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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Newbie
 
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2012/11/14 20:24 Last Login : 2015/5/28 21:45 From jersey city
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My understanding is that it's not how long you've owned the property that creates the discrepancy since a sale in JC doesn't trigger an assessment/reval (that's called a rolling reval and it exists in other states, mostly on the west coast).
If we use the example of 2 adjacent "identical" townhouses: One purchased and held since 1985 and the other in 2007, but both in the same condition - meaning there were no improvements in either property that triggered a reassessment via legal permitting - then their assessed value has stayed the same since the last reval, that's the whole problem. My condo didn't exist during the last reval. The JC Tax assessor can assess a value on new housing stock - seemingly out of whole cloth, a process which should also seriously by examined since no one can explain what goes into the formula. Why is it so hard to figure out a rational assessment for existing housing stock? We bought in 2007. These are what the numbers looks like: sold: $590K size: 2b/2b, 1000 sq ft tax: 2012 $13K in taxes until I filed an appeal which brought them down to $10K On a related note, hasn't Hoboken just ordered a reval? Their last one was in 1988. http://hoboken411.com/archives/93292 Dawn Zimmer is getting heat from her constituents for not taking action on the reval sooner.
Posted on: 2013/6/27 1:06
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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That's really beside the point isn't it? When does a tax assessment change then? Only when the city does a reval? What about for construction permits and improvements? In the burbs you build a pool and wack! Your taxes are higher!
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Posted on: 2013/6/27 0:46
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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You're not correct on this score. the assessment does not appear to change with a sale, no matter what the price. Go to a search site and look at the records. What has created the disparity are new construction, varying rates of appreciating value, and tax appeals. Yvonne said that she and all her neighbors on York assessed at 1/3 of many other residents appealed right after the 88 reval.
Posted on: 2013/6/27 0:42
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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The freeloaders aren't the downtowners or non-downtowners in this case. They are the homeowners that for whatever reason have owned for 20 or so years and never been reassessed. They are paying taxes on the value of their home as determined 20 years ago. For example: Say I bought a property in JC worth 500k in the past 5-7 years. I am most likely paying taxes on a value of the full amount of 500k value which would amount to approx $8000 a year. My neighbor bought his place 20 years ago for 250k and has paid approx $4000 a year in taxes on that 250K value for the past 20 years.
Both properties today would sell for 500k. How is that fair that he still pays $4000 while I pay $8000? If the reval were to go through the city total property tax collected would, in theory, stay the same. I don't know what it is but say it's 15 million. Since that number won't change barring a percentage increase by the city, his taxes will go up to 6000K and my taxes will go down to $6000 as the percent rate will be lowered overall. Same original amount collected by the city but instead it's evenly spread out over the current value of all the properties. I understand that people who haven't been revalued in a long time are dreading this but believe me I can't afford to pay your bills anymore and it's unfair, un-American and flatly selfish that anyone really thinks this is ok. I hope the county and the state step in to make this happen. I think some letters to the right people may be in order. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/6/27 0:14
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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While you're throwing around numbers, try these:
2012 sale $295k-tax $9910. 2004 sale $385k, (now worth $330 or so)- tax $8580. 296 8th St Sold on 5/21/13: $999,999- tax $7,946 See why I'm all for the reval?
Posted on: 2013/6/26 21:41
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Here's what I found in Manalapan: 259 Shinnecock (Sold in 2010 for 372k) Taxes 6,378 19 Deerfield (2012 399k) Taxes 7,814 Montclair: 307 N Fullerton (6/7/12 430k) Taxes $18,291 I don't feel like doing too many so ... JC 333 7th sold 6/4/2013 for $499k - Taxes $5,028 339 Eight Sold 5/2/13 for $637k Taxes $6,824 The problem with JC isn't universally high taxes is that it hasn't been revealed in forever so lots of places are paying less than they should, which means new places that have real valuations wind up paying more than they should. Sounds like you're getting screwed. I checked out Hoboken (first place I clicked) with a reasonabl-ish price 626 Grand (5/15/12 - $410k) $6555 taxes.
Posted on: 2013/6/26 21:03
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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You are picking two of the most notoriously highly taxed towns in NJ. I picked some random NJ towns with better schools than JC (quite easy). In my search I included properties about 15k more and less than what I paid for my condo. My taxes are about $6200. In: Manalapan $4677 East Brunswick $6000 Clark $5267 Roseland $4743 Parsippany $4100 OK. So those places aren't in Hudson County. Granted, one place I had a lot of trouble was Bergen County. So let's take a look at some Hudson towns. Secaucus $5024 Union City $4494 Bayonne $4743 And yet, I'm in a PILOT building so I'm supposedly living the high life? In my talks with the assessor I could exit PILOT...and my taxes would STILL be higher than every town I listed besides East Brunswick. Bayonne and Secaucus are not Manalapan and East Brunswick but they still have better schools than JC. And I won't get into how much less people in Hoboken pay. While I am cogniscent of the amenities of JC over these places, a big fat ZERO of them have anything to do with town services...proximity to the city, walkability, PATH access....no BUT we do get the JCPA and countless other "authorities"...and who can forget the six figure parachutes for all of our public employees? That's something we can hang our hats on! I do understand the sacrifice you'd be making by moving to some of these other places. No hip places like Montclair on the list, you say. My sneering friends will be loathe to see me and my mini van and the chirping crickets in Manalapan, you protest. Montclair: $4892 Red Bank $4371 Princeton $4903 .... I love JC and I'm not leaving. But I'm staying in spite of the city's functioning, and not accepting it. We ALL pay too much. Just because people in Essex and Bergen pay more, doesn't mean that one day if any of us decamps for the burbs full of kids that we won't get better schools for much lower taxes. And I'd submit that you could get better NYC access in other counties.
Posted on: 2013/6/26 20:18
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Just can't stay away
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The lawyer I contacted about an appeal advised me not to do it this year.
I agree with the poster who said it's unlikely that a reval would lower my taxes...but one can hope.
Posted on: 2013/6/26 18:14
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Sorry, but just so people don't get even more confused than they already are, I'm going to nitpick. No one pays a different "rate". They pay the same rate on their assessment x multiplier. It's the assessments that vary wildly, not the rate. The common sense approach IS the reval! Get the values right and fairness follows. But right now, often the wealthiest residents pay the least tax on the real value of their properties. Don't leave it at what you've heard, take a few minutes and look at the taxes of any properties you're familiar with both nearby and across town, you'll see for yourself.
Posted on: 2013/6/26 17:50
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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I have heard reports of people paying markedly different rates with similar properties right next to each other...but I would hope there is a common sense way to approach this by raising everyone's taxes a little bit more and drastically scaling back the tex the outliers pay
Posted on: 2013/6/26 17:21
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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This is exactly the reason why the whole reval system is broken. If properties were revalued at transfer or at least every 10 years, the taxable base would rise with inflation, and the "rate" would stay the same to bring in the same inflation adjusted dollars. But most properties are assessed at roughly a 1/3 of their market value, this varying wildly, creating the whole messy voodoo of the "multiplier" used to try and adjust the actual taxes. So this whole thing gets so broken that the actual rate is raised to fix budget holes, and we know that rates never go down. Don't trust me that it's all broken, look at the taxes of any building or condo yourself. Lots of modest houses worth $3-400K all over JC are paying similar $9-12k taxes to $1m houses downtown. This is a govt site to search http://tax1.co.monmouth.nj.us/cgi-bin ... istrict=0906&ms_user=monm, or just use zillow or trulia. Any property in zillow's database has the current taxes that they scrape from the public database, and all the sites show the last sale price, unless it wasn't an arms length deal.
Posted on: 2013/6/26 15:48
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
Joined:
2012/1/11 18:21 Last Login : 2019/12/26 15:30 From GV Bayside Park
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This is just a song a dance, I don't believe the hype.
Posted on: 2013/6/26 15:20
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Costs go up...When is the last tiem you went to your boss and told him not to raise your salary? When did you tell your boss that he could make your job more efficient by making you do more work and firing somebody else?
Posted on: 2013/6/26 13:32
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Its a brave move for Fulop. He could have sat back and allowed it to run its course and if people felt the process was flawed, he could have said it was a holdover from the last administration. Which it was. Now he is going to "own" it and be responsible regardless of the political fallout and I think this shows a lot of character since he must know some people will blame him personally when the taxes go up.
Posted on: 2013/6/26 13:19
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Why would you want taxes to go up?
Quote: I think that taxes need to go up, although I agree they are high already relative to NYC which has abnormally low taxes thanks to corporations.
Posted on: 2013/6/26 13:18
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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I think that taxes need to go up, although I agree they are high already relative to NYC which has abnormally low taxes thanks to corporations.
I think the reval should proceed with some type of cap put on the maximum increase...
Posted on: 2013/6/26 12:59
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Many great points -- and we agree that Fulop is doing the right thing!
Posted on: 2013/6/26 12:51
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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This is was the one issue that nearly kept me from voting at all on election day. I really wish Fulop would clarify whether he believes in the principle of a reval and whether the reval would resume once the kinks in methodology are worked out.
Posted on: 2013/6/26 12:17
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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This is total BS. I agree with Fulop on 99% of issues. In fact, this is really the only one a can remember not agreeing with him on but it's a biggie. This is a kick in the face to people who have bought property in the city during the last 6-7 years. (Exception for PILOT properties, you made a deal and your stuck with that agreement.)
This is completely unfair to people who pay on the full value of their property. You know what Fulop? I can't afford to pay the taxes either, do I get a deal? Are you going to lower my assessment based on the % of the total value the average property owner is actually assessed at? That would be more fair. I am a Democrat through and through but this really helps me understand why Republicans think Democrats are a bunch of Communist wealth redistributors.
Posted on: 2013/6/26 11:55
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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I don't know where you get that impression, but the LAW says that's not the way it's done. The final take of taxes has to be the same as before. I've heard that many people thought what you said is so because they raised the rate at the same time as the reval, so fewer people saw an actual decrease than should have even though their "relative" taxes went down. But rate increase is a separate issue from reval even as it muddies the waters.
Posted on: 2013/6/25 22:40
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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I doubt that many people's taxes will go down. If anything, people who are underpaying will have their taxes raised to "equalize" the disparity. That was my impression of the reval.
Posted on: 2013/6/25 22:05
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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This will become a temporary stop gap. I am quite sure Secaucus or some other Hudson County town that went up 20% compared to JC 1% will take us to court. Newark was sued by one of its Essex county neighbors and the judge ordered a reval.
Posted on: 2013/6/25 22:05
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
Joined:
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Posted on: 2013/6/25 21:38
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Quite a regular
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I think there is some jumping to conclusions going on. What is wrong with Fulop putting a halt to the reval while he audits the firm's work?
Posted on: 2013/6/25 21:31
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
Joined:
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Especially after the company Healy hired declared that they had to delay the results until after the election once Healy decided to run for re-election.
Posted on: 2013/6/25 21:25
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I live by the river.
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Just can't stay away
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I have to say I'm disappointed, too. There are huge disparities in property taxes even within my condo building near McGinley Square: My next-door neighbor pays $2000 a year less in property taxes than I do, even though our apartments are similar in square footage and condition. I would very much like to see these differences ironed out--and perhaps pay less in taxes as a result.
That said, the now-terminated reval was a joke. It was announced in spring 2010 and was supposed to take 18 months. Three years later, it still wasn't finished. In the interim, market values have fluctuated widely in different neighborhoods. How you could get consistent valuations for homes through such a drawn-out process was a mystery to me. Here's hoping that Fulop does a new reval and does it right.
Posted on: 2013/6/25 21:08
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Because my taxes are lower than they would be in a lot of suburbs with a home of a similar value or even lesser value? I could have a house in South Orange or Maplewood that costs less than my current place and my taxes would be way, way more.
Posted on: 2013/6/25 20:32
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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This is actually pretty fair. He has a good point- prices in Sandy effected places- which is most of downtown and lots of other places including Port Liberte, Society Hill, and Country Village are not going to be the same.
Further, as to the "free-loader" comment, I live in a newer building where my taxes are abated but still too high (even according to the assessor) based on the price I paid. However, with the recent resurge in prices they are more in line with the value. So basically, we all know freeloader is code for downtown, particularly those who are long time owners or those who got short sales or those with abatements or whatever the logic du jour is, and only those people who were effected by Sandy (if them, because prices have been going up in buildings that had problems too) will get a break. Instead of griping about who is paying what, how about asking why we ALL pay higher taxes than people in suburbs who aren't afraid to send their kids to school.
Posted on: 2013/6/25 20:28
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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It's actually the "Mayor-elect" as he hasn't taken office yet. Also, you likely missed the headlines but as Mayor-elect he has already increased the next police class size as well as stated a desire to increase future classes, stated that police will be back to "walking the beat" which was all but eliminated under Healy, removed free-driving privileges for 58 city employees with cars (saving $$$), and aside from the detailed platform he laid out (http://stevenfulop.com/platform), a "See-click-fix" initiative is going to be taking off, which would address the micro issues residents face such as overflowing garbage cans, etc. signed: a freeloader.
Posted on: 2013/6/25 20:00
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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I think it is legitimate to question how this contract was awarded.
However, property does have to be revalued eventually, and even when you sort out the corruption, misconduct, incompetence, etc, it will only be more of a shock if it is delayed further. From a political perspective, if the reval was just finished in due course, I think most people would realize that Fulop was not to blame (although they may expect him to undo certain things that can't be undone).
Posted on: 2013/6/25 19:51
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