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I look at this way, JC was a sh*t hole after the "white flight" in the 60"s and did not see new comers until the mid 70's.

The Indian population started to increase around that time and moving in the downtown and Journal Square area, and more movement came in the mid 80's when downtown started to see movement and change with a flock of artist and gays.

GV started making changes with Society Hill, and Port Liberte.
12 years ago. Prior to the Lightrail GV was not home to
Bed, Bath & Beyond,
Pole Position Raceway
Nuradeen gallery
Keystone Property Trust
Twin City which is brand new supermarket on Garfield
The condos on Princeton,
Condos on Old Bergen Road
Summit Imports
Polar One, a refrigerated Warehouse.
Jollibee The restaurant
Town Houses and Condos on Bay-view Terrace.

Serious redevelopment has begun on MLK, Ocean Ave and West Side.

Most outsiders of GV wouldn't notice these changes due to the size of GV. Most people focus on Ocean ave, but GV is much more than Ocean ave.

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Well this is happening through out the city, Bed Bath and Beyond just opened their offices here in Greenville in a brand new developed building and 3 new condo complex have just arrived in Greenville.

Also condos are popping up in Bergen Lafayette, Heights and West Bergen. The entire city is experiencing this, but its only been noticed downtown because it is so much of it.

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Yes and no. You mention the "changes that result". Some of the changes being brought up include development, because when you get wealthier people, white/black/brown/whatever, things like abandoned lots and shuttered storefronts get renovated and developed. That's part of gentrification.

Again, take a look at the east end of Brooklyn. Not only did former Manhattanites etc just take over the old brownstones, but they built condos, same as here; they opened new restaurants and bars and stores, same as here.

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I agree with you on most of what you said, but I think there's a few differences of opinion worth mentioning. While 'ruin' isn't the word I'd use either, Hoboken isn't really something I'd want to aspire to either. Hoboken of today is chock full of midwestern transplants, guidos and yuppies. Much of old Hoboken has been pushed out, with only small pockets remaining.

One could say the same thing about downtown JC, but there are - at least from the way I'm looking at it - much less former fratbros and a much greater number of immigrants and hipsters. Again, one can debate the pros and cons of both groups, especially the latter (I am no fan of that particular genre), but it also lends a much... cooler feel to the changes. I can't really think of a better word at the moment, even though that doesn't feel right, but like... Hoboken gets more Starbucks and Duane Reades while downtown JC's gotten places like 30 Acres, Barcade and Kraverie.

Hoboken gets Tilted Kilt as a chain (still assumedly coming here as well eventually) while JC gets Bon Chon. Park & 6th had a Hoboken store, then they had both there and here, and they made the choice to close the Hoboken one because they like this place better. The only thing I would say I'm remotely envious of in Hoboken is that their beer garden is better than ours.

Maybe I am not understanding you guys meaning of Gentrification, it does not necessarily mean development.

It refers to the changes that result when wealthier people ("gentry") acquire or rent property in low income and working class communities.

If you look at Jersey City census from 2010 the whole city is experiencing gentrification. It does not mean "white people" or high end stores everywhere.

No place else is going to gentrify in JC until all of downtown is gentrified. And there are still quite a few blocks, chunks of Newark Avenue among them, that are no good.

If we say generally that anything east of Jersey Avenue is gentrified almost fully (which might be a push, some would say Marin or Manila/Grove), you still have a lot of blocks in the Monmouth and Brunswick area that look like total garbage, the whole Pathmark shopping center is just aching to become Newport-esque, etc.

You also have much of the area north of the tunnel and south of Hoboken. Considering that people walk from uptown Hoboken to downtown for the PATH, this area is also a prime gentrification zone.

And only once that is done, people will turn to Journal Square, and once that is done, they will leap to Harrison and the Ironbound- btw, both safer than much of the rest of JC. People want 24-hour access to the city. People don't want a sketch ride at the light rail to switch to the PATH and a pricey cab back at night. Not to mention that the light rail goes to Weehawken and Bayonne, and is planned to go further north, to areas with better reputations that much of JC.

I love how downtown is depicted as full of bankers and Hoboken light. All the immigrants from India, the gay couples, the hipsters, the formerly large Italian, Polish, and Filippino communities but still strong and sticking around...yes Grove Street is just Park Avenue.

Hoboken isn't "ruined"- quite the contrary, it's the result of people actually committing to fix something that's broken, exactly what is happening downtown. OK it's expensive, that's what happens. Nice places usually cost more than not-nice places. I'd rather pay a little more for rent and not have to worry about getting jumped on the street or on the light rail. I don't want JC to become as "commercial" and it won't, the character is different. Nonetheless, if safety wise, and perception wise, we are like Hoboken, that's pretty sweet.

But people outside of downtown shouldn't worry. Unless you're by JSQ or on the water, your shabiness won't be touched for a while.

for what it's worth, and i probably have mentioned this before somewhere else, but in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, there is a Rainbow and a couple of 99 cent stores, but that area is very gentrified, more than downtown jc even. so just because there is a Rainbow downtown doesn't mean that area isn't gentrified. you don't necessarily need a whole foods and 5 duane reades to have a gentrified area.

i was just about to add that google also shows plenty of examples of non-gentrification. there's a bodega/deli one store up on the NW corner. there's the cheapass clothing store 2 lots onto the NW side of 14th, and alberto's pizza and a mcdonalds on the south side.

south on 14th, you have a pawn shop, 2 more cheapass clothing places, and a 7-11.

go look at the pics i posted of ocean ave. half the stores are closed, and the other half aren't even close to a 7-11 or mcdonalds. there's a huuuuuuuuuuuuge honkin difference.

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This an urban phenomenom I've never really understood - 14th Street has Greeenwich Village to the south, Chelsea to the North and Meatpacking to the west and is still pretty dumpy. I guess to a lesser extent Newark Avenue follows the same trend. I suspect it has more to do with underserviced neighborhoods with transportation routes that make access to 14th Street (and Newark Avenue) easy.
To me it is interesting that overlaid on the skuzziness of 14th is a very upscale foodie route - Chelsea Market, Eden Farms (?), WF, TJ and Union Square. Maybe that is a transit-related benefit as well.

If all Google is showing is HSBC and Urban Outfitters, maybe someone installed one of those yuppy cookies from Chelsea Market.

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yea i'll take this bet, too. hell, the western end of downtown isn't close to being gentrified yet - sh!t, chunks of the middle of downtown are still hold outs. you want a more realistic time frame? 15 years, bare minimum. probably closer to 20.

public transportation is ZERO indicator of incoming gentrification. both bk neighborhoods i mentioned, crown heights and brownsville, have FOUR subways running right in the middle of them (2,3,4,5) and they are straight up inner city/ghetto, as bad or worse than greenville.

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+1

HA!!!!! funny post.

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RE shills have been saying this for at least 15 years.

Thanks for all the info! I guess I will have to look around and just see what works best for me. User1111 you are right haha I am 29 white and a businessman.

I'm on google maps and I don't see 99 cent stores and a hollywood friend chicken....I see an urban outfitters and a HSBC...

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You've got a pretty high bar there, that description fits 14th st & 6th ave, and you can't say Chelsea isn't gentrified!

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What to put some money on that? I'll take that bet everyday of the week and twice on Sundays.

I guess it all depends on what our definition of gentrified is...to me, newark ave still has a ways to go. Until those discount stores, 99 cent stores, questionable take-out restaurants, and discount chicken places (hollywood fried chicken) closes down, that area is still grimy.

GV is not for everybody and it is no where near gentrified, but it will be in the next five years, you can count on it. Unlike the Heights and BL. GV has two lightrail stops not just one. My real estate agent said the funniest thing "History repeats itself because no one was listening the first time" Meaning more and more folks are buying elsewhere in JC and renting downtown like it has been for the last 50 years.

The condo complexes here are gentrified 100%. I don't know knicks2013 stats and I wont assume he is young, white, and professional; who knows?

I like it for me and I plan to be here for the next five years before I leave the state. 90% of the buildings on Ocean between Fulton and Danforth have been sold to developers, I was also interested in a few of them myself.

When I first got here the average rent in my neighborhood was $650.00 for a one bedroom this has doubled only in the last 8 months. More, and more landlords are using agents to rent their apartments instead of putting signs in the window to attract new comers to the area.

Us JClisters can go on and on, bu t you really have to check out these neighborhoods yourself. When I first was thinking about GV everyone on this board said I would be shot, stabbed, and killed. I am still here and enjoying my home and my neighbors. Best of luck Knicks2013!

Here, let's compare this to another area that JC sometimes gets compared to. Even in this thread. Brooklyn.

Journal Square is kind of the borderline between a little grimy and too grimy. Think Bushwick or Flatbush. Greenville is lower on the ladder. Think Crown Heights or Brownsville.

The edge of Greenville is OK, but just a couple of blocks in, even from the light rail, and it's pure inner city, borderline ghetto on some blocks. I visited a friend who lives 7 blocks south of the Danforth light rail station on Seaview and pretty much the entire walk is a pretty rough stretch.

This is the corner of Ocean and Seaview.


Here's a couple blocks up Ocean towards the station. Not much better.

Just don't do it...don't do it.

Renting in greenville is nuts but buying in greenville?!!?

I just have two words for you: The Beacon!

It was sold as luxury condos in an "up and coming" neighborhood. Guess what - owners there lost as much as 60% of their home value. And it's not jumping back up anytime soon....And that area is infinitely better than Greenville.

There are 5 main reasons why you should not buy in Greenville

1) Safety. Even if those areas near the light rail are safe, do you want to be next to some of the dangerous areas in ALL of Jersey City??

2) Transportation. Who knows what will happen to the light rail. It's currently running a deficit. It might go bankrupt - who knows. the PATH, on the other hand, will never go bankrupt.

3)Gentrification. I hear some people saying 10 years until the area gets gentrified. rofl. keep dreaming. They were saying the same thing about the beacon 10 years ago. To be honest, even the area around grove street isn't completely gentrified. There are dollar stores, cheap as hell furniture stores, "rainbow", hollywood chicken and so on. Do you see these stores in the upper east side or Brooklyn heights? In 10 years, the area around grove will be gentrified, how long will it take greenville to get gentrified? 20, 30 years? Who knows. Why take that risk?

4) Brand. Here is a conversation you will have with your friends and family

You: Hey [insert loved ones name here], want to visit me?

Friend/Family: Of course, I hear you live in jersey city - that's close to NYC right?

You: Yeah, I live in Jersey City in a town called Greenville

Scenario 1:
Friend/Family: Umm, I thought you lived in downtown or newport, why don't you come and visit us?

Scenario 2:
Freind/Family: Sure, let's go. [They come, see the neighborhood, and never speak to you again]

Do you want your friends/family to never speak to you again? I thought so, just don't do it.


You want to buy in an up and coming neighborhood. Buy in liberty harbor north. That area has good views of the statue of liberty and is within walking distance to the PATH and is stillc heap compared to newport/paulus hook prices.

This is just an observation. But to me there seems to be an increase of non-black residents near the Danforth and Richard stations of all back grounds....asians, hispanics, whites....many seem to be young professional types...and even a few hipsters. I do believe Greenville still has lots of rough edges but....now would be a good time to buy property.....because i do believe this area will gentrify in the coming years.

If the square had more housing stock and parking near the path then I would choose the square.

The best place in the square is the "island" other than that it sux.

FYI I am not poor, nor black.

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I like JS it has a good feel and if you are not too far from the path its a good deal for the money. Greenville does not have such a city feel, its a bit more laid back. Richard street and Danforth lightrail areas are the best locations in GV IMO.

Richard street and Danforth area also just got a huge grant from homeland security so it feels the safest, lots of cops and cameras everywhere.

If you are looking for a city feel than I say JS, if you don't mind no restaurants or gyms then GV. I have been in GV for 8 months and I am starting to really love it. I shop in Bayonne and hit the gym there is well which is only a few stops on the lighrail. You can also shop downtown if you like which is also a few stops away, most of my neighbors shop downtown JC which is a 5 min train ride.

GV is changing it has that downtown feel from the 90's not too developed and lots of artist and gays.

I am near Richard street lightrail and the area is attracting allot of Asians, interracial couples and the best thing about the area, more and more section 8 voucher holders are leaving due to the city expiring the program. Also there are fewer projects in the Richard street area so it gets pretty quite. With the new art gallery on Ocean and condos on Old Bergen Road it starting to feel more city like.

Country Village is nice, but you are far away from everything.

Also not sure if you are renting or buying but if you are buying I would suggest living in the area for a year b4 u buy just to get a feel for yourself and not depend on JClisters.

Greenville: poor, black, crime ridden. Most (but certainly not all) of the violent crime in Jersey City happens there. Residents are currently pleading that the city provide more police patrols, as drug gangs control certain blocks/corners. Nevertheless, there are some pretty blocks (in terms of housing stock) as a reminder of a bygone era.

Journal Square: mostly working class, ethnically diverse. Very big Indian population. Perhaps about to see major real estate development in the next 10 years (several skyscrapers). Currently almost no nightlife, and certainly nothing anyone would refer to as upscale regarding both dining and retail. Much of the housing stock needs renovation - 50's style kitchen appliances are commonplace. Much safer than Greenville, not as safe as downtown. Probably not a bad bet for medium-long term real estate investment.

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Are those your only two choices in JC? If so, Journal Square is safer, more developed and gentrified, closer to NYC, safer, safer, and safer than Greenville.

So unless you want to learn how to be a gangster, choose JS

Moving to JC soon, what is the word on Journal square and Greenville?