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Re: Liberty Harbor
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so what's you're feeling of your investment? does it look like the entire Liberty Harbor will be able to be completed. Market is bad and Mocco has some hefty fines from the city of JC to pay.

Posted on: 2008/10/24 20:52
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I closed recently at Liberty Harbor and here's what I can tell you. The sales people are just that, sales people. As long as the fancy sales center, and somewhat aloof demeanor doesn't fool you into that they are somewhat above the regular real estate sales tactics(last one left!), I think you should be fine.

IMHO, if you are making such a big investment, whether you like the sales people or not should not stand in the way of getting a good value for your money. Once you sign the contract you don't have to deal with the sales people at all( in fact based on my personal experience, they don't seem to want to deal with you at all after that).

I looked at Dixon Mills, Athena and a few other places in JC. IMHO, LH definitely comes out on top as far as value, and finishes are concerned. The staff at Sutton where my unit are very professional, helpful and friendly, certainly a breath of fresh air after, what you have to go through to get the mortgage these days.

Posted on: 2008/10/24 14:34
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Re: Liberty Harbor
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Damn! Do you teach acting classes?? -- you should be!

Quote:

fasteddie wrote:
You don't have to like them. Go there and treat them like a bum at a drive up donut window. Wear your best most expensive clothing and jewelry. If you don't have any, borrow some. Arrange to have someone call your cell in the middle of their sales speil and take the call, mention large sums of money and drop some celebrity names. Keep an impatient annoyed expression on your face. The kind of face you make when you smell something bad. They want YOUR money and they will kiss your ass to get it.

Posted on: 2008/10/24 11:29
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Re: Liberty Harbor
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smelly wrote:
Can anyone tell me anything about this development lately. I went to kannekt and it seems that not many people like their sales team so I am reluctant to go over there. I think the units look nice from the outside. Anyone know anything about the construction?

You don't have to like them. Go there and treat them like a bum at a drive up donut window. Wear your best most expensive clothing and jewelry. If you don't have any, borrow some. Arrange to have someone call your cell in the middle of their sales speil and take the call, mention large sums of money and drop some celebrity names. Keep an impatient annoyed expression on your face. The kind of face you make when you smell something bad. They want YOUR money and they will kiss your ass to get it.

Posted on: 2008/10/24 0:37
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Can anyone tell me anything about this development lately. I went to kannekt and it seems that not many people like their sales team so I am reluctant to go over there. I think the units look nice from the outside. Anyone know anything about the construction?

Posted on: 2008/10/24 0:07
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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elvis wrote:
So LittleTime:

It might help your case if you pretended to be interested in other things going on in JC and not just Liberty Harbor. Try posting a fake comment in the dog run thread or something. All 5 of your posts have been in Liberty Harbor threads.



I actually do post on other sites and in other forums. I just post where I want and didn't think it was a big deal. But thanks for the advice...

Posted on: 2008/7/28 12:56
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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I know some LCCS parents who have said that although they want more space, they don't want to have larger classes or more classes, because they think it's important to keep the school small. If that's the attitude, then they don't make a very compelling case for more space.


Oh. That definitely undercuts LCCS's case.

On the other hand: One way to get similar results would be to offer the space to The Ethical Community Charter School people, and make the space offer contingent on them providing enough seats to accommodate, say, 60 kids per grade. If all downtown developers combined would simply create 200 good seats per grade, that would help a lot.

Posted on: 2008/7/22 18:15
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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So LittleTime:

It might help your case if you pretended to be interested in other things going on in JC and not just Liberty Harbor. Try posting a fake comment in the dog run thread or something. All 5 of your posts have been in Liberty Harbor threads.

Posted on: 2008/7/22 16:48
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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I think the issue with Learning Community is that, because selection is completely random, there's no way to ensure that the space given to it actually benefits LHN residents.

I know some LCC parents who have said that although they want more space, they don't want to have larger classes or more classes, because they think it's important to keep the school small. If that's the attitude, then they don't make a very compelling case for more space.

I'd like to see LCC get some more space. But if the are going to get it, then they should be prepared to expand their school to more students.

Posted on: 2008/7/22 14:40
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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Wow, who are you so mad at? I'm confused- do you think I work for Liberty Harbor or something? LOL

That's so sad about the Learning Community Charter School- that would be a great opportunity for the community. I wonder if there is any way for them to reconsider. Is Peter Mocco the be all and end all of decisions? Pardon my lack of knowledge, I am just don't know who the important shareholders or know who the owners of these residences are. Is there a way to get them to reconsider?

Posted on: 2008/7/22 13:13
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solittletime9 wrote:
I don't know where you're getting your information from, but you should really get your facts straight. And anyway, why would your original positive feelings be chipped away because of something someone else said?


Since LHN representatives are obviously spamming this and other message boards, the normative concern that arises is, what is wrong with Liberty Harbor that the sales people need to resort to tactics better suited to selling pornography and Nigerian money scams? If Liberty Harbor was such a great place to buy, wouldn't that be enough to sell units without spamming message boards?

Also, you cheap piece of shit, Newport, 77 Hudson, the Beacon, Canco, and TreeTop have all at various points actually PAID for advertising space on local community websites via Google Ads. So instead of Spamming everyone, why don't you grow up, act like an adult and buy some ads.

Posted on: 2008/7/21 14:34
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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somuchspam, solittletime9.
The Liberty Harbor North development is a welcome improvement...


I've generally been pro-LHN, but someone told me yesterday that Peter Mocco flat out refused to let Learning Community Charter School have any space there.

Given that LCCS has about 10 applicants for each slot, and that most LHN families will want to try to send their kids there, it was absurd of LHN not to find a way to accommodate LCCS.

Or, if Mocco is someone who has concerns about the charter school concept, then he should have offered space to P.S. 16 or P.S. 5. Both of those are fine schools with fine kids, and it seems as if both schools make sure that kids behave themselves while coming to and leaving the schools. So, there was absolutely no reason for LHN to shaft schools.

Maybe the argument would be that LHN residents won't have kids. But I've already met a new LHN resident in Van Vorst Park who was wondering what she and her husband would do about school when they have a child.

Posted on: 2008/7/21 14:24
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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propscene wrote:
somuchspam, solittletime9.

I also vividly remember what this end of Jersey Avenue looked like in 2002, it was unbelievably run down and sketchy. The Liberty Harbor North development is a welcome improvement, and I'm glad the construction took into consideration new urban development practices and is striving to create an integrated mini community, even if it's prefab.

It's a shame the shills are quickly chipping away at all of my original positive feelings. I'm now much less inclined to talk positively about this project to people who are interested in moving to JC, because this kind of underhanded spam leaves an extremely foul taste in my mouth.





I don't know where you're getting your information from, but you should really get your facts straight. And anyway, why would your original positive feelings be chipped away because of something someone else said?

Posted on: 2008/7/21 13:50
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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somuchspam, solittletime9.

I also vividly remember what this end of Jersey Avenue looked like in 2002, it was unbelievably run down and sketchy. The Liberty Harbor North development is a welcome improvement, and I'm glad the construction took into consideration new urban development practices and is striving to create an integrated mini community, even if it's prefab.

It's a shame the shills are quickly chipping away at all of my original positive feelings. I'm now much less inclined to talk positively about this project to people who are interested in moving to JC, because this kind of underhanded spam leaves an extremely foul taste in my mouth.

Posted on: 2008/7/19 18:47
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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My sister-in-law just purchased in the Sutton building and I can tell you the insulation, especially the windows, prevent most of the ambient noise. I was in her apartment when a full construction crew was working on the building directly opposite her unit?you wouldn?t have known until you opened the window.

And as to poyc?s question, if you were pre-qualified, 5% would not be an unreasonable counter offer. There?s also no harm in asking for 7% and winding up at 5.

Posted on: 2008/7/19 15:10
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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does anyone know if these buildings are well insulated - can hear your neighbors from above, below or beside.

Posted on: 2008/7/19 14:24
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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We're extremely interested in a 2 bedroom unit in the Sutton Building. Has anyone negotiated a price with them? When we met with sales they told us that the prices were not firm so there was room to negotiate, but wondering by what percentage? We're looking to offer about 4-5% below what they're asking for. Is this reasonable or should we be offering less/more than that?

Posted on: 2008/7/19 14:09
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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Do any of you guys actually live in Liberty Harbor? Or do you hate it so much that you post on every thread about it?

I liked it there- I actually went to look at them after all the bashing started, just because I was interested in why so many people were talking about these townhouses, good or bad. They really are very nice, I just want to be able to buy my next place, not rent anymore and throw my money away- and I am still saving up for that.

Posted on: 2008/7/14 18:45
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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Regardless of when construction begins on the lot north of Gull's Cove, I really wish they would do something to clean up the SW corner of Grand & Marin. The Sand Bar hangs banners along the fence that rip in the wind and they still remain up. The wooden signs for the marina are coming off of their posts and littering the ground. There also seems to be a lot of trash in the street and on the sidewalks on this corner.

Posted on: 2008/7/14 15:28
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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Quote:

JPhurst wrote:

The vacant lots aren't pretty, but to call Liberty Harbor or Gulls Cove "isolated" is a stretch. You are one block from historic downtown.

As it happens, the developers for that plot just went to the planning board for some slight revisions to the plan, so they appear to be ready to move forward. The main effect if the vacant lot north of GC remains for a few years? I keep my view in its entirety. That's fine with me.


True enough. That building could be starting fairly soon. I have a Southern view so I'm glad the lot in front of the building will be vacant for a little while.

Those buildings are being done by Applied and are inching forward. But the last time I was in the LHN sales office, the rep told my client that they'll be stopping new construction for at least a year, they'll just be completing the existing construction. But things often change fairly quickly so who knows.

At least for now I can walk that little strip next to the Light Rail tracks and be in Paulus Hook in 2 minutes. Harbor Casino, great food!

Posted on: 2008/7/14 13:32
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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It's not the end of the world if the builders hold off a few years due to the credit crisis. One of the few reservations I have about Liberty Harbor, and New Urbanism generally, is that it tries to create the liveable, shopable, walkable, public transit friendly neighborhood all at once. But cities and neighborhoods develop over time.

So if there is a hiatus between developments that's fine. Things can be reassessed and can evolve to meet the changing needs. As it happens, you already have the public transportation infrastructure in there which isn't going away. So if the Whole Foods or the like don't come in the next few years, it's fine. I've gotten my groceries at Pathmark for years and I to do so. We take our daughter to Van Vorst Park (which attracts parents from other downtown neighborhoods) and we will continue to do so. In fact it's just about the same distance from Gulls Cove as it is from where we lived in Van Vorst Park.

The vacant lots aren't pretty, but to call Liberty Harbor or Gulls Cove "isolated" is a stretch. You are one block from historic downtown.

As it happens, the developers for that plot just went to the planning board for some slight revisions to the plan, so they appear to be ready to move forward. The main effect if the vacant lot north of GC remains for a few years? I keep my view in its entirety. That's fine with me.

Posted on: 2008/7/11 21:04
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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the half-finished and bankrupt LHN might be a worse solution for neighboring property values than empty, weed-filled lots that were there before that.


Absolutely, though I would be more concerned if I were buying actually in Liberty Harbor, especially if I was counting on the convenience of say, a gourmet grocery chain opening up across the street. Not to mention that the open space and parks planned for the community are likely to be the first thing that don't get built.

I think the area of greater concern though is Gulls Cove. Literally, empty lots awaiting construction on three sides. That building is isolated if the planned buildings around it stall for very long. At least the section of LHN along Grand Street is attached to an existing neighborhood.

Posted on: 2008/7/11 19:32
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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ianmac47 wrote:
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injcsince81 wrote:
My point is: how can you make a statement that LHN definitely boosts values of the condos nearby when their values cannot really be established, because they have not sold for a year?


Before LHN went in, the lots those units are on overlooked a former brownfield littered with scrap metal, old tires, and trash, as well as two abandoned buildings. Now they overlook landscaped streets and buildings with people living inside. So yeah, I think its safe to say that LHN has helped property values of the lots on Grand Street.

There are plenty of reasons why any given condo has not sold. It could be that the credit crisis, also going on for a year now, has kept away buys who cannot get mortgages. Maybe the units are poorly laid out, or poorly constructed, or just priced too high.


I agree with ianmac47.

As Liberty Harbor North is developed further, it's highly likely the brand-new LHN neighborhood will help boost nearby property values.

I haven't thought about what the area around Jersey Avenue and Grand Street used to look like in quite awhile.

When I first moved here in 2001, it was SUCH A DUMP with dilapidated buildings and littered empty lots.

The Jersey City Medical Center was still located where The Beacon is now, the Brownstone Diner and Pancake Factory was a rickety little joint called the Newport Pancake House (before they knocked it down and started over) and there were a series of deserted buildings over where the new Primary and Middle schools now stand. And behind the Pancake House stood an abandoned-looking gas station.

The new hospital center, new public schools and reborn restaurant are a welcome addition to the neighborhood.

Would the revitalization have happened as quickly without LHN on the horizon?

Maybe or maybe not, but every little bit helps and I welcome all of the positive changes to the area.

Posted on: 2008/7/11 19:02
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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ianmac47 wrote:

I think LHN will do a lot to change areas to the west of Jersey Avenue, something that has been slow to happen naturally.


I am now most interested in seeing what Liberty Harbor North's impact may be on the redevelopment of the Old Colony Square shopping center (where Pathmark is located) as well as on the rise of neighboring Bergen-Lafayette.

Posted on: 2008/7/11 18:54
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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I say it's safe to say that when the units actually sell.

Not to belabor the point, but if the current market crashes in the worst way (which may actually happen given the stock market declining by 2% every day, Fannie May, Freddie Mac, the dollar, the price of gas - get my drift?), the half-finished and bankrupt LHN might be a worse solution for neighboring property values than empty, weed-filled lots that were there before that.

Sometimes ability to wait for the right market is a virtue.

Think long term.

Posted on: 2008/7/11 18:24
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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injcsince81 wrote:
My point is: how can you make a statement that LHN definitely boosts values of the condos nearby when their values cannot really be established, because they have not sold for a year?


Before LHN went in, the lots those units are on overlooked a former brownfield littered with scrap metal, old tires, and trash, as well as two abandoned buildings. Now they overlook landscaped streets and buildings with people living inside. So yeah, I think its safe to say that LHN has helped property values of the lots on Grand Street.

There are plenty of reasons why any given condo has not sold. It could be that the credit crisis, also going on for a year now, has kept away buys who cannot get mortgages. Maybe the units are poorly laid out, or poorly constructed, or just priced too high.

Posted on: 2008/7/11 17:04
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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fashionista422 wrote:

I wasn't trying to credit Liberty Harbor for Jersey City's up-and-coming status. LOL, sometimes people take things way too seriously- I just like the fact that there are places like this so close to the city so I can live well and get to work in Manhattan in a timely fashion.

I'm sorry to have upset any of you, I just had a pleasant experience and wanted to voice it.

I hope everyone has a great weekend.


No worries -- I'm glad you voiced your opinion and it's always nice to have a mix of viewpoints represented. Welcome to JCList.com and you have a nice weekend too.

Posted on: 2008/7/11 15:42
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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My point is: how can you make a statement that LHN definitely boosts values of the condos nearby when their values cannot really be established, because they have not sold for a year?

Posted on: 2008/7/11 15:33
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ianmac47 wrote:
I think its definitely a boost in values for properties like the currently underdevelopment 296 Grand Street, and those other two apartment complexes next to the Brownstoner that are brand new.

.


They have not been able to sell those condos next to the Brownsone diner for close to a year now. In the first couple of months, some punks broke the windows of the model apt.

They dropped the prices about 3 months ago, now they are being offered as "rent with option to buy".




Thank you Ian for being positive :) I agree... InJC, what is your point? I'm not trying to say that you're wrong, but we are in a recession period and kids will be punks anywhere- renting with the option to buy, especially for brownstones and condos in Jersey City is inevitable. Times are hard and I'm sure breaking the windowing perpetuated this, but I don't think that dropping prices for the time being ultimately means the whole area is going downhill. I think it's an unfortunate happening that needed to be dealt with.

Posted on: 2008/7/11 14:42
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Re: Liberty Harbor North
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ianmac47 wrote:
I think its definitely a boost in values for properties like the currently underdevelopment 296 Grand Street, and those other two apartment complexes next to the Brownstoner that are brand new.

.


They have not been able to sell those condos next to the Brownsone diner for close to a year now. In the first couple of months, some punks broke the windows of the model apt.

They dropped the prices about 3 months ago, now they are being offered as "rent with option to buy".

Posted on: 2008/7/11 14:30
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