Telecomreg wrote:
Fulop has to step up to the plate here. We have a reform slate (so far) under Manzo, a mayoral candidate who is a progressive on policy issues and a very hard and tireless worker, and City Hall courting Fulop big time because they know they're seriously vulnerable. Manzo's policies are almost all consistent with Fulop's agenda. In contrast, Healy has been a thorn in Fulop's side for four years. He's embarrassed our city over and over, and his city council allies have been nasty and unsupportive of Steve from the beginning. You should see the way Healy's folks are courting him now. Unfortuantely, I think its working. We can't wait four years so Fulop will be "well positioned" to run for Mayor. We need to sweep this city government clean of Healy now, with Steve as city council president to tackle the serious issues that we'll be facing. Waiting on the sidelines is not an option and is selfish considering what we will be facing. Its also a vote for Healy.

Ross_Ewage wrote:
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samual wrote:
Yes, no doubt I do have an agenda. However my goal is good goverment, and good goverment includes good people, and Jim Carrol is one of those good people. As to your views that the city doesn't benefit by supplying its officers with incentives to continue their education, which they do on their "on their own time": These views are simply not consistant with the policies that exist in many major police departments across our nation, where educational opportunities are offered to their police officers as incentives to them to complete this training on their own time. So, you don't agree with me that a police officer having a law degree benefits the city, well I continue to disagree with you for reasons stated in my previous post. However, what really seems to bother you is that a police officer can make an extra buck by maybe doing a real estate closing. Quite frankly this would seem more like jealousy on your part than a reasoned response.

I am happy you agree with me that Robert Troy was a disasterous appointment by Mayor Healy. And yes, a well trained police officer in all aspects of the law can save the city millions of dollars in civil liability. I am not implying that , its a fact, just look at the money which untrained police officers across the country have cost their municipalities in legal fees and punitive damages etc...

Well, of course I'm jealous - who wouldn't be? But what bothers me, and what should bother anyone interested in less expensive government (which I assume qualifies as "good" government) is that my taxes are paying for more than just adequate police protection, but for expensive, unnecessary, and essentially self-serving education which does not benefit the city.

A sergeant on the beat, behind a desk, or supervising the radio room (and whatever else they do) simply has no need for a law degree. None whatsoever.

Sending cops for homeland security training - good.
Sending cops for forensics training - good.
Sending cops to learn foreign languages - good.

Paying for cops' career changes when they start to collect their pensions - not good. The fact that "everyone does it" doesn't make it right. And as our economy continues to tank, is it so unreasonable to ask someone to pay for their own education? Especially someone who makes over $100k/year? Really?

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=data

"...just look at the money which untrained police officers across the country have cost their municipalities in legal fees and punitive damages etc". This points to the need for better on-the-job training, not the need to equip every beat copy with a J.D.

samual wrote:
Yes, no doubt I do have an agenda. However my goal is good goverment, and good goverment includes good people, and Jim Carrol is one of those good people. As to your views that the city doesn't benefit by supplying its officers with incentives to continue their education, which they do on their "on their own time": These views are simply not consistant with the policies that exist in many major police departments across our nation, where educational opportunities are offered to their police officers as incentives to them to complete this training on their own time. So, you don't agree with me that a police officer having a law degree benefits the city, well I continue to disagree with you for reasons stated in my previous post. However, what really seems to bother you is that a police officer can make an extra buck by maybe doing a real estate closing. Quite frankly this would seem more like jealousy on your part than a reasoned response.

I am happy you agree with me that Robert Troy was a disasterous appointment by Mayor Healy. And yes, a well trained police officer in all aspects of the law can save the city millions of dollars in civil liability. I am not implying that , its a fact, just look at the money which untrained police officers across the country have cost their municipalities in legal fees and punitive damages etc...

Ross_Ewage wrote:
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samual wrote:
Ross, yes you are correct when you say that Jersey City paid for Jim Carroll's law school.

Now I will tell you how Jim Carroll having a law degree benefits the taxpayers, which should be obvious to someone without an agenda. The City of Jersey City will pay for any police officer studying a criminal justice and law curriculum, this is contractual. Jim Carroll, a police sergeant has probably better than ten years to go before he retires. It certainly benefits the city to have its police superiors highly educated in the area of law, both from the perspectives of civil liability for the City as well as being highly trained in criminal law. Now, if Mayor Healy had recognized this, we would not have been burdened in the way we were with the appointment of Police Chief Robert Troy, who by the way has the city involved in FIVE very expensive law suits involving his improper actions. Count them again FIVE LAWSUITS.

Please stop throwing mud and inuendos at a guy like Jim Carroll just for the sake of throwing the mud. Think through what you are saying before you press the submit button.

Sammy, Sammy, Sammy

First and foremost - EVERYBODY (yourself included) has an agenda. Mine in this case is just to point out facts that may otherwise go unnoticed or unchallenged. Yours, apparently is to get Jim Carroll elected, and that's perfectly fine.

As for having attorney-cops, frankly, that's a stretch. Sure, police are supposed to understand the law, but they really don't need to go to law school (at what, $25-50k/year, and at taxpayer expense) to learn what they need. When was the last time you called 911 to negotiate a real estate closing? Seriously. So what if it's contractual? Is it right? Is it fair? My point is that the same system which allows multiple Gaughans on the payroll, will also allow Sgt. James Carroll, Esq. to collect a pension AND rake in attorney's fees.

Regarding Bobby Troy (a disastrous appointment, I agree), that's why the city has a law department, so please don't imply that having attorney-cops would have made any difference. The very idea is preposterous (x 5, count it 5 )

samual wrote:
Ross, yes you are correct when you say that Jersey City paid for Jim Carroll's law school.

Now I will tell you how Jim Carroll having a law degree benefits the taxpayers, which should be obvious to someone without an agenda. The City of Jersey City will pay for any police officer studying a criminal justice and law curriculum, this is contractual. Jim Carroll, a police sergeant has probably better than ten years to go before he retires. It certainly benefits the city to have its police superiors highly educated in the area of law, both from the perspectives of civil liability for the City as well as being highly trained in criminal law. Now, if Mayor Healy had recognized this, we would not have been burdened in the way we were with the appointment of Police Chief Robert Troy, who by the way has the city involved in FIVE very expensive law suits involving his improper actions. Count them again FIVE LAWSUITS.

Please stop throwing mud and inuendos at a guy like Jim Carroll just for the sake of throwing the mud. Think through what you are saying before you press the submit button.

Ross_Ewage wrote:
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mrrogers wrote:
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Ross_Ewage wrote:
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So Carroll's a police sergeant, an attorney (more than likely on the city's nickel), is running for paid political office, and the Gaughan's are milking the system?

Carroll is a police officer who will have to take a leave of absence to be a councilmen.He does not have any legal work with the city nor county.
The gaughn family on the other hand have at least six jobs and three free cars with gas in the family.Big difference.

Just to clarify, the "city's nickel" refers to his law school being paid for by the city, similar to Bret's Chief of Staff Michael Cook. How it benefits the taxpayers to have a cop who's an attorney is beyond me. So, he'll have his police pension to go back to. Does he qualify for another pension if he becomes a councilman and serves 4 -8- 12 years?

mrrogers wrote:
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Ross_Ewage wrote:
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So Carroll's a police sergeant, an attorney (more than likely on the city's nickel), is running for paid political office, and the Gaughan's are milking the system?

Carroll is a police officer who will have to take a leave of absence to be a councilmen.He does not have any legal work with the city nor county.
The gaughn family on the other hand have at least six jobs and three free cars with gas in the family.Big difference.

Ross_Ewage wrote:
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mrrogers wrote:
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samual wrote:
I happen to know Jimmy Carroll. Jim is a lifelong Jersey City resident who lives in the heights with his family. Jim who is an attorney is very community spirited and involved with the schools, and he donates his proffesional services to the church. Jim is a police sergeant in Jersey City and a fine example of the youth and proffesionalism that should be reflected on the city council. this was a very very good pick for a very important council seat by Manzo.

Could't agree more on Jimmy Carroll.He is a real nice guy who has done a lot of great things in the heights.Sixteen years of Bill
Gaughan are more than enough.Streets are filthy up there and Gaughans whole family is on the payroll.I will defenitly Volunteer
some time to help Jimmy Carroll knock off Bill(four jobs)Gaughan.

So Carroll's a police sergeant, an attorney (more than likely on the city's nickel), is running for paid political office, and the Gaughan's are milking the system?

mrrogers wrote:
Quote:

samual wrote:
I happen to know Jimmy Carroll. Jim is a lifelong Jersey City resident who lives in the heights with his family. Jim who is an attorney is very community spirited and involved with the schools, and he donates his proffesional services to the church. Jim is a police sergeant in Jersey City and a fine example of the youth and proffesionalism that should be reflected on the city council. this was a very very good pick for a very important council seat by Manzo.

Could't agree more on Jimmy Carroll.He is a real nice guy who has done a lot of great things in the heights.Sixteen years of Bill
Gaughan are more than enough.Streets are filthy up there and Gaughans whole family is on the payroll.I will defenitly Volunteer
some time to help Jimmy Carroll knock off Bill(four jobs)Gaughan.

samual wrote:
I happen to know Jimmy Carroll. Jim is a lifelong Jersey City resident who lives in the heights with his family. Jim who is an attorney is very community spirited and involved with the schools, and he donates his proffesional services to the church. Jim is a police sergeant in Jersey City and a fine example of the youth and proffesionalism that should be reflected on the city council. this was a very very good pick for a very important council seat by Manzo.

jmanny wrote:
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samual wrote:
I happen to know Jimmy Carroll. Jim is a lifelong Jersey City resident who lives in the heights with his family. Jim who is an attorney is very community spirited and involved with the schools, and he donates his proffesional services to the church. Jim is a police sergeant in Jersey City and a fine example of the youth and proffesionalism that should be reflected on the city council. this was a very very good pick for a very important council seat by Manzo.

If I am keeping score properly, weren't both Jimmy Carroll and Jimmy King both big Steven Fulop supporters over the past several years? In fact if my memory serves me correctly I think Jimmy Carroll actually allied with Councilman Fulop way back in 2007 and made a presentation to the city council regarding both the pay to play referendum and the dual job holder referendum. It would be great if Steve Fulop joined these guys and maybe we could finally some real change in City Goverment.

samual wrote:
I happen to know Jimmy Carroll. Jim is a lifelong Jersey City resident who lives in the heights with his family. Jim who is an attorney is very community spirited and involved with the schools, and he donates his proffesional services to the church. Jim is a police sergeant in Jersey City and a fine example of the youth and proffesionalism that should be reflected on the city council. this was a very very good pick for a very important council seat by Manzo.

mrrogers wrote:
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samual wrote:
Mr. Rogers, in post number 11 which you tell us that "Manzo's only shot is to make a deal with Fulop" then you ask "Anyone here (on the forum) think Fulop should back Manzo?

Now, in your most recent post you now complain that people are answering your "survey", perhaps not the answers you would have preferred.

In any event, I think Louis Manzo is an interesting and real candidate worth taking a look at. And, I intend to consider all candidates with the exception of Healy.

Samual as i just posted to your freind Omar its hard to follow along if i have to go back and reread my old post.Since its quite clear this thread will be here till may you guys may want to figure out how to quote.

Now to answer your statement i didn't dislike any of the answers.You just seem a bit to pushy on the Manzo front.

Its funny both Manzo and Schundler have both been Quoted as seeking Fulops support can you tell me how Manzo will do this.

omar wrote:
Calm down big guy. If you have a passion for Schundler thats great. However, you need to give him some money to run because he has none. In addition, if he does obtain some money to run wouldn't it be proper to pay off the $180,000.00 he still owes from his prior Gubernatorial campaign. I have read that the special interests and firms that had loaned his previous Gubernatorial campaign the $ 180,000.00 don't even want their money back. HMMMMM, wonder why, does "pay to play" ring a bell. Sorry, just thinking out loud. Oh, by the way has Schundler found anyone that will run for council with him?

samual wrote:
Mr. Rogers, in post number 11 which you tell us that "Manzo's only shot is to make a deal with Fulop" then you ask "Anyone here (on the forum) think Fulop should back Manzo?

Now, in your most recent post you now complain that people are answering your "survey", perhaps not the answers you would have preferred.

In any event, I think Louis Manzo is an interesting and real candidate worth taking a look at. And, I intend to consider all candidates with the exception of Healy.

omar wrote:
Mr. Rogers, you wrote:
Lou Manzo would have made a better State Senator than Sandy Cunningham,his wonkishness is best suited to trenton.Those same attributes may not be best displayed as Mayor.

1) Yes I agree, Louis Manzo would have made a better State Senator than Sandy Cunningham, and Louis Manzo would certainly make a better Mayor than Jerry Healy.

2) I disagree with you that the attributes Louis Manzo displayed in the Assembly would not be translate into a succesfull Mayoral term.

Furthermore, Louis Manzo seems to have a work ethic and a commitment to Jersey City, and HE IS SOBER. Jerry Healy has been an embarrasment to our city and hopefully he will be removed by the voters.