brewster wrote:
Quote:

sinik wrote:
Functionally Netscape added very little or nothing so I don't see how it changed peoples ideas except those of people who had no previous notion of what a browser was.

Yes, exactly. Those people were the overwhelming majority, thus the perception of Netscape as "the first browser", regardless of it's little known predecessor.

brewster wrote:
Netscape may have seemed a yawn to you, but people like you and I who ever used Mosaic are a very small minority. I'd bet most websurfers out there have never used anything but IE, never mind Netscape.

And I sat out the techstock boom, investing in real estate instead. I remember a broker friend at a Y2k new years party derisively knocking real estate's returns compared to tech stock. He lost everything but his condo. Buying rental RE in 1997 was the single best move of my life.

sinik wrote:
Functionally Netscape added very little or nothing so I don't see how it changed peoples ideas except those of people who had no previous notion of what a browser was.

You're confusing fact with theory.

This is a fact:
"Mosaic Communications Corporation on April 4, 1994 by Marc Andreessen and Jim Clark,"

This is a fact:
"Marc Andreessen and Eric Bina originally designed and programmed NCSA Mosaic for Unix's X Window System at NCSA. Development of Mosaic began in December 1992. Version 1.0 was released on April 22, 1993,"

This is a theory:
"Mosaic [is considered] to be the web browser which led to the internet boom of the 1990s.... the Mosaic software... made the web popularly relevant and touched off the revolution" ( p.xlii)."

A theory is "a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact."

sinik wrote: Enough? So credit where credit is due. If we are going to do the whole history thing we should get it right.

sinik wrote:
I remember using MOSAIC for the first time and the impression it made on me; I don't remember the first time I used Netscape. It was an annoyance to switch browsers because some pages could only be read by one or the other and Netscape required a license which was only available free on a temporary basis. Netscape never really won anything because it had to compete against MOSAIC which was free and then it had to compete against IE, which was... free. IE is now losing ground to Firefox because it is a better product... and free.

brewster wrote:

Unfortunately Sinik, history is littered with innovators that are forgotten and die penniless in the shadow of the paradigm shifters, who are thieves and copycats more often than not. Tesla vs. Edison, Philo Farnsworth vs RCA (TV), Xerox PARC vs Apple (graphical interface).

At least in this case the players were the same and got rich, until MS wanted their lunch. (Now THERE'S a company that never innovated anything but is credited with changing the world) But if the point is public perceptions rather than actual 1st innovation, I'd say Netscape wins. I remember just before the IPO getting a call from my millionaire investment banker brother asking me what a "browser" was! To me it was like then Bush 41 being astonished by a supermarket bar code scanner.

sinik wrote:
Sure, there were text browsers but Mosaic was the first browser to show images embedded in text as opposed to separate windows. It was Mosaic that showed people the possibilities. It was also the first browser ported from Unix. When Netscape came out it didnt really add anything. It was Mosaic that was the innovation. I am afraid it was not Netscape that changed the perceptions of what a browser was.

ianmac47 wrote:

There were "browsers" before Marc Andreessen and Eric Bina, and they wrote Mosaic before they wrote Netscape Mosaic, but it was Netscape and later IE that changed modern perceptions of what an internet browser was.

Scholars consider Mosaic to be the web browser which led to the internet boom of the 1990s. Robert Reid underscores this importance stating, "while still an undergraduate, Marc wrote the Mosaic software...that made the web popularly relevant and touched off the revolution"

Mosaic was the first browser written and supported by a team of full-time programmers, which was reliable and easy enough for novices to install, and the inline graphics proved immensely appealing. Mosaic made the Web accessible to the ordinary person for the first time.

Reid also refers to Matthew Gray's well-respected website, Internet Statistics: Growth and Usage of the Web and the Internet, which indicates a dramatic leap in web use around the time of Mosaic's introduction (p.xxv).

In addition, David Hudson concurs with Reid, noting that:

Marc Andreessen's realization of Mosaic, based on the work of Berners-Lee and the hypertext theorists before him, is generally recognized as the beginning of the web as it is now known. Mosaic, the first web browser to win over the Net masses, was released in 1993 and made freely accessible to the public. The adjective phenomenal, so often overused in this industry, is genuinely applicable to the...'explosion' in the growth of the web after Mosaic appeared on the scene. Starting with next to nothing, the rates of the web growth (quoted in the press) hovering around tens of thousands of percent over ridiculously short periods of time were no real surprise (p.42).

Netscape Mosaic had to be renamed Netscape Navigator. NCSA Mosaic and Netscape Mosaic were different animals. It is true that Netscape was the first attempt to commercialize the Web, however it was a step backwards as NCSA was always free and Netscape navigator had to be repeatedly downloaded every few months as the free temporary license expired. And we were talking about all this in the context of making Wi-Fi free for all weren't we?

There is no question that NCSA Mosaic predated Netscape Mosaic. There is also no question that NCSA Mosaic and Netscape Mosaic were different browsers even though some of the people that developed Mosaic Netscape had worked on NCSA Mosaic previously. NCSA Mosaic was the revolution

JSQ wrote:
it is unsafe to discuss billing matters over email: all of a sudden customers will reply with their credit card numbers, and email is too unsafe to carry that

2ndhome wrote:

Could care less about anybody knowing I look at porn (or not). Why does every conversation about right to privacy end up with a porn embarrasment discussion.

Govt run internet service is not a good idea. The reasons for this might not be obvious so your reach for the old "porno freak" argument. Try to stretch your brain a bit.

Also, can we see a pictue of earth during 100% daylight please?

well if you are looking at porn, I can understand your concern.

You were joking about the time when it is dark everywhere, right?
Not only that but when is it dark at both poles? I'm scratching my head over this one.

ianmac47 wrote: Quote:

sinik wrote: BTW browsers started with NCSA Mosaic not Netscape which was written by the same people. You are always a touch behind with your history.

From Wikipedia: The company was founded as Mosaic Communications Corporation on April 4, 1994 by Marc Andreessen and Jim Clark, and was the first company to attempt to capitalize on the nascent World Wide Web. It released a web browser called Mosaic Netscape 0.9 on October 13, 1994. Which is to say, Mosaic is Netscape.

from Wiki: This article relates to the browser produced by NCSA. For the browser that was renamed Netscape Navigator, see that article. Mosaic was the first popular World Wide Web browser and Gopher client. It was reliable and easy to install, which opened the Web up to the general public.[1] Mosaic was the first browser to actually implement images embedded in the text, rather than displayed in a separate window. Mosaic was developed at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA) beginning in late 1992. NCSA released the browser in 1993

sinik wrote: BTW browsers started with NCSA Mosaic not Netscape which was written by the same people. You are always a touch behind with your history.

ianmac47 wrote:
Also, as far as the image of the world, has no one ever heard of a composite image?

2ndhome wrote:
My feelings about muni wifi are mixed but in the current state we are in, I think its a way for munis to spy on what residents are doing / reading. No thanks.

JSQ is right...better be running a software firewall if you're going to use muni wifi.

I think that picture of lights at night is a fake. I have had if for years and still cant figure out when in the 24 hours of the day it is dark EVERYWHERE.

ianmac47 wrote:

A hundred and fifty years ago, all but the most advanced cities were dark by nightfall. Nighttime was a frightening place. The introduction of gas lamps, and later electric street lights changed our society forever. Now any parking lot in America provides free light to anyone passing by. What has happened as a result? Instead of bedding down at dusk, bars, restaurants, clubs, concert venues, movie theaters-- nightlife -- has become a staple.