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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
 
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2007/1/11 21:47 Last Login : 2022/7/25 21:48 From Van Vorst Park area
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How refreshing to read a thoughtful thread on this board, with no rants on national politics.
Happy Thanksgiving, neighbors.
Posted on: 2016/11/23 21:31
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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Re: Parking -- Michael Yun's team was putting together meetings on various "parking" topics (e.g. illegal parking spots). Not sure if they have started the meetings, but contact his office for more information.
Posted on: 2016/11/22 17:46
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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Off of Webster Ave, three new building were put up that are not BB types, which completely surprised me. The three replaced a disaster of a building that was torn down last year. I'll snap a photo later today and post it.
Posted on: 2016/11/20 15:18
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Not too shy to talk
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Although I would prefer the same old same old corniced brownstone, the photo you posted shows a house that someone took some time with: it has its own integrity and specific aesthetic, as opposed to the cheap looking, out-of-the-box BB house. I kind of like it the more I look at it...
Posted on: 2016/11/20 14:32
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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This is a the right direction, how to lever people without taking away their rights. If you allow more units if it conforms to some sort of aesthetic review, it's win win. We don't necessarily want to create what the conservators call "fake historic", but to create some guidelines to work within, like conform to the facade setback of the neighbors and have similar roofline. There's plenty of DT & Hoboken infill that has modern elements yet fits in to the streetscape. Here's a question: Is the 4th st house below better or worse than a brickfaced BB for our streetscape? It wasn't cheap. 
Posted on: 2016/11/20 4:57
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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It will also help keep rents lower without squeezing the building owners. A lot of the new, high density construction has been focused on higher end (i.e. $3k+ a month) apartments. There is a lot of demand for say a 2 bedroom at $1,200, but it is impossible to offer something in that price range when you can only build 2 units on a 25' x 100' lot. As a landlord, I would rather have a portfolio of mid range apartments than the high end stuff (at least here in the Heights). I am less likely to have vacancies during hard economic times.
Posted on: 2016/11/19 18:25
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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At the minimum we can ask for flexibility. The current zoning allows these two unit boxes. It can be tweaked to allow 4 units with a more interesting design, like the R5 zoning did downtown. 4 units with a more interesting design is more profitable than a two unit Bayonne Box.
Posted on: 2016/11/19 18:03
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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The latter sounds like the way to go, to create a "stakeholder entity" that can consistently argue it's case. We've got to remember that this is a unique time to push this issue, when the Masterplan is being reviewed and citizen input is a mandated part of that process. This is not going to be easy, since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, re: Dingers remark on MDM's drawings. For the buyers of these monsters, beauty is clearly a low price. Also any zoning, but particularly aesthetic zoning, runs up against the rights of property owners. Who are we to say whether a steel and glass curtain wall rowhouse is prettier or uglier than a Bayonne Box?
Posted on: 2016/11/19 17:19
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Just can't stay away
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[quote]
MDM wrote: Turns out I still have some draft plans for my long since cancelled project in the Heights (corner lot). This is the 2 family version. It just didn't work out financially. It would have worked as a three family (one more floor) and even better as a 4 family (2 more floors). There used to be a 6 family on the site, which had burned down. Jeezus that is one fugly pile of doo doo. I hope you aren't an archie.
Posted on: 2016/11/18 23:17
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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I don't trust RNA one bit, and they don't speak for me. There were the biggest opponents against the Central Avenue plan.
Posted on: 2016/11/18 21:33
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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2005/3/2 4:49 Last Login : 2018/6/12 15:20 From Downtown Ex Pat happy in McGinley Sq.
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Where does RNA stand on this? I thought they favored the zoning changes you guys are discussing and had already begun working on it...?
Posted on: 2016/11/18 21:27
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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I know some of the property & business owners on Central Ave. All pro development. All frustrated with the zoning. I already reached out to one of them.
Posted on: 2016/11/18 21:00
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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Turns out I still have some draft plans for my long since cancelled project in the Heights (corner lot).
This is the 2 family version. It just didn't work out financially. It would have worked as a three family (one more floor) and even better as a 4 family (2 more floors). There used to be a 6 family on the site, which had burned down. The framing was going to be steel. The facade' (was going for a stone like surface) wasn't settled on before the project was abandoned.  
Posted on: 2016/11/18 20:58
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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2007/8/1 19:34 Last Login : 2022/4/27 19:59 From journal square
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Quote:
i know sketchup and depending on the scope of work, could likely make some mock ups or maps if time permits to help out. i would get all the ducks in a row first to know who to go to with this info first, but glad to help if it means putting an end to these structures from being built.
Posted on: 2016/11/18 20:12
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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Here is an example of an infill building with a garage that's based more on a small-scale industrial building, which there are lot of in the Heights. Some things it suggests to me are - no parking outside of the garage, keeping the streetwall, attached or semi-attached, setbacks to keep the flat roofs, etc.
Posted on: 2016/11/18 20:08
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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Count me in! A few questions/suggestions:
Is the best approach to start by reaching out to Councilman Yun, or form a group to prepare a campaign, visuals, etc., to take directly to the MasterPlan committee? In NYC, where I work in historic preservation, well organized and articulate advocacy groups get the elected officials behind them. Market demographics - I live in the Heights, and have watched these go up over the last 8 years. They overwhelmingly sell to immigrant families, for whom they provide an investment asset as well as a home (I'm currently looking to rent a parking spot, one I've see is one of the two outside spots at one of these Bayonne Boxes) - a successful campaign to replace them would entail an understanding of local market forces. Parking - the examples shown are good, but the overwhelming contextual design hurdle is the 2-car garage along with 2 outdoor spots. This dictates the siting, lack of landscaping, disruption of the residential streetwall etc. There may need to be a parallel plan to deal with added parking needs. Visuals - any designers, graphic artists, or even reasonably experienced users of SketchUp out there? Some streetscape renderings of what things would look like under a revised zoning ordinance may get more people on board.
Posted on: 2016/11/18 19:58
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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As a first step, we probably need to gather all like minded residents together so we can properly organize and discuss exactly what the problems are and how they can be fixed. I personally believe it's an issue of zoning. Zoning is always a hot topic, and it may be politically better to leave it alone, even if there is a major problem resulting from it, than to try and fix it. This is because there are a vocal number of misguided residents (like Yvonne and the ones MDM described) that will try to derail any efforts for change, even if the change proposed is positive and would lead to what we all want: a visually attractive and vibrant community.
We can draft an email to Councilman Yun letting him know this is an issue many are passionate about. We can then setup an in person meeting with him and the city planning department. We can also write a Letter to the Editor of the Jersey Journal. I'm thinking we may also need a website to explain out positions once we figure them out internally. Lastly, I'm probably the worst to lead an effort like this. I'll show up at meetings, write letters, and let my voice be heard, but hoping someone setup those meetings and take this to the finish line. We need someone that is knowledgeable of the problems with the R1 zoning and have real world experience of how they can be remedied.
Posted on: 2016/11/18 17:49
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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That was the case when I went to a meeting about the future of Central Ave (Heights). Lots of talk about organic coffee shops and art shows... Not a whole lot on how to bring enough people in to support that stuff or the fact that public transport kind of stinks up here (for those not near the PATH or the HBLR).
Posted on: 2016/11/18 15:07
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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2007/8/1 19:34 Last Login : 2022/4/27 19:59 From journal square
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I dont live in the heights, but I am 100% in agreement and behind you on this. These are the thorn in the side of the cities aesthetics and even if they never build another, there are already too many here.
Posted on: 2016/11/18 13:45
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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Have you guys been following the Master Plan rewriting story? That's the place to address this. I went to the session at City Hall and it was all touchy feely PC nonsense about how we can solve all the social ills of the city with zoning. We need people involved who want to get right to the point and not bog down in the weeds.
Other cities have zonings that might as well be called "Historic Lite", an aesthetic code rather than a preservation code. We might benefit from that. But as has been discussed in other threads, all it might take is getting rid of R-1. Notice no one builds them in Downtown or Hoboken any more. There's definitely a price point filter, that people willing to pay over a certain amount won't pay that for a Bayonne box. But perhaps there's something we can do to put a thumb on the scale.
Posted on: 2016/11/18 4:20
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Re: Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Newbie
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2015/3/27 14:48 Last Login : 2017/6/16 10:24 From Jersey City
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I would be interested in joining you. I can also have a few other like minded people join us. PM me and we can set something up
Posted on: 2016/11/17 23:14
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Battle against the "Bayonne Box" in The Heights
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Home away from home
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 A call to action - we really need to contact Councilman Yun, Mayor Fulop, and any other decision makers on the proliferation of the ugly Bayonne Boxes taking over the heights. What's needed is a zoning change. Something that would allow more flexibility in design. Three or four units, ditch the pitched roof, encouragement of bay windows and discouragement of protruding balconies, and better design of the garage space. What else?   
Posted on: 2016/11/17 21:14
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