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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Not too shy to talk
 
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Hi Folks:
I see that we were mentioned in this thread so I thought I'd chime in, for whatever it's worth. Two Boots is a "formula business" under the mayor's proposal and could not have opened in its present location. Since we got in three years ago, this proposed ordinance does not affect us. It also doesn't affect me because I'm not a landlord. So I have "no dog in this fight." Having said all of this, I couldn't be more opposed to the mayor's proposal. 1. This is a solution in search of a problem. As someone mentioned below, we don't have a chain store problem. Indeed, unless you want to drive to the mall, we have a dearth of shopping options downtown. Look at all the empty storefronts. Where is a great furniture store? Where are the men's clothing stores? Where are the shoe stores? We don't see independents opening them up. Why? Because the capital required is huge, and, unlike coffee bars and restaurants, it's just not that sexy. But we need these types of stores. Barring chains will only exacerbate the problem. 2. This was ENTIRELY the mayor's idea. I have it on unassailable authority, that he proposed it and rammed it through Planning, over their objection. To my knowledge, none of his constituents were asking for this. 3. Independents CAN thrive next to chains. Even in Manhattan, you have Joe The Art of Coffee and Think Coffee thriving next to Starbucks. You have "The Donut Plant" thriving next to Dunkin' Donuts. Chain restaurants don't even venture outside of Times Square. Then, there are thousands of independent clothing boutiques. This is even more true in Brooklyn. Neither Brooklyn nor Manhattan had to enact such a law as the mayor proposes. Take a look at Westfield New Jersey, which won an award for its downtown. A mix of independents and chains co-exist. 4. It's completely unfair to landlords (of which I am not one). Imagine, one day your mayor wakes up and says "here's a great way for me to grab headlines" and lops off 20% of the value of your business. It's outrageous. 5. In spite of the way the mayor framed it in the WSJ article, the ordinance does NOT allow for 30% of the businesses to be chains. It says that each commercial landlord can only rent 30% of his space to a chain. This is an effective ban on chains downtown since most downtown landlords don't have commercial spaces big enough to be subdivided. 6. The reason chain stores do well in some places is because people actually want them. Who is the mayor to decide that we can't conveniently access (without going to a mall) certain stores that we want? If downtown residents don't want them, they'll fail. That's democracy in action. 7. Use incentives. If you want independents, as you guys below suggested, provide better help at the city level to new businesses. Cut the ridiculous red tape, delays and usurious fees. Perhaps, as someone mentioned, create abatements for this purpose. This is the way to do it. But, unfortunately, it wouldn't generate headlines. 8. We will continue to patronize independents. The fact is, that many of us prefer to shop at independents. I know that I do. So long as they provide a great product, they will thrive in JC. People need to speak out on this. It's bad policy and it's certainly undemocratic, when a politician can ram bad policy through, dressed up as fighting for the little guy, just to grab headlines. Thanks for listening!
Posted on: 2015/4/8 14:48
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
 
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Quote:
Jesus Christ. These people still exist? I dont buy it, they have to be trolling.
Posted on: 2015/4/8 14:16
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Well miracles do happen. Just look at what Kris Kringle accomplished in Miracle on 34th Street. He directed Macy shoppers to Gimbles if a better price or toy could be had. It was a marketing success for all involved. I can see it now?..?The Miracle on Grove Street? ?the role of Kris Kringle will be played by none other than Mayor Fulop. .
Posted on: 2015/4/7 23:17
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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It's a resume builder for Fulop. Westfield has plenty of chain stores downtown and is still vibrant. JC can barely support decent stores at the Newport Mall as it is.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 22:45
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Sorry, but I highly doubt an Applebee's (or whatever chain restaurant) will go for changing their menu when chains pride themselves on consistency. They want customers to know if they get the "flaming chipotle onion belly bomber" or the "chocolate lava torpedo cake" in the middle of Minnesota, they can get it in JC as well. They also prepare their food consistently across locations so even just refrigerating a whoopie pie from Cocoa would probably be an employee and process change they would be unwilling to take on.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 22:42
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Not too shy to talk
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I think this is the single most brilliant thing I have ever read on this entire forum. Someone please who has the time, wave this like a flag in front of City Hall.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 22:33
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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The thing that we're not really talking about, either, is the signalling effect inherent in this sort of thing making the news cycle. It's very possible that the mayor's office backs off entirely on this sort of thing, but it does send a message to potential residents and businesses that it's an area that wants to maintain a sense of community and one that will support quality local businesses.
Given how the various news outlets have picked it up, it might have an effect without any legal or regulatory change whatsoever.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 22:00
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Steak at Applebee?s and then order a Raspberry Lemon Whoopie Pie from Cocoa Bakery or a Chocolate Almost Croissant from Choc O Pain, or a bowl of Coffee Cookies from Torico Ice Cream right off of Applebee?s menu. A win win for all. Customer gets a nice local treat, smaller local business gets income and their name out there for future business, and the chain gets kudos for helping the community. So smart, so simple - what a business friendly initiative that could be positively highlighted with great PR potential instead of these proposed heavy-handed "regulations."
Posted on: 2015/4/7 21:11
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
Joined:
2012/10/12 12:58 Last Login : 2016/5/8 0:52 From Jersey City
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[quote]
caj11 wrote: Are you really sure about that? Is every non-chain restaurant owned by people who physically live in Jersey City and are all their employees living in Jersey City? Furthermore, do they spend all their profit in Jersey City or do they take it over to the Garden State Plaza in Elizabeth and spend it at places that are also chains? Or do they go into Manhattan to spend it at stores, theaters and other places that are not in Jersey City either? [quote] I am 100% certain of that as I define NYC and Elizabeth as "fairly local," certainly more local than Tampa, Fl. When the locally earned profits are spent on chains in other nearby towns, at least a greater share of the profit is being kept in the area before it ultimately makes its way out of the area. [quote] The whole concept of "spending your money locally" is just ludicrous when we live in a very fluid economy in a large metropolitan area with lots of places to spend your money both inside and outside of Jersey City. Money leaves Jersey City all the time and money comes right back in as well. I don't think we have a problem of "capital flight" like they had in post-World War I Germany. Yes, Outback Steakhouse is a chain with headquarters in Florida but it's owned by a larger publicly traded company with stockholders all over the country (maybe even some in Jersey City). [quote] This has nothing to do with "capital flight" but you should really take a trip to the midwest or even south jersey or upstate ny and check out what towns look like when the small business base is eliminated. [quote] I'd also love to know what Fulop will define as a "chain" because Ibby's Falafel, with a second location in Freehold could be considered a chain without getting more specific. Two Boots claims it is a "local " restaurant as well yet I see numerous locations listed on their website, all over the country (I wonder how both of these places will react to this proposal). [quote] Check out the article again, the definition is in there.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 21:02
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Then the initiative is already a success.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 20:38
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Quote:
fair point
Posted on: 2015/4/7 20:32
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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I always enjoy reading that persons ( below) JJ comments. Here is something to add onto the one about eating treats in a local place after a meal at Applebee?s. Why not do something like force? err I mean ask the chain restaurant to include a specialty dessert item on their menu from local stores? Say any smaller business within three blocks of the chain would put an item on the chains dessert menu. *
Steak at Applebee?s and then order a Raspberry Lemon Whoopie Pie from Cocoa Bakery or a Chocolate Almost Croissant from Choc O Pain, or a bowl of Coffee Cookies from Torico Ice Cream right off of Applebee?s menu. A win win for all. Customer gets a nice local treat, smaller local business gets income and their name out there for future business, and the chain gets kudos for helping the community. (*storage/delivery of the desserts would need to be worked out of course) Quote: Foolish...just give the people of JC what they really want. (who cares about people ?in the region? aka NYC) I guarantee that if you opened an Applebee?s or Houlihan's in Downtown it would be packed all hours of the day. It would also be around for years to come. Not like the DT restaurants / stores that are opening and closing within two years. (when their lease runs out) They would also be a plus because they would generate pedestrian traffic which would benefit all DT businesses. Duh. Eat drink at Applebee?s top it off with a treat from a local ice cream shop or bakery. Quote: Let?s see how many people would venture into DTJC for a thimble sized bowl of braised-oxtail ramen soup with long beans and mustard greens from an Asian fusion noodle bar/restaurant. Versus a TGI Friday?s JACK DANIEL'S? RIB-EYE 10 ounce tender cut with generous marbling and succulent flavor.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 20:27
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Drafts aren't law - you start with "more" than you really want and relax it at the bargaining table.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 20:24
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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When it's written in the law, you can't really bend it. Like "oh officer my DUI was CLOSE to what you wanted..."
Posted on: 2015/4/7 20:10
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Under the new rules, only 30% of commercial space downtown could be rented to a business that has 10 other properties within 300 miles of Jersey City, according to a proposed draft. I don't think the goal is 30%, it's just a lot easier to get attention with a number like that.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 20:04
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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This story made the AM 1010WINS news cycle. If I heard correctly, the reporter mentioned that the proposed rules are similar to those in San Francisco and Nantucket.
I wholeheartedly agree with JCMan8: Quote: I don't think it's the government's role to tell landlords what kind of businesses they can rent to, or to tell certain businesses they are not welcome in Jersey City. Let the people decide. I would be ok if this was some kind of question on a voting ballot. Wouldn't this potentially open us up to some costly litigation that the city most certainly cannot afford? Let the free market do its job.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 19:41
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Exactly. Or, tie the big-ass tax abatements that building owners want directly to a certain amount of retail space being dedicated to small local businesses. I know that people here tend to hate abatements, but the city proposing "you get this abatement if your ground floor is at least 75% retail and that retail is at least 50% non-chain", well, then that's a win-win. Incentivization always beats regulation.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 19:40
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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You can't blame a building owner from wanting a more stable rent (chain stores), so I think the government should consider subsidizing rent for non- chain stores. This will encourage them and level the playing field without being all big-brother about it.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 19:28
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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THANK YOU! You nailed it. I don't want the government deciding what kind of dining and shopping is good for me and what isn't. According to a prior posting, consumer choices don't always drive what will restaurants and stores will be in this city, it's the dynamics of rents and scale (I assume he meant the landlords). I can't say I like the large scale landlords deciding what kind of dining and shopping should be in this city either, but I'll take them over the government deciding any day.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 19:23
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Yes, both based on common sense and Fulop's definition. The article says the following: "Jersey City is defining a chain business as one that is contractually obligated to maintain a facade, menu items, merchandise or color scheme, among other qualifications." I don't think it's the government's role to tell landlords what kind of businesses they can rent to, or to tell certain businesses they are not welcome in Jersey City. Let the people decide. I would be ok if this was some kind of question on a voting ballot. But yes, Two Boots certainly is a chain.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 19:14
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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That's my point. The objection isn't chains. They're objecting to something else (what I'm not sure) but if Apple or any number of other "trendy" chains wanted to come they'd make an exception, and that's not fair.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 19:11
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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According to the proposal, Two Boots is a chain. Ibby's would not count since they only have 2. The proposal requires that you have 10 franchises for a chain.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 19:10
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Ask Aaron Morrill, owner of the Jersey City location. He doesn't seem to think so.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 19:10
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Two Boots is a chain. Right?
Posted on: 2015/4/7 18:56
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Does this mean my dream of Arby's coming back is hopeless?
Posted on: 2015/4/7 18:43
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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2012/1/11 18:21 Last Login : 2019/12/26 15:30 From GV Bayside Park
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DTJC is not New York and it will never be, So please don't compare the two.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 18:40
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Posted on: 2015/4/7 18:38
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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JJ comments:
Quote: Foolish...just give the people of JC what they really want. (who cares about people ?in the region? aka NYC) I guarantee that if you opened an Applebee?s or Houlihan's in Downtown it would be packed all hours of the day. It would also be around for years to come. Not like the DT restaurants / stores that are opening and closing within two years. (when their lease runs out) They would also be a plus because they would generate pedestrian traffic which would benefit all DT businesses. Duh. Eat drink at Applebee?s top it off with a treat from a local ice cream shop or bakery. Quote: Let?s see how many people would venture into DTJC for a thimble sized bowl of braised-oxtail ramen soup with long beans and mustard greens from an Asian fusion noodle bar/restaurant. Versus a TGI Friday?s JACK DANIEL'S? RIB-EYE 10 ounce tender cut with generous marbling and succulent flavor.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 18:26
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
Joined:
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If every store is The Gap or Starbucks there is no competition.
Posted on: 2015/4/7 18:22
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2015/4/7 18:21
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