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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:

Garyg wrote:
I think the fountain pictued would be a great idea. I don't want to see a tacky type of water feature, anything like the one in the park on brunswick (I don't know the name). If the feature is moved to the front of the gazebo, it needs to be the same surface as the rest of the area, hopefully it will not have the children's play ground safety surface on it. I wouldn't want to see the area that was formally occupied by the water feature to be turned into anything other then open space.


The surface of dark squares you see in the fountain photo is actually granite slabs with the holes for the jets drilled into them. There's no rubber at all.

Posted on: 2006/8/31 20:43
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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I think the fountain pictued would be a great idea. I don't want to see a tacky type of water feature, anything like the one in the park on brunswick (I don't know the name). If the feature is moved to the front of the gazebo, it needs to be the same surface as the rest of the area, hopefully it will not have the children's play ground safety surface on it. I wouldn't want to see the area that was formally occupied by the water feature to be turned into anything other then open space.

Lastly at the next meeting can people remember to turn there stinking cell phones off, it is quite possibly the rudest thing in the world.

Posted on: 2006/8/31 20:18
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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25mcwilliams wrote:
I agree. The Pier A type of fountain is a good idea. I think it is called a recessed outdoor fountain. Allowing dual use of the space is desirable.

The children's garden was not included in the drawings and was mentioned by an attendee. It is covered at 25mc.com Blog.

Quote:

karindiann wrote:
I think brewster has an excellent idea -- the fountain pictured is very attractive -- making it part of the central plaza would open up the gazebo space, as well as allowing the fountain area to be useful in all seasons.

Does anyone have any information about the children's garden which was discussed earlier? It doesn't seem to be included in the plan. Was the idea dismissed, or is this garden included as part of the "ornamental garden" area?


There was a little discussion of perhaps one of the grassy sections left over in the tennis courts area being used for the childrens garden. They are kind of wasted. Another possibility would be the section vacated by the childrens fountain if the idea for moving it flies. Thanks for the supporting comments for the idea, we'll need to be vocal to get changes. I fear he was just yessing us about everything, and we'll see no changes. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Another idea brought up by an attendee was local art in the park. Now, I would be opposed to ANY permanent art installations, but what if the vacated fountain spot were to be a "art garden" of temporary installations curated by the JC museum? It's a risky idea, but could be interesting....

Posted on: 2006/8/31 19:09
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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> I also strongly agree with the sentiment above that one
> tennis court is enough for a park this size.. Given the
> improvements to the courts that are proposed, I can't
> see them being used for cricket, etc. in the future,
> therfore one is enough.

As these tennis courts are already effectively a multi-use
sports area, I think they should be offically cristened thus.

They should put a soccer goal in one, and a volleyball net
in another so that all sports can be accomodated.

Having the two courts availble for all these different sports
is great, I don't think one should be taken away, and the
survey also didn't support removing one.

Finally the rudeness of people talking through the entire
meeting was amazing, I couldn't hear lots of what was said
due to everyone talking to their neighbours!

Robin.

Posted on: 2006/8/31 19:06
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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I agree. The Pier A type of fountain is a good idea. I think it is called a recessed outdoor fountain. Allowing dual use of the space is desirable.

The children's garden was not included in the drawings and was mentioned by an attendee. It is covered at 25mc.com Blog.

Quote:

karindiann wrote:
I think brewster has an excellent idea -- the fountain pictured is very attractive -- making it part of the central plaza would open up the gazebo space, as well as allowing the fountain area to be useful in all seasons.

Does anyone have any information about the children's garden which was discussed earlier? It doesn't seem to be included in the plan. Was the idea dismissed, or is this garden included as part of the "ornamental garden" area?

Posted on: 2006/8/31 18:21
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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I think brewster has an excellent idea -- the fountain pictured is very attractive -- making it part of the central plaza would open up the gazebo space, as well as allowing the fountain area to be useful in all seasons.

Does anyone have any information about the children's garden which was discussed earlier? It doesn't seem to be included in the plan. Was the idea dismissed, or is this garden included as part of the "ornamental garden" area?

Posted on: 2006/8/31 18:07
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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thetruth wrote: Overall, I definitely liked the plan. I think it would be so much cooler to have the fountain in the center of the park but I just that is a non-starter.
I was the one proposing moving the childrens water play fountain, which from what he described is much like the Pier A fountain in Hoboken, to an enlarged central plaza in front of the gazebo. Anyone who's been to Pier A when it's running knows how attractive their fountain and it's setting is. When it's turned off, there is essentially nothing but pavement with small holes, the area is completely recovered for pedestrians. If we did this, not only would we get to keep the "amphitheater" like quality in front of the gazebo for events like concerts and plays, but the fountain becomes a secondary active and passive central focus, surrounded by park benches, rather than just for kids in a side quadrant that becomes barren 3/4 of the year. For events you simply turn off the fountain. Here's a sketch of the idea. We can push back or eliminate (as I have done) the inner western grass sections but use some sort of masonry pattern to keep the indication of the inner circle, if that is considered important. From the drawing, it appears that from the gazebo steps to the inner ring is only about 40 feet. Public gathering space such as we currently have isn't that common in this city, we should think carefully about it's design. It appears not to have been considered for VV park, yet has historically been a role for our parks. Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Posted on: 2006/8/31 16:02
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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I dont get it. People seem very keen to get rid of the tennis courts but not the basketball court. Is it sacrosanct? It gets a lot of use but that's part of the problem

Some rather disingenuous comments from at least one person (at the meeting), claiming they had never seen the tennis courts being used. And you deserve to be at this meeting?

Posted on: 2006/8/31 13:19
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Thanks for attending yesterday and the positive feedback overall was a nice change. As a note, we will still be having a second meeting on Tuesday the 5th at the same location to get any addiitonal comments from those that could not attend.

Subsequently, T&M will provide a newer drawing after that meeting based on the feedback that we will use as a base design moving into the next stages of the project.

Thanks again and I can't express how happy I was that it went over relatively well. Just to let you all know, there are quite a few people in both the HPNA and Friends of Hamilton Park whom have put a tremendous amount of work into helping guide the design and moving Hamilton Park forward up to this point including Jen Greely, Paul Grier, Sam Stoia, and Janet Allen to name a few.

Steven Fulop

Posted on: 2006/8/31 13:11
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Overall, I definitely liked the plan. I think it would be so much cooler to have the fountain in the center of the park but I just that is a non-starter.

On the dog run: I used to live near one in Battery Park, I think the ventilation might be a little better given the breezes up and down 9th as opposed to the wind patterns on West Ham but maybe not enough to make a difference. Either way it will be equidistant from the new water feature.

I also strongly agree with the sentiment above that one tennis court is enough for a park this size. That would be a "new" area of the park that gets sun. Also, removing the fences will add to the open feeling. Given the improvements to the courts that are proposed, I can't see them being used for cricket, etc. in the future, therfore one is enough.

Most happy that they went back to the spoke and wheel design.

Posted on: 2006/8/31 11:30
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Pleased... and disappointed.

I'm not sure who to thank.. but whomever you are... thank you for not moving the basketball or tennis courts to other areas of the park. Gratis. I'm in agreement with the posters above on reducing a court.... or two or three.

Of course the gardens are... too skimpy.

Now the 8th Street entrance (off Jersey) is the nicest of all. Those homes that face the park on 8th St. will have no trouble finding buyers for their properties. Congratulations!

Posted on: 2006/8/31 4:59
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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OK? my disclaimer is that I?m not affiliated with any of the 2 HP factions and that I?m admittedly, unapologetically, single-minded, and myopic about the dog-run issue (PRO!!).

Got a chance to put a face to some of the JCList regulars, BM and Minnie. I know you 2 don?t see eye-to-eye, but the dialogue is useful. Well done?

Keep in mind, this is just my ?interpretation? and that I was going through a calorie crash as the meeting went on.

IMHO, the plan isn?t bad, but the presenting company came prepared with the selling point that this is just a ?concept? and meant to be changed. I liked the formal garden, fountain, restoration of the ?spoke? walkways, etc.

They made a big effort in the beginning explaining that the old trees would not be cut down, but some of the newer, smaller, ornamentals (plums, cherries, etc.) that didn?t really fit, might be chopped. Minnie pressed them on that.

The only question I could think of is the few older trees that are on the raised beds surrounding the gazebo. The landscape architect made a point that the raised beds would be leveled, but I don?t know (so don?t jump to conclusions) whether that means that one or two old trees may be sacrificed that currently exist on raised beds or whether they can be saved.

I had my hand up for the last 10 minutes of the meeting, but wasn?t called on and finally left when I was crashing and had to eat dinner.

What I was going to add was:

- one woman made a great point about drainage. Given the history of the downtown sewage system and the development in the St. Francis area, let me echo the best suggestion Skadave ever made ? if any drainage (dog run or otherwise) feeds into the city sewer system, put an industrial-strength check-valve on it. With the added volume of residential units in the St. Francis area, the sewer situation is only going to get worse.
- The dog run (in the NNW quadrant) was too close to the proposed kiddie spray pool for me. I don?t think that the parents in the area want to be anywhere close to a dog run. I agree with others that spoke- putting it in the SW quadrant makes more sense.
- The landscape architect was vague about the dog-run surface? almost suggesting wood chips. BIG MISTAKE ? the wood will retain odor making your worse preconceptions about dog runs being ?stinky? ring true!! Some blend of decomposed granite and zeolite (natural detoxifier, sort of like a charcoal filter) seems to be the way to go.
- I wasn?t sure if the drawing provided to us was in scale. I mention this because I thought the survey concluded that the majority surveyed cited that the dog-run should be the size of 2 tennis courts. From the drawing, it looked slightly bigger than one court.
- Why is the shape of the dog-run rectangular, looking like a basketball court inserted into a triangle that?s 1/8 (the proposed dog-run is much smaller than 1/8th) of the park? Whatever square footage the community agrees on, wouldn?t it make sense to align to the triangular dimensions?
- Other dog-run specifics are still up in the air: separate area for small-dogs/puppies, size of, fence, etc. Since the plan is labeled ?concept?, I don?t know if they?re ready for that level of detail.

My editorial (please? this is only my opinion only after a LONG night):

- there?s a real disconnect over having two tennis courts. Some people insist that both courts are used full-time, whether for tennis, cricket, volleyball, etc. From my observation (since 2001), that?s not the case. On average, over the course of the year, IMO, it?s a low-volume use area. Given what I just said, don?t look tomorrow and expect it to be empty. Much like a gym, where volume spikes after New Year?s Resolution, the tennis courts will be more active while (and just after) the U.S Open or Wimbledon. IMO, one court is more than enough.
- (remember? my editorial, but flame away) As a dog owner who wants to be fair to other members of the community, it?s fine to have ?pet-free? areas. However, I don?t think it right to necessarily propose pet-free areas any bigger than a dog-run. It?s my understanding that statutes on the ?books? say that in any public park, pet-free areas can?t comprise more than 50% of the park. I think that law makes a lot of sense. Unless you intention was to allow dogs in the kid?s playground, garden, tennis courts, basketball courts, etc. you have to factor these areas in when you draw those line. I don?t think those who spoke at the meeting who were suggesting ? or more of the area be declared ?pet-free? were counting these other areas.
- The other issue on pet-free areas, I?ve stated before. Don?t declare a ?pet-free? area until you open the dog run. It?s not fair, it?s not enforceable.
- Dog-owners have to become more mobilized, organized. I know we have the numbers. If you were to put an imaginary ?turnstile? to count the number of downtown residents using a dog-run, I bet dog run usage would beat any tennis court (probably both courts), basketball court, probably all of them combined. However, we underrepresented at meeting like this. The non-dog-owning people out there think dog-runs are for dogs. WRONG! Dog runs are for dog owners.

Already I can see that I?m being too long-winded? more (I?m sure whether I like it or not) tomorrow.

Posted on: 2006/8/31 3:55
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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No cops,

A very good outline and blue print to build on. Most elements that people wanted were incorporated without overwhelming the park. It is functional.

There were constructive public comments that can be implemented as the plan is finalized.

It is a compromise, but a good compromise.

My thoughts, I would not mind loosing one of the tennis courts. A member of the public had a good point on how to keep some of the space in front of the gazebo while implementing the historical symentry through deliniation of the pavement. A dog owner (who brought his dog to the meeting) spoke to the need to provide some barrier to the lawns to keep people and people with dogs from using them as walkways. While, some trees may need to be moved or go, there were comments to be sensitive where trees may have been planted in memory of someone.

It is not a revolutionary or innovative change, but a clear improvement.

Now, to get it done!

Posted on: 2006/8/31 3:49
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:

LoraJ wrote:
How did the meeting go?

WHat do the plans look like?

How many police cars did they have to send?

Posted on: 2006/8/31 3:09
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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How did the meeting go?

WHat do the plans look like?

Posted on: 2006/8/31 1:45
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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I am not a dendrologist, but I hit my fair share of keg parties at Cook College. Willows generally are weak rooted and very thirsty - which is why you see them by streams. "Old growth" is a relative term here - a 10' sapling can double in height in 10 years and reach maturity in 20-25 years. Even in crappy soil, too wet in winter and too dry in summer, competing with lawn grasses and fertilized with recycled Iams (sound familiar)?

While the city has allocated funds and there has been a Master Plan created - don't forget that the developers are the largest single, ahem, "stakeholders" in this process. Were individual voters that shaped the master plan identified and tallied? If so why was this number not released? Does anyone really believe that 1,108 individuals voted - or is it closer to 150 people voting in each of the five ballots, with maybe 1/3 'fresh' voters each time? In a city of 240k, 80+k homes, 55+k families, that's hardly citywide input. Some other entity is driving this process . . . and you can bet their $1.0MM 'contribution' they don't want to show off fresh condos for sale with a view of an "urban" basketball court (yes, that's right, I used 'that' term) and the St. Lucy's lunch crowd.

And if you really think your vote is going to outweigh the developers' and other's special interests, then you probably thought the votes for Gore in FL or Kerry in OH really mattered, too!!

Please let's at least be polite tonight while our future park is delivered (Vacant?) to us po' folk.

Posted on: 2006/8/30 19:40
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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brewster wrote:
Quote:


I agree, tern/Robin, and would have been nice if Minnie had spelled it out that she had an insider's view on these plans (does she know "JARRETT RENSHAW" who wrote the JJ article?)and KNEW that's what plans said instead of making it seem like her own personal agenda.
[/url]


I wouldn't rule out the reporter getting his info from Minnie and not factchecking it.


HAHAHA! You're right: even the wording of "removing trees and adding structures" has the same resonant ring as you know who!

Posted on: 2006/8/30 19:16
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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I agree, tern/Robin, and would have been nice if Minnie had spelled it out that she had an insider's view on these plans (does she know "JARRETT RENSHAW" who wrote the JJ article?)and KNEW that's what plans said instead of making it seem like her own personal agenda.
[/url]


I wouldn't rule out the reporter getting his info from Minnie and not factchecking it.

Posted on: 2006/8/30 18:48
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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tern wrote:
25mcwilliams wrote:
> The plans include cutting down some trees in the park,
> as well as moving around some structures.

So Minnie was right! They are going to cut down trees.
That is absolute madness, those trees are magnificient.
We will be doing ourselves and future generations a massive disservice if we cut-down a single one of the mature trees in that park.

A new playground or dog run will need replacing in twenty years or so, if we cut down a mature tree it can never be undone. (well not for 100 years or so).

I am stunned they are even proposing it.

Robin.


I agree, tern/Robin, and would have been nice if Minnie had spelled it out that she had an insider's view on these plans (does she know "JARRETT RENSHAW" who wrote the JJ article?)and KNEW that's what plans said instead of making it seem like her own personal agenda.

I'm against ANY old growth trees being cut! See here what happened behind where I live:

80', 80+ yr. old Willow murdered next to Grace Church!


How do you cut down an 80' tall Willow?

Posted on: 2006/8/30 17:40
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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25mcwilliams wrote:
> The plans include cutting down some trees in the park,
> as well as moving around some structures.

So Minnie was right! They are going to cut down trees.
That is absolute madness, those trees are magnificient.
We will be doing ourselves and future generations a massive disservice if we cut-down a single one of the mature trees in that park.

A new playground or dog run will need replacing in twenty years or so, if we cut down a mature tree it can never be undone. (well not for 100 years or so).

I am stunned they are even proposing it.

Robin.

Posted on: 2006/8/30 16:03
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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The Jersey Journal
Hamilton Park plans will be displayed tonight
Wednesday, August 30, 2006

Residents will get a preview tonight of plans for the renovation of Jersey City's historic Hamilton Park and will be invited to provide input on what it will look like in the future.

The meeting will take place at 7 p.m. in the former St. Francis Hospital, located directly on the park between Eighth and Ninth streets.

The initial drawing by Middletown-based T&M Associates - which is doing a master parks plan for the entire city - is based on community surveys that were conceived by the Hamilton Park Neighborhood Association.

The plans include cutting down some trees in the park, as well as moving around some structures.

Downtown Councilman Steve Fulop, who helped organize the meeting, says it's intended to get initial feedback on the drawings. The feedback will then be considered for future revisions.

"Hamilton should be a showcase park for the entire city to use, and it hasn't had any sort of renovation for quite some time," said Fulop. "What's great about this is that it's being driven by the community, the stakeholders."

JARRETT RENSHAW


? 2006 The Jersey Journal
? 2006 NJ.com All Rights Reserved.

Posted on: 2006/8/30 13:30
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:

Sleepygirl wrote:

I think it is fair to say that Minnie is out of step with the general of the neighborhood is out of step, and with the plans for the park. Plans no one else has seen, yet she has been charging about the neighborhood claiming that trees are going to pulled down even though she, like the rest of the neighborhood has yet to see one new drawing.




Errr... more like somebody spilled the beans!

Well they've had some time to change the plans... lets hope the 'new' plan looks marvelous.

Wed. August 30
7:00 PM
in the St. Francis Hospital, on Hamilton Park (in the yellow brick builidng) on McWilliams Place between 8th and 9th Street.

If you're not sure where to go... just meet us at the Farmers Market and we'll walk in together. If you don't have time to eat.. you can grab an iced tea and a piece of fruit at the market, or a home baked cookie.

Posted on: 2006/8/30 0:23
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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As evidenced by the HPNA survey, there is an incredible need/want for both active recreational facilities and open passive space. I hope that the consultants can put their knowledge and experience to use in proposing a good renovation plan. However, after attending some of the public meetings that they held on the Parks and Open Space Master Plan, I share Bright Moments concerns about it.

For more information on the Parks and Open Space Master Plan including a schedule of upcoming meetings, see -

Parks and Open Space Master Plan meetings

Civic JC submitted recommendations to the Master Plan after attending all of public meetings which can be viewed here -

Civic JC Recreation and Open Space Report

Posted on: 2006/8/29 19:22
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Nice hit and run first post.

Quote:

Sleepygirl wrote:
I think it is fair to say that Minnie is out of step with the general of the neighborhood is out of step, and with the plans for the park. Plans no one else has seen, yet she has been charging about the neighborhood claiming that trees are going to pulled down even though she, like the rest of the neighborhood has yet to see one new drawing. Furthermore her attitude towards children and families in the neighborhood is unbelievably hostile and believe me when I say she has managed to raise the ire of every parent I know in Hamilton Park. The park is in fact for everyone old and young a like, there is room for everyone to have space to enjoy our wonderful park.

Posted on: 2006/8/29 14:43
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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I think it is fair to say that Minnie is out of step with the general of the neighborhood is out of step, and with the plans for the park. Plans no one else has seen, yet she has been charging about the neighborhood claiming that trees are going to pulled down even though she, like the rest of the neighborhood has yet to see one new drawing. Furthermore her attitude towards children and families in the neighborhood is unbelievably hostile and believe me when I say she has managed to raise the ire of every parent I know in Hamilton Park. The park is in fact for everyone old and young a like, there is room for everyone to have space to enjoy our wonderful park.

Posted on: 2006/8/29 13:22
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:

brewster wrote:

Steve Fulop said why they're not releasing plans before the meeting earlier in the thread, but it sure would deflate some of the disinformation and hyperbole being spread.


Good point, brewster, but T&M even control the hearing process, as I signed the sheet to speak at the City Council mtg, and the T&M guy (forget his name) didn't use the sheet just pointed to whomever he wanted.

I got so tired raising my hands, all the time holding my crutches, that I just gave up. Watch out, as that most likely will be how they handle speakers at this mtg. too.

Here is what was said by Steven Fulop:


Quote:
StevenFulop Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates #11

Brewster,

I will do my best to get some info before the meeting but I don't want to promise that I will post the drawing. I am not sure best course of action, as you can see even on this thread that this is deemed " a battle for Hamilton Park". I am trying not to inflame a contentious neighborhood situation far before the meeting.


The initial drawings are based on the community survey including, type of lighting, gazebo, dogrun, improved childrens' area, gardens... Importantly though, as Mcwilliams pointed out, nothing it set in stone and the purpose of the meetings are for the community to guide the process and changes that they think are important

Steven Fulop

Posted on: 8/21 8:51:52

Posted on: 2006/8/28 0:39
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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The address is 1 McWilliams Place (map).

Quote:

4bailey wrote:
Getting back to the meeting?

For the uninitiated newbies, when the location and time is posted as ?St. Francis @ 7 PM?, is there an exact address (intersection, room #, etc.)??

I?ve never been to one of these things?

Posted on: 2006/8/28 0:15
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:

4bailey wrote:
Getting back to the meeting?

For the uninitiated newbies, when the location and time is posted as ?St. Francis @ 7 PM?, is there an exact address (intersection, room #, etc.)??

I?ve never been to one of these things?


There's a doorway on McWilliams Pl just north of the Nursing school building, the southernmost building on the block between 8th & 9th just west of Erie. We had an HPNA meeting in the lobby there, I hope they have a bigger space available if this gets a lot of people.

Steve Fulop said why they're not releasing plans before the meeting earlier in the thread, but it sure would deflate some of the disinformation and hyperbole being spread.

Posted on: 2006/8/27 23:31
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Getting back to the meeting?

For the uninitiated newbies, when the location and time is posted as ?St. Francis @ 7 PM?, is there an exact address (intersection, room #, etc.)??

I?ve never been to one of these things?

Posted on: 2006/8/27 21:10
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:

25mcwilliams wrote:
There is not a cabal that want to cut down the trees in Hamilton Park, eliminate gardens and turn the park into a giant sports recreation facility. Why not see the plans BEFORE making assumptions?

Quote:

Minnie wrote:
If the turnout is poor... the plan will pass with flying colors.


I agree with 25mcwilliams, since I don't know anyone, including Steve Fulop, who has seen T&M plans, why don't we wait till they present something until we decide if we like them or not.

At the city council hearing that Sam Pesin was filming, I remember that when T&M was asked if we could contact them or see their plans before finished they basically said to contact Bill Cotter not them, and no we couldn't see any plans till finished.

So unless you have seen the plans Minnie how do you know what they look like??

Posted on: 2006/8/27 18:17
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