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Racing in Liberty State Park
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Home away from home
 
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Admin, please relocate this notice accordingly:
Tonight as I was completing my run in Liberty State Park, I witnessed 2 cars racing down each other along freedom way around 6:30 PM at high speed. I first saw then close to the nature center then, as I was approaching the south parking lot, they passed me again heading south. The first car nearly crashed into a vehicle stopped at the intersection of freedom way and morris pesin drive. Considering the road configuration there, the cyclists and everyone, it could have turned very badly. Had I known they were going to turn back, I would have recorded the event. In any case, I wonder who should be kept informed of this. This is an accident in waiting!!
Posted on: 2016/4/28 2:16
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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Shipping company to withdraw bid for commercial buoy near Liberty State Park, Ellis Island By JERSEY CITY -- After a parade of elected officials and park advocates denounced a plan that would allow barges to moor near Liberty State Park, officials said the New York-based shipping company has decided to find a new site for its commercial buoy. Mayor Steve Fulop announced this morning that after speaking with the New York State Marine Highway Transportation, the company will find a "more suitable location." An application with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) requested that a buoy be installed roughly 200 feet away from Ellis island that could dock up to five barges at once, with each barge measuring 195 feet by 35 feet. In a statement released by Fulop's office, Rob Goldman -- a partner with the applicant -- said the company wants be "good neighbors." Read more: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... cation_for_commercia.html
Posted on: 2016/4/26 17:43
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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that shit is DONE with! Thanks everybody
Posted on: 2016/4/26 17:19
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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By Caitlin Mota | The Jersey Journal
on April 24, 2016 at 12:49 PM, updated April 24, 2016 at 12:55 PM JERSEY CITY -- Tomorrow is the deadline for public comment on a proposed plan that would allow a New York-based company to install mooring for commercial barges in the Hudson River near Liberty State Park. More
Posted on: 2016/4/24 20:34
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Posted on: 2016/4/21 20:14
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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I marked up a harbor chart to show the designated anchorage areas clearly. The green circle in the middle is the size of the space being requested near LSP. It would be fascinating to find a chart showing spaces similarly "reserved". Also note that the space being requested is not actually in an already designated anchorage zone.
Posted on: 2016/4/21 16:31
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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+1 on Falcon's comments from the sailors' perspective.
That tug crash was just an incredible Captain error, IMO. There were THREE tugs connected to that barge raft, giving them considerable steerage and several thousand horsepower, and they managed to hit a moored barge while presumably pushing against a foul current and making no more than 5 knots over the bottom?! Crazy stupid mistake.
Posted on: 2016/4/21 12:43
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Moderator
 
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2004/1/6 7:40 Last Login : 2021/9/18 2:12 From Beautiful Downtown Jersey City
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I sail in the NY harbor 4 times a week for the past 20 years, I work for http://sailnyc.net as a charter captain and worked for Manhattan Sailing School and other schools as a sailing instructor. In my opinion the area just north of Ellis Island is a ridiculous location to park barges. There are many other locations in the harbor where this is appropriate and it is a joke that this location would be considered. Here are the reasons that I wrote to the officials today:
Its proximity to the Ellis Island cove that I personally use as the ONLY place in the harbor to escape the dangers of commercial traffic and the strong currents. I participate in sailboat races and this will obstruct the best location for our starting and finish line. This location is the on route used by most when sailing toward the statue. Avoiding parked barges at this location will force sailboats to sail primarily in the shipping lanes and obstruct larger vessels. This location will cause a hazard to navigation and add significantly to traffic and congestion in the harbor. Plainly speaking the barges are in the way at this location and the Brooklyn Flats are out of the way. In my opinion this applicant is just plain greedy in trying to secure all the free parking spots they can acquire regardless of the impact to others. Last month a tugboat crashed into a parked barge killing 4: http://www.fox5ny.com/news/113048695-story
Posted on: 2016/4/21 4:52
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Fair nuff. At first glance it looked like the typical combination of misinterpreted info and overreaction we see here often. But there seems to be some true nonsense at play.
Posted on: 2016/4/21 4:44
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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Jeez - don't shoot the messenger. I explained that I received an email from FOLSP (in bold) and then, verbatim, posted the email. It was up to a reader to decide how to proceed. I merely posted it as a point of interest. No hysteria from me. I didn't write the original email.
Quote:
Posted on: 2016/4/21 3:31
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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N.Y. shipper applies to install mooring for barges near Liberty State Park, Ellis IslandBy JERSEY CITY -- A New York-based company has requested to install a commercial buoy in the Hudson River near Liberty State Park to moor barges the size of half a football field -- a move that critics say would be an eyesore for park-goers and tourists. The New York State Marine Highway Transportation Company has put an application in with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) to place four mooring points in New York waterways, with one of them roughly 100 feet off the coast of Liberty State Park and 200 feet from Ellis Island. The application requests that a single 58-inch-diameter steel mooring buoy be installed with an anchor weighing 10,000 pounds. The buoy would dock five barges, each measuring 195 feet by 35 feet. Read more: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... oy_near_ellis_island.html
Posted on: 2016/4/21 3:14
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Quote:
Thank you for telling us the true point of this thread, because the OP didn't do it.
Posted on: 2016/4/21 1:56
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Quote:
I'm not trying to paint a complete picture. I don't know the motivations of the applicant. I don't know what reasons Fulop et al might oppose this. This thread is the first I've heard of this proposal. What my post intended to do was counter a hysterical rant in the OP with a simple counterpoint based only on math.
Posted on: 2016/4/21 1:55
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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jc_dweller and Bike_Lane,
I think you've missed the point on this thread. The objection isn't against using barges to transport "whatever". Clearly, a barge takes many tons off the roads and it's also a VERY energy-efficient way to move a LOT of whatever at a far lower cost with just one diesel tug and sometimes many barges rafted together. The objection to the proposal is WHERE the mooring buoys will be placed. Scenery aside, it's at the very edge of a navigable channel up the Hudson River, right next to an active ferry dock. Can't think of a worse place to put it/them. I'm a lifelong boater and had a sailboat in NY Harbor for 20 years and I've sailed just about every inch of it where there was at least 5' of water depth. The buoys well south of Liberty Island are rarely all occupied. And seeing as how there is a tidal flat just south of Liberty Island (water depth very little, sometimes slightly exposed at very-low tides) that location just south of the flats is out of the way for any boats in transit to/from Staten Island or The Narrows.
Posted on: 2016/4/20 20:17
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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Quote:
+1
Posted on: 2016/4/20 18:44
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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NY Harbor is a working harbor. LSP is beautiful - and the one place in Jersey City I enjoy riding my bicycle - but it's a microcosm of a restored natural landscape within a much larger, historically industrial landscape. Personally, I worry more about the ramifications of limiting opportunities for efficient, environmentally friendly(er) uses for the harbor such as shipping as an alternative to truck traffic.
I feel the opposition is misplaced, and after Mayor Fulop's handling of the reval (and the brazen pandering that represented) am especially leery of how the needs of the larger city are going to fare.
Posted on: 2016/4/20 17:53
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Quote:
That's my impression too. A huge portion of the harbor is designated as anchorage, I'd love to hear the reasoning for this particular location, there didn't seem to be one in the application.
Posted on: 2016/4/20 16:16
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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I meant that you are the antithesis of hysterical.
And that you are well informed.
Posted on: 2016/4/20 15:01
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I highly doubt you are giving us a completely accurate picture, considering Fulop, various state senators, assemblymen, and council people all have sent strongly worded letters in opposition to this proposal.
Posted on: 2016/4/20 14:43
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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Thanks Jersey City Frankie. I must say you seem the antithesis of hysterical and well informed.
Posted on: 2016/4/20 14:01
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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More barge thoughts and observations: Cargo on barges can be nearly anything, you see all kinds of things on barges as tugs move them across the harbor and up and down the river as quickly as possible. Time is money and there is no time to leave a barge sitting around unless it is loading or unloading. But off to the lower third of the upper harbor one sees dozens of moored barges, mostly located on either side of the Staten island Ferry route well South of the Statue of Liberty and North of the Verranzano bridge. These barges are all fuel oil barges. You can tell since they are required to fly a red flag to denote their cargo. These are the barges that would be located off Liberty State park. My understanding is that these barges movements (or lack of movement) is driven by the oil industry and the fluctuating price of the commodity. They sit and wait for marketplace forces to cause them to move on to discharge the cargo somewhere else. As I said in another post, the available mooring buoys are never all in use at the same time. This leads me to speculate that there is no need for the new mooring buoy location, unless its a competitor trying to gain more resources in the harbor. And here I will editorialize and say that the proposed location is a part of the harbor that should NOT be available to private concerns for a commercial venture. Not this close to a State Park nor so close to Liberty and Ellis Islands.
Posted on: 2016/4/20 12:20
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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Some NYC Harbor barge facts for the landlubbers: Barges don't have their own anchors like ships do, tugboats move them from place to place and when they need to keep them out of the way for a while they attache them to a mooring buoy. These buoys are large floats that are chained to their own giant anchor on the riverbottom, barges hitch to them and then they stay put in this location but they will swing in a circle around the mooring buoy like a dog on a leash. In the PDF of the proposal the Army Core is saying the barges will be 35' wide and 195' long and as many as six barges tied together in a bundle all using the same mooring buoy. This would represent a floating object 105' wide and 390' long and likely 10' ( no, not 2' high as a landlubber has suggested). Further the Army Core is saying that this collection of barges will rotate around the buoy on a 582' circle represented by the buoy's chain. There are a LOT of these mooring buoys out in the Upper Harbor and there are always a lot of barges moored to them. I spend a decent amount of time sailing all over the harbor and I have NEVER seen all the existing buoys in use, they are never at maximum capacity. Also I must note (and I could be proven wrong here but I am pretty sure I am not) that none of the existing mooring buoys are as close to land as this one will be, certainly NONE of the existing buoys is located directly off a public park.
Posted on: 2016/4/20 11:53
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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Quote:
That would be really bad! Why on earth there.
Posted on: 2016/4/20 11:36
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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That's about the shittiest place they could put it. Why there?? Why not closer to the actual shipping terminals? This location would block the views from a large park, not to mention the regular sailing races that occur there and viewed from the floating platform.
Posted on: 2016/4/20 4:00
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2016/4/20 3:13
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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Lord people, how about a little less hysteria? At least know what you're talking about, or post the original material so people who do can judge.
There's not a possibility that anything can be moored between Ellis I and shore. It's a security zone, with a bridge in the middle of it! What they probably mean is in the 2 marked anchorage zones to the east of Ellis. EDIT: saw their map, odd that the spot indicated isn't even in the marked anchorage.  Why there is a question, when there seems plenty of barge anchorage further out in the harbor. I fish around them all the time, there's often a dozen or more moored in clumps. There's a WHOLE LOT of these designated anchorages in the harbor, I don't see the need for this. See for yourself, the anchorage area are marked out in red. http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/12334.shtml
Posted on: 2016/4/20 3:00
Edited by brewster on 2016/4/20 3:18:13
Edited by brewster on 2016/4/20 3:21:07 |
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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Bike Lane has a point.
Posted on: 2016/4/20 2:20
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Re: Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Would you prefer the construction material ("and possibly garbage barges") be loaded onto trucks and driven over the bridges and through our communities instead?
One barge can carry the equivalent of 58 trucks worth of heavy stuff. If five barges were temporarily moored in the flats, that's almost 300 trucks we don't need to see on the road. A barge that sits just a few feet above the water line wouldn't obstruct any views of Ellis Island or the statue and I feel better about all that cargo sitting out in the harbor instead of beating the tar out of our roads and bridges. Where's the petition I can sign to support this proposal?
Posted on: 2016/4/20 2:12
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Commercial Barges to be Placed Near LSP/Ellis Island - Petition
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Home away from home
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(I received this email tonight from Friends of Liberty State Park - please review and sign the petition if you wish to support their position against the barges):
Dear Liberty State Park supporters, NO Commercial Barges by LSP & Ellis Island. Please email Army Corps. There's a new MAJOR THREAT to the public's use and enjoyment of LSP. A company has applied to the US Army Corps of Engineers (ACE) to put a commercial buoy in "Ellis Island Flats" for up to 5 large commercial barges at a time, including construction and possibly garbage barges, to be moored in between LSP's historic Terminal area and Ellis Island, while they wait to be tugged out to sea. The ACE is seeking Public Comment which they must receive by Monday April 25! The Friends and NY/NJ Baykeeper's letters, ACE Public Notice and Map are here: (http://www.folsp.org/preservation/opposing_commercial_buoy.html) Please email the Army Corps of Engineers at this email address (cenan.publicnotice@usace.army.mil) and in the Subject line please say, Opposition to/public hearing for NAN-2016-00174-EPI Please take the time to urge ACE to reject this application for "Ellis Island Flats" and also to call for public hearings and an extended public comment period so people can express their opposition to this outrageous and clueless application. These commercial barges moored right by LSP and Ellis Island will immensely mar the priceless views from much of LSP toward NYC, and to Ellis Island, the Terminal, etc. (The Statue Cruises ferries would also be forced to have a longer trip). Please oppose the application of this greedy, arrogant and clueless company. Jersey City Mayor Fulop, Asm Mukherji, Sen. Stack, Freeholder O'Dea , and JC Councilpeople Lavarro and Osborne have already sent strong letters and we're reaching out to Senators Menendez and Cory Booker.
Posted on: 2016/4/20 0:45
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