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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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If you want to understand how ambulances are positioned in Jersey City and why, consider coming on a tour:

The Hospital offers a "behind the scenes" tour of Jersey City Medical Center - the ?Enhancing Life Tour?. I think you will find it to be an informative, interesting, and inspiring look at the medical center which will give you a much better understanding of JCMC?s vital role in the health and well-being of our community.

The Enhancing Life Tour takes just one hour and will be offered on the dates and times listed below.

If you would like to be a part of a tour, please contact the LibertyHealth Foundation (201-377-6057) and let us know the date you would like to take the Enhancing Life Tour at Jersey City Medical Center. We will meet in the Lobby.

November 18th @ 8:45 am
December 7th @ 5:45 pm
December 9th @ 8:45 am

Posted on: 2010/11/10 16:59
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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Must be a downtown issue... I have yet to see a idling Ambulance up in the Heights... The closet I seen was JCMC parked in the Summit Ave BK lot..

Posted on: 2010/11/10 15:55
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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Every ambulance I've had the displeasure being near has had the WORST diesel exhaust I've ever breathed.
The are mostly run by independent companies where profit is the bottom line so they will not willingly go out and buy newer, more efficient vehicles.
They need to be inspected and made to conform to the same emission regulations as other vehicles. I have a 2009 VW diesel myself and one can barely detect its exhaust. It actually qualifies as a clean-emissions vehicle in all 50 states, even California. So clean diesel technology is here.
Even in the middle of winter I've never had to wait more than a few seconds for the glow plugs to heat the engine up enough to start it cleanly. So starting/warm-up time is no longer an issue with modern diesels either.
Modern hospitals have bays where they park the ambulances and hook them up to power lines (shore power) to keep them ready and charged. Why isn't this ambulance hooked up to a shore line somewhere near the hospitals it is serving?

Posted on: 2010/11/9 22:45
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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I work on an sct (critical care) ambulance. We have to cover hospitals all over NJ and Philly. Because response time to the hospitals has to be within 10 minutes, we don't have the luxury to be posted at base where we can plug our vehicles in. We have to sit in the vehicle for a 12 hour shift between calls. We could go in stores during business hours however we run the risk of missing calls on portable phones and radios that lose service in hospitals and many other public places. The safest place to ensure all calls are received is in the ambulance. Main county radios only work if the vehicle is running.

Ambulances are not being parked idling for quicker response times. It is because our propacks (heart monitors) and defribillators need to be charged to work. We also carry life saving medication that has to be climate controlled or it will spoil. So next time you chalk up an idling ambulance to emt comfort or pleasure, remember that in order to save lives, our equipment needs to be ready to save a life, 24 hours a day.

Posted on: 2010/11/9 19:16
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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Quote:

jcnight wrote:
1 car/truck vs a fleet.

When they are on the road it is their law they must leave their cars running period.
They have tons of electrical gear set up on the cars
( computers, radio, siren, flashlight charges, modems, etc. that if they did not leave them running then batteries would run out)


In general, the emergency services do not have any laws. They are part of the executive branch of the government and can not create, enable, modify, or rescind laws. Those are the functions of the legislative branch.

In general, the emergency services do have regulations and standard operating procedures which provide guidance and direction. There can be changed internally.

I do not know whether or not the FDJC, JCPD, or JC EMS have any written guidelines specifying leaving vehicles running while not actively performing an emergency function. I do not know whether JC has any laws or regulations regarding emergency services vehicles idling while not actively performing an emergency function.

However, NJ State has the following regarding idling vehicles (NJ DEP Stop the Soot, including emergency services vehicles; diesel vehicles, NJAC 7:27-14, gasoline vehicles NJAC 7:27-15):

Diesel vehicles
7:27-14.2 Applicability
(a) Except as provided in (b) and (c) below, this subchapter applies to all diesel-powered motor vehicles.
(b) This subchapter shall not apply to a diesel-powered motor vehicle that is owned and operated by a county, municipality, fire district, or duly incorporated nonprofit
organization for first aid, emergency, ambulance, rescue, or fire-fighting purposes; and that is generally held in ready status, and only brought into service during an emergency
requiring immediate action. Such vehicles do not include multi-purpose utility vehicles, such as dump trucks, highway construction vehicles, or other vehicles used to perform
temporary emergency service.

7:27-14.3 General prohibitions
(a) No person shall cause, suffer, allow, or permit the engine of a diesel-powered motor vehicle to idle for more than three consecutive minutes if the vehicle is not in motion, except:
1. A motor vehicle that has been stopped for three or more hours may idle for up to 15 consecutive minutes when the ambient temperature is below 25 degrees Fahrenheit; and
2. A diesel bus while it is actively discharging or picking up passengers may idle for 15 consecutive minutes in a 60-minute period.
(b) The provisions of (a) above shall not apply to:
4. Vehicles that are actively performing emergency services. Examples include fire vehicles, police vehicles, public utility vehicles, military tactical vehicles and snow removal vehicles, during the time that such vehicles are actively performing emergency services

Gasoline vehicles
7:27-15.8 Idle standard
(a) No person shall cause, suffer, allow, or permit the engine of a gasoline-fueled motor vehicle to idle for more than three consecutive minutes if the vehicle is not in motion.
(b) The provisions of (a) above shall not apply to:
l. Autobuses while discharging or picking up passengers;
2. Motor vehicles stopped in a line of traffic;
3. Motor vehicles whose primary and/or secondary power source is utilized in whole or in part for necessary and definitively prescribed mechanical operation other than propulsion, passenger compartment heating or air
conditioning;
4. Motor vehicles being or waiting to be examined by State or Federal motor vehicle inspectors;
5. Emergency motor vehicles in an emergency situation;
6. Motor vehicles while being repaired;
7. Motor vehicles while engaged in the process of connection, detachment or exchange of trailers; or
8. Motor vehicles manufactured with a sleeper berth while being used, in a non-residentially zoned area, by the vehicle's operator for sleeping or resting.

It is interesting to note that, if I am interpreting this correctly, that diesel powered emergency vehicles can idle in a "ready status", whereas gasoline powered emergency vehicles do not have such an exemption.

That being said the NJ DEP also states
TECHNICAL NOTES:

* Diesel vehicles do not need to keep engines running to properly function. Modern diesel engines require only 3 minutes or less to ?warm up?. Idling is a waste of fuel and money and causes excess wear and maintenance.

* Fine particle pollution in NJ may cause more premature deaths than homicides and car accidents combined. Diesel exhaust is a primary component of fine particle pollution and is known to cause or exacerbate a variety of heart and lung ailments.

* Neighboring states have idling laws that are similar to NJ. The idling limit in New York state is 5 minutes, New York City is 3 minutes with no exceptions, and Philadelphia is 2 minutes.

The argument that equipment needs to be constantly charged is also invalid. Most people fail to realize that maintaining a constant charge on a rechargeable battery actually reduces the longevity of the battery (specifically referring to the memory effect). That being said, computers, modems, flashlights, etc. do not need to be charged 24/7. Doing so is only a waster of money since batteries and battery chargers need to replaced constantly.

The siren and lights do not need to be charged and should only be wired to the vehicle battery to be turned on while the vehicle is running to prevent battery drain - it is NOT a hot connection.

Keeping the radio on while being in a ready status is the only valid argument I can see for keeping an emergency vehicle idling, but at the same time that is why personnel also have portable radios.

Lastly, I try to keep my fire truck off when I am not actively performing an emergency function and furthermore, even while performing an emergency function, if I feel I can perform my job safely and effectively, I turn the truck off.

Posted on: 2010/9/25 12:28
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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Quote:

MikeyTBC wrote:
Quote:

jcnight wrote:
Quote:

equ wrote:
It takes 1 second to turn on a car/ambulance/whatever. That one second can be combined with the few seconds that the same ambulance driver takes to put his/her belt on (they certainly don't idle around belted in).

It is pure bad habits and disregard for energy waste/air quality, nothing else... Let's stop making excuses.


It?s not a matter of convenience. They have to leave their cars running just like cops have to leave there cars running. They do so just in case someone?s sorry ass calls someday with an emergency and they go to start their car and BAM no start! It would not be good. So think again before criticizing!


I call BS on this one. By that logic, every fire truck/engine in every firehouse should be running 24/7.


1 car/truck vs a fleet.

When they are on the road it is their law they must leave their cars running period.
They have tons of electrical gear set up on the cars
( computers, radio, siren, flashlight charges, modems, etc. that if they did not leave them running then batteries would run out)

Posted on: 2010/9/24 18:39
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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Quote:

jcnight wrote:
Quote:

equ wrote:
It takes 1 second to turn on a car/ambulance/whatever. That one second can be combined with the few seconds that the same ambulance driver takes to put his/her belt on (they certainly don't idle around belted in).

It is pure bad habits and disregard for energy waste/air quality, nothing else... Let's stop making excuses.


It?s not a matter of convenience. They have to leave their cars running just like cops have to leave there cars running. They do so just in case someone?s sorry ass calls someday with an emergency and they go to start their car and BAM no start! It would not be good. So think again before criticizing!


I call BS on this one. By that logic, every fire truck/engine in every firehouse should be running 24/7.

Posted on: 2010/9/24 18:35
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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Quote:

equ wrote:
It takes 1 second to turn on a car/ambulance/whatever. That one second can be combined with the few seconds that the same ambulance driver takes to put his/her belt on (they certainly don't idle around belted in).

It is pure bad habits and disregard for energy waste/air quality, nothing else... Let's stop making excuses.


It?s not a matter of convenience. They have to leave their cars running just like cops have to leave there cars running. They do so just in case someone?s sorry ass calls someday with an emergency and they go to start their car and BAM no start! It would not be good. So think again before criticizing!

Posted on: 2010/9/24 17:38
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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One of the EMT's lives in the set back house where it pulls up and he does indeed hang out there, since no one is ever in the ambulance half the time. I used to live around there and see it alot.

Posted on: 2010/9/24 17:21
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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It takes 1 second to turn on a car/ambulance/whatever. That one second can be combined with the few seconds that the same ambulance driver takes to put his/her belt on (they certainly don't idle around belted in).

It is pure bad habits and disregard for energy waste/air quality, nothing else... Let's stop making excuses.

Posted on: 2010/9/24 15:38
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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I think Heights made the more legitimate point. Why is this ambulance parked along a residential street for hours on end? I'd like to know if it's common practice/protocol or if somebody is parking their ambulance in front of their house and hanging out in their living room while they are on the clock.

Can anyone with actual knowledge of this (and not just an opinion) offer some clarification? I know ambulances don't just patrol the streets like cops, but I'd imagine there is some standard for where they can and should be while on call.

Posted on: 2010/9/24 15:36
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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gumbo wrote:
geez. the point is that this is a residential street, or at least there are residences on it.

since when is it ok to have an ambulance regularly idle outside of your house, to say nothing of doing it at 2am, when there seems to be no emergency nearby? speaking of the pathmark, why not just idle in the colony square parking lot?

posting on JC is to solicit information--ie, maybe there is a good reason--and not just to bitch.


And the fact that it's a residential area is a good point while the person I quote who's only argument is that "it's annoying" isn't a good point. For instance there was another post on this forum obviously by a woman on where to run without getting whistled at. As a woman who goes to school and works in the city I also deal with getting honked at, whistled at, have had men who whisper disgusting remarks as they pass by me, but will that make me completely change my commute uptown? Am I going to avoid going down Broadway and opt to hiking up Morning Side Park with a purse that weighs about 3lbs because of books? Hell, no! Annoyances are just that annoyances we all deal with them, but they're not valid arguments.

Posted on: 2010/9/24 15:18
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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geez. the point is that this is a residential street, or at least there are residences on it.

since when is it ok to have an ambulance regularly idle outside of your house, to say nothing of doing it at 2am, when there seems to be no emergency nearby? speaking of the pathmark, why not just idle in the colony square parking lot?

posting on JC is to solicit information--ie, maybe there is a good reason--and not just to bitch.

Posted on: 2010/9/24 15:01
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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emileigh23 wrote:
Oh c'mon! It was (and is) a nuisance! The fact that its an ambulance has nothing to do with it. I'd be equally annoyed if it were a bread truck or other rumbly vehicle. Maybe if they were actually saving a life while I was inconvenienced it'd be a different story. But they're a repeat offender most nights of the week and its annoying.


Well maybe we should start building ambulances like school buses. Instead of a stop sign they should have a sign that says emergency pop out just because your annoyed. This seems to be the general feeling on this forum let's bitch about something because we can. As far as I know ambulances are told to keep the engine on a majority of the time in case of an emergency and let's face it that part of Bright Street is by the Pathmark. Have you seen the hookers, drug addicts, and pimps on the other side of that parking lot? You should be so lucky to have that ambulance there.

Posted on: 2010/9/24 14:41
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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Murphyitsyou wrote:
To the last person that commented way to be nice to the people that dedicate themselves to trying to save lives.


Oh c'mon! It was (and is) a nuisance! The fact that its an ambulance has nothing to do with it. I'd be equally annoyed if it were a bread truck or other rumbly vehicle. Maybe if they were actually saving a life while I was inconvenienced it'd be a different story. But they're a repeat offender most nights of the week and its annoying.

Posted on: 2010/9/23 22:54
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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Perhaps it's for job security?

If they leave enough engines running long enough the spewed emissions wll guarantee a steady future stream of emergency hospital admissions due to COPD, emphysema, lng cancer, etc.

On the other hand it might just be stupidity. The person entrusted with using the electronic defibrillator to shock your heart into proper rhythm may not be bright enough to turn off the ignition.

But in all seriousness, the reason people keep 300 horsepower engines running wastefully is so that 1 horsepower can be diverted to the air conditioner so they can remain cool while they sit doing nothing and collecting a paycheck.

Posted on: 2010/9/23 13:45
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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This is terrible, but unfortunately deeply engrained in "cheap fuel" American culture. People even idle their private vehicles, but officials driving state cars (police, fire, etc) are the worst offenders. How long does it take to start up a car these days? A fraction of a second. Is that ambulance there really in a state of emergency all those hours? The state law is 3 minutes but provides handy exceptions to official folk:

http://www.stopthesoot.org/idling_whats_the_problem.pdf

Posted on: 2010/9/23 13:39
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Does anyone know what the protocol is for ambulances? Are they supposed to be located in specific locations or do they just need to be on call?

Posted on: 2010/9/23 2:27
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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haha, that's pretty funny. had not thought of the advantages...

Posted on: 2010/9/23 2:22
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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I wish I lived in that neighborhood that way if anything were to happen the paramedics could be their as fast as possible. To the last person that commented way to be nice to the people that dedicate themselves to trying to save lives.

Posted on: 2010/9/23 1:28
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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This ambulance drives me nuts!!! Once I was parked in by it (I was parked in front of the school, where the offender often idles) and as I didn't know who's it was or where they lived, I just kept honking my horn. They eventually came out and drove off. They came out from the house set back, right behind the apartment building on the corner that faces Varick st.

Posted on: 2010/9/22 14:45
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Re: Idling Ambulance?
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They have to be ready for an emergency. But for hours that seems to be a slouch cheating on his paycheck. The best way is to make a phone call, take pictures and post in on the airwaves.

Posted on: 2010/9/22 2:24
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Idling Ambulance?
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Oh wise JClist:

anyone know why an ambulance would regularly idle on Bright St. across from the Frank Conwell School in the 10pm-3am range, sometimes for hours at a time, with the engine thrumming loudly?

it happens all the time and does not seem related to any emergency, but maybe there is someone in the area constantly calling 911.

Posted on: 2010/9/22 2:21
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