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You'd think so, but lok at the arts - you will asume that most artists live in the Manhattan Villages, but there are artists in Downtown JC too. They are even in Newark's Ironbound, and probably they are even in Elizabeth and Camden. At least that's what they say when they want subsidized rent and that's why why the board has such an active "celebrity sighting" section.

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1) Most NJ residents who work in NJ commute anyway - we have the most complicated commuting pattern of any state

2) People in this area who work white-collar jobs usually move for their jobs - they base their choices on career advancement and money to be made, not commuting distance.

3) NJ is actually pretty good at providing white collar jobs.

4) Certain industries are mostly NYC-based (finance, media), and that's not going to change no matter what NJ does to attract employers.

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What?

You can go either way with my post - it can be seen how many jobs there are in NY, but ALSO the lack of jobs in NJ.

Or do those that commute to NY, love the PATH, buses and traffic congestion and the loss of time and expense to travel to work?

London started with a smaller fee and raised it. You can best believe that if it gets approved it will be increased at some point. If they made it revenue neutral (e.g. by eliminating one of the vast universe of NYC taxes) rather than yet another NYC tax I'd be a lot more supportive of it.

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Bloomberg claims that the NJ estimate is only a few thousand additional riders, so not a huge impact if he's right. This is because NJ driving commuters would only face a defacto $2 increase in their daily tolls, and this is not enough to change most people's minds about driving.

I think congestion pricing is great and long overdue. I do, however, think the charge should be something like $15 instead of $8 with ALL the money going into mass transit projects.

If London can do it, then there's no reason why NY can't succeed at it.

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No it doesn't. It highlights how many jobs there are in New York. Your conclusion highlights how poor your logic is.

I have no problem if NYC charged NJ commuters a fee to enter their state. It would be interesting to know how many Jersey City and beyond work in New York / Manhattan. It just highlights to me how useless NJ is in providing or attracting business and work for its tax paying residents especially in the white collar fields.

One thing that has been lost on this thread with respect to JC is that the congestion charge is to be $8 minus whatever the current tolls are. Since the toll at the Holland Tunnel is $6 this would mean an increase of just $2. I doubt this would drive too many people onto the PATH/NJ Transit. The big change would come from East River car commuters, many of whom would go from paying nothing to paying $8.

I think Bloomberg's plan is a good one. I would even say hike up the rate to $15 for all cars. Congestion in the city is ridiculous.

Grove St PATH Station - 8am Monday morning!

All aboard!

note above the 1st pillar (from the left) of the bridge and a person jumping off!

It's cheaper just to hire a few of these guys.



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The issue at hand here is that NJ Transit and the state of New Jersey should have addressed the capacity issues a decade ago. Consider for instance, the Pascack Valley line, a single track running from Hoboken through Bergen County to New York State. The line was scheduled to be upgraded to a dual track since the mid 1990's, but the state has failed to complete the task. Then of course there is the Hudson Bergen Light Rail line that was suppose to go deep into Bergen county bringing passengers to the ferry terminals and PATH on the Hudson River. Too bad the state hasn't finished this either. Congestion pricing will provide a financial incentive to build the mass transit system they state should have been investing in for the last 20 years. Further, the 15,000 new commuters will be a political incentive for local politicians to take action in addressing mass transit concerns. The only problem I have with congestion pricing is I don't think it goes far enough.

NJ transit and path are already overcrowded. This should highlight the state og the nj system. bloomberg has a good idea and nj just complians that they cant handle it. why dont they come up with a solution!!
all this new construction is going to overload an already overloaded system!!

I bet the consultant was paid heaps, when all they had to do is ask the question here on JClist, and we would have given them the same answers.

Be prepared to ride to work on your feet
Consultant says congestion pricing will add 15,000 riders to NYC-bound trains and buses

Saturday, June 23, 2007
BY TOM FEENEY
Star-Ledger Staff

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg's congestion-pricing plan would push about 15,000 people a day out of their cars and onto New Jersey's already over-burdened mass transit links to Manhattan, a consultant who has worked on congestion pricing in London said yesterday.

"Where are you going to put them on the system if that system is already at capacity or over-capacity?" the consultant, Stephen Rutherford, said during a presentation at a "transportation summit" hosted by the Meadowlands Regional Chamber of Commerce.

The answer to that question is the key to figuring out the impact Bloomberg's plan would have on New Jersey, Rutherford said.

Rutherford is managing director for the United Kingdom Transport Practice of the Jacobs Consultancy. The firm has been involved in forecasting and measuring the impact of London's congestion-pricing scheme.

The Chamber of Commerce has not taken a position on congestion pricing. The CEO, Jim Kirkos, said the group plans to study the issue carefully.

"Whether we like it or not, we need to discuss it," he said.

Rutherford told the Chamber of Commerce congestion pricing has been effective in London.

In February 2003, the city began charging drivers the equivalent of $10 per car to drive into its central commercial district, he said. The charge led to an 18-percent decrease in traffic entering the district, he said.

The congestion fee was raised to the equivalent of $16 per car in July 2005, and since then the traffic in the central district has been reduced even further, he said. There are now 22 percent fewer cars than there were before congestion pricing.

Economists estimate the pricing program costs the equivalent of $179 million a year and produces benefits equal to $358 million, he said.

The three chief problems critics predicted congestion pricing would cause in London have not been borne out by experience, Rutherford said. The technology used to capture license plates for billing purposes has worked fine, large numbers of drivers have not taken to parking their cars in the areas bordering the congestion-pricing zone and shoppers have not been so put off by the fee as to disrupt business in London's central district, he said.

"There's been a broadly neutral impact on the economy and business," he said.

Bloomberg has proposed charging a congestion fee for vehicles entering Manhattan below 82nd Street between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. Cars would pay $8 and commercial trucks $21. The fee for New Jersey drivers would be off-set by the tolls they pay at the Lincoln and Holland tunnels and the George Washington Bridge.

The plan has been embraced by New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer but has met resistance from lawmakers. The legislature adjourned Thursday without acting on it. Spitzer has hinted he might call them back for a special session this summer to take it up again.

Gov. Jon Corzine has expressed misgivings about the plan because he said the PATH system and NJ Transit's bus and rail lines would be unable to handle the increase in ridership the plan would cause.

London had the same issue, Rutherford said. The subway system was operating near capacity during peak periods and bus service could not handle the new load of passengers, he said.

So during the three years before the congestion pricing plan went into place, the city's transit agency, Transport for London, added hundreds of new buses and expanded service by 23 percent. Bus ridership has increased by 38 percent since congestion pricing began, he said.

Tom Feeney may be contacted at tfeeney@starledger.com or (973) 392-1790