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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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The World Trade Center is only just starting to fill up with tenants. Another two years and there will be a lot more office workers headed to jobs at 1 World Trade.

In the mid-term period, several things will happen that will probably change commuting patterns. The other WTC towers will be completed and tenants will move in, drawing more commuters to the WTC. When WTC station is finished, the connections to the subways will be more efficient, and probably that will attract more people going through Fulton Street, or even just making a better connection to the A to get to places along the west side.
Also if Grand Central gets more denser office space, passing through the WTC to the 4,5 is a fairly attractive commuter route.

As the West Side Rail yards is developed, some of those workers might end up taking the ferry instead of the subway.

Longer term, there will probably be more office development in Hoboken and Newark. The new Prudential tower will free up office space in Gateway center, so even though Prudential is only adding a few hundred jobs, their old space is going to fill with new offices. Also the NJTransit redevelopment in Hoboken will bring more jobs to the transit hub there, and commuters from JC to Hoboken will either end up on the light rail or mostly traveling in the reverse direction of most commuters.

Posted on: 2015/2/19 17:38
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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Great idea!

And I am sure some consulting company will make a few million bucks to come up with the same EXACT idea for the bid wigs at the Port Authority.

Quote:

itgirl wrote:
Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
In the morning I think there are two WTC trains for every 33rd St train. The second WTC train is usually pretty empty, and the 33rd St train is always packed. This should be reconsidered.

Coming home in the evenings - and this has been complained about a lot - the Hoboken-bound trains are pretty empty while the JSQ-bound trains are really, really packed - especially after about 7:00 pm. Jersey City has grown exponentially more than Hoboken has in the past 10 years, and the ratio of trains has remained the same.

Seriously, the solution is simple, just send out more JSQ-33rd trains, even if it means lessening the frequency of some of the other lines. That line is where most of the growth is, and will continue to be.


The 33-JSQ trains are unbearable between 6:30 and 8 p.m.

I've suggested before that the trains from 33rd Street should all terminate in JSQ, meaning that the train on the Hoboken side should operate as the weekend train does (HOB/JSQ). There wouldn't be a reduction of service on the Hoboken side, since their stop is the first after NY, and it would relieve some of the crowding on the direct to JSQ trains. I think this would be the most logical solution for the increased ridership anticipated with the new developments.

Posted on: 2015/2/19 16:54
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
In the morning I think there are two WTC trains for every 33rd St train. The second WTC train is usually pretty empty, and the 33rd St train is always packed. This should be reconsidered.

Coming home in the evenings - and this has been complained about a lot - the Hoboken-bound trains are pretty empty while the JSQ-bound trains are really, really packed - especially after about 7:00 pm. Jersey City has grown exponentially more than Hoboken has in the past 10 years, and the ratio of trains has remained the same.

Seriously, the solution is simple, just send out more JSQ-33rd trains, even if it means lessening the frequency of some of the other lines. That line is where most of the growth is, and will continue to be.


The 33-JSQ trains are unbearable between 6:30 and 8 p.m.

I've suggested before that the trains from 33rd Street should all terminate in JSQ, meaning that the train on the Hoboken side should operate as the weekend train does (HOB/JSQ). There wouldn't be a reduction of service on the Hoboken side, since their stop is the first after NY, and it would relieve some of the crowding on the direct to JSQ trains. I think this would be the most logical solution for the increased ridership anticipated with the new developments.

Posted on: 2015/2/18 22:50
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Isn't it simply (if I remember correctly something I do all the time) that you don't go through a turnstile to exit at 33rd? Certainly not if you walk up the ramp.



Yeah, that is probably it.

Posted on: 2015/2/18 21:40
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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Isn't it simply (if I remember correctly something I do all the time) that you don't go through a turnstile to exit at 33rd? Certainly not if you walk up the ramp.

Quote:

moobycow wrote:
Looking into the data a bit more it's interesting that as entries go the combined 33rd st lines in NYC had almost 20,000 more riders than the WTC station on the AVG weekday (though WTC had the same at peak, 5pm)

What I also found strange is that the system as a whole had 12,000 less exits than entries (per day), which calls the data into a bit of question.

The 33rd St line NYC stations as a whole (Christ, 9, 14, 23, 33) seem to have a bit more than 5,000 less exits than entries each day, which suggests exits are probably being under counted by a good margin at peak periods. The WTC station is within 200.


Posted on: 2015/2/18 21:29
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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Looking into the data a bit more it's interesting that as entries go the combined 33rd st lines in NYC had almost 20,000 more riders than the WTC station on the AVG weekday (though WTC had the same at peak, 5pm)

What I also found strange is that the system as a whole had 12,000 less exits than entries (per day), which calls the data into a bit of question.

The 33rd St line NYC stations as a whole (Christ, 9, 14, 23, 33) seem to have a bit more than 5,000 less exits than entries each day, which suggests exits are probably being under counted by a good margin at peak periods. The WTC station is within 200.


Posted on: 2015/2/18 21:11
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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Quote:

neverleft wrote:
The PANYNJ link has ridership by station month/hour data for 2012 to 2015. Interesting.

Traffic & Volume Information

http://www.panynj.gov/path/statistics.html


Ridership was up overall considerably for the year 2014 over 2013, despite being significantly down at Exchange Place and WTC due to the weekend closures. (Ridership was up at every other station.) Of course, a little bit of that is weekend WTC/Exchange Place riders relocating to other stations, but it's still pretty dramatic. (Weekday ridership was up in most stations, but down considerably at Exchange Place and slightly at Newark and Newport.)

On the other hand, ridership was down in January 2015 on January 2014, though it's hard to draw many conclusions from one month.

Posted on: 2015/2/18 21:03
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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Quote:

neverleft wrote:
The PANYNJ link has ridership by station month/hour data for 2012 to 2015. Interesting.

Traffic & Volume Information

http://www.panynj.gov/path/statistics.html


Anyone bored/motivated enough to dig into MTA numbers and find the most comparable, single line stations by entry volume at peak hours?

I'm very curious to see what the train capacity is on the MTA side compared to PATH.

Posted on: 2015/2/18 20:56
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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Quote:

moobycow wrote:
Really though, someone from the PA needs to take a few weeks taking the trains at various times to better understand how crowded they are.


it really is amazing that companies that best know their customers are the most successful. perhaps the PA should take a page out of their book, as you suggest (and i agree)

Posted on: 2015/2/18 20:55
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:

Seriously, the solution is simple, just send out more JSQ-33rd trains, even if it means lessening the frequency of some of the other lines. That line is where most of the growth is, and will continue to be.


The WTC station has more exits for peak periods than Christopher, 9th, 14th, 23rd and 33rd combined but the issue is, as you say, that the JSQ-33rd is more than the Hoboken --> 33rd.

That data is pretty hard to unpack from the station usage because you don't know where people are headed when they swipe in. Maybe Hoboken --> WTC ridership is more?

This is why they need actual train surveys as opposed to just using the terminals.

Posted on: 2015/2/18 20:54
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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The PANYNJ link has ridership by station month/hour data for 2012 to 2015. Interesting.

Traffic & Volume Information

http://www.panynj.gov/path/statistics.html

Posted on: 2015/2/18 20:13
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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In the morning I think there are two WTC trains for every 33rd St train. The second WTC train is usually pretty empty, and the 33rd St train is always packed. This should be reconsidered.

Coming home in the evenings - and this has been complained about a lot - the Hoboken-bound trains are pretty empty while the JSQ-bound trains are really, really packed - especially after about 7:00 pm. Jersey City has grown exponentially more than Hoboken has in the past 10 years, and the ratio of trains has remained the same.

Seriously, the solution is simple, just send out more JSQ-33rd trains, even if it means lessening the frequency of some of the other lines. That line is where most of the growth is, and will continue to be.

Posted on: 2015/2/18 20:10
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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I get on in the spot where I think there will be the most room. The extra 30 seconds of walking is worth not spending 20min jammed in like a sardine.

The PATH is crowded, but I tend to find that there is always room as long as you're willing to walk to a car further down the line (and as long as there aren't delays).

As for usage stats, I know they are releasing the turn style data soon for OpenJC to take a look at and use so that should be helpful.

Really though, someone from the PA needs to take a few weeks taking the trains at various times to better understand how crowded they are. I'd be happy to take a picture for them if it wouldn't get me arrested.

Posted on: 2015/2/18 19:59
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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Quote:

Sommerman wrote:
Quote:

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
Quote:

NewportNJ wrote:
All I know is that as hard as it is now to get on the 33rd trains during the morning rush at Grove & Newport, once Journal Squared is complete and rented, it will be 100x worse because every single train that leaves JSQ will be already fully packed.

Do you think the people downstream will have a chance of ever getting on?

NOPE.

Is there an hour-by-hour study of crowding on PATH trains? I ask because I take PATH from JSQ or Hoboken to WTC, usually aiming to get on the train around 9:00am to get to my office for 9:30. There is almost always space - and often a seat - on those trains, and from what I see ample room on the 33rd Street bound trains.

If this information were available, maybe people could adjust their schedules to miss the worst of the morning crush.


Also, not all cars are equally full. I think this has something to do with where the entrances to the platform are at NWK and JSQ - but just a guess.


I get on the train car that stops closest to the exit in the station where I get off. I bet I'm not the only one that does this.

Posted on: 2015/2/18 18:49
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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I take the NWK-WTC line. The worst of the crowding appears to be between 8:30 and 9am and even then it's limited to certain cars closer to the entrance.

I've adjusted my time to 8am and the crowds have been much lower. I've also adjusted which car I take, so all in all, no issues.

Posted on: 2015/2/18 17:37
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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Quote:

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
Quote:

NewportNJ wrote:
All I know is that as hard as it is now to get on the 33rd trains during the morning rush at Grove & Newport, once Journal Squared is complete and rented, it will be 100x worse because every single train that leaves JSQ will be already fully packed.

Do you think the people downstream will have a chance of ever getting on?

NOPE.

Is there an hour-by-hour study of crowding on PATH trains? I ask because I take PATH from JSQ or Hoboken to WTC, usually aiming to get on the train around 9:00am to get to my office for 9:30. There is almost always space - and often a seat - on those trains, and from what I see ample room on the 33rd Street bound trains.

If this information were available, maybe people could adjust their schedules to miss the worst of the morning crush.


Also, not all cars are equally full. I think this has something to do with where the entrances to the platform are at NWK and JSQ - but just a guess.

Posted on: 2015/2/18 17:22
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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Quote:

NewportNJ wrote:
All I know is that as hard as it is now to get on the 33rd trains during the morning rush at Grove & Newport, once Journal Squared is complete and rented, it will be 100x worse because every single train that leaves JSQ will be already fully packed.

Do you think the people downstream will have a chance of ever getting on?

NOPE.

Is there an hour-by-hour study of crowding on PATH trains? I ask because I take PATH from JSQ or Hoboken to WTC, usually aiming to get on the train around 9:00am to get to my office for 9:30. There is almost always space - and often a seat - on those trains, and from what I see ample room on the 33rd Street bound trains.

If this information were available, maybe people could adjust their schedules to miss the worst of the morning crush.

Posted on: 2015/2/18 17:10
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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maybe they could squeeze in a harrson, grove-pavonia - manhattan train?

Posted on: 2015/2/18 15:18
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Re: 13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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All I know is that as hard as it is now to get on the 33rd trains during the morning rush at Grove & Newport, once Journal Squared is complete and rented, it will be 100x worse because every single train that leaves JSQ will be already fully packed.

Do you think the people downstream will have a chance of ever getting on?

NOPE.

Posted on: 2015/2/18 14:56

Edited by NewportNJ on 2015/2/18 15:20:22
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13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
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13 major development projects that could change N.J.'s skyline
By Kathryn Brenzel | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
on February 18, 2015 at 8:00 AM, updated February 18, 2015 at 8:50 AM

JERSEY CITY--The state has recently seen an uptick in new residential construction, especially along the northeastern coast.

Developers told NJ Advance Media that the increase is largely due to the improved economy and the desire of younger generations to be closer to New York City and mass transit. This is evident in Jersey City's Journal Square, which is seeing renewed interest among developers. Journal Squared is a planned three-tower project that will bring 1,840 units to the area. The city could also soon be home to the tallest building in the state--a 950 foot-tower planned for 99 Hudson Street.

Nj.com piece ...

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ange_nj.html#incart_river

Posted on: 2015/2/18 14:01
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