Joined:
2008/6/5 10:12 Last Login : 2016/11/8 21:51 From Jersey City
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Quote:
Thanks everyone for commenting. The condo building has a hot water tank in the basement (I'm on the first floor). I don't know how exactly it works, but someone said that it's a very inefficient system. When too many people take a shower at the same time when the heater is not ON, it can run out of hot water pretty quickly. It doesn't happen every morning, but it has happened enough to make me annoyed. But that's not really the primary reason for wanting a backup. I'm Japanese, and I would like to be able to take a hot bath. Just relying on the hot water from the tank, I can only fill the tub about a half, and while it's almost sufficient for me to take a soak in it, when I want to add hot water in order to raise the temperature of the water, all it comes out is cold water. Ideally, I would like to put a heater and a water pump and make a real Japanese style bath, but that would be expensive. The alternative is to have a reliable source of hot water in my unit (in the bathroom)--an electrical tankless water heater. I would imagine that some electrical work would be required in addition to plumbing work, and that's why I was wondering someone who can take care of both at the same time. Atsushi
Posted on: 2013/10/29 14:02
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Home away from home
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Can I assume this unit would be for your apartment only and will be placed there? In that case you would be in for some major wiring work, that heater would likely need a 50-75 amp 220 circuit like a range does.
Why not fix the building's water heater? it's not rocket science. Indirect tanks working off boilers are more efficient than regular heaters. Most of the inefficiencies of tanks is standby losses, having more people using the same sources reduces this, as does the indirect tank having no flue for constant losses up the pipe.
Posted on: 2013/10/29 0:19
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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I've used them for hot water and for heating hot water base board radiators. They are really quick and safe. You can turn them off and have hot water almost immediately when you turn it back on. I really want one for the top floor of my house - I now wait about 5 minutes for the hot water from the basement.
I'm not sure if these are cost effective as 'back-up' You might have to replumb the apartment or at least merge the two systems in a way that would allow you to stop the building water at some point when it is being precarious. I would also make sure that your plumber has experience in installing these. Also, you need to find out about permits and inspections. PSEG might have information.
Posted on: 2013/10/28 22:53
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Home away from home
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I don't have a tankless water heater, but know someone that does, and they SWEAR by it. What I have heard is that it provides near instant hot water, without the risk of a tank leaking, or flooding your place, and it saves quite a bit on electrical bills.
Since I don't personally own one such water heater, take this as nothing more than hearsay and poppycock. :) But, seriously, I have heard good things about them. Someone else might have first hand knowledge and be able to chime in more authoritatively.
Posted on: 2013/10/28 22:05
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Home away from home
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Atsushi, Do you currently have a hot water heater with a tank in your condo that you're replacing, or are you actually adding a second water heater? Just curious as to what you mean by a "backup system." Asking because I also have a tanked hot water heater and was also considering switching over to an electric tankless one. I'd be interested in hearing about other people's experiences with electric tankless hot water heaters in condos, both in their effectiveness and cost savings.
Posted on: 2013/10/28 21:51
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Home away from home
Joined:
2012/1/11 18:21 Last Login : 2019/12/26 15:30 From GV Bayside Park
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Royal Heating and Cooling.
10 Martin Luther King Jr Dr Jersey City (201) 434-0315 I have used them twice and both times it was excellent.
Posted on: 2013/10/28 21:06
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Re: Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Not too shy to talk
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Manfred Tschopp Heating and Air Conditioning
110 Birchwood Ter Clifton, NJ 07012 (973) 779-3112 I used him two years ago and had a very good experience. He was very honest and his prices were very reasonable.
Posted on: 2013/10/28 21:03
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Electric Tankless Water Heater
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Home away from home
Joined:
2008/6/5 10:12 Last Login : 2016/11/8 21:51 From Jersey City
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Hello,
We live in a condo building, and the hot water in the building is precarious. So we are thinking of getting an electric tankless water heater as a backup system. Are there any contractor in Jersey City that can do this job? Thanks in advance, Atsushi
Posted on: 2013/10/28 19:14
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