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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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I mean, we really can't blame BP as much as we blame ourselves (and the people in the Gulf). I'm certainly not a oil company sympathizer. I don't own a car, I do my part to try to be green and minimize my carbon footprint. However, we as a people knew that it was unreasonable to drill at that depth but never allowed our government to stop.

We demanded moratoria on drilling on the East and West Coasts but neglected to make those same demands in the Gulf. We had those moratoria because we didn't believe we could drill safely past our threshold of risk to tourism if something where to happen. Yet, we allowed them to drill away from our purview (in the Gulf).

BP may have caused the explosion but we could have held them to a hirer standard. We chose not to despite the exxon-valdez, the ixotoc (sp?) which was the Mexican version of our crisis in the same gulf 30 years ago. If it were not BP, it would have been another company exploiting our lax standards.

I am not saying that you should not boycott. Exercise your liberties! Punish them for any blame you can attribute. However, be cognizant where the real blame lays.

Posted on: 2010/6/12 2:32
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Speedway? The Marathon subsidiary? Marathon is the largest industry participant in Equatorial Guinea and very much responsible for propping up the current criminal (and at times, brutal) regime. I understand your point (and that you were using Speedway as non-specific example) - just saying that there really is no lesser evil.

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Crazy_Chester wrote:
Like I said, I understand its a big head-spinning maze of drillers and wholesalers and refiners and franchisees and I can never be sure where all of my money ends up, but I am not ever going to pull into a BP again. If I pull into a Speedway for gas, I know that BP is not rewarded like they would be if I pull into an actual BP, even if it may only be a fraction of a fraction of a penny.

I walk or take the light rail to work, so I'm pretty content with my carbon footprint and lack of oil/gas usage. My car is usually covered in dust from lack of use. But when I do pull in for gas, the concept of lesser evils helps me choose.

Posted on: 2010/6/11 19:55
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Like I said, I understand its a big head-spinning maze of drillers and wholesalers and refiners and franchisees and I can never be sure where all of my money ends up, but I am not ever going to pull into a BP again. If I pull into a Speedway for gas, I know that BP is not rewarded like they would be if I pull into an actual BP, even if it may only be a fraction of a fraction of a penny.

I walk or take the light rail to work, so I'm pretty content with my carbon footprint and lack of oil/gas usage. My car is usually covered in dust from lack of use. But when I do pull in for gas, the concept of lesser evils helps me choose.

Posted on: 2010/6/11 18:53
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Crazy_Chester wrote:

I have heard this industry line and I am not convinced that it is all exactly true. Otherwise, there would just be one big oil/gas company and each gas station would be a truly independent entity. If everyone boycotted BP, they would cease as an entity, either via bankruptcy or acquisition. Money spent at a BP station does not get shared with Exxon or Sunoco. Some winds up on BP's bottom line, which I won't contribute to if I can help it. And if BP franchisees feel pressure, you better believe they will consider changing their brands. I am sure BP will survive my boycott, but I sleep better.


All of the major oil companies began selling off their retail operations about fifteen years ago. Retail franchise fees account for no more than 2% of it's profits in a typical year.

Think about the industry this way - there are independent companies involved in every step of the oil chain, many of which the public has never heard of. While the majors are best known because they have retail operations associated with their names, much of what happens in the industry is done by companies that are relatively unknown.

Some of the biggest oil producers in the U.S. are independents such as Devon, Apache and Anadarko. Offshore wells are drilled by the likes of Noble, Transocean and Ensco. Independent refiners such as Valero and Tesoro didn't have retail up until recently and none of them (including Sunoco) own any production. The majority of the pipelines and storage tanks are owned by companies such as Buckeye, Kinder Morgan and Enterprise Products.

My point is that it is a decentralized, commodotized industry. I applaud your virtuous stance and wish there were a more effective way to influence these companies. Shell should be held accountable for abetting the murder of Nigerians. Exxon shouldn't be able to buy off politicians so that it can pay less than 20% of the penalties levied against it for the Valdez spill (and not end up paying any of it for almost 20 years after the incident.) Chevron (through it's acquired operations from Texaco) should be held accountable for knowingly poisoning and ultimately killing indigenous tribes of the Ecuadoran Amazon. The list goes on and on. Unfortunately, if you think about it too much you'll go crazy. Or sell your car.

Posted on: 2010/6/11 18:29
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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bill wrote:
Quote:

Crazy_Chester wrote:If everyone boycotted BP, they would cease as an entity, either via bankruptcy or acquisition. Money spent at a BP station does not get shared with Exxon or Sunoco. Some winds up on BP's bottom line, which I won't contribute to if I can help it. And if BP franchisees feel pressure, you better believe they will consider changing their brands. I am sure BP will survive my boycott, but I sleep better.


I don't understand your motive with regards to the current oil spill. If you want them to disappear, who will pay for/clean up their mess? Shouldn't you advocate this once the disaster is addressed?


It isn't about the oil spill as much as it is the Lockerbie incident. I have said this several times. I am more angry about this:

"Jack Straw was personally lobbied by BP over Britain?s prisoner transfer agreement with Libya just before he abandoned efforts to exclude the Lockerbie bomber from the deal.

The Times has learnt that the Justice Secretary took two telephone calls from Sir Mark Allen, a former M16 agent, who was by then working for BP as a consultant, on October 15 and November 9, 2007.

Having signed a $900 million oil exploration deal with Libya earlier that year, BP feared that its commercial interests could be damaged if Britain delayed the prisoner transfer agreement (PTA) through which the Gaddafi regime hoped to secure the return home of Abdul Baset Ali al-Megrahi.

For six months, talks with Libya were deadlocked as Britain ? under pressure from the devolved Scottish government ? vainly sought to ensure that the deal would not cover al-Megrahi."


You can choose to believe this story or not. That is one's prerogative. I believe it and I am not spending another nickel on anything BP related because of this. Am I supposed to throw up my arms and say, "Well, my boycott won't amount to anything so I might as well buy some BP gasoline?" Screw that.

As far as the oil spill, I know it was an accident, but there is evidence that it could have been preventable. The jury is out on this. BP already has the cash to pay for the cleanup, so that will not go away, boycott or not. My own boycott goes back to this Libya deal last year.

Posted on: 2010/6/11 18:14
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Jersey City rally across from BP gas station near Holland Tunnel calls for lifting liability cap for oil companies whose spills do damage
Friday, June 11, 2010
By ANNA YUKHANANOV
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
Activists staged a rally across the street from a BP gas station at the mouth of the Holland Tunnel in Jersey City yesterday to protest caps on oil companies' liability for oil spills.

About 20 members of MoveOn.org gathered at 14th and Erie streets at 4 p.m., toting signs and urging passing motorists to honk as a show of support.


Spurred by the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf in April, which is responsible for the largest oil spill in U.S. history, the activists said that now is the time to make sure oil companies pony up for disasters they create.

"It's not just about BP. It could have been any company," said Paul Meyers, one of the organizers of the rally. "If the oil companies didn't have so much power, we'd have electric cars by now. We wouldn't have to fight wars for oil."

Current law caps an oil company's liability for a spill at $75 million, but MoveOn.org supporters want to make BP pay for all damages in the Gulf spill, said Mary Ann Sherman, regional coordinator for the organization.

The protesters held signs that read "Make BP Pay" and Honk for Clean Energy," garnering mostly cheers and honks from drivers.

"After this, I probably won't be keeping my patronage of BP," said Roger Jones, a motorist from Jersey City, who had stopped to fill up at the BP station. "It just didn't register until I saw the signs."

BP officials didn't return phone calls to comment. A BP gas attendant in Hoboken said he hasn't noticed any dip in sales since the Gulf of Mexico disaster.

"Nobody bugs us. We don't get any problems. I don't think sales have been affected," said Sham Hoque, the attendant.

Robert Van Der Wiele, a motorist near the Holland Tunnel, said he's not prepared to stop buying BP gas because of the ongoing spill.

"I can see if it was done purposefully," Van Der Wiele said. "But nothing's perfect in this world. And mistakes do happen."

Mariano Molina, an organizer of the rally, said the protest was not about boycotting BP stations.

"It's definitely not about that gas station," Molina said, pointing to the BP station across the street. "It is about BP. They have been very sloppy. They didn't have a plan in the event of disaster."

Posted on: 2010/6/11 17:41
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Crazy_Chester wrote:If everyone boycotted BP, they would cease as an entity, either via bankruptcy or acquisition. Money spent at a BP station does not get shared with Exxon or Sunoco. Some winds up on BP's bottom line, which I won't contribute to if I can help it. And if BP franchisees feel pressure, you better believe they will consider changing their brands. I am sure BP will survive my boycott, but I sleep better.


I don't understand your motive with regards to the current oil spill. If you want them to disappear, who will pay for/clean up their mess? Shouldn't you advocate this once the disaster is addressed?

Posted on: 2010/6/11 17:34
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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T-Bird wrote:
The problem with oil and it's derivative products is that you have no real way of knowing what you are buying when you go to the gas station, regardless of the name on the pump. Oil is produced around the world and loaded into tankers (or pipelines) and commingled. Going to a Valero station doesn't mean that the gas you are buying came from a Valero refinery and it certainly doesn't mean the source oil came from a Valero well because they don't have any. You have no way of knowing whether the gasoline you buy at Valero came from a BP well - or a PdVSA, Libyan or Saudi well for that matter.

BP has trucks that deliver gas to the station, but they aren't coming from a BP refinery because BP doesn't have any in the region and there is no requirement that a station owner buy gasoline that originates from BP-sourced oil. Gasoline boycotts are ineffective (unless the target is a specific station and not the brand) - the only way to really affect the oil business is to use less (or none) of the product altogether.

Quote:

Crazy_Chester wrote:
Your protest analogy is way off. This protest was done in front of one of the actual places of business. Why protest in front of the waitress' home if the actual restaurant is nearby? Your point would be valid if I had suggested protesting in front of the BP franchisee's home, which I did not. Or if I had suggested boycotting all gasoline, which I did not.

Anyway, all I am saying is that I will not to hand over any money that will wind up on the bottom line of a company that helped free the Lockerbie bomber. And a foreign company, no less. The oil spill is bad enough, but at least that could be considered an accident.

I am sure that some of my disposable income winds up funding some sort of illicit activity. Maybe a 6-year-old made my shirt in Mexico for 10 cents an hour. Maybe Valero or Sunoco discriminate against people. I have not heard. Until then, why someone would pull into a BP when another gas station is right next door is beyond me. It isn't easy keeping track of all the crap that goes on and making sure that you only support worthwhile business practices.

But you can at least try.


I have heard this industry line and I am not convinced that it is all exactly true. Otherwise, there would just be one big oil/gas company and each gas station would be a truly independent entity. If everyone boycotted BP, they would cease as an entity, either via bankruptcy or acquisition. Money spent at a BP station does not get shared with Exxon or Sunoco. Some winds up on BP's bottom line, which I won't contribute to if I can help it. And if BP franchisees feel pressure, you better believe they will consider changing their brands. I am sure BP will survive my boycott, but I sleep better.

Posted on: 2010/6/11 16:57
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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[quote]
T-Bird wrote:
The problem with oil and it's derivative products is that you have no real way of knowing what you are buying when you go to the gas station, regardless of the name on the pump. Oil is produced around the world and loaded into tankers (or pipelines) and commingled. Going to a Valero station doesn't mean that the gas you are buying came from a Valero refinery and it certainly doesn't mean the source oil came from a Valero well because they don't have any. You have no way of knowing whether the gasoline you buy at Valero came from a BP well - or a PdVSA, Libyan or Saudi well for that matter.

BP has trucks that deliver gas to the station, but they aren't coming from a BP refinery because BP doesn't have any in the region and there is no requirement that a station owner buy gasoline that originates from BP-sourced oil. Gasoline boycotts are ineffective (unless the target is a specific station and not the brand) - the only way to really affect the oil business is to use less (or none) of the product altogether.




/thread

Posted on: 2010/6/11 16:36
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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The problem with oil and it's derivative products is that you have no real way of knowing what you are buying when you go to the gas station, regardless of the name on the pump. Oil is produced around the world and loaded into tankers (or pipelines) and commingled. Going to a Valero station doesn't mean that the gas you are buying came from a Valero refinery and it certainly doesn't mean the source oil came from a Valero well because they don't have any. You have no way of knowing whether the gasoline you buy at Valero came from a BP well - or a PdVSA, Libyan or Saudi well for that matter.

BP has trucks that deliver gas to the station, but they aren't coming from a BP refinery because BP doesn't have any in the region and there is no requirement that a station owner buy gasoline that originates from BP-sourced oil. Gasoline boycotts are ineffective (unless the target is a specific station and not the brand) - the only way to really affect the oil business is to use less (or none) of the product altogether.

Quote:

Crazy_Chester wrote:
Your protest analogy is way off. This protest was done in front of one of the actual places of business. Why protest in front of the waitress' home if the actual restaurant is nearby? Your point would be valid if I had suggested protesting in front of the BP franchisee's home, which I did not. Or if I had suggested boycotting all gasoline, which I did not.

Anyway, all I am saying is that I will not to hand over any money that will wind up on the bottom line of a company that helped free the Lockerbie bomber. And a foreign company, no less. The oil spill is bad enough, but at least that could be considered an accident.

I am sure that some of my disposable income winds up funding some sort of illicit activity. Maybe a 6-year-old made my shirt in Mexico for 10 cents an hour. Maybe Valero or Sunoco discriminate against people. I have not heard. Until then, why someone would pull into a BP when another gas station is right next door is beyond me. It isn't easy keeping track of all the crap that goes on and making sure that you only support worthwhile business practices.

But you can at least try.

Posted on: 2010/6/11 16:32
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Quote:

Crazy_Chester wrote:
Quote:

Farfromit wrote:
Chester = pwnd


Are kids still using this term? And why do you hate America and Americans?


Why do you try to make yourself feel better by talking about protesting one gas station that had nothing to do with the spill? Meanwhile you'll continue to drive a car or buy products that are driven to the store.

You and people like you don't understand the complex issues at work here and what would happen if BP and the other oil companies suddenly stop producing oil for us. And hoping something like that happens actually means that you hate America and Americans.

You want to really do something that would hurt BP/Oil Industry? Stop wasting time standing in front of a gas station, and get a job working towards alternative sources of energy. And just fyi - a lot of those jobs would mean you will be working for one of those companies you "hate."

Posted on: 2010/6/11 16:30
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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No, it is still way off. Bizarre, actually. Unless the franchisee lives at the gas station. But if the analogy works for you, go with it. I know better.

Anyway, I am not protesting or waving a banner anywhere. I am just not spending a dime at BP. Just like I would not frequent a restaurant that made me ill.

Do you folks refuse to do business at certain places for certain reasons? This hurts innocent people, too.

Posted on: 2010/6/11 16:28
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Crazy_Chester wrote:
Your protest analogy is way off. This protest was done in front of one of the actual places of business. Why protest in front of the waitress' home if the actual restaurant is nearby? Your point would be valid if I had suggested protesting in front of the BP franchisee's home, which I did not. Or if I had suggested boycotting all gasoline, which I did not.



Actually, it's not. An analogy in its simplest terms is to draw a comparison to show a similarity in some respect. What we have here is
BP
Gas Station Division / Drilling Division (FAULT)
Gas Station
Protest

Chester's Restaurant
Wait Staff / Food Prep Staff (FAULT)
Waitress' Home
Protest

Posted on: 2010/6/11 16:06
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Great, give the local franchisee a hard time instead of protesting at the head office.

The local BP is most likely run by a JC resident just trying to run a business..........Did we protest at the local Enron Gas Station ?

Posted on: 2010/6/11 15:51
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Farfromit wrote:
Chester = pwnd


Are kids still using this term? And why do you hate America and Americans?

Posted on: 2010/6/11 15:09
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Your protest analogy is way off. This protest was done in front of one of the actual places of business. Why protest in front of the waitress' home if the actual restaurant is nearby? Your point would be valid if I had suggested protesting in front of the BP franchisee's home, which I did not. Or if I had suggested boycotting all gasoline, which I did not.

Anyway, all I am saying is that I will not to hand over any money that will wind up on the bottom line of a company that helped free the Lockerbie bomber. And a foreign company, no less. The oil spill is bad enough, but at least that could be considered an accident.

I am sure that some of my disposable income winds up funding some sort of illicit activity. Maybe a 6-year-old made my shirt in Mexico for 10 cents an hour. Maybe Valero or Sunoco discriminate against people. I have not heard. Until then, why someone would pull into a BP when another gas station is right next door is beyond me. It isn't easy keeping track of all the crap that goes on and making sure that you only support worthwhile business practices.

But you can at least try.

Posted on: 2010/6/11 15:07
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Chester = pwnd

Posted on: 2010/6/11 15:05
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Crazy_Chester wrote:
The worst companies in the world employ hardworking secretaries and janitors. That doesn't mean you should support them. If a restaurant gave you botulism would you go back because it wasn't the hardworking waitress' fault?


Using your example, protesting at the gas station is like protesting at the waitress' house for getting botulism at the restaurant.

Why not protest the government or Detroit for making cars that still use gasoline.

Posted on: 2010/6/11 14:33
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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snowflake20 wrote:
This protest is just stupid. As if the hardworking person who owns the BP has anything to do with the oil spill? It would be like being angry at one of the secretaries who worked at one of the failed banks who were bailed out.


Another weak analogy.

Some of the money you hand to the attendant at a franchised BP eventually finds it way to the parent company's bottom line. Who does this franchisee buy from? Whose equipment are they leasing? Who does it pay fees to? Whose trucks show up to fill their tanks? Why does it say "BP" all over the place?

The worst companies in the world employ hardworking secretaries and janitors. That doesn't mean you should support them. If a restaurant gave you botulism would you go back because it wasn't the hardworking waitress' fault?

By the way - all gasoline is the same, so why would you spend a dime on the brand from the company that helped spring the Lockerbie bomber? I'll find the lesser of the evils. There are plenty of options.

Posted on: 2010/6/11 13:10
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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This protest is just stupid. As if the hardworking person who owns the BP has anything to do with the oil spill? It would be like being angry at one of the secretaries who worked at one of the failed banks who were bailed out.

Posted on: 2010/6/11 12:11
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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http://twitpic.com/1vn3p5

spotted that when i was on route to band practice around 5:45 pm.

Posted on: 2010/6/11 6:10
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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So? What happened? Did anyone show up?

Posted on: 2010/6/11 1:00
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Maybe you should present some facts. "Poor franchise owner"? Please. Like a gas station by the Holland Tunnel is some mom & pop operation.

"Two refineries owned by oil giant BP account for 97 percent of all flagrant violations found in the refining industry by government safety inspectors over the past three years, a Center for Public Integrity analysis shows. Most of BP?s citations were classified as ?egregious willful? by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and reflect alleged violations of a rule designed to prevent catastrophic events at refineries. "

Posted on: 2010/6/10 23:43
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Crazy_Chester wrote:
Well, then you keep working on that.

Anyone who buys from BP is simply a sap. A real boycott would hurt BP's bottom line, but that will never happen because ultimately Americans really don't give a sh!t about the things that they claim to. Their attention span is way too short. If there were a massive boycott of BP stations, they would be unable to open new franchises and their sales of oil and oil related products, as well as convenience store sales, would plummet. Stock prices would fall and debt costs would rise. As far as the poor BP franchisees? Collateral damage. Sorry folks, you hitched your wagon to the wrong pony.


How about you work on your logic. You hurt no one but the poor franchise owner who wasn't involved with the oil spill. And even if everyone was to boycott BP, where would you get your gas? Shell? Exxon? They've all done very bad things to people and the environment.

The real cause of the oil spill is much more complex. But it starts with us and our dependence on oil to maintain our way of life. And until there is an alternative fuel, there isn't much we can do about BP.

So stop with your silly talk of a meaningless boycott.

Posted on: 2010/6/10 22:15
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Since corporations are now considered people, why can't we lock some of these crooks from BP and the MMS Dept., for "corporate domestic terrorism"?

If the goal of a terrorist act is to inflict the most damage to human life and destroy our economy, I would say this is the mother load going on right in front of our eyes.

52 days and counting...............................


NOT TOO BIG TO JAIL!!!!!


Posted on: 2010/6/10 22:04
>>> IT'S TOO LATE.....<<<
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
#18
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Quote:

Adonis wrote:
Just bought 180 shares of BP. If you guys do protest make sure you let me know. Hopefully it will drive the stock down even further so I can purchase some more at an even cheaper price.


Thanks dude. I needed the laugh.

Posted on: 2010/6/10 21:11
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Well, then you keep working on that.

Anyone who buys from BP is simply a sap. A real boycott would hurt BP's bottom line, but that will never happen because ultimately Americans really don't give a sh!t about the things that they claim to. Their attention span is way too short. If there were a massive boycott of BP stations, they would be unable to open new franchises and their sales of oil and oil related products, as well as convenience store sales, would plummet. Stock prices would fall and debt costs would rise. As far as the poor BP franchisees? Collateral damage. Sorry folks, you hitched your wagon to the wrong pony.

Posted on: 2010/6/10 19:57
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
#16
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Nope

Posted on: 2010/6/10 19:40
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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Quote:

Farfromit wrote:
When you buy any car you support a company that produces a product that kills tens of thousands every year


This is your best analogy?

Posted on: 2010/6/10 19:39
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Re: Protest at Jersey City BP Scheduled for Thursday
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When you buy any car you support a company that produces a product that kills tens of thousands every year

This boycott/thread is pointless

Posted on: 2010/6/10 19:31
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