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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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jcguy05 wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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mscottc wrote:
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jcguy05 wrote:
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I am not clear why abatement tax will be higher than your actual property tax, according to above info i was given from the abatement tax lady, it should never happen. I guess maybe some building has special non-standard abatement contracts.


This is because some abatements are based on, at least for a portion of the abatement period, on a calculation that has nothing to do with the normal tax rates, but a formula based on the highest purchase price and common charges. It is possible for that formula to wind up creating a number that is higher than the unabated tax bill.


This. Plus, remember that 80% of the previous "effective tax rate" (.8 * 2.1 = 1.68) actually comes out higher than the estimated tax rate for 2018. Abatements were based on a "calculated" effective tax rate that we now know was completely off.



1) Abatement based on purchase price - that explanation makes sense. I remember while reading my pilot doc it had similar provision, and pick whatever is the higher $. Since my building's abatement started like 15-20 years back, this is a non-item as 80% of my current property tax will always be much higher than the purchase price back then for the unit.

But i can see if you bought a million dollar condo with abatement now, you may end up paying more than normal tax even with the percent discount if abatement is based on the million dollar purchase price while regular tax is based on the assessed value.

2) bodhipooh, i am not clear on the tax rate you mentioned. The previous tax rate is 7.8. The proposed tax rate is 1.62 The abatement discount is always 80%.

So it's previous assessed value * 0.078 * 0.8 vs new assessed value * 0.0162 * 0.8

If assessed value remain same then the property tax would go down significantly, but in my case and most cases the new assessed value is significantly higher. So even with the lower rate your new property tax is higher. Abatement is always just 80% of the actual property tax (assume it's not based on purchase price or anything special as previously said).

Can you clarify? thanks


That 7.8 was the "tax rate" based on the equalization rate, which was close to one quarter. The effective tax rate in 2016 was 2.1. That was the computed rate that the city "felt" everyone was paying based on valuations that were "kept up to date" by means of the equalization rate.. Obviously, that was all off kilter, which is what the reval is supposed to address.

In other words, on paper the tax rate was 7.8% of the assessed value, which was ~2.1% when the equalization rate was applied.

In any case, what I suspect savvy homeowners will do (or, those who are advised properly by a person with basic math skills) is compute their tax payment in either scenario (remaining in the abatement contract, or moving off it) and then make a decision based on the result. There is definitely safety in staying with the abatement if you think that school taxes could go up (a possibility, indeed) but if the difference is large enough, I can see people definitely moving off abatement contracts to get the new "low" rate of 1.62.

I know, from my personal connections, that some homeowners that are currently in abated properties would actually get a reduction in taxes if they go off their contracts. The story pushed by so many in here, and elsewhere, that people with abatements are getting a free ride is simply false. Lots of them were paying effective tax rates that were the same, or more, than the average non abated DTJC homeowner.

Posted on: 2/13 11:36
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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bodhipooh wrote:
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mscottc wrote:
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jcguy05 wrote:
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I am not clear why abatement tax will be higher than your actual property tax, according to above info i was given from the abatement tax lady, it should never happen. I guess maybe some building has special non-standard abatement contracts.


This is because some abatements are based on, at least for a portion of the abatement period, on a calculation that has nothing to do with the normal tax rates, but a formula based on the highest purchase price and common charges. It is possible for that formula to wind up creating a number that is higher than the unabated tax bill.


This. Plus, remember that 80% of the previous "effective tax rate" (.8 * 2.1 = 1.68) actually comes out higher than the estimated tax rate for 2018. Abatements were based on a "calculated" effective tax rate that we now know was completely off.



1) Abatement based on purchase price - that explanation makes sense. I remember while reading my pilot doc it had similar provision, and pick whatever is the higher $. Since my building's abatement started like 15-20 years back, this is a non-item as 80% of my current property tax will always be much higher than the purchase price back then for the unit.

But i can see if you bought a million dollar condo with abatement now, you may end up paying more than normal tax even with the percent discount if abatement is based on the million dollar purchase price while regular tax is based on the assessed value.

2) bodhipooh, i am not clear on the tax rate you mentioned. The previous tax rate is 7.8. The proposed tax rate is 1.62 The abatement discount is always 80%.

So it's previous assessed value * 0.078 * 0.8 vs new assessed value * 0.0162 * 0.8

If assessed value remain same then the property tax would go down significantly, but in my case and most cases the new assessed value is significantly higher. So even with the lower rate your new property tax is higher. Abatement is always just 80% of the actual property tax (assume it's not based on purchase price or anything special as previously said).

Can you clarify? thanks

Posted on: 2/13 10:18
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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mscottc wrote:
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jcguy05 wrote:
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I am not clear why abatement tax will be higher than your actual property tax, according to above info i was given from the abatement tax lady, it should never happen. I guess maybe some building has special non-standard abatement contracts.


This is because some abatements are based on, at least for a portion of the abatement period, on a calculation that has nothing to do with the normal tax rates, but a formula based on the highest purchase price and common charges. It is possible for that formula to wind up creating a number that is higher than the unabated tax bill.


This. Plus, remember that 80% of the previous "effective tax rate" (.8 * 2.1 = 1.68) actually comes out higher than the estimated tax rate for 2018. Abatements were based on a "calculated" effective tax rate that we now know was completely off.

Posted on: 2/13 9:12
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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jcguy05 wrote:
snip

I am not clear why abatement tax will be higher than your actual property tax, according to above info i was given from the abatement tax lady, it should never happen. I guess maybe some building has special non-standard abatement contracts.


This is because some abatements are based on, at least for a portion of the abatement period, on a calculation that has nothing to do with the normal tax rates, but a formula based on the highest purchase price and common charges. It is possible for that formula to wind up creating a number that is higher than the unabated tax bill.

Posted on: 2/12 22:16
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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OP here, so I went to city hall and met with both the representative from the appraisal company(lots angry people there) and also the abatement clerk in the tax collector office to get to the bottom of this.

Here are the info:

1) New tax rate * new total assessment value = your property tax.
2) New tax rate is still being determined by JC and is not available, the best guess appraisers used is 1.62. So it should be close to that number.
3) New total assessment value is the sum of land + structure, and the total of course varies between each unit depends on the new assessment you got.
4) Compare the new total assessment against similar units in your area sold in the last year, if your assessment is higher (by 15%) you should file tax appeal to reduce it. If it is not, you can still file tax appeal but it wont help much. Key is finding similar comparable units sold in the last year with a lower price than your total assessment.

5) Now for pilot/abatement, it is only on the structure, you pay land tax as regular tax.

Easier to explain using my example:

My current 2017 assessment (include exempt + taxable portion) is $132,800
-TAXABLE PORTION: $3,500 (actual taxes @ 7.8 rate/$100 assessed = $273)--> $3500 is the previous land assessment, and I pay $273/year as regular tax for land.
-EXEMPT PORTION: $129,300 --> this is the tax abatement portion (i pay ~$8000 in abatement, which is 80% of the actual property tax: 129300*0.078*0.8 )

New 2018 assessment is $584,700
- TAXABLE PORTION: $100,000 (estimated taxes @1.62 rate/$100 assessed = $1,620) --> $100,000 is the new land assessment. And with the new rate, i pay $1620 in regular tax for land
- EXEMPT PORTION: $484,700 --> this is the new tax abatement portion, similar to before, i will pay 80% of the actual property tax. So in this case: 484700*0.0162*0.8 (assume actual rate is 1.62)


6) Final note on abatement, for the abatement percentage (80% in my case) of total tax you pay for abatement, refer to your building docs as many have said. They increase as the years go on (varies by building, example: 15% of actual tax for year1-5, 40% for year5-10, 60% for year10-20, 80% for year20-expiration). Refer to your pilot abatement docs.

Another easier way is take the sum of abatement payment + regular tax(land tax) for last year divide by the actual annual tax you would paid if there was no abatement, and that percentage is your current abatement percent discount of actual property tax.

So dont worry too much about your abatement, focus on finding out what your actual tax will be without abatement, if that is reasonable, then you should be fine.

---

I am not clear why abatement tax will be higher than your actual property tax, according to above info i was given from the abatement tax lady, it should never happen. I guess maybe some building has special non-standard abatement contracts.

Posted on: 2/12 18:40
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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tnr wrote:
If so, my total taxes with reval under PILOT will exceed the taxes I would have paid if there was no abatement. Which seems odd.


Not at all odd, and it is something that has been discussed many times over in this board. Do a Google search (the search feature of this site is very lacking, so better off using Google) and you will find threads from as far back as 2006 discussing this. Some people will find that, after the reval, they are better off going off their abatement contract. And, legally, you are able to do so. So, for anyone on an abatement contract, take a closer look, run the numbers, and choose whatever is most beneficial.

Posted on: 2/11 15:15
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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Thanks mscottc, it is starting to make more sense.

Since the PILOT agreement is based on Unit Sales Price, I dont see Imputed Debt Service charge changing for me. Is that correct?

If so, my total taxes with reval under PILOT will exceed the taxes I would have paid if there was no abatement. Which seems odd.

Posted on: 2/11 14:33
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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Upcoming community meetings with the Downtown councilman will be held:

February 12 – Village Neighborhood Association, Casa Columbo (380 Monmouth St.), 6:45-8 p.m.

February 12 – Harsimus Cove Association, Grace Van Vorst Church (Entrance on 2nd St.), 8:15-9:30 p.m.

February 20 – Van Vorst Park Association, Barrow Mansion (83 Wayne St.), 7:30-9 p.m

https://twitter.com/SolomonforJC/status/962428582814502912

https://jerseydigs.com/jersey-city-pro ... on-what-you-need-to-know/

Posted on: 2/11 10:21
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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"Imputed debt service" is essentially the payment on hypothetical mortgage based on the conditions set out in the PILOT agreement. In my case, and I'd assume others, that mortgage is based on the highest sale price of the property's history, so you'd need to know that.

There are plenty of EXCEL spreadsheet templates that can help you figure that. Or find an online financial calculator.

"Common Charges" are your monthly or annual condo/coop maintenance charges.

Posted on: 2/10 18:00
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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I am in the same boat as OP and tried to follow the suggestion to calculate my abated taxes, but on my letter there are line items like "Imputed Debt Service" and "Common Charges". Any pointers on how to calculate those? Or should I just assume the ratio of Imputed Debt Service / Unit Sales Price and use it to calculate PILOT amount?

Posted on: 2/10 16:02
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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To the OP,
You need to find your governing documents. Somewhere in that large document is the Abatement Agreement, or PILOT/Payment in lieu of Taxes. Use that and the Abatement charge document you should have been getting twice a year, which also shows the calculation. Try to figure the arithmetic on that calculation. It may seem complicated, but it's really just Junior High level arithmetic. And then pay attention to the Phase Out that's documented as part of the abatement agreement, and apply that.

Posted on: 2/2 17:11
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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Quote:

avinandre wrote:
What happens if you move out of PILOT will it be 1.62*584k ?


i dunno, i am so confused with this abatement, i wish there is a site or someone knowledgeable who can explain.

Going by 584k * 1.62 = $9460, i will actually be paying the same as with abatement which is: $8000 (abatement) + 1620 = 9620.

And if you remove abatement all together, my previous regular tax below, which is 132800*0.078 = $10358.

So my property tax actually went down a little? But then why is only 3500/132800 regular tax last year, but this year it is 100000/584700 regular tax? None of this makes any freaking sense.

My current 2017 assessment (include exempt + taxable portion) is $132,800
-TAXABLE PORTION: $3,500 (actual taxes @ 7.8 rate/$100 assessed = $273)
-EXEMPT PORTION: $129,300

New 2018 assessment is $584,700
- TAXABLE PORTION: $100,000 (estimated taxes @1.62 rate/$100 assessed = $1,620)
- EXEMPT PORTION: $484,700

Posted on: 2/2 15:16

Edited by jcguy05 on 2018/2/2 15:38:18
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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What happens if you move out of PILOT will it be 1.62*584k ?

Posted on: 2/1 23:38
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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The details are contained in the tax abatement agreement, which likely differs for each property (much commonality, but some derivation for each). You should be able to access it form your condo's (master) agreement.

Posted on: 1/31 10:42
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Re: help reading appraisal from revaluation
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jcguy05 wrote:
Hi guys,

As part of the revaluation in jersey city, i was just sent an appraisal report for my 1 br condo in downtown, which is still under tax abatement.

I currently pay ~$8k in abatement tax and ~$270 in property tax

I need some help on reading what this bill is actually saying, because it is very confusing. Can someone please in simple terms explain to me what the appraiser is saying and what my new tax abatement and property tax will be?

This is what is in the letter:

My current 2017 assessment (include exempt + taxable portion) is $132,800
-TAXABLE PORTION: $3,500 (actual taxes @ 7.8 rate/$100 assessed = $273)
-EXEMPT PORTION: $129,300

New 2018 assessment is $584,700
- TAXABLE PORTION: $100,000 (estimated taxes @1.62 rate/$100 assessed = $1,620)
- EXEMPT PORTION: $484,700

So my understanding is my property tax is going up from $273 to $1,620. But what about my tax abatement which is currently at $8000, the exempt portion amount also went up 4x, does that mean i have to pay $32,000 in tax abatement payments now? for a 1br condo???

Any clarity you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thank you


As far as I understand, if its exempt, it's exempt, and will stay at the same cost. This whole process, as Yvonne will endlessly tell us, leaves out the properties not in the taxable base. They're simply realigning the assessment with the reality of current values. When your abatement expires, then you'll be taxes on the full assessment.

What I don't understand is the change in proportion. One theory is since the land is not exempt, just the improvement, and land has gone up dramatically, that it results in the non-exempt portion rising relative to the exempt.

Posted on: 1/31 10:06
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help reading appraisal from revaluation
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Hi guys,

As part of the revaluation in jersey city, i was just sent an appraisal report for my 1 br condo in downtown, which is still under tax abatement.

I currently pay ~$8k in abatement tax and ~$270 in property tax

I need some help on reading what this bill is actually saying, because it is very confusing. Can someone please in simple terms explain to me what the appraiser is saying and what my new tax abatement and property tax will be?

This is what is in the letter:

My current 2017 assessment (include exempt + taxable portion) is $132,800
-TAXABLE PORTION: $3,500 (actual taxes @ 7.8 rate/$100 assessed = $273)
-EXEMPT PORTION: $129,300

New 2018 assessment is $584,700
- TAXABLE PORTION: $100,000 (estimated taxes @1.62 rate/$100 assessed = $1,620)
- EXEMPT PORTION: $484,700

So my understanding is my property tax is going up from $273 to $1,620. But what about my tax abatement which is currently at $8000, the exempt portion amount also went up 4x, does that mean i have to pay $32,000 in tax abatement payments now? for a 1br condo???

Any clarity you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thank you

Posted on: 1/30 22:23
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