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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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dtjcview wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Wow, false piety, I am deep touched by your concerns, dtjcview.


We've never met Yvonne. I like you - but rarely agree with you. That's nothing to do with piety.

But I think you are losing the plot a bit. Honestly - have a chat with your doctor. I sincerely wish you the best.


SF writer Robert Heinlein went slowly dotty, turns out he had a constriction in his carotid arteries. They reamed him out and he was...not quite good as new, his later work still sucked. But he was better.

How's THAT for a digression?

Posted on: 2015/11/10 4:25
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote:
Wow, false piety, I am deep touched by your concerns, dtjcview.


We've never met Yvonne. I like you - but rarely agree with you. That's nothing to do with piety.

But I think you are losing the plot a bit. Honestly - have a chat with your doctor. I sincerely wish you the best.

Posted on: 2015/11/10 4:18
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Wow, false piety, I am deep touched by your concerns, dtjcview.

Posted on: 2015/11/10 3:33
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote:
Well, I think it is bizarre that an election is moved based on 4%, even a recall requires 25% of voters.


Yvonne - think about what you just posted. This thread is about ending runoffs. Not moving the elections from May to Nov. Not about making sure the dead don't vote. Go back and re-read your posts on this thread.

I'm actually concerned for you and hope you are ok.

Posted on: 2015/11/10 2:48
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Well, I think it is bizarre that an election is moved based on 4%, even a recall requires 25% of voters.

Posted on: 2015/11/10 2:37
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Dolomiti wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
The dead and non-existed people did vote in Hoboken.

Please, spare us this bullshit.

You have absolutely no proof of that kind of voter fraud. None whatsoever.

It also has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic. Help me out here, who was it that said "People will say anything to justify an argument"...?
...


Zombies don't vote in runoffs I guess.

Yvonne - some folks have expressed the same concern. Are you ok? Some of your recent posts have been bizarre.

Posted on: 2015/11/10 2:12
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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for my part, just let me know what you want - i'm confused on what it is, just spell it out. i'm sure most of us will give it to you. really.

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Yvonne wrote:
No I am raising questions, I still remember former Governor Kean saying he wants to be buried in Hudson County when he dies because he can still vote. Yes, he was joking but he did not mention another county in NJ. There are 21 counties in this state. My error, it was Governor Byrne http://governors.rutgers.edu/on-gover ... nor-brendan-t-byrne-humor

Posted on: 2015/11/10 2:10
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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No I am raising questions, I still remember former Governor Kean saying he wants to be buried in Hudson County when he dies because he can still vote. Yes, he was joking but he did not mention another county in NJ. There are 21 counties in this state. My error, it was Governor Byrne http://governors.rutgers.edu/on-gover ... nor-brendan-t-byrne-humor

Posted on: 2015/11/10 1:56
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote:
Business on Wall Street get caught up on all types of schemes.

Changing the subject is still not a valid tactic, no matter how many times you try to do it.

We're discussing runoffs, not your fact-free aspersions on the County Clerk's office.

Posted on: 2015/11/10 1:31
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Business on Wall Street get caught up on all types of schemes. They are caught when something happens, why is government any different than any private business? Government may be watching over business but who is watching over our election lists? In the past, you had to have a reason for absentee ballots, now you do not need a reason. Reviewing the list of voters is legal, anyone can go to the county and see the list. You see who voted recently and who did not. Any one that works campaigns will tell you absentee ballots make the difference in an election especially when the election is close.

Posted on: 2015/11/10 1:13
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote:
Afraid of questions, Dolomiti?

Nope.

I'm simply not interested in indulging you in a cheap rhetorical tactics, such as changing the subject, or conflating self-aggrandizing innuendo with proof.

Posted on: 2015/11/10 1:02
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Afraid of questions, Dolomiti? Let me repeat, why aren't people removed from the voting list after they die? The county is in charge of issuing death certificates and knowing who is eligible to vote.
About 10 to 15 years ago, some people came into my voting district and gave the name of my neighbor. This particular neighbor only votes for president, he ignores the other elections. The person there used his name and when question immediately left without an argument. The people working the books also knows this particular person. I am referring to District E6 but I will not reveal this person name since he is a private person.

Posted on: 2015/11/10 0:52
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote:
The dead and non-existed people did vote in Hoboken.

Please, spare us this bullshit.

You have absolutely no proof of that kind of voter fraud. None whatsoever.

It also has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic. Help me out here, who was it that said "People will say anything to justify an argument"...?


Quote:
How many dead people are still on the voter's list?

Clerks' offices need to be careful when purging voter lists. Among other things, a poorly maintained list can disenfranchise living voters.

Posted on: 2015/11/10 0:34
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote:
The dead and non-existed people did vote in Hoboken.


Resized Image

Posted on: 2015/11/9 23:20
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote:
Why aren't dead people purged from the voter's list? The county knows who is dead because they are the ones who issue the death certificates.


Have you ever considered that you are not representative of the entire world?? Unlike your family, that has lived in the area forever, as you love to remind us, many people move away to other areas, states, or countries. How would the county go about purging rolls if they are not aware of someone moving away or dying elsewhere??

Posted on: 2015/11/9 21:13
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Why aren't dead people purged from the voter's list? The county knows who is dead because they are the ones who issue the death certificates.

Posted on: 2015/11/9 21:05
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote:
The dead and non-existed people did vote in Hoboken.
And I'm going to assume you have absolutely no proof of this Quote:
How many dead people are still on the voter's list? Someone mentioned to me that the late Glen Cunningham is still on the voter's list. I don't know if that is true but I always make sure I contact the board of election when a family member dies, I would not want them to vote again. Also, Cubans who were not citizens also voted by saying they were Puerto Ricans who are recognized as American citizens. Hoboken know to how to bend the rules.
I don't know how many dead people are still on the voter's list, but I'm going to guess that unless they have arisen from their graves, they are not voting. Same way that the right gets all in a tizzy about people sending in voter registration forms for "Mickey Mouse." Sure, but is Mickey Mouse even going to get on the voter rolls? Is Mickey Mouse going to show up and vote?

There are real concerns about elections in this country (see Kansas and currently Kentucky) but making up stories based on zero evidence just works contrary to any good work that can be done to strengthen the electoral process.

Posted on: 2015/11/9 21:03
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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The dead and non-existed people did vote in Hoboken. How many dead people are still on the voter's list? Someone mentioned to me that the late Glen Cunningham is still on the voter's list. I don't know if that is true but I always make sure I contact the board of election when a family member dies, I would not want them to vote again. Also, Cubans who were not citizens also voted by saying they were Puerto Ricans who are recognized as American citizens. Hoboken know to how to bend the rules.

Posted on: 2015/11/9 20:17
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote:
It make you wonder if the dead voted in Hoboken.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... tes_might_have_to_be.html


Only possible explanation

Posted on: 2015/11/9 20:05
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Here is a JJ article: Netchert said the state has plans to assign deputy attorney generals to work with each county to assess the situation. "Hudson County is bad ... Hoboken is all flooded, but what about some of these counties such as Atlantic County, they really got socked."
Did anyone really check those votes in Hoboken? It was soup bowl for a long time. It make you wonder if the dead voted in Hoboken.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... tes_might_have_to_be.html

Posted on: 2015/11/9 19:24
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote:
voting was extremely low due to Sandy. It had nothing to do with who was born in Hoboken. People left town, by the way, a good friend who lives there, an ex-pat from JC did vote no.


Turnout was actually not bad that year -- over 50% turnout in Hoboken for the presidential election (almost the same as the countywide turnout in 2008), about 40% for the questions on moving muni elections/getting rid of the runoff.

http://www.hudsoncountyclerk.org/elec ... 0Election%2011_6_2012.pdf

Posted on: 2015/11/9 17:20
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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brewster wrote:
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Yvonne wrote
In this case, the basic voter is someone that had no ties to city hall either family employment, board member, or committee person.


You do realize that description excludes most of the "Born & Bred" Hobokeners who opposed the change, and describes the newer residents who supported it?


What a stupid comment, voting was extremely low due to Sandy. It had nothing to do with who was born in Hoboken. People left town, by the way, a good friend who lives there, an ex-pat from JC did vote no.

Posted on: 2015/11/9 13:40
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Dolomitic, that was why it was called a "special election." Generally, a majority of ballots cast is needed for a win.

I never said that there would be no elected officials if there were no runoffs. I said there would be zero elected officials if the standard for winning was the majority of eligible voters instead of the majority of people who voted in each race.

Reading comprehension friend.

Last, tired of talking about something that might happen. I can already see elements of a campaign to engage the electorate. Press play.

Posted on: 2015/11/8 20:44
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote
In this case, the basic voter is someone that had no ties to city hall either family employment, board member, or committee person.


You do realize that description excludes most of the "Born & Bred" Hobokeners who opposed the change, and describes the newer residents who supported it?

Posted on: 2015/11/8 20:30
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Hoboken is my hometown. While many people I knew are not alive, I still have friends there and the culture of Hoboken has not change in terms of politics.

Posted on: 2015/11/8 20:29
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote:


In this case, the basic voter is someone that had no ties to city hall either family employment, board member, or committee person.


Didn't realize you had that kind of access to how people in Hoboken voted in 2012! Maybe you can share it here?

Quote:
How do you vote?


At the school near my house.

Posted on: 2015/11/8 20:16
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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terrencemcd wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Many people want that question off the ballot because they could not vote. Zimmer made sure her people voted but the basic voter was more worried about their homes and cars under water than an election.


What is a "basic voter"?


In this case, the basic voter is someone that had no ties to city hall either family employment, board member, or committee person. During Sandy, many people left Hoboken because their home was still under water. How do you vote?

Posted on: 2015/11/8 20:13
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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dtjcview wrote:
Not all variations of IRV require you to rank all candidates. And your earlier point about losing your vote is no different to a separate runoff. Let's say you vote for a dem on a field of 2 dems and 2 republicans. The 2 dems lose and the 2 republicans go into a runoff. Would you cast a vote in the runoff? With IRV - rank the republicans if you want to express a preference. Not ranking them is the equivalent of not voting in a separate runoff.

http://www.fairvote.org/reforms/insta ... tant-runoff-voting-works/


Glad to see you eventually gave up too. I underestimated the emotional power of this egotistical idea of setting a bar below which you will not cast a vote, no matter that there is no better alternative. As if there's anyone who cares you protested. Clearly she would not cast a vote in that hypothetical runoff. To me, that's a vote against Democracy, leaving the playing field to others less idealistic.


Posted on: 2015/11/8 19:15
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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Yvonne wrote:
Many people want that question off the ballot because they could not vote. Zimmer made sure her people voted but the basic voter was more worried about their homes and cars under water than an election.


What is a "basic voter"?

Posted on: 2015/11/8 18:44
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Re: J.C. Mayor Seeks To End Runoff Elections
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If you choose not to see the evidence of the influence of money in campaigns and how they choose candidates, then you are blind to facts. Personally, I think you are doing Fulop's work for him. I didn't say Fulop did not have loyal followers. But I did think they could think for themselves.

Posted on: 2015/11/8 16:32
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