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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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Bumping this old thread....

If anyone is looking at alternative siding products, check out Eldorado Stone. I ordered samples of their Roma brick line and it was the first time I got an engineered facade stone that looks and feels like the real thing. I am doing one interior wall with the product as part of upgrading a bedroom.

I am hoping that their other styles have similar authenticity. if so, I will be using this product (not the Roma brick) for redoing the outside on two properties in the future ($$$ permitting).

Allied Building Supply (near 440 Home Depot) carries the product.

Posted on: 2/20 13:19
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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EasyGibson wrote:
The poly stuff is pretty nice to work with. I'm sure you know, but for the benefit of anybody that may be reading, you can buy PVC in 4x8 sheets like plywood and basically build the way the original would have been, but now you have it made with a 15,000 year half life or whatever. Water damage no longer applies to you!
Stuff takes paint pretty well as long as you prime it nice.


I get 4x8 sheets from Harvey Building Products. PVC is easy to work with.

I really like viroc as well. Years back, I had windows that constantly leaked from vertical rain during storms. I replaced all the rotted out wood with viroc and sealed it. Eight years later and not a bit of deterioration. The only real downside is the product is really heavy.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 23:26
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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brewster wrote:


Either way, it's not a DIY for me. I'm not afraid of heights, I'm afraid of falling. Ladders are a leading cause of injury & death for middle aged guys!


I have contractor that does this stuff for me and I have two sets of rolling scaffolding in the basement. Working with full scaffold is pretty safe. I let the crew of guys put it up and I act as the gofer, picking up the material.

There is also a place on 1&9 (bought the scaffolding from them years ago) that will scaffold a project for you.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 23:20
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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EasyGibson wrote:
The poly stuff is pretty nice to work with. I'm sure you know, but for the benefit of anybody that may be reading, you can buy PVC in 4x8 sheets like plywood and basically build the way the original would have been, but now you have it made with a 15,000 year half life or whatever. Water damage no longer applies to you!
Stuff takes paint pretty well as long as you prime it nice.


Do you build in place or construct it on the ground and haul it up into place like they would with the fiberglass? Either way you're gonna need a good scaffold, which probably means a permit and expense. I don't think those hanging hook scaffolds would work for this job.

Either way, it's not a DIY for me. I'm not afraid of heights, I'm afraid of falling. Ladders are a leading cause of injury & death for middle aged guys!

Posted on: 2016/4/27 22:34
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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The poly stuff is pretty nice to work with. I'm sure you know, but for the benefit of anybody that may be reading, you can buy PVC in 4x8 sheets like plywood and basically build the way the original would have been, but now you have it made with a 15,000 year half life or whatever. Water damage no longer applies to you!
Stuff takes paint pretty well as long as you prime it nice.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 22:10
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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My plan is the install new cornice work on my Ferry st property. All the original stuff is covered up by aluminum sheets. Given the really poor state of the original siding, I am sure the cornice work is a rotted out mess.

I plan to use molded/ extruded urethane & PVC to rebuild it.

The sinews of good property development is infinite money.

I already rebuilt the back of the building using viroc sheets as the stuff is pretty much fire proof. One of my tenants set the back of the building on fire with an accidentally dropped cig. The job is about 90% done, it just needs the caulking, painting, and sealing done.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 8:12
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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Cheaper than repointing has always been my assumption. Kills me when they don't line the courses up with their neighbors.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 6:49
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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JCman24 wrote:
Those nice old cornices were made with mass produced ornamental wood cuts that were just tacked onto a backing board. In the context of today's standards they're beautiful architectural details, but at the time there was nothing very special about them. You can pick and choose pieces made of polyurethane as a suitable replacement: http://www.spectis.com/PDF/blocks.pdf



I priced getting fiberglass for my long gone cornice Downtown. The choices were beautiful, but 25' was about $5k, and they estimated a contractor would charge another $5k for installation! I kicked that can down the road.

My place up Palisade has brickface over brick, one wonders what the hell they were covering up?

Posted on: 2016/4/26 23:08
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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Those nice old cornices were made with mass produced ornamental wood cuts that were just tacked onto a backing board. In the context of today's standards they're beautiful architectural details, but at the time there was nothing very special about them. You can pick and choose pieces made of polyurethane as a suitable replacement: http://www.spectis.com/PDF/blocks.pdf


Posted on: 2016/4/26 22:50
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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Oh one last complaint about cornice removal and modern construction. Take a look at the CL ad again and look at the water staining under the window sills on the middle building. Cornices solve that problem by diverting the water down toward the gutter on the back of your property via the flat roof. This saves your window sashes and jambs for over exposure to rain and sun. Also gives you a couple precious feet to stand under if you get caught in the rain.

We used to do things for a reason that wasn't to squeeze every last cent out of a flip.

Posted on: 2016/4/26 21:25
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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The old joke is that vinyl covers "a multitude of sins".

Sometimes it was done when the house simply was overdue for a paint job and transitioned into a rental unit or the homeowners got too old to do the work. This is your best case scenario for restoring it. What you're now left with though is hundreds and hundreds of nail holes in the siding of a house that already needed painting. Not that big a deal, you were going to fill in the nail heads again anyway, weren't you? WEREN'T YOU?

Sometimes though, vinyl is last stop before complete exterior redo. I've pulled some vinyl off places hoping to find something salvageable but was met with tons of rot/insect damage/fire damage/etc.

Vinyl and aluminum are lazy and straightforward. Nobody is going to add any embellishment that they don't have to. Any time you see a weird bump out or a 45 degree angle at the top, you're guaranteed to find some neat architectural detail underneath.

Check this listing out:
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/reb/5524672727.html

Place on the left has something cool under the aluminum. Place in the middle and the right used to have something cool, but at some point it was cheaper to remove the cornice and finish the brick straight across than to repair. I don't fault them, but it's a bummer and brings the value of the neighborhood down.

Posted on: 2016/4/26 21:17
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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EasyGibson wrote:
I wish some hero would put forth some sort of beautification tax credit so that homeowners would have an incentive to remove their vinyl siding. There are gorgeous cornices waiting to see the light of day again.



Funny you should mention this - I always wondered if there were cornices hiding under the vinyl siding, I recently noticed a house on Hutton St with about a quarter of the vinyl removed from the top leaving the original cornice visible.

Has anyone gone through the process of fully removing the vinyl siding? Is it too costly + the risk of having brick in bad shape underneath?

Posted on: 2016/4/26 20:57
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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MDM wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:


Create a website to spread the word and start having meetings with Michael Yun and JC Planning to indicate this is something the community wants and needs.


Based on my interaction with some of the hipster crowd at the Central Ave development meeting.. there will be some fearsome push back to any changes in zoning that increases density.



Where the hipsters the Ogden Avenue-ites?

As is typical, which is why we need to form a voice of reason to counteract the misguided naysers.

The R1 zoning is doing more harm than good. Density is not inherently bad.


Posted on: 2016/4/26 18:52
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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I wish some hero would put forth some sort of beautification tax credit so that homeowners would have an incentive to remove their vinyl siding. There are gorgeous cornices waiting to see the light of day again.


Posted on: 2016/4/25 20:54
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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JCGuys wrote:


Create a website to spread the word and start having meetings with Michael Yun and JC Planning to indicate this is something the community wants and needs.


Based on my interaction with some of the hipster crowd at the Central Ave development meeting.. there will be some fearsome push back to any changes in zoning that increases density.


Posted on: 2016/4/25 18:23
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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You can count me in starting in late May when I get back from a trip.

Posted on: 2016/4/25 13:10
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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brewster wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
MDM, you should join our cabal of trying to bring higher zoning to the Heights.


Count me in, what is it you're doing about it?


Create a website to spread the word and start having meetings with Michael Yun and JC Planning to indicate this is something the community wants and needs.

Posted on: 2016/4/25 13:07
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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JCGuys wrote:
MDM, you should join our cabal of trying to bring higher zoning to the Heights.


Count me in, what is it you're doing about it?

Posted on: 2016/4/25 13:02
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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Applauds to MDM for trying something new and not sticking to usual vinyl sidings! The heights is so fugly due to all the vinyl shit. I wish the city would ban it as a cladding material. It just makes the neighborhood look cheap and depressing.

MDM, you should join our cabal of trying to bring higher zoning to the Heights. The current R1 zoning makes no sense, and it's leading to the destruction of modest 2 and 3 family housing units, being destroyed for 1 and 2-unit Bayonne boxes. It would be great if the area could be zoned similar to that R5 zoning that's being contemplated for downtown. A zoning change would promote diversity in the community, increase the supply of available housing, and help keep things affordable for new and existing residents. And would probably attract interest from developers to build more housing.

Posted on: 2016/4/25 12:46
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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MDM wrote:
Ugly was in back in the '60s.

Sure was. Anyone not familiar with the term should google 'Brutalist Architecture'.
Quote:

If this block ever gets rezoned R-2 / R-3 or the proposed R-5, I would love to see the place bought out, razed to the ground, and replaced with something more fitting for the neighborhood.


I have lots of teardown fantasies, but I'm not holding my breath.

Posted on: 2016/4/25 11:37
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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brewster wrote:
, but a lot is ugly infill built in the last 50 years. Even if well kept, it's hideous.


Someone a long while back posted an old promotional video for Jersey City made in the 1960s. One of the 'featured' new construction projects was a set of low-rise apartments down the block from my home. They are some of the ugliest structures in the Heights. Ugly was in back in the '60s.

If this block ever gets rezoned R-2 / R-3 or the proposed R-5, I would love to see the place bought out, razed to the ground, and replaced with something more fitting for the neighborhood.

Posted on: 2016/4/25 10:55
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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MDM wrote:
My first place I had done in vinyl. I was in my 20s, with a limited budget, and limited knowledge.... so I didn't know better and couldn't have afforded better regardless even if I did know better.


I can say the same thing word for word about flooring! (except for the 20's part) Did a couple of units in vinyl sheet and vowed never to do it again.

It's sad, there's stunning properties in the Heights right next to dogs. But it's still block to block, and some are fantastic. Some of the Height's ugly can be fixed with work like MDM is doing, but a lot is ugly infill built in the last 50 years. Even if well kept, it's hideous.

Posted on: 2016/4/24 21:07
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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EasyGibson wrote:
Vinyl siding is blight. I don't understand how so many people fell for it.



My first place I had done in vinyl. I was in my 20s, with a limited budget, and limited knowledge.... so I didn't know better and couldn't have afforded better regardless even if I did know better.

However, my originally dark green asphalt shingled shit box looked a hell of a lot better after 3 days of work by a small team of installers. Vinyl goes up quick and doesn't cost that much, which is its appeal.

I should dig out a pick of this place.... it really did look horrible. However, it only cost me something around $85k (about $125k in today's $$$). Reeked of stale curry when I bought it though.


Posted on: 2016/4/24 20:16
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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[quote]
EasyGibson wrote:

Anyways, hard to say what to do without seeing the places, but if they're stick framed, why not do what they'd have done in that era and do wood siding? I'm guessing it'd have been shiplapped or clapboard.

/quote]

I have a property with wood siding in Vermont (clapboard). The issues:

Cost of the materials

Not paint stable like fiber cement. You have to paint / stain at least once every 5 to 7 years.

Difficulty in finding the same product when replacing damaged siding. The original tongue-grove siding, which was over 1.5 inches thick on the VT house stop being made long before I was born.

Carpenter ants, bold faced hornets, and other vermin like wood.

I like the looks of the past Victorian & Art & Craft eras. In fact, I consider the utilitarian architecture that came out of the late '60s to mid '70s to be an pox on humanity as a whole. However... I really like modern engineered materials when it comes to cost vs. durability.

Posted on: 2016/4/24 20:08
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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First, I applaud you for doing something about the exterior of your home.

My wife and I decided years ago that the Heights is simply just too ugly to live in. I'm sure with owners like you making decisions like these, someday it will be beautiful, but I don't have that kind of time. Vinyl siding is blight. I don't understand how so many people fell for it.

Anyways, hard to say what to do without seeing the places, but if they're stick framed, why not do what they'd have done in that era and do wood siding? I'm guessing it'd have been shiplapped or clapboard.

If you're set on using a cement product, I'll also throw my vote to Hardi. It installs well and gives the closest look to real wood out of all the engineered products. Holds up well, doesn't buckle, stays looking good as long as you keep it painted nice.
I've installed quite a bit of it and never had a call back or customer complaint.

Posted on: 2016/4/24 19:40
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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MDM wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
It's attractive enough on it's own, but like I said, personally I think matching the intact original masonry houses of JC is a better plan for resale value, especially if there are lots of them on the block.



The properties in question are both in the Heights. This place (housing looks wise) is tundra. Anything you do is an improvement. The area is nice to live in, but the housing stock with a few exceptions, is pretty ugly.


Yes, much of the heights is sadly, um, "aesthetically impaired". And the infill is not helping. You could set a new standard!

Posted on: 2016/4/24 18:39
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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brewster wrote:
It's attractive enough on it's own, but like I said, personally I think matching the intact original masonry houses of JC is a better plan for resale value, especially if there are lots of them on the block.



The properties in question are both in the Heights. This place (housing looks wise) is tundra. Anything you do is an improvement. The area is nice to live in, but the housing stock with a few exceptions, is pretty ugly.

Posted on: 2016/4/24 18:22
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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It's attractive enough on it's own, but like I said, personally I think matching the intact original masonry houses of JC is a better plan for resale value, especially if there are lots of them on the block. Tenants don't care as much as long as it's well done, and even then, their unit is FAR more important than the exterior for most.

Posted on: 2016/4/24 18:14
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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brewster wrote:
Are we talking facades or sides? Brick facade might be worth the trouble in future value and look.



I was planning on using brick on an interior wall in what will one day be the master bedroom.

For the exterior, I was planning on something that looks like stone of some sort. The sample I ordered was the 'Blue Stone Canyon Stone'.

Catalog page showing the stone.


Picture of the sample. Quarter there for scale:

Resized Image



Posted on: 2016/4/24 16:59
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Re: I hate vinyl siding! Altenatives?
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Are we talking facades or sides? Brick facade might be worth the trouble in future value and look. I've always had the opinion to stay with classic finishes. Laminate flooring is just a picture of wood, but I always do oak or similar. People see it and think "oak floor" not "what the hell is that, is it fake?". Same for fake masonry. No one has ever seen a genuine full height rubblestone facade. They see brick.

I'd do something like this from advancedrock on the facade:
Resized Image


Sides it seems no one is as picky. Place on my block used the cement board, looks fine.

This house on Baldwin always catches my eye, it's a damn good brick shingle job, though badly maintained. https://goo.gl/maps/xvrWHHFTDTR2

Posted on: 2016/4/24 16:23
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