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neither is imaginary cheesesteaks (ignoring the fact that people going for pizza are going for pizza, and the price point is still lower than the imaginary cheesesteak).

And who says the profit margin is higher? Outside of rent, the product ingredients are incredibly cheap (and of low quality). That is why franchises are so profitable. The "food" arrives 'ready to serve', where the food served at the owner/operator cart/truck establishments we are talking about actually has to be prepared. It takes real labor (and skill) to produce real cooked food.

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How is it fair competition? Think objectively.

The weekday lunch crowd is obviously interested in fast, cheap eats. Brick-and-mortar fast-food restaurants like Cosi and Subway compete for many of the same customers as the trucks, but have relatively high overhead expenses. Because this ultimately has to be passed on to customers, they cannot offer products that are competitively priced against mobile vendors with much less overhead. They also cannot produce food of the same quality for the same price, even if they wanted to.

I grab a couple slices at the pizzeria across the street from my office about once a week. It wouldn't be fair competition if a food truck parked outside and sold cheesesteaks for $5 a pop. Many people on their way to the pizzeria, including myself, would probably be swayed. The cart would be taking advantage of a demand that was partly generated by the pizzeria, but at a much higher profit margin. What's fair about that? On the other hand, if a truck parked in front of Edward's there would be little if any competition (nevermind it's a bad location for a food truck).

Personally I would like to see places like Subway disappear, but for better or worse that's not relevant to the argument.

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pure comedy

the irony here is that cleanliness in the kitchen is often best reflected in the quality of food coming out of the kitchen, when one is not able to see what is going on behind closed doors. In the case of Grove area, I would be sceptical of so many crap restaurants, solely because of the sloppy unimaginative fare they are dishing out. Lazy with the food, lazy with the prep... could be lazy with kitchen upkeep and cleanliness as well.

There is zero logic to the argument that, "restaurants are more sanitary because they are stationary". The only relative factor is the staffs effort in the matter. Anyone has the potential to run a crappy kitchen, serve sketchy food and do so in an unsanitary environment. As discussed previously, it is actually less likely that these street vendors would do so because their work-space is so visible to the public. Most restaurant kitchens on the other hand operate entirely behind closed doors, making it impossible to tell how conscientious they are at making it a healthy environment for food prep.

this argument is inredibly stale, especialy concidering no cases of illness have been reported on here.

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Yes and the resolve is to get rid of the food trucks. Unsuspecting customers can get deathly ill from their unsanitary food and conditions where the restaurant is stationary and under the inspector's radar.

I understand that the impetus behind the push to remove street carts was actually restaurants feeling threatened. So much for fair competition. Shame on them. This needs to be resolved, asap.

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I don't know about setting the health system back 100 years, but is anyone really surprised by this whole thing? Buyer Beware, especially when ordering from a roach coach.

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If it wasn't for J.C. inspectors I wouldn't be commenting on this article...or even reading it.

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The U.S. health system is fine, Cletus Spuckler, it's the Jersey City system that has lackadaisical employees. You'd have nothing to loath and fear if J.C. inspectors were doing their job. (Well, I guess you would anyway.)

Maybe now you will understand how these 3rd World Asian foreign owned fly by nights operate their so called food establishments. They are setting back the U.S. health system over two hundred years. I especially like the thread from some time ago where a new couple were galavanting throughout J.C. Heights and stumbled across an Indian fast food establishment on Kennedy and even though they noticed a reeking stinking smell they still bought, went to Mosquito Park sat on a park bench took a bite and continued to reluctanly ate the rest of the item. Below are two threads concerning health issues related to the posting above. Read the most recent posting in both threads.


http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewt ... id=227830#forumpost227830


http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewt ... id=200623#forumpost200623

this certainly explains why i got sick after trying their super yummy fare ...

Boy that's scary. Glad I never ate from them.

Jersey City health inspectors shut down popular food truck

By Ken Thorbourne/The Jersey Journal
January 12, 2010, 9:00PM


Banana Leaf food truck will not be serving meals to hungry Downtown Jersey City patrons after city health inspectors said they found unsanitary conditions in the house where meals were prepared.

A popular food truck that does business at Exchange Place and other Downtown Jersey City locales was grounded yesterday after city inspectors traced the truck's fixins to a rat-infested firetrap, officials said.


"It was unbelievably filthy," the city's chief health inspector, H. James Boor, said about 318 St. Paul's Ave., the three-family building where the Indian food sold from the yellow Banana Leaf truck is prepared.

"We found mouse and rat droppings on the storage shelves where they were storing seasonings, rice and different food products," Boor said.

"There was even mice droppings in the containers with food. They had a glass-door refrigerator. But the glass door was so grease laden you couldn't see inside," he added.
Based on a tip, the inspection by the Mayor's Quality of Life Task Force was carried out at around noon.

Mark Redfield, chair of the task force, said customers would choke if they saw the conditions of the private home where the food was being prepared.

"We had food taken out of there was contaminated," Redfield said. "There was food kept in the cellar, a dirty, wet moldy cellar. Eggs were un-refrigerated."
Roughly 2,250 pounds of food, including onions, rice, lentils, potatoes, and various seasonings, had to be destroyed, officials said.

City officials immediately revoked the vendor license of Shaik Mohamed Manzoor, who lives at 318 St. Paul's Ave. with his family. The building is owned by Manzoor's brother, Shaik Mohamed Manzoor, who also lives there with his family.

Neither of the Manzoor brothers could be reached last night.

Shaik Mohamed Manzoor has held a food vendor license in the city since August 2008.

The task force -- comprised of representatives from various city agencies, including the health, building, zoning, and fire departments -- slapped the Manzoors a slew of charges.
Shaik Mohamed Manzoor was charged with creating conditions hazardous to the health of residents of the state of New Jersey and preparing food that will be offered for sale at an unapproved site, Boor said.

Each charge carries a maximum of 90 days in jail and a $1,250 maximum fine.

According to the law, an itinerant food vendor can only prepare the food at a licensed food establishment or on the truck itself, Boor said.

Given the grease buildup in the house, Redfield said the building is an inferno waiting to happen.

Plus, "They had all kind of gas lines hooked up," he said. "They were completely done illegally."

Redfield, who is also the city's assistant director for code enforcement, said his office issued violations for improper combustible storage in the cellar, excessive storage of debris, among other summonses.

The Manzoors are scheduled to appear in Jersey City Municipal Court 9 a.m. Feb. 4 to answer the charges.

I have reached out to these folks as well. Thought they might like to know what is going on across the river.

http://streetvendor.org/

This is truly pathetic that these food trucks have been run off.
What EXACTLY is going on here? Can someone get me up to speed on what the legal status is? Who can I contact?
We should get a petition up and deliver it to the Council, Mayor, the media, whoever. This is bullshit.

These are some of the worst economic times since the depression, and the city is running off food carts? This is how these folks make a living. I miss them and the food. I want them back and many more as well.

Portland Oregon has it going on with food carts. I have reached out to several people out there to find out if they can help us somehow by letting me know how and if the food trucks out there peacefully co-exist with the brick and mortar restaurants.

Let's make some noise about this and not just on here!


http://travel.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/travel/10Portland.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6-yUcjnhdk



http://www.foodcartsportland.com/

There is a man on Newark that has been selling hot dogs at the same spot for 25 years. He has put his kids through college selling dogs at the same spot. Moving every 20 minutes or so is just plain crazy. My lord there must be more important things to worry about than a food vendor on a corner.

Anyone know why the guy with the hot dog cart gets to stick around? And all the other vendors are gone? He does not move every 20 min.

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Lucinda, Krave and Louisiana Spice are still at Columbus & Grove as of last Thurday. Hopefully they'll still be there this week, what with the enforcement of this silly law and the snow on the ground.

So wait, nothing in the article aside from the title states that the trucks and carts are still out there, in violation of this admittedly stupid law. Are they "fighting this" or what? What happened Wednesday where this lady told City Council members she couldn't move in 20 minutes?

See Journal's video here:
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... und_by_local_law_jer.html

Pushed around by local law, Jersey City vendors push back
Jersey City food trucks keep serving the hungry

By Melissa Hayes/The Jersey Journal
December 20, 2009, 6:14PM

Food vendor Natalia Caicedo told City Council members on Wednesday it is impossible for her to pack up her business and move every 20 minutes.

She is one of the more than 100 vendors who sell food on the streets of Jersey City.

According to the city's law, vendors must move every 20 to 40 minutes depending on their permit.

But many vendors have grown accustomed to operating from the same spot, including those like Caicedo who frequent the financial district at Exchange Place.

On Friday, Dec. 11, Jersey City police told all of the vendors they had to pick up and leave.
The edict came after Ward E Councilman Steve Fulop, whose district includes Downtown, received complaints from businesses in the area that the law was not being enforced.

"I like those food trucks and I eat at them, but the law is the law, so I followed up and had the trucks moved from Exchange Place," Fulop said.

Caicedo said 20 minutes is not enough time to pack up hot food and relocate.

"I think probably it would be more appropriate for ice cream trucks," said Caicedo, who was the only vendor to testify at this particular council hearing. "They could move at any point. But for us we have hot pots. It's really dangerous, quite dangerous."

Aside from the city's ordinance, which restricts the length of time trucks can park, there's a larger issue: There are more trucks with permits than the 175 the city's ordinance calls for.

Jersey City Health Official Joseph Castagna, who was charged in July in the FBI's major corruption sting, is under police investigation for issuing more food vendor licenses than the city allows.

Castagna was suspended without pay in July and later retired from his post.

The police investigation is ongoing, but a source said Castagna issued more than 100 licenses above the 175 the city ordinance allows for. The annual licenses range in price from $100 to $250.

The council has created a committee to address the licensing and time-limit issue. Fulop is heading the committee that includes Council President Peter Brennan and Ward D Councilman William Gaughan.

The article only briefly touches on a deeper, more sinister war for the food trucks- the war between them.

Having observed these trucks dick around with each other for parking spots (blocking spots with personal vehicles, parking close enough to the corner to take up alot of room, but not far enough back for another truck to fit) and seeing what appeared to be collusion between several trucks to exclude another, newer, and by many reviews, much better value truck, it's safe to say that this is not all about the spirit of free competition.

I've observed screaming matches between truck operators. The police have gotten involved. They may be blaming Cosi & Subway but I wouldn't be surprised if that's a smoke screen. The fight amongst the trucks themselves has been going on since the summer.

One day two of the trucks parked in such a way that they took up most of the street, leaving a spot that NO RATIONAL PERSON WOULD EVER THINK a truck could fit between. In the most amazing show of parallel parking prowess I have EVER seen, Taco Truck managed to fit between his antagonists, leaving probably 6 inches in front and in back of his massive vehicle. I cheered.

Also, Taco Truck has a retractable awning to protect patrons from inclement weather.

I don't name the antagonists that were picking on poor little Taco Truck, but they know who they are. One of them had a total melt down one day when they tried to force Taco Truck to double park. Police were called & the offending truck was forced to make room for Taco. The proprietor went nuts on the cops.

Look deeper into this story my friends. This didn't all start just last week.

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I saw it on the Twitters for the Louisiana Spice Truck and for the Taco Truck. Check out their Twitters.

The Louisiana Spice Truck was at the Wednesday night Council Meeting. Steven Fulop is aware of everything.

Can anyone verify that it was Cosi and Subway that were able to get the food trucks chased at Exchange Place? I don't go to Subway at Exchange anymore. The tall thin guy at the register is very rude. Couple of weeks ago, I walked my Wife to the Path on her way to work the night shift at the hospital. So, we get a footlong to share to take out and I ask the guy if when he cuts it if he could please put them in separate bags. He said no he could not do that and didn't. I gave my Wife her half in the bag and wrapped mine in a napkin. What an asshole.

Has anyone been to Portland Oregon? They have several hundred food trucks, it's great. I love them there, I love them in NYC and I really was liking them here. So I want to find out why they were driven away, and if it was Cosi and Subway, I suggest a boycott of these establishments.

And Amy, speaking of a smell, Nan-king at Exchange Place emits nasty grease odors. It's horrible. Really makes me want to eat there....not!

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this doesn't make any sense. they do not need to have the truck anywhere in particular in order to clearn in it. they could do it parked on the side of the road, they could do it in the parking lot... they could do it while driving down the highway.

every single complaint about the cleanliness of our JC based street vendors on this board has been based on nothing but the idea that "they can't possibly be clean", which is rediculous. I would be more worried about what happens behind closed doors inb shady restaurants than what happens in highly vissible carts/trucks where these issues are much more visible to the consumer/public.

Food Trucks, Behind the Scenes

Serving meals on wheels might sound like an easy alternative to opening a real restaurant, but the mobile-food business has plenty of hurdles - and rewards - of its own.

Allison Perlik, Senior Editor
Restaurants and Institutions
12/17/2009

THE TACO TRUCK, HOBOKEN AND JERSEY CITY, NJ

The Food: Mexican fare, including crispy fish tacos and guajillo-marinated chicken tortas

The Operators: Jason Scott and Roberto Santiba?ez

Why would someone whose history is in higher-end restaurants go the other way and do a food truck? ?That?s where the world is going," Santiba?ez says. "We?re all looking into eating simpler, better, smaller foods that allow you to have great explosions of flavor in a smaller bite and don?t break the wallet.?

Some challenges you just can't foresee. ?The parking ? you would think, oh, you get there and you park. No, you have two guys going around with cars trying to save a spot two hours early, and then you don?t fit. Then the guy brakes and the oil spills from the fryer. Then generator is not enough and you have to save energy so have to cook w the lights off. Stuff like that.?

So what are the advantages? ?The mobility is certainly great.Your rent is very low, and one of the most important things is the immediate relationship from the cook to the eater.?

Once again, profit is all about volume. ?It?s hard because your price points are really low, so you?re always counting on the volume. So if that day the volume wasn?t there because your place of parking wasn?t the best, you?re hurting.?

Do you go to the same spots each day? ?We generally have to hit somewhere for lunch and somewhere for dinner. Right now we?re only in Jersey City and Hoboken. Fortunately, now we?re in same place every day. Someone goes in early, saves parking, then the truck gets there and parks. It?s never exactly the same parking space, but we?re on same block.?

You?re opening a brick-and-mortar version of this concept next year. Why do both? ?What you really need is a commissary kitchen if you want more than one truck. You need to cook somewhere. ? For the volume we?re thinking of doing, we?re not going to stay happy with one truck. So why not do a restaurant called The Taco Truck, and you can eat the same stuff there??

Marination Seattle

The Marination truck in Seattle serves Korean and Hawaiian fare.

Roy Choi's Kogi-truck glory sure makes the mobile-food business sound glamorous, but what's the real story behind the day-to-day operations of the country's growing legions of food trucks? To find out, R&I dished on the ups and downs of serving meals on wheels with three very different operators: a former Wall Street-er who was looking for a new gig, a chef who branched out into the mobile food business after helming an upscale Mexican restaurant group, and another chef whose truck is an outpost of her long-celebrated Santa Monica eatery.

Below, find out what Kamala Saxton of Marination in Seattle, Susan Feniger of Border Grill Taco Truck in Los Angeles and Roberto Santiba?ez of The Taco Truck in Hoboken and Jersey City, N.J., have to say about the most-unexpected challenges (like when the driver brakes so hard the oil sloshes out of the fryer!), the best spots to find business (farmers markets and the Google's campus are on the list) and why the mobile-food business is still a good idea despite all the hard work and red tape.

MARINATION, SEATTLE

The Food: Hawaiian and Korean cuisine, including kimchi quesadillas and Kalua pork sliders
The Operators: Kamala Saxton and Roz Edison

Why would two people with no restaurant experience partner on a food truck? "A lot of things changed for Roz Edison and myself in January," Saxton says. "The recession happened and we felt far removed from our existing investments, and we wanted to start something that we could do in a very short time period with limited barriers to entry. We have since found out that there are numerous barriers for a mobile street-food business."

Getting started was more expensive than they thought: Saxton wouldn?t share how much their investment was but said it was ?a sizable one. ? and was probably triple the amount we had forecasted,? despite the fact that they had talked to a number of people in the business beforehand.

Getting a permit isn?t the problem. The hassle is getting multiple permits. Not only does Marination have to get permits from every county in which it wants to operate, there also are permits needed from city departments such as health and transportation.

It?s all made to order ... ?Everything is made fresh in the truck. Prep happens in a commissary kitchen, and we take the marinated meats and tofu, load it onto the truck and we cook it. One thing we do cook off the truck is the Kalua pork, because that?s a 12-hour process.?

?on the move. ?We are in different location 6 days a week [for lunch]. They?re set locations, but different every day. Evening locations often vary. ? We do a lot of special events.?

The secret to booming business? ?Know which curb is the right curb for you,? Saxton advises. For Marination?and others?this means areas with heavy foot traffic, good street visibility and high lunchtime population density. Office parks have been a boon, as well. ?[Employees at] Google and Microsoft do get free food, but it?s a great area for mobile vendors because people are willing to pay if it?s different, unusual cuisine from what they have on campus.? Neighborhoods have been another surprising spot for success. ?I thought people wouldn?t stop at a food truck to take home food for their family,? she says?but they do.

What?s the key to profitability? ?Everything has to be accounted for,? Saxton says, adding that what a lot of people don?t take into consideration is that beyond typical food, labor, equipment and supply costs, mobile operators have to plans for things like vehicle maintenance, zoning and permitting costs, and running (and maintaining) a generator to keep the whole operation going.

It's a grind ... ?Every day, you are building your kitchen and tearing it down, and that?s taxing on your body?and on payroll,? Saxton says. ?We spend an hour to load [before service] and then we have someone who cleans truck for two hours at end of every service. For a really small kitchen, it?s a lot of cleaning and maintenance.?

... but?s all worthwhile: ?There isn't any disconnect between the kitchen and the customers that we serve,? she says. ?We love interaction with our regular customers, with new customers, with regulars who bring friends and family. And in this city when the sun is out, it is a true blessing to be outside.?


BORDER GRILL TACO TRUCK, LOS ANGELES
The Food: Latin favorites, including braised achiote-pork tacos and Peruvian ceviche
The Operators: Susan Feniger and Mary Sue Milliken

Why would two super-successful chefs and restaurateurs start a taco truck? ?We?ve talked about doing a taco truck for probably 15 years ? we just never focused on it,? Feniger says. ?It just finally got to where we saw this potential out there and thought, it?s such a natural for us; we should be doing it.?

Volume is all-important to serve quality food at low prices. ?Food costs can kill you, ? she warns. ?You?re talking about selling tacos for 2 or 3 bucks and using skirt steak and organic rice and beans and sustainable fish and salsa fresca you?re making fresh, and that is expensive, so if you?re not doing volume, you?re running outrageous food costs.?

Are trucks more profitable than brick-and-mortar restaurants? ?We?re trying to evaluate that. ? Before we dove into this, we wanted to see can you make money at this, because you?re not doing the kind of volume you do in brick-and-mortar restaurants and you do have different overhead.?

Where can customers find the truck? ?That?s the big challenge: How do you keep that truck as busy as possible? ? It takes a smart businessperson to book as much as we can so we don?t go spending hours somewhere just to do $500 in sales.? Regular stops include as many farmers markets as possible, local festivals, the Downtown Los Angeles Art Walk, and hot nightspots like The Brig on Abbot Kinney. Private, catered events are an essential part of the business, too.

? and how do they know where it is on a given day? ?We twitter, we have it on Facebook, it?s on all our Web sites. We try to be out there virally as much as we can.?

In the end, it?s all about branding. ?It?s an incredible marketing opportunity, and that?s part of what has to be weighted out in the whole picture. Maybe it isn?t a huge moneymaker, but when you?re out on the street people are seeing your name, it reminds them that we?re there.?

Cosi and Subway??? What a surprise...2 corporate, sterile excuses for eateries. Please people, boycott those chains. Subway is seriously awful, I actually have no idea why people get sandwiches there. A-1 is next door, just as cheap, bigger sandwiches, and better.

I'd rather have food trucks up and down my entire block than eat at Subway. The one on the corner of Columbus and Grove makes me angry, because that is a great corner for something worthwhile.

Only in Jersey City. It's a CITY, and food trucks are part of it. Brick and mortar places must learn to co-exist peacefully with food trucks.

I always so the Krave Truck in the parking lot across the street from City Hall. My question is if he keeps the truck in there where the hell does he clean it. It should be cleaned everyday. If it isn't being cleaned the health department should shut him down.

I heard that the food trucks were driven from Exchange Place last Friday by the police. The complaints came from Cosi and Subway.

Frankly, sandwiches are the last thing on my mind. I'll take the Louisiana Spice Truck or the Krave Truck anyday. Even if the trucks are not there, I wouldn't go to Cosi or Subway anyway. I'll go to the Liberty Tower Gourmet Market.

One time at Columbus and Marin, I saw a police car parked between the Krave Truck and Lucinda. The cop was eating a taco.

The city issues permits for food trucks, yet the food trucks cannot find a decent place to park to make a living. What's the point then?

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As if the steak in my food truck taco comes with an option for medium-rare. Is food even considered a real vector for those viruses? Come on. If you don't like it, don't eat it.

http://www.hudsonreporter.com/pages/f ... +are+those+food+trucks-+-


http://www.hudsonreporter.com/printer_friendly/4984306

Food carts: They?re ubiquitous. They?re convenient. Their food smells good, and it often tastes good, too.

But are they safe?

In this age of swine flu, bird flu, and SARS (remember that one?), should customers trust food that?s stored and cooked in what?s essentially an old truck? Is the food kept in a cold ? really cold ? refrigerator? Is the food cooked at a temperature that will kill any bacteria in the meat? And how do the cooks wash their hands and utensils?...
...Click on link above for full article.