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Re: Teachers union boss criticizes Fulop in letter to members
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Quite a regular
 
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Newtothearea wrote: There is nothing wrong with holding teachers accountable. But doing that based on test results is f-ing retarded. The following is an excerpt from an article in the New Yorker by Malcom Gladwell: "A teacher is not solely responsible for how much is learned in a classroom, and not everything of value that a teacher imparts to his or her students can be captured on a standardized test. Nonetheless, if you follow Brown and Smith [two teachers] for three or four years, their effect on their students? test scores starts to become predictable: with enough data, it is possible to identify who the very good teachers are and who the very poor teachers are." http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/20 ... ct_gladwell?currentPage=2 The point being, although it may be difficult you can decipher the good from the bad teachers. The data actually does show that test scores are of some value in determining who are good teachers and that some teachers do better than others improving test scores. This article discusses the difficulty of picking out the good teachers from the bad, but it can be done. Also, kids with strong support networks, like the upper middles class, can overcome having a year with a bad teacher. A poorer student, with no social support structure cannot afford to lose that year or they likely will not recover academically. Teachers matter, and some kids get stuck with bad teachers. Therefore, limiting the ability to fire bad teachers dooms kids in poor neighborhoods to failure. We can debate whose fault that is, but it is a fact. Even worse, you have a concentration of bad teachers in poorer school districts with no way to get rid of them because of tenure. The tougher school systems get the worst teachers. The suburban districts pay more and find ways to remove bad teachers. Poorer districts are too desperate for teachers and do not have parents groups demanding better teachers, so that is where they end up. We are dooming these students to failure. This may not be the teachers' fault, per se, but in many cases they are part of the problem and not part of the solution. Who, but a bad teacher, would desperately cling to tenure? The teachers unions represent good teachers and bad, they all pay dues. The teachers union must protect bad teachers, that is their function. They owe no allegiance and have no interest in the education of children. Their incentives are to protect teachers, nothing more. So they are dead wrong on this issue.
Posted on: 2009/5/7 17:16
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Re: Teachers union boss criticizes Fulop in letter to members
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Home away from home
 
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This is also my impression: more than anything, what separates good school districts from bad ones is the percentage of kids in the school system that actually want to learn, or conversely, the percentage of kids that prevent others from learning. The best teachers in the world won't make much of an impact on a class full of kids that don't want to learn or a class where a few kids don't let the rest of them learn. The reason charter schools work is not because there's something inherently better about them, but rather, its because parents who care about their children's education send their kids there, and consequently a higher proportion of the student body are kids that want to learn.
Posted on: 2009/5/7 16:25
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Re: Teachers union boss criticizes Fulop in letter to members
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Home away from home
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GrovePath wrote:
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Is Baker an attorney? Because this seems like a pretty shallow First Amendment analysis if that's all there is to it. In context, Favia's letter is clearly intended to influence the election, and it did not originate from the union PAC. I call shenanigans.
Posted on: 2009/5/7 16:12
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Re: Teachers union boss criticizes Fulop in letter to members
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Just can't stay away
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There is nothing wrong with holding teachers accountable. But doing that based on test results is f-ing retarded. My wife is an elementary teacher, but not in NJ, although I'm sure it's pretty much the same everywhere. The nonsense that goes on is sickening. The parents have all of the power. And although some parents are good parents, there are so many that should have their kids taken away and then put in prison.
But yes, she also tells me about some teachers and how absolutely terrible they are. So, obviously there should be some kind of oversight.
Posted on: 2009/5/7 15:59
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Re: Teachers union boss criticizes Fulop in letter to members
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Home away from home
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Yea, blame the teachers' tenures, not the fact that some kids that go to our schools are total failures along with their parents. One has to want to learn in order to be taught something. Urban schools in NJ are held to more stringent rules and regulations then any other schools. The curriculum is practically spoon fed to the students. A friend of mine teaches at a high school in East Orange. Her students aren't allowed to use rulers, because they'll use them to "joust". Books need to be kept on a shelf away from the students because they will hit each other over the head with them. Those books are only taken out for reading specific paragraphs. In order to present new information, she has to engage the multiple intelligences based on Gardner's theories. And guess what, despite her hard work and following all the rules mandated by the state, the kids are still failing standardized tests. Simply put, they are losers. They don't give a crap about their teachers or the society they live in. But, of course, its all our fault.
Posted on: 2009/5/7 15:44
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Re: Teachers union boss criticizes Fulop in letter to members
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Home away from home
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New Jersey wouldn't know solid public education if it hit them in the face.
I am behind Fulop - the education system is set up to allow failure and lacks accountability. Municipality rule locks out balanced education for all - I believe the only way to get education back on track in Jersey is the charter school or run a county wide consolidated education system. I wonder if Favia would provide the raw data on teacher tenure in correlation with student test scores. I bet that union is doing great things for the children of this city.
Posted on: 2009/5/7 15:25
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Teachers union boss criticizes Fulop in letter to members
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Home away from home
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Teachers union boss criticizes Fulop in letter to members
Thursday, May 07, 2009 By AMY SARA CLARK JOURNAL STAFF WRITER More than 3,000 teachers and other school employees in the Jersey City public school system received a letter this week from their union president railing against Downtown Councilman Steve Fulop for saying that the city's public schools "continue to underachieve." The letter - which Jersey City Education Association president Thomas J. Favia wrote on union stationary and was placed in school mailboxes - also criticizes Fulop for suggesting that some schools be reopened as charters, magnets or pilots so teachers can be held "accountable for the academic progression of their students." Fulop made these statements in a recent e-mail to constituents. "In other words," Favia wrote, "with no regard for all the factors that must work together to achieve academic success, he wants individual teachers to pay the price for students who do not measure up." Favia did not directly tell union members not to vote for Fulop, who is up for re-election on Tuesday, but he hinted strongly. "I just thought you should know what Mr. Fulop is saying about you and your colleagues," Favia wrote. Calling Favia's move "aggressive," Fulop said he was going to complain to the state Department of Education that Favia put the letters in mailboxes located in "taxpayer-funded public schools." "He can advise them. But he does not have the ability to politicize and campaign via the school system," Fulop said. Favia did not return phone calls for comment, but Steve Baker, a spokesman for the New Jersey Education Association, defended Favia's action. "The First Amendment applies," Baker said. "It's completely permissible for him to communicate his opinion, particularly when he's communicating specifically to members of the Association." DOE officials couldn't be reached to comment. Fulop said Favia's complaints illustrate the problem with the city's school system. "The fact that he would push back against accountability and the suggestion that failing schools should be opened under new management speaks to everything that is wrong with the system," Fulop said.
Posted on: 2009/5/7 14:09
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