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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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donnajc65 wrote:
First, the city didn't market the 16 acre site. By their own admission, they didn't send out a RFP and they didn't place adds in the JJ or Star Ledger. No one knew the land was in play so to speak. So, this story that the land was for sale for decades is just plan BS!! Second, the hospital is a critical part of the city. They have been for over 100 years. If they had to compete for city land, so should LSC. The fact that LSC received FREE Land and the hospital had to compete for land to expand their footprint, is difficult to comprehend. City accommodate their hospitals. They understand the importance of good affordable health care in their cities. and make no mistake about it, for every dollar the medical center gave to the city to plug a hole in the budget, it was a dollar less toward a new emergency room or other needs of the hospital. The mayor talks about about JC being a world class city, you can't have a world class city without world class medical care! And on that account the mayor struck out!!

Now I can hear the rebuttal about schools. Well, when Steven had the opportunity to support a successful preschool at the Golden Door charter school site, he chose to turn his back on them too. The the school argument doesn't cut it.

Nothing you wrote refutes anything I wrote. In fact, it is just a lot of rambling...

First, the city doesn't advertise land. When developers come in to buy up land or take over buildings they usually present an idea for a location and ask to buy it. Debate ensues after about the cost of the land, possible abatements, alternative sites, the size of the building, etc. That you believe this process starts with the city advertising in the Jersey Journal shows how little you understand about the process.

Secondly, the hospital didn't want this land. They want land in another, more high priced area. You are comparing apples to andirons. The fact that you keep going back to this ridiculously weak argument demonstrates how poor your argument is.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 21:46
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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First, the city didn't market the 16 acre site. By their own admission, they didn't send out a RFP and they didn't place adds in the JJ or Star Ledger. No one knew the land was in play so to speak. So, this story that the land was for sale for decades is just plan BS!! Second, the hospital is a critical part of the city. They have been for over 100 years. If they had to compete for city land, so should LSC. The fact that LSC received FREE Land and the hospital had to compete for land to expand their footprint, is difficult to comprehend. City accommodate their hospitals. They understand the importance of good affordable health care in their cities. and make no mistake about it, for every dollar the medical center gave to the city to plug a hole in the budget, it was a dollar less toward a new emergency room or other needs of the hospital. The mayor talks about about JC being a world class city, you can't have a world class city without world class medical care! And on that account the mayor struck out!!

Now I can hear the rebuttal about schools. Well, when Steven had the opportunity to support a successful preschool at the Golden Door charter school site, he chose to turn his back on them too. The the school argument doesn't cut it.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 21:04
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Monroe wrote:
I guess one could say that until the day the crews show up it's possible this won't be done.

Since the state and Fulop want it, the only opposition will be from the Van Vorst Park residents.

Guess who's going to win out-even Pesin seems ok with it with a few qualifications.

Don't be so naïve, this has been a done deal for a while. Just how were people going to get to Fulop's casino from downtown, Grand to Pacific to Johnston?

I’m not being naïve. I’m just a “shovel in the ground” kind of person. A driving bridge was talked about for quite some time and it does finally seem to be happening, but...


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Monroe wrote:
Link or something to cite this?

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Pebble wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

The land has been up for sale. It has been up for sale for a freaking decade. Nobody, including the hospital, has wanted it.

I know people in the development office and the Lafayette region is something we have discussed extensively for some obvious and other not so obvious reasons. You can choose to not believe me, if you like. I don’t have the ins-and-outs on all projects, I just know that even going back to the corrupt Healey, Lafayette was shopped to everyone and their mother and this includes that plot of land. If you run into me at NuBar, I’ll be happy to talk about it further.

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caj11 wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

The land has been up for sale. It has been up for sale for a freaking decade. Nobody, including the hospital, has wanted it.


I'll buy it then. I'll offer $100, which is $100 more than the city will get under the LSC deal.

Awesome. Call up the city and talk to them. Give them your proposed development plan and tell them how much you want to buy the land for.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 16:35
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Pebble wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

The land has been up for sale. It has been up for sale for a freaking decade. Nobody, including the hospital, has wanted it.


I'll buy it then. I'll offer $100, which is $100 more than the city will get under the LSC deal.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 16:17
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Link or something to cite this?

Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

The land has been up for sale. It has been up for sale for a freaking decade. Nobody, including the hospital, has wanted it.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 16:15
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Pebble wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

The land has been up for sale. It has been up for sale for a freaking decade. Nobody, including the hospital, has wanted it.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 16:14
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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I guess one could say that until the day the crews show up it's possible this won't be done.

Since the state and Fulop want it, the only opposition will be from the Van Vorst Park residents.

Guess who's going to win out-even Pesin seems ok with it with a few qualifications.

Don't be so naïve, this has been a done deal for a while. Just how were people going to get to Fulop's casino from downtown, Grand to Pacific to Johnston?

Posted on: 2015/1/28 16:13
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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caj11 wrote:
If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

The land has been up for sale. It has been up for sale for a freaking decade. Nobody, including the hospital, has wanted it.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 16:07
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Monroe wrote:
Pebble, did the city send out a request for proposals for that land, or was it a secret deal with no public announcement?

And yes, while it's not been formalized Fulop has it on his agenda to begin the bridge this year-they were doing soil and core samples at the new bridge location last summer.

And 'two very different parts of the city'? They're literally minutes away.

I’ll put it this way, every spot of land that is available from the lot we are talking about and up through Lafayette is offered to every developer. Since the towers began taking shape downtown, every developer is pushed to look near the Liberty State Park lightrail stop. They are offered cheap rates, grand abatements, you name it.

I appreciate the article on the bridge. I recalled that last summer. But nothing has occurred yet. They’ve not started construction. As such, it still really is just talk.

Lastly, yes, they are definitely “two different parts of the city.” Look at the home values near this plot of land versus the home values near the hospital. You’re being deliberately obtuse if you believe the hospital and this plot of land are of equal value.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 16:05
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Pebble wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
[quote]
Pebble wrote:
[quote]
donnajc65 wrote:
So Josh, why sell land to the medical center for 24 million dollars and give LSC land for free. The hospital is one of the largest employers in the city and perhaps the largest employer of city residents. They are the one institution in the city that we can't do without! They are bursting at the seems and the city knows that. And yet, this administration has made it a point to put a gun to their heads about buying the city land for 24 million or else. That is what they have done. Free land-16 acres- for LSC and meg-a-dollars- from the hospital-24 million for 2.5 acres. I simply doesn't make sense. All I can think, is the developers on the LSC board cut a deal with the mayor. The hospital deserves better.

I’m going to play devil’s advocate a little here simply because this is an absurdly simplistic approach, one that Yvonne is also trumpeting.

The hospital didn’t ask for the same land that LSC is asking for. If they had, maybe the city gives that land to them for free. Instead, the hospital is asking for highly valuable land in a highly desirable area. Claiming that these transactions are equal is the work of simple minds.


2. If the land was in such high demand, where are the other bidders for this specific plot? Show me the list of those climbing all over themselves to grab at this chunk of land.

Your arguments are remedial. The world isn’t black and white and you can’t just demand people or organizations pay for something becauseyou believe it is valuable or because someone else paid for something else. Additionally, getting land for free doesn’t mean that there are no taxes on the land.

As of now, we have just the LSC stepping forward and saying that they want this parcel of land and they have a specific purpose, one that helps the city. A school at that location would drive business. Teachers need to eat, thus restaurants would follow. From there, the Lafayette area could possibly grow.

I know for a fact that this parcel of land has been shopped heavily for the past decade with nary a single interested party. Claiming that it somehow has value now belies all evidence to the contrary.

[quote]

If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 16:01
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Posted on: 2015/1/28 15:23
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Pebble, did the city send out a request for proposals for that land, or was it a secret deal with no public announcement?

And yes, while it's not been formalized Fulop has it on his agenda to begin the bridge this year-they were doing soil and core samples at the new bridge location last summer.

And 'two very different parts of the city'? They're literally minutes away.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 15:17
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

donnajc65 wrote:
So Josh, why sell land to the medical center for 24 million dollars and give LSC land for free. The hospital is one of the largest employers in the city and perhaps the largest employer of city residents. They are the one institution in the city that we can't do without! They are bursting at the seems and the city knows that. And yet, this administration has made it a point to put a gun to their heads about buying the city land for 24 million or else. That is what they have done. Free land-16 acres- for LSC and meg-a-dollars- from the hospital-24 million for 2.5 acres. I simply doesn't make sense. All I can think, is the developers on the LSC board cut a deal with the mayor. The hospital deserves better.

I’m going to play devil’s advocate a little here simply because this is an absurdly simplistic approach, one that Yvonne is also trumpeting.

The hospital didn’t ask for the same land that LSC is asking for. If they had, maybe the city gives that land to them for free. Instead, the hospital is asking for highly valuable land in a highly desirable area. Claiming that these transactions are equal is the work of simple minds.


Are you saying land near Liberty State Park is not valuable? You have the views of the park. A parcel of land was sold recently (not an acre) for $2 million in Bergen Lafayette. Fulop downplayed the value of the 16 acre land. His obligation is to residents and taxpayers, not to the science center. Sell the land and pay down some of the city's debt. Reducing the debt will reduce the budget.


1. Doing something for LSC isn’t mutually exclusive to serving the residents and taxpayers (which includes LSC).

2. If the land was in such high demand, where are the other bidders for this specific plot? Show me the list of those climbing all over themselves to grab at this chunk of land.

Your arguments are remedial. The world isn’t black and white and you can’t just demand people or organizations pay for something becauseyou believe it is valuable or because someone else paid for something else. Additionally, getting land for free doesn’t mean that there are no taxes on the land.

As of now, we have just the LSC stepping forward and saying that they want this parcel of land and they have a specific purpose, one that helps the city. A school at that location would drive business. Teachers need to eat, thus restaurants would follow. From there, the Lafayette area could possibly grow.

I know for a fact that this parcel of land has been shopped heavily for the past decade with nary a single interested party. Claiming that it somehow has value now belies all evidence to the contrary.

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Monroe wrote:
Isn't Fulop putting a car bridge alongside the 'stinky bridge', which will put the LSS expansion about a 15 second drive away from the hospital expansion? I'd say the land equivalent is pretty close between the two.

Is the bridge getting built? I haven’t seen plans for it yet. All that has occurred is talk about a bridge.

Second, show me where the hospital wanted to buy that land. Unless they asked for that land specifically for expansion and were turned away so that LSC could have it free, then we can talk about equivalence.

Ultimately, we are still talking about two different plots of land in two different areas of the city with different access points. The valuation is not the same.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 15:10
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Isn't Fulop putting a car bridge alongside the 'stinky bridge', which will put the LSS expansion about a 15 second drive away from the hospital expansion? I'd say the land equivalent is pretty close between the two.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 14:53
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Pebble wrote:
Quote:

donnajc65 wrote:
So Josh, why sell land to the medical center for 24 million dollars and give LSC land for free. The hospital is one of the largest employers in the city and perhaps the largest employer of city residents. They are the one institution in the city that we can't do without! They are bursting at the seems and the city knows that. And yet, this administration has made it a point to put a gun to their heads about buying the city land for 24 million or else. That is what they have done. Free land-16 acres- for LSC and meg-a-dollars- from the hospital-24 million for 2.5 acres. I simply doesn't make sense. All I can think, is the developers on the LSC board cut a deal with the mayor. The hospital deserves better.

I’m going to play devil’s advocate a little here simply because this is an absurdly simplistic approach, one that Yvonne is also trumpeting.

The hospital didn’t ask for the same land that LSC is asking for. If they had, maybe the city gives that land to them for free. Instead, the hospital is asking for highly valuable land in a highly desirable area. Claiming that these transactions are equal is the work of simple minds.


Are you saying land near Liberty State Park is not valuable? You have the views of the park. A parcel of land was sold recently (not an acre) for $2 million in Bergen Lafayette. Fulop downplayed the value of the 16 acre land. His obligation is to residents and taxpayers, not to the science center. Sell the land and pay down some of the city's debt. Reducing the debt will reduce the budget.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 14:33
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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donnajc65 wrote:
So Josh, why sell land to the medical center for 24 million dollars and give LSC land for free. The hospital is one of the largest employers in the city and perhaps the largest employer of city residents. They are the one institution in the city that we can't do without! They are bursting at the seems and the city knows that. And yet, this administration has made it a point to put a gun to their heads about buying the city land for 24 million or else. That is what they have done. Free land-16 acres- for LSC and meg-a-dollars- from the hospital-24 million for 2.5 acres. I simply doesn't make sense. All I can think, is the developers on the LSC board cut a deal with the mayor. The hospital deserves better.

I’m going to play devil’s advocate a little here simply because this is an absurdly simplistic approach, one that Yvonne is also trumpeting.

The hospital didn’t ask for the same land that LSC is asking for. If they had, maybe the city gives that land to them for free. Instead, the hospital is asking for highly valuable land in a highly desirable area. Claiming that these transactions are equal is the work of simple minds.

Posted on: 2015/1/28 13:47
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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"Other major cities have launched similar sci-tech and education partnerships to increase entrepreneurship and job growth. For example, Cornell NYC Tech, a plan developed by former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, is under construction on Roosevelt Island, through a partnership between Cornell University and the Technion – Israel Institute of Technology."


Citing an incomplete plan as justification is grasping at straws. The Cornell-Technion partnership is at least supported by proven institutions, well-financed, and the result of many years of planning.

The Liberty Science Center plan has none of that. The idea sounds like something out of the Onion, rather than a quality plan to develop tech jobs.

This is an attempt to dress up a land grab and government giveaway to a marginal institution. LSC has not been a great benefit to Jersey City. It is in no sense notable for science, being at best science-y rather than scientific. The name alone (SciTech Scity: really?) says that whoever is behind this has some half-baked ideas.



Posted on: 2015/1/28 4:06
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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So Josh, why sell land to the medical center for 24 million dollars and give LSC land for free. The hospital is one of the largest employers in the city and perhaps the largest employer of city residents. They are the one institution in the city that we can't do without! They are bursting at the seems and the city knows that. And yet, this administration has made it a point to put a gun to their heads about buying the city land for 24 million or else. That is what they have done. Free land-16 acres- for LSC and meg-a-dollars- from the hospital-24 million for 2.5 acres. I simply doesn't make sense. All I can think, is the developers on the LSC board cut a deal with the mayor. The hospital deserves better.

Posted on: 2015/1/27 22:51
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Liberty Science Center would not say they were in Jersey City, just exit 14B in New Jersey. It is the reason the previous council renamed Communipaw near the Science Center to Jersey City Blvd. The city is not on stable financial footing, there is a great deal of debt. Selling the land to pay off debt should be goal of any mayor of JC.

Posted on: 2015/1/26 3:57
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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JPhurst wrote:
There is a difference between approving a loan to an organization that can't meet it's operating expenses, and giving away the land as part of a redevelopment plan that includes significant benefits to city residents beyond the "developers create jobs" mantra.

By all means, one can be skeptical of all of these promises, and question whether the Liberty Science Center can function as a developer (though presumably it will engage actual real estate developers to do much of the work). But to say "a-ha! You opposed making a loan to the LSC! Now you're flip flopping!" is silly.


I suppose, but I think that both of these "gifts" really pissed off a lot of people who pay taxes in Jersey City, including myself. Let's start with the fact that most of the 100 or so Jersey City residents employed by LSC are mostly employed in low-wage, part-time jobs with little or no benefits. LSC is run by a private organization and is not a public institution. It may be a non-profit, but it had close to $26 million in revenues in 2013, charges outrageous ticket prices, has a very expensive café and gift shop, and few, if any of the highly paid leadership live in Jersey City. Does this sound like a place that should get public support to you? Even if it should get public support, why should so much of it fall on Jersey City? Let the state pick up the tab for all the gifts to that place.

Furthermore, even if this supposedly great project is going to create hundreds of new jobs, how many of them will really go to local Jersey City residents who were previously unemployed? I've seen projects like these over and over, both in Jersey City and elsewhere, and the jobs created almost never go to the locals and those that do mostly go to people who have simply switched from another job. The projects do nothing to make a dent in the long-term unemployed. The long-term unemployed in Jersey City may not be LSC's problem, but local taxpayers in Jersey City shouldn't have to subsidize something that will have questionable results for the city.

Posted on: 2015/1/26 3:47
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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The city sold land to the Medical Center, 2.5 acres for $24 million recently. Our city is constantly bonding for operating costs especially terminal leave. We need that money. Fulop is the mayor of JC not Liberty Science Center. He needs to worry about our expenses. Taking the public's MUA money for his budget shows how desperate our city is. We should sell the land, not give it away.

Posted on: 2015/1/26 3:37
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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There is a difference between approving a loan to an organization that can't meet it's operating expenses, and giving away the land as part of a redevelopment plan that includes significant benefits to city residents beyond the "developers create jobs" mantra.

By all means, one can be skeptical of all of these promises, and question whether the Liberty Science Center can function as a developer (though presumably it will engage actual real estate developers to do much of the work). But to say "a-ha! You opposed making a loan to the LSC! Now you're flip flopping!" is silly.

Posted on: 2015/1/26 3:22
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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I agree with you. The reason McNair is successful is not just because the students are the best in Jersey City but also because the parents actually care about education.

Posted on: 2015/1/26 0:08
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Yvonne: St. Peter's prep is only for boys ( and is private catholic) and there are literally thousands of kids vying for that coveted spot at McNair. The rest of the kids have, sadly, few options.

Posted on: 2015/1/25 21:28
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Posted on: 2015/1/25 20:44
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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bodhipooh wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
An earlier poster said the place had improved itself was now paying the current CEO only $63,000 annually as opposed to the $300,000+ that Emlyn Koster made. I couldn't believe that (seemed unusually low so I looked up the organization's tax return and my instincts were correct. Paul Hoffman makes over $ 316,000 a year in base compensation alone, and the place has 8 Vice Presidents earning health six-figure salaries.


I was the one that presented the data about the CEO earning that lowly salary (around 63K) based on data from Charity Navigator, which is usually very accurate. If you have data to the contrary, could you post it here? Did you see a record stating that LSC paid their CEO 316K? Or, did you see a record stating that was his income for the year?? The difference being, of course, that he could have multiple income sources. I am not questioning the veracity of what you stated, but simply asking for clarification, because your numbers are quite different from the ones I found.

In any case, I do think LSC has been improving their offerings. I had visited several times in the past and was always underwhelmed. Each visit was met with broken exhibits, empty spaces, and boring interactive features. After visiting two or three times with my daughter, I felt like it was a rip off and stopped visiting.



Here's their tax return from 2013. See the next to last page, where it lists all the officers' salaries:

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments ... -222302253-0a738167-9.pdf

Posted on: 2015/1/23 23:32
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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caj11 wrote:
An earlier poster said the place had improved itself was now paying the current CEO only $63,000 annually as opposed to the $300,000+ that Emlyn Koster made. I couldn't believe that (seemed unusually low so I looked up the organization's tax return and my instincts were correct. Paul Hoffman makes over $ 316,000 a year in base compensation alone, and the place has 8 Vice Presidents earning health six-figure salaries.


I was the one that presented the data about the CEO earning that lowly salary (around 63K) based on data from Charity Navigator, which is usually very accurate. If you have data to the contrary, could you post it here? Did you see a record stating that LSC paid their CEO 316K? Or, did you see a record stating that was his income for the year?? The difference being, of course, that he could have multiple income sources. I am not questioning the veracity of what you stated, but simply asking for clarification, because your numbers are quite different from the ones I found.

In any case, I do think LSC has been improving their offerings. I had visited several times in the past and was always underwhelmed. Each visit was met with broken exhibits, empty spaces, and boring interactive features. After visiting two or three times with my daughter, I felt like it was a rip off and stopped visiting.


Posted on: 2015/1/23 23:30
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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jcdd wrote:
I really hope that the planned "grade school" becomes a reality. Why not extend it to a high school as well? We certainly need some new high schools in Jersey City. Wouldn't it be cool if they created a math and science magnet school, similar to, say, the Bronx School of Science in NYC?


If this were to happen, I would consider staying in JC. I know many other families have moved to better school districts. Unlike many commentators here, I also saw the nonprofit, education side of this announcement. Here's a quote from Fulop's email:

"Other major cities have launched similar sci-tech and education partnerships to increase entrepreneurship and job growth. For example, Cornell NYC Tech, a plan developed by former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, is under construction on Roosevelt Island, through a partnership between Cornell University and the Technion – Israel Institute of Technology."


We do have some top notch schools in Jersey City and other parts of Hudson County. There is McNair Academic and the Hudson County Voc-tech, both schools have excellent reputations. If you go the private route, there is St. Peter's Prep. Students travel from different parts of NJ and NYC just to attend that school.

Posted on: 2015/1/23 21:48
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Thank You for your post and the time you put into research it. I really don't get it. The mayor made it a point to brag that he "bent the hospital" over to make them pay twice what Healy wanted to charge them, yet he gives this property away to a finacially unstable institution. Well it makes good headlines for him.

Posted on: 2015/1/23 20:42
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Re: Liberty Science Center announces $230 million expansion
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Fomite wrote:
Apparently not everyone thinks science is important.

I would love to see LSC get involved with Liberty Humane Society, it could greatly benefit both. Spark some animal science interest in kids, and bring more volunteers to the shelter. Maybe a young animal educators course to teach about spaying. Even a wildlife center, get the girl and boy scouts involved.

Biology, Ecology, Environmental Sciences, Veterinary Science...a lot of good could come out of this.


It's important, just not important enough to give $20 million in free land to a place that is rather mismanaged and fiscally irresponsible in so many ways, at a time when our city is in a precarious financial state.

An earlier poster said the place had improved itself was now paying the current CEO only $63,000 annually as opposed to the $300,000+ that Emlyn Koster made. I couldn't believe that (seemed unusually low so I looked up the organization's tax return and my instincts were correct. Paul Hoffman makes over $ 316,000 a year in base compensation alone, and the place has 8 Vice Presidents earning health six-figure salaries. Yet they have had no problem laying off the $ 20,000/year people whenever things got tight. Not to mention the $ 160,000+ spent on travel (travel to where? The place is in one building), $ 180,000+ on conferences and using Big-4 accountants KPMG to do their books and tax returns when an organization of that size could easily have them done by a smaller local firm. AND they have a $ 3.35 million interest-free loan from the New Jersey Economic Development Authority which they have not made any payments on in at least two years (brought to you courtesy of all New Jersey taxpayers).

I don't see any improvement in that place whatsoever and our tax dollars and city assets should not be supporting it. Also, doesn't the city council have to vote on this? How can the mayor just give land away like that?

Posted on: 2015/1/23 19:32

Edited by caj11 on 2015/1/23 19:51:38
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