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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Vigilante wrote:
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ianmac47 wrote:
All of this complaining is policy through emotional response. That helps no one.

You think these towers are causing some kind of change, like they will be a catalyst to ruining quality of life in Journal Square. That's not it. The change has already happened. These towers are the result, not the cause, the product, not the catalyst.

They are to built practically on top of the Journal Square transit center. Buses, PATH, and what could have been a light rail station if the don't-change-anything crowd hadn't been so oppositional to running a line down Sixth Street.

The traffic problems with fix themselves. If there is too much traffic, more people will take transit.

Let the grownups talk now.



Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.


That's a mass transit issue, not a housing issue. If more people want to live here, we need to add more mass transit options. Not sure why PATH has the monopoly on trains to NYC - other organizations should be able to develop routes as well.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 14:25
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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ianmac47 wrote:
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Vigilante wrote:
Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.


There wouldn't be a development if there wasn't the expectation that it could be sold or rented. If it will be built, then it can be sold.

If a development of this size can be built with the expectation of being sold, it is only because there is already demand for that product.

The same people complaining that this is too big and out of scale will be complaining that rents are becoming unaffordable. Well yes, that's what happens when demand outstrips supply and you don't build more supply.


Many buildings that were built to sell failed and ended up renting to the endless supply of Indians and other Asians who are willing to split a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment amongst four, five or more people. The expected influx of said number of people ends up doubling and tripling. Sometimes it's even worse.

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/jerse ... 29740914961260.xml&coll=3

Posted on: 2013/1/6 14:11
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Vigilante wrote:
Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.


There wouldn't be a development if there wasn't the expectation that it could be sold or rented. If it will be built, then it can be sold.

If a development of this size can be built with the expectation of being sold, it is only because there is already demand for that product.

The same people complaining that this is too big and out of scale will be complaining that rents are becoming unaffordable. Well yes, that's what happens when demand outstrips supply and you don't build more supply.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 13:22
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Dahood wrote:
For allowing the developer to build extra floors, the city could at least get him to build a park in JSQ.

a park? there is plenty of space for the homeless to sleep already..

At least with a park they won't be in the way of productive society.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 3:34
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Dahood wrote:
For allowing the developer to build extra floors, the city could atleast get him to build a park in JSQ.


a park? there is plenty of space for the homeless to sleep already..

Posted on: 2013/1/6 0:30
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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For allowing the developer to build extra floors, the city could atleast get him to build a park in JSQ.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 21:17
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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what private development is not for development sake? one could have said that about newport back in the 80's, one could have said that about hudosn county in the 1800s.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 21:00
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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ianmac47 wrote:
All of this complaining is policy through emotional response. That helps no one.

You think these towers are causing some kind of change, like they will be a catalyst to ruining quality of life in Journal Square. That's not it. The change has already happened. These towers are the result, not the cause, the product, not the catalyst.

They are to built practically on top of the Journal Square transit center. Buses, PATH, and what could have been a light rail station if the don't-change-anything crowd hadn't been so oppositional to running a line down Sixth Street.

The traffic problems with fix themselves. If there is too much traffic, more people will take transit.

Let the grownups talk now.



Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 19:57
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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ripple wrote:
The Heights and Greenville never would have been developed the way they are now had it not been for the streetcars, which used to be ubiquitous around Jersey City if you look at some old maps. This is prime real estate that will be under-utilized until it becomes politically possible again to engage in the type of major infrastructure projects that originally made this area.

Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
All of this complaining is policy through emotional response. That helps no one.

You think these towers are causing some kind of change, like they will be a catalyst to ruining quality of life in Journal Square. That's not it. The change has already happened. These towers are the result, not the cause, the product, not the catalyst.

They are to built practically on top of the Journal Square transit center. Buses, PATH, and what could have been a light rail station if the don't-change-anything crowd hadn't been so oppositional to running a line down Sixth Street.

The traffic problems with fix themselves. If there is too much traffic, more people will take transit.

Let the grownups talk now.


Resized Image

Greenville when the streetcars were introduced. :) Old Bergen & Bartholdi looking south - Greenville Park at right. Still a fire hydrant on that corner. 4/10/1947.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 18:25
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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The Heights and Greenville never would have been developed the way they are now had it not been for the streetcars, which used to be ubiquitous around Jersey City if you look at some old maps. This is prime real estate that will be under-utilized until it becomes politically possible again to engage in the type of major infrastructure projects that originally made this area.

Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
All of this complaining is policy through emotional response. That helps no one.

You think these towers are causing some kind of change, like they will be a catalyst to ruining quality of life in Journal Square. That's not it. The change has already happened. These towers are the result, not the cause, the product, not the catalyst.

They are to built practically on top of the Journal Square transit center. Buses, PATH, and what could have been a light rail station if the don't-change-anything crowd hadn't been so oppositional to running a line down Sixth Street.

The traffic problems with fix themselves. If there is too much traffic, more people will take transit.

Let the grownups talk now.


Posted on: 2013/1/5 18:05
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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All of this complaining is policy through emotional response. That helps no one.

You think these towers are causing some kind of change, like they will be a catalyst to ruining quality of life in Journal Square. That's not it. The change has already happened. These towers are the result, not the cause, the product, not the catalyst.

They are to built practically on top of the Journal Square transit center. Buses, PATH, and what could have been a light rail station if the don't-change-anything crowd hadn't been so oppositional to running a line down Sixth Street.

The traffic problems with fix themselves. If there is too much traffic, more people will take transit.

Let the grownups talk now.


Posted on: 2013/1/5 17:40
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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And what about parks for the young kids to play? Do you expect them to go to the city too? Or do you expect them to stay indoors and play video games and put on weight?

Posted on: 2013/1/5 17:17
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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NJ should stop emulating "big brother" NYC. NYC has an excellent public transit system with an extensive subway network and bus system where the subways do not run. You can hire a cab from anywhere very easily. And in the neighborhoods, you will find all the options for dining, drinking, shopping, etc. JC has light rail, which runs only in couple of neighborhoods. There aren't many shopping, dining etc options. So where do you expect all these new folks to go for all the amenities? Take the PATH and go to the city? These buildings will have garages and most people will own cars and add to the traffic and pollution. This is not smart growth.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 17:14
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Another straw added to the PATH camel's back...

Posted on: 2013/1/5 15:55
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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JCCheerleader wrote:
It's not a good investment when the local streets can't handle traffic as it is. I'm for development-IF it makes sense. This doesn't make sense. It's disproportionate to the existing surrounding buildings, it's too dense, and the streets can't handle any more congestion. This building is as tall as that ugly Goldman Sashs monstronsity Downtown and it doesn't belong where it's going in.


When will people realize that development in a very dense urban city is NOT about vehicular traffic. It's actually about the opposite - higher density equals higher reliance on public transit. This building will sit ON TOP of the Journal Square Path station. How will this clog up the streets exactly??

Posted on: 2013/1/5 15:20
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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I think it makes sense to towers around mass transit. of course, the port authority needs to work on making the PATH more efficient - why not doublee-decker trains or articulated trains.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 11:19
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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The reason you have high density at a transportation hub is to cut down on traffic as people that live in those buildings will walk to mass transportation. You build it further away and people will then drive to the transportation center.

This is an excellent project. Tax abatements where they are appropriate to create an incentive for development are not the problem. The problem is how the money from the PILOTs (the City brings in more money than traditional taxes on these projects) is used/squandered.

Jersey City needs a growing tax base so that fewer of us don't shoulder the tax burden. The City also needs an intelligent and sustainable budget plan.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 9:37
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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It's not a good investment when the local streets can't handle traffic as it is. I'm for development-IF it makes sense. This doesn't make sense. It's disproportionate to the existing surrounding buildings, it's too dense, and the streets can't handle any more congestion. This building is as tall as that ugly Goldman Sashs monstronsity Downtown and it doesn't belong where it's going in.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 9:28
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Whether you are for it or against it this does seem like a good investment.

I wish, i had the money to buy into it. :(

Posted on: 2013/1/5 3:35
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Oh they are smart. They've probably all gotten a few free dinners/tickets to sporting events/a few afternoons of golf, ontop of campaign contributions. All the while they're not going to be affected personally by any of this development. If you think they care about the people of JSQ, you better wake up and start going to Planning Board meetings where you have the opportunity to grill them infront of a live audience from your neighborhood.

Posted on: 2013/1/4 23:54
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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There'll be no crumbling of any infastructure. The builders have to make upgrades to it or their buildings won't have water/sewer services. That being said, where is our money for our air rights? Thanks to the wisdom of the Planning Board, we're going to have massive traffic jambs on streets that were laid down for horse and buggy travel and we never got paid for our air rights. The Planning Board gave it away. Thanks JC Planning Board! And they gave our air rights to developers who don't have to pay federal income tax on their profits because they're building near a transportation center. Oh, and the City thinks it's a good idea to give them tax abatements on our local level, too. How smart are they??

Posted on: 2013/1/4 21:31
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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What's that sound? Its the sound of forlorn infrastructure crumbling at Journal Square for another year.

Posted on: 2012/12/7 9:06
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Does it flood a lot in Journal Sqaure? I can understand at the base of the Heights. Maybe the developers should be required to pay into a fund to build giant holding tanks/pumping stations

Posted on: 2012/12/6 22:52
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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wow. by the end of 2013. thats' more than a year ago. why not within 6 months.

Posted on: 2012/12/6 22:49
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Jersey City panel approves three-tower Journal Square development

By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal
December 06, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Resized ImageThree residential towers containing nearly 2,000 units may soon call Journal Square home, with the Jersey City Planning Board this week approving a plan that city officials hope will jumpstart development in the heart of the city.

The towers would sit adjacent to the Journal Square PATH station, just west of Summit Avenue, and the project includes a public plaza connecting Summit to the transportation hub.

Developers KRE Group are behind the project, and the company hopes to begin construction by the end of 2013.

"KRE are proven developers in Jersey City with successful projects such as 225 Marin," said city spokeswoman Jennifer Morrill. "It is classic example of transit-oriented development with density located next to mass transit."

The three towers are just one of a number of possibly transformative developments planned for Journal Square, including a two-tower project long planned for the lot just south of the PATH station and across the street from The Jersey Journal office.

Another possible project is a residential tower planned for a lot near the old Summit House, one that could reach up to 42 stories, though a city official recently called that development a “pipe dream.”

Journal Square’s Hilltop Neighborhood Association is against the scope of the KRE towers, according to its president, Rich Boggiano. Boggiano said he is pro-development, but 70-story towers would tower over homes in the neighborhood.

“Nobody in this city listens to the neighborhood. Nobody listens to the people of Jersey City,” he said.

The first phase of the project would be a 54-story tower with 540 units, followed by a 70-story structure containing 700 units. The third tower would have 60 stories and 600 units. Each tower would have a retail or restaurant component.

The Hilltop group believes the project will increase traffic problems in Journal Square and put strain on the local sewer system and local schools.

City officials have said the project is ideal for the site, since its proximity to the PATH station will attract residents who don’t have cars.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... y_panel_approves_thr.html

Posted on: 2012/12/6 20:10
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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PATH staff (and JC planning) have repeatedly touted these two improvements as each one increasing capacity 20%. add some type of peak pricing and they believe they can accommodate increased density at not just Journal Square (I believe the planned if/when built out plan adds 60,000 residents before this latest bump), but also Harrison and Newark.

the arguments is that the development will pay for infrastructure, development of parks etc. however, I remained concerned that residential development adds costs of services and will not alone pay for it.

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ianmac47 wrote:

1. New signal system will increase train frequency.
2. Platform extensions on the WTC-NWK Line will allow for 10 car trains.




The development won't add these people all at once. Even a building of 1,000 units doesn't just swing open their doors; residents arrive over a period of a year or more, and probably more typically over a period of two years.

Not all those people will ride the PATH into the city, or at the same time. And people will adjust.

I would agree that eventually in the long term, a third set of tunnels connecting New York and Hudson county will probably be necessary to sustain growth, but that is years away from being necessary.

Posted on: 2012/11/30 10:03
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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"the arguments is that the development will pay for infrastructure, development of parks etc."

Lol. Tell that to anyone who has lived in the city for the past ten years or more and pays property taxes. The politicians ALWAYS claim that the new developments ("ratables") will bring in revenue that will ease the tax burden, but we now have solid evidence that this is a bunch of bullsh*t. Taxes have only gone up for long-time residents over the past few years as more and more developers have gotten MASSIVE handouts in the form of long-term tax abatements, while the addition of the ratables has required extensive infrastructure investments by the city. paid for not by the new developments, but by long-time residents.

Posted on: 2012/11/29 23:07
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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I tell you, I'm skeptical that these improvements to the PATH are going to be enough or are even realistic, but at least they've thought it through to some degree or another.

Anybody know exactly what tax abatement they've managed to bully the city into?

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DanL wrote:

PATH staff (and JC planning) have repeatedly touted these two improvements as each one increasing capacity 20%. add some type of peak pricing and they believe they can accommodate increased density at not just Journal Square (I believe the planned if/when built out plan adds 60,000 residents before this latest bump), but also Harrison and Newark.

the arguments is that the development will pay for infrastructure, development of parks etc. however, I remained concerned that residential development adds costs of services and will not alone pay for it.

Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:

1. New signal system will increase train frequency.
2. Platform extensions on the WTC-NWK Line will allow for 10 car trains.



Posted on: 2012/11/29 21:53
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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PATH staff (and JC planning) have repeatedly touted these two improvements as each one increasing capacity 20%. add some type of peak pricing and they believe they can accommodate increased density at not just Journal Square (I believe the planned if/when built out plan adds 60,000 residents before this latest bump), but also Harrison and Newark.

the arguments is that the development will pay for infrastructure, development of parks etc. however, I remained concerned that residential development adds costs of services and will not alone pay for it.

Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:

1. New signal system will increase train frequency.
2. Platform extensions on the WTC-NWK Line will allow for 10 car trains.



Posted on: 2012/11/29 21:14
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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ianmac47 wrote:

1. New signal system will increase train frequency.
2. Platform extensions on the WTC-NWK Line will allow for 10 car trains.




Add two more to your list:

Some more well-off people on the waterfront may migrate to the ferry as the PATH becomes more crowded, taking some load off it the system.

[Long Shot] Expanding the HBLR further down the abandoned freight right of way, bringing it to JSQ for people commuting to Exchange Place, etc. Yes, I know this would require some major track work re-alignment.. like I said.. long shot.

Posted on: 2012/11/29 16:52
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