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Re: The futility of gun control
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and now, a little bit of humor: this little guy should never be allowed to own a gun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU v=GhxqIITtTtU
Posted on: 2013/7/31 13:37
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Boris you were definately born in the wrong era - As a child it would seem you have watched too many western movies and John Wayne must of been a major hero for you in those westerns.
Your propaganda to selectively pick and chose snippets of information to push your cause is no different to the propaganda often pushed by your country of origin (yes, we in the US also push propaganda to pursuit a cause) If you read the article you failed to include the following: "Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Margaret Chan has sided with the city, noting that there was no evidence the cops were aware Lozito was in danger at the time" "Chan did however, note the heroism of Lozito's actions: "The dismissal of this lawsuit does not lessen Mr. Lozito?s bravery or the pain of his injuries," she wrote in her decision yesterday. "Mr. Lozito heroically maneuvered the knife away from Gelman and subdued him on the subway floor" "Gelman was eventually arrested by the transit officers" As you and I were not in the Court room, could it be that Lozito was gung ho in his behavoir ? Was he about to be a victim ? Was he acting on the appearance of the knife that might not of been directed at him ? The end result was that the cops did arrest him at the end. All you have achieved is to have this thread back in the spotlight and near the top of the threads. Personally I think you should seek counselling to help with your fear of anarchy and lawlessness. Maybe yoiu should look into building an underground bunker, stock up with supplies and arm yourself to to the teeth - obviously your fear and need to arm yourself is the primary focus of your life ..... There is a town in Georgia that mandates everyone in their township be armed and I hear the cost of housing is cheap also! http://rt.com/usa/gun-control-us-nelson-obama-nra-207/ PS, You would be the first guy I would request mental health testing to acquire a gun license
Posted on: 2013/7/30 3:44
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Honestly, I think they ARE the only game in town...
Years ago, my wife started an all-woman gun club in NYC who shot for fun. Not to be gun nuts or anything, just for fun. Eventually, she became qualified to be an NRA Marksmanship Instructor... BUT, along the way, their meetings/meet ups/fun shoots, started getting people showing up from the NRA, and then, Young Republican groups... who began preaching about really extreme and political views.... My wife and her cohorts were so turned off, they disbanded the club because they didn't want to be associated with that rhetoric....
Posted on: 2013/7/30 3:24
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Subway Stabbing Victim Can't Sue NYPD For Failing To Save Him: "A man who was brutally stabbed by Brooklyn subway slasher Maksim Gelman two years ago had his negligence case against the city dismissed in court yesterday, despite the fact that two transit officers had locked themselves in a motorman's car only a few feet from him at the time of the attack. ... The city, meanwhile, claimed that the NYPD had no "special duty" to intervene at the time, and that they were in the motorman's car because they believed Gelman had a gun."
So, anyone wants to argue that we should leave defending our lives to the professionals?
Posted on: 2013/7/30 2:06
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Personally, I wouldn't shoot anyone that's breaking into my car and stealing it's contents. This is New Jersey, you go to jail for that.
But consider this: http://www.wlox.com/story/22825755/ja ... kills-car-burglar-suspect "JACKSON, MS (Mississippi News Now) - A car burglary suspect was shot and killed after the homeowner reportedly discovered the 20-year-old man breaking into the homeowner's vehicle... ...Authorities confirmed that the homeowner would not face any charges and that the shooting was justified under Mississippi?s Castle Doctrine Law." Why is there no outrage? it's a black on black shooting, and the local Police Chief is also African-American. The media and politicians stoke the issue with race so they can get coverage. Quote:
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Posted on: 2013/7/24 23:46
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Gun control works wonders for the guys committing the crimes. See recent robbery example in JC:
Note important parts of the story: 1. People with the guns doing the robbery & own them illegally. More laws don't take the guns out of their hands. 2. The victims didn't have guns, and would have to wait a long time to get one legally, if ever. 3. If the victims had guns, the two wonderful assailants would "know what time it was" I wonder what would have happened in Florida? Charles Hack/The Jersey Journal Two men were held up at gunpoint and robbed in Jersey City early this morning, police reports said. Police were called to Kennedy Boulevard and Glenwood Avenue near St. Peter's University at 2:45 a.m. Sunday on the report of a robbery, police said. On arrival police met a 25-year-old Jersey City resident and a 27-year old Newburgh, NY, resident who said they were robbed while walking south on Kennedy Boulevard approaching Glenwood Avenue, reports said. The victims said two men approached them and said ?You know what time it is? when one of them pointed a silver and black semi-automatic handgun at them. reports said. The robbers took an iPhone, a credit card and $5 in cash from one victim and an iPhone and $10 in cash from the second man and then fled, reports said.
Posted on: 2013/7/15 17:29
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Those were not valid points, - there were numerous examples of cherry-picking the data, failure to use multivariate analysis, failure to distinguish correlation from causation and other obvious logical errors. I pointed out each, and explained what is wrong with it. Quote:
Well, I was taught so called "critical thinking". And that means, when I see something illogical, or a childish error in statistics, or an obvious cherry-picking of the data, - I call it as I see it.
Posted on: 2013/7/15 2:14
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It's a Blog - meaning the blogger is trying to advance an opinion, in this case, by cherry-picking statistics and studies that fit his argument.
#9 is particularly interesting - Vermont. In VT one can carry open, or concealed - there are no laws that prohibit residents from carrying their firearms with them. Okay, no suppressors and Burlington prohibits full-auto: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Vermont very low numbers Quote:
Posted on: 2013/7/14 3:26
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Once again you critique the information based on your own personal opinion that experts in the field have researched via the data presented. You then totally ignore valid points made and consider your point of view as gospel.
You appear to display all the behavioral traits of a Sherman Tank! It might be worth your time to write to the Washington Post and let them know that their journalist is ill-informed and that you personally, should write for them with your facts and figures ? Ps - The note to 'maturity' refers to age on my previous comment. Here is something else to critique - Sherman Tank character trait The Sherman Tank needs to be right and will plow over people to prove a point. They are arrogant and will attack not just your idea, project, or program but patronize you as well. The most important aspect of coping with Sherman Tanks is to stand up for yourself. If you don't, they will see you as a person they don't need to pay any attention to -- you will fade into oblivion as far as they are concerned. If they confront you with yelling or crying, hold your ground and give them time to lose momentum (they will), and then get into the situation. You may have to interrupt Sherman Tanks to get into the conversation because they are not likely to pause to give you the chance. To get their attention, say their name in a loud, clear voice. Try to get your Sherman Tank to sit down because people seated are less likely to be aggressive. Next, present your own point of view, in an assertive fashion, by using phrases such as "In my opinion..."; "I disagree with you..." In this way, you are not telling the Sherman Tank what to do, but rather you are expressing your opinions. In a meeting, Sherman Tanks are likely to show disinterest in what is being discussed if they are not in support of it. These people will read something else, fidget in their chair and will make it very clear to everyone this topic is a waste of time. They may even interrupt discussion with a statement like "What's next on the agenda?" If this happens, while you are chairing the meeting, don't let the balance of power swing to the Sherman Tank. If you give in to the Sherman Tank, whatever was being discussed will be tabled forever and the group's respect will vanish. Suggest to the Sherman Tank that the group feels this item is important (otherwise it wouldn't be on the agenda) and the discussion will continue. Remind Sherman Tanks they can participate in the discussion and present their side of the issue. Once involved in the discussion, the Sherman Tank may become highly argumentative. Remember to control your temper -- if you remain calm, it's likely the rest of the group will too. Try to find merit in one of his/her points, express your agreement and move on to others. If the Sherman Tank makes an incorrect statement, toss it out to the group and let them turn it down.
Posted on: 2013/7/13 14:53
Edited by fat-ass-bike on 2013/7/13 15:11:48
Edited by fat-ass-bike on 2013/7/13 15:13:16 |
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Quote:
Sorry, but no. 1. First, when you present "FACTS", you present sources and data. Consider the first claim that most guns were obtained legally. If you go to the original Mother Jones article and read the short explanation under this bullet point, - you'd find no link to any data. Instead there are some words about the types of guns that were used. 2. Second, when you present "no personal opinions, no myths, no theories, no beliefs .... JUST THE FACTS", you present all of them, not just the ones you think prove your point. Like, in this case, where is a graph "This is how many mass murders happened in a gun-free zone"? Where is a graph "This is a correlation between the frequency of mass murders and gun-control score given to a state by the Brady Campaign"? Where is the fact "Majority of people violently killed in the XX century were killed by their governments"? Where is the fact "not one of the governments that killed its own citizens by the millions was a US government"? 3. Third, when you present "FACTS", you do not make judgement calls, like "America is unusually violent country". As I said, compare America to most countries in Europe or Asia for the last 100 years and calculate the total number of violent deaths (without conveniently forgetting to add those murdered by the governments), - and the picture will be quite different from this claim. 4. Fourth, when you present "FACTS", you do not make kindergarten-level mistakes in presenting statistics. Like, when something depends on many variables, you do not just look at one of them, and say "Majority of that happens in the US"! You got to split it by demographics, from income level and education to how recently people immigrated, and so on. Second example here, - you do not mistake correlation for causation. "Most guns correlated with most murder!" Yeah, and most consumption of insulin correlated with the most cases of diabetes, - doesn't mean insulin causes diabetes. Or, if you look at the battlefields of Europe you can proclaim that wearing khaki clothes correlates with high death probability! Making primitive errors like this proves ignorance and totally destroys credibility of any "FACTS" collection. Quote:
May I ask you, - in your mind, is there any difference between having a "right" like that and not having any "right"? For example "you need to ask the government for permission, and you can be refused at will", - describes both cases equally well. Quote:
Felony criminal history means that someone was deprived of his right to bear arms after he was found guilty in a Court of Law. Following what is called a "Due Process". You look at this, and in the same sentence you propose that we should prove our maturity in order to be allowed to exercise a Right. No "Due Process", no Law, - just everyone is considered guilty until they prove they are innocent. Mixing things up like this shows total lack of understanding of what Rights are.
Posted on: 2013/7/13 12:50
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/w ... ngs-in-the-united-states/
If you read the link it is based on no personal opinions, no myths, no theories, no beliefs .... JUST THE FACTS AND FIGURES to you to contemplate. My personal belief is that gun ownership should be a 'Right'; but a 'Right' based on a privilege as driving a car which is discrimination free from who can apply for a license that requires a prospective motorist to pass a test. Gun ownership should be based on your absence of a felony criminal history but more importantly your mental health state and maturity. Once you pass, buy what you legally can. At present we have no mental health checks and history shows that its not criminals that cause the mass murders of the innocent, but rather those with mental or emotional health problems.
Posted on: 2013/7/13 11:07
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Quote:
Frank_M wrote: Well, first, I did answer. Second, I was perfectly aware that you did not aks the question to advance your argment, but only to score a cheap personal shot. Quote: fat-ass-bike wrote: Well, yeah. Luckily, I am not trying to enlist into some form of employment. I am just enjoying my Rights. So, if you want to make the case that you can to take away some of my rights, you got to go through something called "due process". You can't ask me to prove to you that I deserve those rights. By the way, would your support mandatory psych exam for a person who holds his finger on the nuclear button? Do you think we should ask Obama to undergo the evaluation? I mean, - presidency is not a right, it is, yet another employment. And in this case specifically, - he was a friend of an unrepentant terrorist Ayers...
Posted on: 2013/7/13 3:43
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He was placed on light duty January, surrendered his weapon and underwent 6 months of psychotherapy and in July was pronounced fit for regular duty.
Makes sense, so by most standards, one can undergo rehab and eventually get a permit to obtain firearms. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/7/12 13:36
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http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opin ... misc_actions/a0427-10.pdf
Pages 9 and 10 make for good reading - gun control / psych testing on demand
Posted on: 2013/7/12 6:38
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Re: The futility of gun control
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You would get a group of psychologists to create the test - ALL prospective soldiers do a psych test, as do Police and most emergency services personnel - The military don't just hand over guns to anyone that enlists.....they have checks and balances. If you do get into the military or emergency services, anyone above you in the chain of command can recommend some-one for a 'refresher' psych test and the person in question can't say no ..... even some corporate companies are doing it if they discover or believe they have a 'corporate psychopath' in their rank and file.
One of the biggest problems with training afghan soldiers is that command aren't doing the safety checks on mental health and psych testing when afghans enlist and turning on american trainers and support soldiers Quote:
Posted on: 2013/7/12 3:53
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Don't sweat it borisp, I'm only asking the question to show that you won't answer it. Thanks for playing.
Posted on: 2013/7/12 3:32
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Actually, I am doing much better job than you do. You prefer to make your position as vague as possible. I explained that you have but two choices, and what follows from each. Quote: You still didn?t address how a gun could help you in response to your government?s intrusions. In the traditional American way. I presume you know the history of the country? Quote: Intent, design, and classical expectations do indeed count. When a object is designed to be highly effective for a specific purpose, the intent is that it will be more effective for that purpose than any other object. Well, the guns are most effective in target practice, in hunting and in defense. For a criminal a gun is not all that critical, since it is the criminal who chooses when and where to attack. So, they can use clubs, they can use surprise, they can attack as a gang and so on. Quote: We can see that weapons such as firearms are involved in murder at a far higher rate than objects which are not designed as weapons. In fact, firearms are used in most cases of homicide in the United States. Most drownings happen in the swimming pools. Most accidental deaths are traffic related. Were we to use your logic, we'd have to conclude that the purpose of the swimming pool is to drown, and a purpose of a car is to create accidents. Quote: Guns don?t just ?exist? in America, we promote and pursue them with extraordinary zeal in a manner not seen in any of our peer nations, to the point that it might be accurate to call it a fetish. You can say the exact same thing about our freedom of speech. I fail to see how it follows that there must be something wrong with it.
Posted on: 2013/7/12 2:45
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There you go again borisp, presuming to speak for me and doing a bad job of it. You still didn?t address how a gun could help you in response to your government?s intrusions. Intent, design, and classical expectations do indeed count. When a object is designed to be highly effective for a specific purpose, the intent is that it will be more effective for that purpose than any other object. (You don?t brush your teeth with your socks after all.) We can see that weapons such as firearms are involved in murder at a far higher rate than objects which are not designed as weapons. In fact, firearms are used in most cases of homicide in the United States. Guns don?t just ?exist? in America, we promote and pursue them with extraordinary zeal in a manner not seen in any of our peer nations, to the point that it might be accurate to call it a fetish.
Posted on: 2013/7/10 14:05
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Frank_M wrote: Simple. Take what you see now, and multiply. Not just reading everyone's emails, but requiring licenses and permits for having email accounts in the first place. Government licensing for the journalists, severe restrictions on what they can publish, and prohibition for everyone else. Government registration of all printers and a law that every printed page must be micro-stamped with when, where and by whom it was printed. Mandatory job assignments for students, if there are shortages in some unpopular fields. Strict limits on consumption, earnings, prices, - both up and down. Govenment allocations for the industry - what to produce, how much and at what price to deliver. Prohibitive taxes on any activity that is disliked by the goverment. As I said, - same things that creep in slowly now, will speed up as an avalanche. By the way, you sounds as if you wanted to claim that it would be unjustifiably paranoid to suspect those things may happen. Despite everything that happens everyay. Quote: Baseball bats, kitchen knives, and gasoline are weapons only when used in a manner inconsistent with their intent. On the other hand, firearms are weapons by design. Intent? Are you kidding me? WHOSE intent? Things don't have God-given Destiny. Is it an intent of a manufacturer? Is it an intent of a user? Is it an intent as in "the only use that Frank_M associates with this item according to his own prejudices"? The manufacturer of a baseball bat may think he is making something to play sports, - but it becomes a tool of murder in the hands of a gang member attacking his rival. Baseball bats are quite popular in Russia, yet nobody there plays baseball, what do you think they are used for? The manufacturer of an AR15 rifle may think he is making something for target practice, or hunting, or self-defense, - and then the ATF sells it to Mexican drug cartel to be used to murder police officers in some town. Whose intent counts in that logic of yours? Quote: Frank_M wrote: I fail to see the delicate difference between those statements. Either you attribute the violence to the very existence of guns, or you don't. If it is the former, my objections stands. If it is the latter, than you can't talk about "facilitation".
Posted on: 2013/7/10 1:03
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Precise definition of "nutters", please?
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Posted on: 2013/7/9 16:43
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We already pay taxes for the government to impose law and order, and we have health and life insurance to assist in the event of injury and death.
It's not like healthcare insurance where everyone will eventually need it - there are millions of gun owners who will never have an accident or commit a crime. What you are proposing is placing a burden on people who have no connection to criminal or negligent activity. It's discriminatory in nature and it will never pass. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/7/9 16:40
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So blame the criminals for not manning up and being accountable and responsible? It's the victim's problem when a gun goes off in their face, and the taxpayer gets the bill?
Posted on: 2013/7/9 15:54
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You know what? I'll say it again - criminals won't buy gun insurance! They wont follow the laws - which means every legal/law abiding gun owner will be paying for criminals.
Where's the logic in that ? unless you just hate guns and don't want anyone to own them. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/7/9 15:43
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Again, can you share your explicit views of how the actions of a tyrannical American government would manifest themselves, and what your possession of a firearm, or firearms, could accomplish in response to that threat? Please don?t be shy, spell it out. If it?s that worrisome an issue, do your part and spread the knowledge. Quote:
Baseball bats, kitchen knives, and gasoline are weapons only when used in a manner inconsistent with their intent. On the other hand, firearms are weapons by design. They can be used for other purposes, but they are powerful, effective, compact, easy-to-use weapons. Additionally, because of their great effectiveness at range, they permit users to physically and psychologically distance themselves from conflict and the traumatic nature of the resulting injuries. They are uniquely potent weapons, which is demonstrated by their widespread use as such throughout the world, and it makes their potential for misuse all the more concerning. Quote:
In spite of your repeated insistence on speaking for me, I did not claim that guns provoke violence. I wrote that the widespread manufacture, distribution, and marketing of powerful handheld weapons in America is part of the equation of gun violence, not unlike drug industries and their problem children. Baseball bats don?t make people play baseball, but you can?t have a baseball game without one. You can?t shoot anybody without a gun either?and that?s what we?re talking about, guns?not sports, cutlery, or fuel. Sure, almost anything can used be as a weapon, but since that includes so many things, we could do ourselves a favor by concentrating on the abuse of devices that are weapons in the first place. There are many additional catalysts that serve to focus our energies into creating the American gun problem, but many of them are unique to our society, making comparisons to a nation like Switzerland misleading and inaccurate. America is not Switzerland and Americans are not Swiss. Our problem is uniquely ours and we?ve put a lot of work into not only creating it, but also maintaining it through semantics, dogma, and just playing flat-out dumb.
Posted on: 2013/7/9 15:40
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Criminals and NUTTERS are two different species - NUTTERS with guns do far more damage.
Graffitists and taggers are also different species - TAGGERS also do far more damage. Control who gets the gun or spray can can't be wrong if it mitigates damage ! Even the NRA state that guns don't kill !
Posted on: 2013/7/9 14:20
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Because for the same reason the nutters should not be allowed to have children.
Posted on: 2013/7/9 13:56
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Get on your bikes and ride !
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If the military will not allow nutters to handle weapons, why should society allow nutters to own a weapon?
Posted on: 2013/7/9 13:50
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God forbid we hold gun owners accountable and responsible for anything. Let the taxpayers and victims pay the bill, and call it a price of freedom.
Posted on: 2013/7/9 13:33
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Well, unbeknownst to you, NJ is a very anti-gun state with almost universal prohibition on concealed carry. You want to compare with a free carry state, - look no further than Vermont. They allow it all and do not even require a permit. Second, have you noticed that the USA is second longest running government? We managed to have the same political system, with peaceful transfer of power to the newly elected officials for more than two centuries. Have you ever asked yourself, well, - WHY? What makes us (and the Swiss) special in this noticeable way?
Posted on: 2013/7/9 12:52
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/13 18:42 Last Login : 2022/2/28 7:31 From 280 Grove Street
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
4192
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The one's causing drama are those loyal and benefitted by the previous knucklehead - If everyone was armed they'd be shooting each other! By the way we have more murders in NJ then the people killed by egyptian radicals. Maybe we should export gun lobbists from the US to Egypt .... It would be fantastic for the gun industry and shareholders!
Posted on: 2013/7/9 6:00
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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