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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Quite a regular
 
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Of course you yawn. You are blinded by your own ignorance
Posted on: 2013/2/15 15:21
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Home away from home
 
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Posted on: 2013/2/15 15:19
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Not too shy to talk
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Yawn. Could the next troll step up?
Posted on: 2013/2/15 15:10
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Quite a regular
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Can someone from the fulop team tell me how I am wrong about the impossibility of their plan being implementerd
Posted on: 2013/2/15 15:00
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Not too shy to talk
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OK, that's good committing things to paper. Please answer this: what have you actually accomplished? I am serious. I would like to hear about your actual accomplishments, not just "I think we should do this..." What have you actually done?
Posted on: 2013/2/15 14:53
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Home away from home
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old Dan, new Dan, that just political gamesmanship and rhetoric. there is one Dan, Dan has the same website and has committed more to the web/paper than anyone else.
more boots on the ground? I like community based policing, I'd to increase the size of our police force, but I know first hand that with the pending property revaluation and uncertain impact, taxes are at the breaking point and public safety is most of our municipal budget. I also like David Kennedy's "Velvet Glove" approach to gangs. Attending the monthly police meeting and hearing the discourse of the past year, our police department is being held accountable and reacting, whether the disconnect is real or perceived. elections also provide accountability, no? Quote:
Posted on: 2013/2/15 14:42
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Not too shy to talk
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That's a good joke. Dan thinks Healy is doing a fine job and should continue what he has been doing. As for a plan... well they have had 8 years to come up with one. But, actually, since they look even more like ridiculous baffoons I think they will scramble and try to come up with one. Yeah, Dan, not surprising that you don't think we should try to add more boots on the street or hold the PD accountable. Note to Dan: the "old" Dan would not have felt that way. What the heck happened?
Posted on: 2013/2/15 14:25
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Quite a regular
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I do agree with going out of town for upper management to a point. It wlould be great to bring in a person with successful big inner city experience.
I say the same thing, the non civil service classes, class 2 guys will never happen. He makes it seem like he wants to make the pd merit based, however, it will never happen. When you look at this plan, doesnt anyone realize that its impossible, and probably written by a guy who has been out of policing for almost 15 years. Dan, any comment on what you think is needed? Will healy come out with a plan?
Posted on: 2013/2/15 14:13
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Home away from home
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increasing taxes further, what do we get in return?
for starters, I will ask again - how many police appointees are there? ie. how many will be impacted by the residency requirements? introduction of non-civil service classes and incentives is bringing in more patronage and politicizing the police force furthers. what additional police jobs can be done by civilians? I attend the monthly captains meetings on a semi-regular basis, and I have never seen SF there, though his aide used to attend. I think having centralized meetings where the focus is on policing a good idea and an improvement over having had them previously attend monthly neighborhood and block associations meetings. there is too much to discuss both policing and other issues in an 1 1/2 hour meeting and it is not an efficient use of resources. I believe a small portion of our top police management should come from elsewhere with experience in other cities around the county. I also believe, people can help themselves and be part of the solution. Increasing safety awareness and neighborhood and block watches enhance the ability of our police department and that is something a council person with more tools at disposal can do. If you do not have solid exterior and apartment/house doors, if you do not have deadbolts, if you do not have jimmy bars, if your outer doors are not always locked, if you do not have bars on the ground floor, you can do more. (I also believe a security system, even for apartments should be considered.) I believe the mayor's race is too close to call, so challenge SF to come up with more and specifics. The mayor's state of the city address is next week. Listen and parse it constructively. The city council is changing, at minimum we will have six new council members, maybe more. Make sure those that you elect have something to bring to table. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/2/15 13:57
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Quite a regular
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It seems like no one will address the issue that this plan cannot be implemented while you all defend this plan as the change jc needs. Did any of you realize as wel that the community policing aspect has unsuccessfully been implemented under other failed administrations. I do not expect many of you to know that since most of you on this board did not live in jc until the past few years.
Id love to know what type of crime will be lessened with this plan. It doss not address attempting to enhance the prosecutions of cases. It doesnt address anything about putting criminals in jail. That is the only way you will truly be safe. The fulop proposal is impossible to implement and I have not seen anyone with an explanation on that. Its like me saying, hey I am going to stop world hunger, I can't do it but it sure sounds good, will you vote for me?
Posted on: 2013/2/15 13:50
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Crazyforjc you are wasting my time with this nonsense. You have not convinced me one bit with this pro Healy rant. Have a great weekend.
Posted on: 2013/2/15 12:58
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Home away from home
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As an electorate we can hold Fulop accountable for delivering against the plan. The only thing I can remember Healy committing to paper this election and last, was a promise to deliver "change you can see". The only change I saw was the change shaken every year out of my pockets in tax increases.
Posted on: 2013/2/15 12:57
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Quite a regular
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But its only words on paper. It cannot be implemented. How do you feel thay you are being fed a plan that is not real. Is all lies, just like when he won in 2005, but we know what happened with that.
Posted on: 2013/2/15 12:53
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Home away from home
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Having some kind of plan, is better than having no kind of plan. The Healy admin has dealt with almost every issue re-actively when it comes to running the city. Policing, budgets, you name it.
Avoiding blame and taking undue credit seems to be the only Healy plan.
Posted on: 2013/2/15 7:00
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Well it sounds like we are in agreement on a bunch of stuff. I like the segway idea! I am also fond of motorcycle cops, but that is just me.
Also it sounds to me like you sincerely care about the city and crime. And you also hit the nail on the head -- this thread will be around for years so we shall see how this all turns out.
Posted on: 2013/2/15 5:52
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I cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food.
W. C. Fields |
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Quite a regular
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Sure you can supplement beat cops with the cars on the street.
I would like to see the pd at least give those beat guys some mobility like segways or something of that nature which keeps them with the people but mobile in an emergency I still say and since this threadwill be here for years to come, it will be proven that this so called planwis just not feasable. Its never going tohappen. I know the people on this board are intelligent, cant anyone see through all of this?
Posted on: 2013/2/15 5:44
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Home away from home
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Why not? And, it is really not an either/or question. Motor patrol can be supplemented with foot patrol. I will admit -- I am not an expert in police procedures and policy. I am however open to the idea that we can do better. It really is a matter of being willing to do better. Changing how we approach crime and trying to do things better will not be easy. But, then again, worthwhile things rarely are.
Posted on: 2013/2/15 5:34
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I cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food.
W. C. Fields |
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Quite a regular
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No, I am not a cop. Iam however connected to the jcpd through many people and have been around jc all my life. When I say changes are not needed, what I mean is that the overall mission statement is what it should be. The test to become an officer in jc is only open tojc residents. Everyone knows about it and applications are available all over.
I do agree that the the appointed higher ups should live in the city. Ithink that someone who lives here their whole career and makes it up the ranks should be rewarded. I dont agree with someone moving back to take the job or living in south jersey. I do however like this chief. Everything can be improved. Maybe community policing would work in ward e.it will not work in any other ward. I did not post to argue that, I just argued that the policy that so many of you are gawking at is not goingto happen even if fulop wins in a landslide. The ideas presented in it are literally a joke
Posted on: 2013/2/15 5:15
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Home away from home
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crazyforjc--Are you a cop?
Posted on: 2013/2/15 5:00
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I live by the river.
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Home away from home
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Ah, now I get it and now I understand where you are coming from. Thanks for clearing that up. Of course, I disagree with you. Jersey City can be much more aggressive about recruiting from within the community. We know that we cannot legally require patrolmen to live in the city, but if we aggressively recruit in Jersey City we can certainly up the numbers. And, as is pointed out in the plan, the top administrators CAN BE Jersey City residents. Lots of members of the community do not trust the police (rightly or wrongly). But, having people FROM the community can only improve things. This is but one example of how things can improve. I actually do agree that by and large we have a fine police department. But, we have to challenge them to do better. And there is always room for improvement. But, just saying "it can't be done" is not the answer. But, it is clear now where you are coming from. Welcome to JC LIST !!!
Posted on: 2013/2/15 4:58
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I cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food.
W. C. Fields |
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Quite a regular
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It is not about status quo. Jersey City is being pitched an anti-crime platform that cannot and will not be instituted because most of it legally cannot.
Most people do not know what goes into stopping real crime. Community policing is not it. Because the streets are physically free of drug dealers, does that mean that it is not going on. You would be surprised that the biggest drug dealers caught are not the ones on the corner of MLK or Ocean, many of them live in high rises and in homes right next door to many of us. How about a crime plan that focuses on getting rid of the problem through utilizing the skills of the police and a partnership with prosecutors, state and federal that will get rid of criminal through vigorous prosecutions rather than patting them on the back and saying, hey buddy this is our neighborhood, kindly move along and take your red bandana with you. I am not saying that anyone should be content with the current level of crime. Of course, we all want the crime numbers to be big zero's, but everyone is afraid to be aggressive in that pursuit. Whatever side you take, just realize that the plan presented by the Fulop side will never be instituted, it cannot be. So when it is not, what the plan then? Changes are not needed within the JCPD. It is one of the top notch departments in the state if not the country. It is full cops making arrests every day. We are all for making it better, but BS ranks and adding half cops to the force, is that going to improve it, or ruin it - oh by the way, those things will nEVER happen
Posted on: 2013/2/15 4:51
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Nice generalizations. So, anyone who doesn't agree with you must not know the area? Right. And you seem to be perfectly happy to protect the status quo. I bet you also think Healy is doing a great job and is not a corrupt sack of poop, right? Right. Welcome to JC LIST.
Posted on: 2013/2/15 4:36
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I cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food.
W. C. Fields |
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Hello Newbie. What brings you to JC-List? I assure you that you need not tell us you welcome challenge. Challenge comes with the territory. Your argument is that Community Policing is ineffective because it just moves crime out of the community. I thought that was the idea. Community policing is not done for a single block. It is dynamic, and protects the entire neighborhood. Perhaps some criminals will operate in other neighborhoods that they don't know and where they have few friends, but far more will be arrested or will stop committing crimes because committing crimes is harder to get away with Then you say community policing only makes residents feel safer, as if that result is unimportant. While every individual crime is awful, it is the loss of a sense of safety and security that is crime's worst effect on a neighborhood. If the citizens of Jersey City, especially those in high-crime areas, feel safer, the quality of life is greatly improved. You next say that residents would be better off with crime taking place on our streets because that way the police will be able to see it and "take care of business." That is an unusual point of view. But then we get to the heart of your argument: Change will not happen. We should learn to accept the current level of crime because nothing can be done to improve the effectiveness of the police. That is a defeatist justification for the status quo and shows why we need fresh leadership. Steve's plan is not "buzzwords" for Ward E people. He is thinking about the whole city. Ward E is not the part of the city most affected by crime. The citizens of every ward deserve public safety. No ward should be neglected. You say there are only a few desk jobs that can be shifted to civilians because it would be too dangerous for civilians to do most of them. I'm sorry, but you don't need a badge and a gun to sit at a desk or answer the telephone. Whatever special skills or knowledge are needed for a desk job can be taught to civilians, returning the highly trained and experienced officers to the streets. Finally you ask who will implement the changes? How can we trust them? Steve Fulop and the people he chooses to work for him will. Because he has the voters' trust. Nothing mysterious about it.
Posted on: 2013/2/15 4:22
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I live by the river.
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Quite a regular
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Seriously. Please read this crime plan. Anyone with half a brain who knows about the area and is not a transplant from another world will know that not only is this plan not practical, it is impossible to implement.
First of all, community policing IS one way to address crime. When utilized properly, it will make the public feel better about their area. Will it reduce crime? No. Will it move crime, sure. Where does crime go? Do any of you know? Crime will move indoors, or to other areas of the city. That will make it legally harder for law enforcement to take care of business. If it is your block the criminal element moves out of, great, but what about the others that now will deal with it? What about trying to eradicate crime? Anyone who has an unbiased eye will know that the JCPD is doing an excellent job. Name one major incident that has not been solved? The JJ is not a good indicator of what is going on. It is anti administration, so anything good the PD does will not be highlighted. Obviously Fulop's plan is to satisfy his Ward E people with buzzwords and the feeling that things will change. It will not happen. Police First Class Rank? never happen, will not be recognized by civil service, therefore will not be anything more than a position given as a political favor, nothing different than the current system. in JCPD there is only one rank that can be truly determined to be a favor, the rest of it is through civil service testing. In addition, you would have union opposition on it, it would have to be collectively bargained and since JCPD is in a contract for a while, cannot be added for years. Class 2 specials? Hoboken had 40 people come out for the job, and 2 stayed. Tons of oppostion from the union with having scabs on the street - plus is it really safe? It opens the city up to tons of liability. NEVER HAPPEN Also, the training for class 2 police officers is NOT the same as regular police officer, if it was, they would not be CLASS 2 Removing police personnel from administrative jobs? There are a few jobs that can be staffed by civilians - agreed, however there are many that should be staffed by police. It becomes a safety issue when civilians are answering emergency calls and dispatching calls...have you ever called the ones we have now? sounds terrible, but if you put cops in that position, it will work better. Is it fiscally the best thing? no, but when your house is getting broken into, i bet you would rather have the right person on the other line when you need them District Line audit is nothing but trying to skew the numbers. Also, who from the police department will be tasked to do all of this implementation? What do we know about them? I welcome anyone to challenge me on any of these issues
Posted on: 2013/2/15 3:21
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Quite a regular
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Note how Mr. Levin completely avoids responding to the substance of Fulop's anti-crime plan, and goes straight to defend Healy's record. Why would he want to do that??? Fulop is talking about a pretty comprehensive way of revitalizing the police department, starting with more accountability at the top, and focused at getting more police in the community. Critique the plan, Dan. I'm sure there's some reason why Mayor Healy hasn't tried any of the things Steve Fulop says should be done and that he will do. But of course you and Healy prefer to change the subject. Otherwise people might compare Healy's dismal record with Fulop's fresh set of ideas. (By the way, DanL, reminding people how much Healy raised taxes might not be exactly on-message.)
Posted on: 2013/2/14 23:38
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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DanL, the thing is... Fulop is proposing that we invest in improving the quality of life of residents, Healy's tax increases were designed to improve the quality of life of his cronies...
Posted on: 2013/2/14 21:37
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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so after all of the internal police cost savings talked about, so after all of the other potential cost savings from merging the incinerator authority into public works and the parking authority into the city (we still want that, no?), after all of the tax increases of the past few years and with the pending property reval - we are now being told, even promised additional tax increases, though not significant?
so that tells me, the tax increases of the past few years were justified, warranted and unavoidable. "Fulop told The Jersey Journal he feels he would be able to implement his plans without raising taxes significantly." http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... y_candidate_steve_fu.html
Posted on: 2013/2/14 21:31
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Re: Steve Fulop candidate for Jersey City Mayor announces anti-crime plan
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Just can't stay away
 
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Fulop's plan is the kind of clear-headed thinking city government needs. I'm skeptical about the ability to get it all done. But any part of it would be a big improvement over where we are now.
Posted on: 2013/2/10 1:58
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"encouraging" or "rewarding" depending on context.
Posted on: 2013/2/8 14:14
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"Enticing" it is. :)
Posted on: 2013/2/8 14:04
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